Out of Sight Out of Mind

absolutely all kids criticize their parents or think their parents are off in one way or the other. It comes with the territory. We were placed on this planet to give our kids something to roll their eyes about. Lol I criticize my parents and my kid criticize me and her kids will think she is crazy. It is just how it is

I am sorry to hear about his aloofness. It could be he takes after his father. I can’t say about distancing themselves from over emotional outbursts but it could play a role. I understand distancing at that time like at the time of outburst, but then maybe reconnecting

Could be he had an issue with you being angry or very upset over a ring. I personally have never heard of adults having to call their parents about a ring. In my books it’s strictly between a man and a woman. Zero to do with mom. Most kids would respond with ignoring requests to consult with mom. I don’t think it’s unique to your son. Possible drama over not consulting with you re ring did cause a rift.

But it could be repaired. I routinely say or ask that my daughter does something I don’t think is wise. She doesn’t particularly care that I think it’s unwyse. She does what she wants.

But I think it could be repaired. I wouldn’t blame his fiancée because you don’t know. Sure they possibly talk about you. I talk to my husband about my dad and his crazy demands. But I make my own decisions re relationship with my dad. Is your son very dependent on others? You? Now her? Was he raised a bit overly protected? A lot was given to him? He now finally makes his own decisions? Which might include distance from you?

If he isn’t making steps towards repairing the rift, could you? Like heart to heart? Not emotional but just tell him how you feel? Ask if there is something could be done to change it?

The reason I asked him to call me first, is because I am a gemologist and had a diamond that I was going to give him to trade for whatever center stone they wanted to pick. He was not even going to have to pay for the center stone. Yes, I had a diamond just sitting around! Lol. He could have communicated with me if he chose to not do that, but instead he just ignored me. When we got to their apartment, I noticed an engagement ring on her finger. They didn’t even tell us about it.

There really isn’t a rift with him. He just doesn’t contact us. It really is ‘out of sight out of mind’ with him. It just is what it is. I really didn’t do anything wrong. And I am thrilled I am no longer having the crying problem thanks to a med!

Someone on a FB group that I'm member of recently started a thread about problems with family. So many people responded to that thread from a very small geographical area that I'm beginning to think family problems are as normal as not having problems. There was a lot of psychologising on the thread about "narcissistic" siblings, parents etc - seems to be the new word on the block.

If you have sons who are talking to you.... at all..... I would say that means that you have all done something positive relationally!

TishaBuv, you write often about family letting you down - your siblings and husband and kids. Jeez, I am the last person to comment on that since I've had no immediate family to speak off since a very young age and I am a complete doofus at intimate relationships. It would be lovely for you to have a warm, happy family - both family of origin and current family - but already you have a lot !!! You sound like a restless person wanting to find a new way to use your energies.

For me, telling others that I'm disappointed in them is sometimes about decreasing the loading and intensity of my feelings beforehand so that they can hear me better.
Perhaps with adult children, it can also be a question of consciously building a new relationship with less expectation on either side?

However, my big relief in not having children is not having to deal with my feelings about my in-laws!!! Best of luck with that one!

TishaBuv has left to get a life. Thanks all.

Hey TishaBuv,
I apologise if you read what I wrote in a way that hurt your feelings. It wasn't meant that way at all. I was simply surprised how many people in a small community had huge resentments against their family such that they were not longer in contact at all. It made me appreciate the work that goes into holding together family relationships on both sides, even if the result is less than perfect. You have two sons who are doing well socially and in their studies/ work. You've achieved that through your hard work. I meant to be appreciative of that.
Best wishes your way,
Saidso

Thanks so much for this. People rarely, if ever, go out of their way to care about others’ feelings.

From your post, it resonated with me that I am just pathetic, complaining on here and have no right to. I heard, ‘you are bored and need to get a life’.

Frankly, I know that’s true. I know there is some MH issue with me. I was once diagnosed with MDD. I suppose that’s what I have and why I am too depressed to ‘get a life’.

I’m pretty mortified with myself for posting all my personal details on here, too. It feels like every thread I start, I just get criticized and find myself having to explain and defend myself. Then I get told that I have so much and need to count my blessings and get a life. No offense to well-meaning poster’s honesty. I am smart enough to hear this truth.

I just wanted support for this one subject on this thread regarding my son not calling me, but it went straight to pick apart all my details and tell me to get a life. I’m not angry at anyone. I hear this truth resonate from the people as a whole. So there’s no point in posting anything for me.

Honest to God, Saidso, this kind post from you was more than I got from my whole family! They were intentionally cruel!

A total stranger showed kindness. Thank you.

It's a challenge to learn how to let go when our child gets to that point where they don't require our opinions as much. It sounds like one of your priorities was to be a good mother to your sons. It can definitely feel strange when an older child begins to want more privacy and wants to manage their own money too. The fact that your son wanted to work a job and have money of his own is growth and a good sign. Be glad that he is not doing that for a hidden drug problem.

It definitely is a big adjustment when for so many years you were so involved with a child and all of a sudden that changes. I remember how that felt myself and it's not about "you need a life" either. Instead it's just better to think about this as you having a chance to fill your life with something new.

I'm sorry your one son's distance is hurting you. It seems to me that there is no fault on either side. You are clearly a mother that loves frequent contact with those she loves. He, unlike his brother, likely is a bit more to himself and everything immediately around him. We're all different in this world. I know that many many people are constantly texting others, while others are quiet as if they've fallen off the face of the earth.

My family and I all love each other a great deal, but compared to many other families, we contact each other very little. Here are a few of short stories from the past to the present.

* When I went off to college, I almost never called my parents. My mother called me about once per week to arrange a Saturday or Sunday "lunch together". My college was about 50 mins car drive from my parent's home. My mom loved to have an excuse to get away from my father and enjoy a few hours with me. I enjoyed it, too, but I didn't think about her or anyone else in my family much at all any other time during the week. My dad rarely visited. I did see him on holidays and summer break. No one had any cell phones back in the early 1990s, so there was no texting. I didn't even have a computer during college.

* One summer, my mom was kind enough to pay for a round-trip ticket for me to go to Europe to teach English. That was so kind of her. When I got to my destination in Poland, the program director said we can all call our families from their office phone. I don't even believe I called my parents for the whole entire month. I wasn't thinking about them at all. Actually, I think the only time I did think about them was when my roommate "Joy" received a frantic call from her mother basically saying "You didn't call me this week!" The mother apparently thought Joy might be in some big danger. Meanwhile, my parents were likely not even thinking about me. Does that mean my parents didn't love me as much as Joy's did her? No. That didn't mean I loved my parents less than Joy did hers.

* I moved to CA from NJ with my first love. I don't remember how much I called my mother. I didn't have a cell phone back then either. I did call her occasionally. Maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks? I don't remember.

* I lived in Taiwan for about a year. I didn't call my parents much at all. When I did, I was usually only doing so because of sickness or a major holiday. When I was well, I didn't so much. They figured that if I was dead they'd eventually find out. When I did contact them, if they had wanted more contact I would have made more of an effort. But they focused on their things, and I focused on mine. Believe me that I didn't tell them A LOT! They didn't need to know.

* Unfortunately, my family lost my mother 15 years ago. I love my dad and siblings, but I probably touch base with them by phone once every three weeks or even less. I do email my sister a couple times per week. That's it. I'm not into texting and don't share everything about my life. I love them all, though.

If your son's distance really hurts you, can you ask for a compromise on the contact frequency?

Note: I am a female. I was in my late teens through mid 20s during college through my time in Taiwan. My parents didn't really worry about me, like many parents worry about their children nowadays. Yes, we were different than other people. Yes, it was a different time, though I don't believe it was any more of a dangerous time. I actually appreciated my parents' hands-off approach.

Hi, TishaBuv.

I get what you mean. My parents kind of felt that way about me, but it doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about them.

Also, there's friends of mine that I won't talk to for months, even years. But when I see them again, or reach out to them, they're always happy to hear from me.

With social media and texting being so common, I think it's easy to expect instant, or at least regular, communication from people. Especially those you love. But what usually happens is people get busy and they can't get to everything right now. In other words, don't overthink it! You have better things to occupy your time.

That being said, if you feel ignored or, as they say nowadays, "ghosted" by him, communicate that to him. And I agree with anyone who suggested not giving him more money. If he's old enough to get married, he should be somewhat financially stable. If you feel like you're getting taking advantage of, please tell him.

I didn’t realize that this man, who thinks he is an adult enough to play house and even get married, is financially dependent on his parents. You are paying for his health insurance, car insurance and his phone? Phone?? He can’t pay for his own phone?

He isn’t embarrassed to be supported by his parents all while playing house with a girl? And he doesn’t even bother calling his parents? He bought this girl engagement ring (with what money?) all while living off his parents and not even calling them. The whole story is now in a different light The gravy train had to stop awhile ago. Why is he getting married if he isn’t independent?

I’d be so hurt! His hands are in your pockets but he can’t bother call you. That’s hurtful! I thought the guy is all on his own completely self sufficient and wants to assert his independence. Doesn’t look like he is asserting independence living on your dime. It’s shocking

Thanks for all your comments. I’m sorry I wigged out before. It’s just that I am telling you that there is something wrong and it’s not my fault...believe me!

I looked back at all the text messages I had. It was always me reaching out to him once a week. I understand he’s not into calling home, as most college kids would be. It didn’t even dawn on me it was the case until I am really now sensing real abandonment, as he is a young man, planning his wedding.

They are getting married because his fiancé says her family doesn’t want her ‘living in sin.’ However, they have already been living together for over a year. There are more concerning details to this whole thing, that I would like to disclose, and I hate to seem sketchy, but if my son ever found me on here and saw that I had blabbed about him, I’d look awful and he’d be devastated.

He never had a job before this one he got just after college. Yes, we paid for everything. The wedding is in 5 months, so we’ll stop paying everything by then.

Then there is the matter of his car...another outrageous story...where my husband had to promise him to make the payments on it beyond the amount he and his only gf at the time decided was his budget to spend. She was making him return the car we bought for our 23 y/o son! It was his first car. It was the least expensive new Toyota, with 0% financing, big discount for college grad, big further discount I negotiated. It was an awesome deal on a good car with warranty...new car! She was making him return it the next day!!! She wasn’t even engaged to him yet! So, my h promised to pay the couple hundred monthly payment on it beyond his budget after he reaches his ‘allowance’. It’s all just too crazy!

We are not paying anything for this wedding. We don’t want it to happen...but we haven’t said that to him because it will really alienate him. We have been cordial and agreed to make the rehearsal dinner. Although I have not done anything for that yet... still hoping this won’t really happen.

No...this is not a case that I am an overbearing parent with unrealistic expectations from a child, clinging on to his leg, lol.

Yesterday, I texted that we were going to be driving up there next week and would like to see him. He didn’t respond at all, not even to say he’d check his schedule and get back to us...just no response. There will probably be no response at all. It’s just all too weird.

I asked my h if he thought my encouraging him to keep in touch with his parents was crossing a boundary and he said of course not. He said his parents used to write him letters monthly while at school and he’d call when he got them. (His mom liked formality). Once we got married, they were standoffish about calling. I’m not sure why. I honestly think it was because the call was long distance and they didn’t like paying for the call! I know that sounds crazy, but they were from the depression era and that’s how they thought.

I’m hurt and angry with my son, but I’m also concerned for him.

Yes, the hairs on my neck are raised from his fiancé. I don’t like what I am witnessing of her. My youngest son has a gf, and she’s a nice girl who seems normal and they are happy together. I have no issues with her. It’s not me being a jealous mother.

He says he financed the diamond ring. Evidently, he has really good credit, thanks to a really great mom who helped him establish it!

See, instead of my giving him the value of the center stone for free, he financed the entire ring. So, whatever he paid retail, he will have paid double by the time he pays it off. It didn’t make financial sense to ignore me.

Don’t worry about defending yourself. You’re doing the best you can. Parenting is not easy. You have two kids who you probably raised quite similarly and yet they are both quite different... so even with our best efforts we never know how things will work out with our kids.

I’ve struggled with a relationship with my daughter. When she didn’t call or text... or even return calls or texts very often... this went on for years... I worked hard on my own hobbies and interests. It’s hard...

I’ve tried to focus on my other challenges and struggles and grow as much as I can. My daughter eventually started reaching out. It took time. Part of it was I needed to step back and respect her boundaries... part of it was I needed to expect her to also respect mine.

It’s still a struggle and a work in progress. The relationship is less than ideal. I’m with you in that I feel sad that my adult child is not a close part of my every day life. It’s hard to accept things for what they are but I think it gets easier for us when we do... or at least keep working on it and that’s the best we can do.

Actually, he did have a job before this one...the one at the fast food place he concealed from us. See, I still can’t get it through my head, lol.

When your daughter didn’t respond to your texts, were they texts that required response? Did she eventually respond? Did you need to text her again with the same question?

I know some people feel that texts should be answered immediately and get upset when people don’t. I don’t think that way. But, I think a reasonable amount of time like a day or two at most is definitely an expectation. With an email, I’d say even longer is acceptable.

Why are you supporting grown men? I understand paying tuition if you can afford it but paying for everything? I don’t know anyone who doesn’t work through college even having very wealthy parents. And if kids play house, they support themselves. Such exuberant over the top spoiling possibly contributes to sense of entitlement and arrogance. I can’t wrap my mind around it.

Ring is a non issue. No one wants to propose with diamond provided by mommy. I sure wouldn’t wear the kind of ring. I selected what I liked and what I knew would be suitable for my future husbands finances. If your son can’t afford the ring and is still dependent on you, he shouldn’t be getting married. But not using your ring or ring provided by you is really a non issue. He is not royalty.

I think him not calling you might be just one of the symptoms of a bigger issue.

Why are your kids not required and not even wanting to work through college (not saying full time) like everyone else? Both my nephews worked all through engineering schools (which are tough schools) and my brother is very well off. My daughter worked part time all through undergrad and did grad school on her own while working full time, I am doing fine but am not rich, my ex husband is literally a millionaire, so she wouldn’t have to work if she didn’t want to but why wouldn’t she want to have her own money? I literally know no one who relies on parents for allowances past high school. How can he even date if he doesn’t have a single penny of his own?

Why are you spoiling them so much? I see no point in it, it just creates this standoffish attitude.

I don’t understand why I can’t get through to you about the ring. If your parent was giving you the amount of money you needed for the center stone of the ring, wouldn’t you at least discuss that with them one way or another? That is what this was. I was not imposing any particular stone on them. The stone was to be traded for one of their choice. That is how the jewelry business works sometimes. Instead, he ignored me and spent at least 3x the amount he could have for the same ring. Was I wrong to be so giving to my beloved son? That’s up for debate.

Yes, we are guilty of supporting them through undergrad. They spent so little money beyond college and meal plan. They never even had cars because they didn’t need them. We wanted them to completely focus on their very difficult studies and get A’s. Our engineer son did work in engineering for the college as part of his program and they paid him a little. This son did work at his college as a tutor in his area of study and they paid him a little. We were all for this, as it furthered his career. But then he didn’t follow up on that job and lost it to more ambitious students. He was supposed to do other non-paid jobs to further his career, but he didn’t. Instead, he worked the ff job, keeping it from us, in order to have the independence to get an apartment and a dead end company job in order to please her. I get it. That’s his choice. He’s a grown man. Maybe he’ll love his life and I hope he does. He did it in a shady way, concealing it from us rather than including us in his choices. I’m sure this was because he knew we would try to talk him out of it and back on the path of a successful career including grad school. He’s very smart, and I am sure he will rise to the top no matter what path he chooses.

And yes, I am very grateful he is doing as well as he is and not a drug addict risking his very life. If that were the case, I’d deal with that in any way I could help.

You may be right about the jobs though, Divine. Our youngest son could get a part time job while still in high school. He’s struggling in his core subjects because he isn’t putting in enough study time. I could encourage him to be a grocery clerk and accept those low grades.

She blew off my calls and texts for years. Finally I just didn’t ever ask her any questions anymore and never expected a response. I would send a text telling her I loved her and that I hoped she was having a good day... stuff like that. No questions and no expectations. That’s still my rule in all my communication with her. I don’t ask her questions and I have no expectations.

That’s very unusual behavior on her part. There must have been some issue; either she was angry at you or she was too ashamed of herself to respond— I can only conjecture.

You make a good point though, about having no expectations. Maybe the questions you asked felt judgmental to her.

I haven’t even been judgmental with him, although I don’t like what I am seeing. Maybe he knows I am judgmental without my even saying it.

My h texted our son saying he hadn’t responded to me and we wanted to see him on that day if he was free. He texted me back that he saw me text but didn’t read it and he was sorry. This means to me that he was very distracted and didn’t care enough to read the text that had content. It was only two sentences which included a date and started with the words, “We are coming...”

So, I don’t think it is anger on his part or intentional slight. It was just that he did not care enough to read my text.

I thought I had acted supportive of his getting the job. I told him maybe he could work his way up through the company and may not even need grad school, or maybe they would send him to grad school (some companies do). I didn’t bad mouth his fiancé to him at all (I know better).

But I just came to a plan; I’ll ask and expect nothing from him, I’ll only give to him what I want to give to him, and I’ll act like everything he does is great. We’ll all get along just fine.

You seem to have very black and white “either or” thinking on the matter. Are these the only alternatives?

You either support your children financially or they become drug addicts and risk their lives? How so? I don’t get this alternative. Of course we are glad if our kids aren’t drug addicts, it’s kind of a given

Another black and white alternative: they either don’t work and have good grades or they work and have bad grades. It seems very drastic. If they truly can’t have good grades and work even few part time hours a week in undergrad (not talking medical school here), most certainly they shouldn’t work. Why such extremes. But I’d also look into if they are in the right program. If working few hours a week is causing bad grades, something needs to be looked at? Do they take too many classes or need tutoring?

If they have no time to work though and need to study a lot, it’s understandable but then they shouldn’t date either. It’s time consuming and it’s not a requirement. Perhaps dating causing bad grades more than other stuff?

You don’t have to convince me about ring, I am not the one having an issue with it. If you feel he had to use your diamond, then it’s fine. But if he is a grown man with his own life he and his future wife could do whatever they want about getting a ring or no ring or two rings. If he isn’t seen by you as a grown man, then I can see how it’s upsetting he doesn’t do things your way. But being upset didn’t accomplish anything, you had a meltdown, he knew it. He knows you dislike his bride (going by what you shared before). Perhaps it causes distance now. Maybe it could be mended or maybe he just needs space for now.

Sometimes we have to give up control and let kids go if you still want a relationship with them. They might choose wrong partners (or the ones we think as wrong). They might marry out of faith (which likely is one of your issues with your son), they might have a wedding not to your liking. And they know when you object. But you got to give up. It’s not always easy. But what’s the alternative? Not having relationship with them or having it so limited? I am not saying we have to put up with abuse from kids, of course not but their choice of partners and life style is not really our business. Not in 2019.

Divine, It’s really hard with these forums where a lot gets misunderstood and lost in translation. My comment about him not being a drug addict wAs in response to someone who made a comment about that earlier on this thread.

I think I’ve got this issue under control now.

Thanks for always being there to listen! Hugs

Many of the criticisms I received on this thread, which were not even related to the subject, have made me feel truly disheartened. I just thought I’d be honest about how hurtful and disrespectful this felt.

((((((((((( TishaBuv ))))))))))