Do you think...

that some mentally ill people should not pursue intimate relationships?

Would you consider it irresponsible, since it is most likely to cause others pain?

my opinion is everyone should give and receive love .... mental illness should not make any difference, in a loving relationship there should be support ..... if you are staring a relationship be honest .... everyone imho needs to be loved and to give love, we are after all human beings and deserving of both....

(((((altered state))))))

Jin xxxxx

Altered,

IMHO I think we all should pursue some type of relationships regardless of our mental state. We just need to understand that at times within our relationships that there will be hard times. Relationships takes constant work and change therefore regardless of our mental state we need to adapt to the enviroment . Once again this is my opinion .... I hold great faith in relationships that all people are different from each other dictated by different experiences . I hop this helps


David

im curious as to why that would cause others pain?

i know some people who think that aids patients should be quarentined and never allowed to have a relationship. seems a little inhumane to me. i just wonder if these people would be saying that if they were the ones with aids.

I wouldn't worry so much about the pain for others but the distraction another relationship can cause. If it's worth it then the other person will wait till your mentally and emotionally prepared to take on something so serious.

I've wonder about this too. From my own experience I've come out thinking its a matter of finding the balance that works. I spent most of my life single. Hooked up in my late 30's with the father of my only son. We stayed together for 14 years before my illness made it too difficult.

My preference would be to maintain a committed monogomous relationship with a man without living together full time. Maintaining separate residences so that I can have the space and independance I need. Besides that I don't really know how to have a relationship with a man without falling into the routine of chief cook and bottle washer. Don't want to be anyone's chore girl anymore. And besides that the emotional strain of someone else's presence day in and day out would overwhelm me. It's enough to cope with my son whome I adore around all the time, can't imagine being up for having a man around the house full time.

after 33 years of marriage to the same man, YES it is very responsible and worth every up and down ride on the roller coaster , I have seen more ppl without mental dx hurting others in marriage, both hubby and myself have several dx's and we're best friends too

Chocolatelover said, "My preference would be to maintain a committed monogomous relationship with a man without living together full time. Maintaining separate residences so that I can have the space and independance I need. Besides that I don't really know how to have a relationship with a man without falling into the routine of chief cook and bottle washer. Don't want to be anyone's chore girl anymore. And besides that the emotional strain of someone else's presence day in and day out would overwhelm me. It's enough to cope with my son whome I adore around all the time, can't imagine being up for having a man around the house full time. "

OH MY!!! You have voiced my feelings completely, and so much better than I could have said!
Patty

works for me.... in theory.... haven't tried it myself in real life. Think I might be too clingy and possessive to really pull it off but it makes sense to me for sure.

My son's dad spends a lot of time here and we function as a family during those times but we don't have an intimate relationship anymore so its more like having family visits. Even there I have to watch myself. Make it too comfortable for him to hang out, get fed, get his laundry and mending done and his visits go on for days and days at a time. I try to balance the game with a list of chores for him to do while hanging with us. He contributes his share of household expenses and is a good dad so its almost a perfect arrangement. Of course should either of us venture into dating or mating it would upset the apple cart but for now it works.

Good to meet you Patty.... my name is Patti too!!

Unfortunately, all I have to offer at this point is my skills as a housekeeper, and I really don't mind that. I take alot of pride in making/keeping a nice home, and I have a pretty good eye for decorating and I can do it on the cheap, too!

I also think these skills have real value. It's just too bad that most people do not see it that way any longer. Money, or the ability to make money is the only standard to which a partner's worth is valued at today, especially when it comes to second, third or fourth marriages.

I am in a different space at this point in my life. I am tired of being a fly-by-night f*** for my boyfriends (although it did work well when I had a career because that was the only thing I had that meant something). But, it never felt "right" and did little for my self-esteem, nor theirs, I suppose, because I could never really give my trust to them completely. Eventually, all the "love" just faded away. There was just no foundation there to build upon.

I really used to believe that a commitment, like marriage, made no difference, but I was in denial about how I truly felt, most likely out of fear. But, in all honesty, it does matter, and I cannot continue to deny these feelings. The more I try to for the sake of my relationships, the sicker I get.

I haven't even come close to having a relationship strong enough to take to the alter, and I am so tired of being left in the wake of men who are, consciously or unconsciously, looking for something better, or who are afraid to commit because of bad experiences.

What kills my spirit the most, is how they refuse to be upfront about how they feel in the beginning. I guess they are just afraid of losing an opportunity for getting some tail.

I know it is easy as pie to get a divorce nowadays, and some people go through partners like worn-out underwear, but loyalty and commitment still have their original meaning and intent to me - they always have - I just chose to ignore it for way too long and for fear of losing a mate.

And now that I have discovered this about myself, I am stuck with a choice of men, in a certain age group, who have been through the ringer a time or two and who refuse to make any commitment of any kind (not that I can blame them, if indeed, they did get screwed over as badly as they say).

If I wanted to, I could go back and demand that I receive half of 3 exes pensions because we had lived together for more than one year. I, in good conscious, cannot do this, for it would not be fair for the women that they eventually settled down with and had children with. It would be a completely dishonourable and selfish thing to do, in my opinion.

It's just too sad to think that I haven't been able to find anyone who can see past my illness, look at me for my strengths and accept me as being of value, rather than as a liability or potential future liability.

I wonder if I will ever be in step with society. At first it was my willingness to "live in sin" that was out of step, and now it is because I am not willing to live like that, that is out of step.

Please, if it can get any worse than this, can someone warn me?

I know this is rather long-winded and I am still trying to put things back into a logical stream of consciousness, so please forgive if it doesn't make sense.

I am also really tired of editing this again...

AlteredState,

I think it's wonderful that you've come to terms with what you want in life. That's outstanding! I could be wrong, but there seemed to be some sort of an undertone that you have to settle. You don't have to settle. It's a cliche but you have really got to value yourself before anyone else will. I find it extremely hard to believe the only skills you have to offer are housekeeper and decorator, not that those skills should be scoffed at in any way, shape or form! I don't have them, and I'm jealous of those people that can do it so easily.

But there is so much more to you as a PERSON. Appreciate that, and respect it!

I'm not man bashing here, but I'd have to say, the majority of the problem seems to be the men that you have been dealing with.

I know a lot of really decent, attractive men and women, all of whom say they cannot find a partner, but they are not attracted to each other and I cannot figure it out for the life of me.

I attempted to set two of them up, they had a lot of the same interests, but there was no chemistry between the two of them. I don't get it. She wound up marrying a jerk that treats her like %#@&#! (again, her second marriage) and he's dating a woman that is more interested in his bank account than him. When I asked each the reason why it never worked out (years later) I got the same answer from both of them. "He/she's out of my league, it wouldn't have worked out." hmmm

It seems to me that this is a very individual question, and really cannot be answered generally. I would have to punt, and say that it depends upon the disorder, the degree of that disorder, and whether or not the person experiencing it feels capable of entering into an intimate relationship. All of those things. So, sometimes "yes," sometimes "no," and sometimes, "maybe."

It just all depends upon exactly what's going on, and how it's being dealt with, in my opinion.

Should one who's suffering a disorder choose to pursue an intimate relationship, however, I think that full disclosure is extremely important. By, say, the third date, or before sleeping together, whichever comes first. This is when I would prefer to know if I were the other party.

Edited to add, AlteredState01, we haven't even met, and I can see that you have a lot more to offer than housekeeping skills. You are smart, insightful, compassionate, literate, and aware. These are (I regret to say) not everyday qualities - and that's just what I can see from your on-line posts. I'm sure there's a lot more to you in person, as well. I'm not devaluing housecaring skills, either - I wish mine were better!

I'm just saying, if it's so clear to me, a stranger really, that there's a lot more to you, then I think those great qualities, and more, will be at least equally clear to anyone who knows you in person. Evidently that just hasn't occurred yet, romantically. That doesn't mean it won't.

Alteredstates....You have expressed my feelings and experiences completely, and, like Chocolatelover, better than I can do at this point. I have had the same experiences, and I do now regret that I was so willing to bond with men who apparently didn't value me, or the companionship I offered in the 10 years since my divorce. I divorced at age 47, and during that time I too have met men who have been thru the "wringer" a few times around and are bitter and stingy....also the sociopathic users, stalkers, and con artists. This has not made me hate men, but at this point in my life it seems better to focus on self-care. Also, I've come to the point of not wanting a male presence in my space 24/7!
Love
Patty

There is much to contemplate here. Thank you.

For the record, I didn't quite mean that the ONLY thing I had to offer someone was my ability to be "chief cook and bottle-washer," as chocolatelover so eloquently put it, but I did mean it in the sense of contributing "physically" to the household. Physically, meaning to include the financial aspect of a contribution as well as a literal physical relief.

Having someone take care of their daily personal needs, frees them up to, say, work more towards their/our goals, or allows them to relax so as not to send themselves to an early grave. A great deal of relief must come from this, does it not?

Instead of having 2 full-time jobs for one person - one at the "office," and the other at home, the shared responsibility of one taking on one role as financial provider, and the other taking on the role as "homemaker."

The post was not meant to discuss the "intellectual" aspects of the relationship, only the physical.

Does this make sense? I can't quite figure out how to express this properly.

The problem is, I believe my b/f(?) does not see the value in the physical services (of running his household) that I provide him. I think he would rather have an extra paycheck.

And for the record, he does NOT support me. I have a pension, so it is not as if he is in any way being strained financially because I am there. He might not like having to pay for some of the extras, but he would certainly have to pay a hellofalot more, if he had to take me out on "real" dates. Know what I mean?

Hmmm, well, I was married to a man for 20 years, and during the time I was at home caring for our daughter when she was small, he didn't value my presence much. I did all the housework, and had no financial freedom. At that time, I knew many stay-at-home mothers like myself who had credit cards, freedom with the checkbook, etc., but not me! It made me determined to have my own money. I went back to school (since my Art degree was pretty much worthless in rural VA), and got my teaching certificate. Once I started teaching, I set up my own checking account and had my own money! He resented this, but he also treated me with more respect, just because I was earning!
Certainly, not all men feel this way, and there IS value in staying in the home and keeping a smooth ship running, thus, freeing the man to relax a bit and pursue his career and interests, but not all men feel this way....
My sister doesn't work, hasn't for many years, and spends money like water! redecorating her house annually, giving me her castoffs! I continue to be amazed at this.
Patty