[Have Hope]

This may be long, so please bare with me.

My husband is a complex person. He has ADHD and learning disability issues. He has dealt with and deals with depression and anxiety. He has been on a number of meds in the past for treatment, but he treats his mental health issues today with marijuana. I do not protest, as it seems to really help and mellows him out. I am not against using marijuana, as long as it doesn't interfere with one's functioning in life.

He is loving and affectionate most of the time. However, he does have explosive anger issues, and he does exhibit and exercise abusive tactics when he explodes on me. I am fully aware of a multitude of abuse tactics, having been abused by many partners in the past, so I can easily identify the tactics and know that it's abusive.

Around our wedding time it was really bad, and I was thinking that I would have to leave him and quickly - despite just having been married. He was exploding on me frequently, and silently, I was planning my exit, which was going to take a while to accomplish.

Along the way, I have put my foot down every time this has occurred. I have drawn lines and boundaries. I have walked away. I have even driven away in my car. I have confronted him on every single occurrence where I feel he is exhibiting abuse tactics.

Things then improved for 6 months. It wasn't entirely smooth sailing during those 6 months, but I was no longer dealing with explosions and overt abuse tactics. I thought it was much better. And I got comfortable and happy again. I was hopeful.

The other morning it happened again, seemingly out of the blue, and after this nice respite for 6 months. He exploded on me over a HAIRBRUSH, of all things. Very minor, and a simple question I asked him set him off. No fault of mine, I know. He exploded. And we fought -- it got ugly. And once again, he pulled out the verbal and emotional/psychological abuse tactics.

Now once again, I am thinking of an exit plan. And our wedding anniversary is in a matter of days. I do not feel loving feelings towards him right now -- quite the opposite. I am viewing him as someone else - someone different than the loving person I've seen in the last six months - someone I don't even want to know or love.

I decided that IF this happens even just ONE MORE TIME, that I am giving him an ultimatum -- or rather, I will inform him that it's the LAST TIME he explodes on me, that he has a problem, and if he doesn't own up to it and get professional counseling, that I am leaving him and he will be facing yet another divorce. He was married once before.

I have put my foot down too many times. I did around our wedding and I told him this behavior is unacceptable behavior - I told him multiple times that I will NOT tolerate it. I sense that's why he was so good for those six months.

I also know him well enough to know that this happened the other morning in part because of mounting stress - the pandemic, his work stress, and his father is in the hospital once again with pneumonia. Stress, however, does not excuse his behavior.

And I know I will not tolerate this for years to come. No freaking way. I believe in being happy in life. I believe in having a healthy relationship dynamic. And if this toxic behavior is going to keep rearing its ugly head - even periodically - I am not dealing with it. I'd rather deal with loneliness and depression than his explosions and abuse. Though it would be really tough - and of course, I have some conflicted feelings. When things are good, they're truly great, and I feel very loving towards him, and very comfortable around him.

So I am now bracing myself and preparing myself emotionally for a potential exit. And I am putting on a big facade right now, which I do not like doing, but it's how I cope and manage. Our anniversary is around the corner. and I am going to put on a facade, in knowing that I have an ultimatum coming.

And a part of me feels somewhat hypocritical because I frequently tell women on here in similar situations to leave the abuse. And I do get it. It's not always so black and white and sometimes it's complicated, especially if there is love between you. But there comes a time, in ANY situation, where a line must be drawn. And I am drawing mine right now.

Love to me does not also include hatred and/or abuse. And that's what I get from him in these explosive episodes, is his hatred. He treats me in those moments as though he truly hates me. And I will not put up with that.

If you're going to comment, please, please go easy on me. Not looking for constructive criticism -- only supportive replies. And I am not leaving him now. I have my plan of action though and I may have to leave him. So I must prepare myself for this possibility. It's truly an awful position to be in.

Oh, and he won't go to couples or individual therapy right now -- so that type of suggestion is not needed. He doesn't even think he has a problem. Only if I threaten and follow through with divorce papers, where he feels he may truly lose me, do I believe he may actually go to therapy. And that's a BIG MAYBE. And at that point, I may not even care. I do not know.

I've already prepared the grounds for this ultimatum by telling him, "this cannot happen again. If it does, we are going to have a problem".

[Bill3]

[divine1966]

I am sorry Hope. I know you saw a therapist before (strictly for yourself), do you see anyone now? Obviously not face to face. If you don’t, will you see someone when pandemics is over?

[Have Hope]

Thanks, Divine! I quit with the one therapist I was seeing for two plus years several months go. I just started therapy with a new one, just prior to the pandemic, so we've had only 1 session, then nothing more. I am relying on the employee assistance counseling program at work, but that's really meant for work related issues. I am going to contact my health organization to see if I can arrange a telephone session with my new therapist, but I don't know if they are offering that. It sucks, because I really use a professional's help right now, and it's very difficult without.

[divine1966]

I believe therapists do virtual sessions and phone conversations. My husband has phone sessions every Monday. But that’s his therapist he knew for awhile. I’d definitely ask. I’d also ask your health providers if anything is different during covid. Our insurance covers everything related to mental health with no deductible needed to be met and no co pay for the duration of coronavirus

I hope you can get that help

[Have Hope]

Thanks, I will check when I can - I think I may really need it right now.

[AzulOscuro]

Only to support you and tell you that I’m with you when you give him the ultimatum that he seems to ask for with the top of his lungs.
You are perfectly conscious that he has to fix his behaviour. Many times, a person only are able to see something is going wrong when a loved one wakes him up and make him see it very clearly. He can manage these outbursts but he needs to be conscious of how damage they produce.

Good luck and be strong, it might worth.

[Have Hope]

You said the magic words: he needs to be conscious of how much damage he causes.

Right now, I want to be distant from him, and I am feeling very depressed today as a direct result of his explosion the other day.

[AzulOscuro]

I know it. I can guess you are feeling low. And that you feel light years from him just now. But, you are gonna get it.
Tell me the name of a person who is perfect in this world. Noone.
Your husband can realised it. I believe in the ability people have to change. I’m positive about that.

The important thing is that you get to establish a communication with him and you see he’s not all closed to that possibility. This is a first step.

[AzulOscuro]

I’m always thinking in the first place on you, of course. Your safety, your freedom, your well-being is gonna be always on the first place and that is how it has to be.
We must all be a little “ selfish” in this sense but we don’t have to renounce to people who are important for us. It’s marvellous we can try to give them a hand.

[Have Hope]

Thanks, Azul. He is not easy to talk to about this because he gets defensive and doesn't think he has a problem - he then turns it all around on me, claiming I have anger issues and start all of our fights. He won't take much responsibility for his behaviors, and instead blames me. So I cannot fix it myself. He needs therapy, and only an ultimatum will force him into therapy, IF he really does not want to lose me. Which he claims he does not.

[TishaBuv]

This is much worse of a story that happened to me than I’m saying here because I just want to make one point about it.

I was beginning to have a relationship with a man. He told me he has ‘kind of a potty mouth’. I didn’t think much of that (should have seen that red flag). Soon after he went off on me, calling me every name including the C word. I told him that rant was unacceptable. No one talks to me like that. He said, “You’re a big girl. You can take it.” I told him “I won’t take it and you are done.”

That was a deal breaker from the first incident.

Now, I assume your husband’s abusive rants are not peppered with as choice words as I had hurled at me, or you probably would have bolted the first time.

He must have been harsh, but not so much that you are thinking you can change him.

If he wants to keep you, he can change. You will have to clearly communicate and stick to your guns. What is unacceptable is truly unacceptable. If you back down, he won’t stop.

[AzulOscuro]

I understand you. He’s defensive. Even after a time later the argument? Or he changes someway his mind?
I tell you because my partner, his first reaction is becoming defensive but after a time, he seems to understand my position a little better.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

This is much worse of a story that happened to me than I’m saying here because I just want to make one point about it.

I was beginning to have a relationship with a man. He told me he has ‘kind of a potty mouth’. I didn’t think much of that (should have seen that red flag). Soon after he went off on me, calling me every name including the C word. I told him that rant was unacceptable. No one talks to me like that. He said, “You’re a big girl. You can take it.” I told him “I won’t take it and you are done.”

That was a deal breaker from the first incident.

Now, I assume your husband’s abusive rants are not peppered with as choice words as I had hurled at me, or you probably would have bolted the first time.

He must have been harsh, but not so much that you are thinking you can change him.

If he wants to keep you, he can change. You will have to clearly communicate and stick to your guns. What is unacceptable is truly unacceptable. If you back down, he won’t stop.

Thanks, Tisha.

He's said some harsh words, but not the C word. But like I said above, when we first got married, after several of these incidents repeated themselves, I was planning on leaving. Then things improved.

And now, it's come to the next step, which is me saying I am out the door.

I will stick to my guns, though I know it's going to be really really hard on me to give him an ultimatum and to be strong enough to really mean it when I say I will leave him. I know it's going to take a lot of strength and personal fortitude. But I won't cave.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by AzulOscuro

I understand you. He’s defensive. Even after a time later the argument? Or he changes someway his mind?
I tell you because my partner, his first reaction is becoming defensive but after a time, he seems to understand my position a little better.

He did admit fault right after this last incident and apologized. But he will not own up to having a rage and anger problem. I know if I approach that subject and tell him he has a problem, he will become defensive and will start an argument with me. He can be very difficult to deal with sometimes.

And I know in my heart that I cannot work with a person who is so defensive and who ultimately cannot take ownership of their behavior. It's doomed to fail if he cannot.

[MsLady]

I think what may work is if he has a pre-planned course of action of how to manage his stress so he's not resorting to what he knows how to be. Maybe come up with a code word when you're noticing symptoms before an escalation until he's able to do so for himself. When he's stressed (and there's a lot of stress lately for all of us) maybe give him more release time to cope (walks, music, tokes, etc)? Hold the fort down until he's back at baseline.. then take your own break, somehow.

I think it's helpful to have a visual list of triggers to help him keep himself in-check with.. it'll stick to his brain better.. teach him a little bit about himself.. and understand where some of it is coming from. I'd even put this course of action onto paper or cell app? It'll give him accountability and maybe he'll notice how supportive you are to him and this marriage.

You're a good person and a good wife, and I enjoy reading your responses. I hope things will improve for you.. with or without him.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by MsLady

I think what may work is if he has a pre-planned course of action of how to manage his stress so he's not resorting to what he knows how to be. Maybe come up with a code word when you're noticing symptoms before an escalation until he's able to do so for himself. When he's stressed (and there's a lot of stress lately for all of us) maybe give him more release time to cope (walks, music, tokes, etc)? Hold the fort down until he's back at baseline.. then take your own break, somehow.

I think it's helpful to have a visual list of triggers to help him keep himself in-check with.. it'll stick to his brain better.. teach him a little bit about himself.. and understand where some of it is coming from. I'd even put this course of action onto paper or cell app? It'll give him accountability and maybe he'll notice how supportive you are to him and this marriage.

You're a good person and a good wife, and I enjoy reading your responses. I hope things will improve for you.. with or without him.

Thank you for your kind words! I really appreciate it. I do try to be both a good person AND a good wife.

And thank you for trying to help!!! A problem with the approach you're suggesting is that these explosions are entirely random and unpredictable. They happen out of nowhere, and in response to something really silly and minor. So I cannot prepare ahead of time for these instances. I can only respond when they occur. And usually, my first knee jerk reaction is anger and outrage.

[divine1966]

It might not work or make him angrier but what if you recorded how he acts and let him see it? Or hear it? Would he consider its appropriate behavior if he actually watched or heard himself? Could be an eye opening

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by divine1966

It might not work or make him angrier but what if you recorded how he acts and let him see it? Or hear it? Would he consider its appropriate behavior if he actually watched or heard himself? Could be an eye opening

A girlfriend IRL also suggested I do the same!!!! lol. I was actually thinking I SHOULD, because then he cannot accuse ME of starting things, when he's becoming explosive. A great suggestion! I may do it. But I would have to react fast, be able to grab my phone and hit record very quickly.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by divine1966

It might not work or make him angrier but what if you recorded how he acts and let him see it? Or hear it? Would he consider its appropriate behavior if he actually watched or heard himself? Could be an eye opening

I wouldn't recommend this. It's humiliating and he'll more likely react then learn anything.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by MsLady

I wouldn't recommend this. It's humiliating and he'll more likely react then learn anything.

Could be. I didn’t suggest recording secretly though.

I once heard my voice mail left to my daughter that I thought was just me being irritated and giving directions. Boy, I sounded insane. I still remember what I was saying but I clearly wasn’t even aware that I was screaming in total frenzy. My daughter had a good laugh with it. We still laugh about it 20 years later. It helped to hear how awful I sounded. Sometimes we might not know how we come across especially if he doesn’t even think he acts bad

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Could be. I didn’t suggest recording secretly though.

Well I guess one can ask for permission ahead of time and then audio record secretly in the present? If not, I can see how it would be viewed as a shaming strategy.

I did this once with my son when he was having a meltdown.. just so he could see and understand what I was seeing and feeling. I regretted it.. big time. He was always remorseful over his behaviours, afterwards, and the recording just made himself feel even worse about himself.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by MsLady

Well I guess one can ask for permission ahead of time and then audio record secretly in the present? If not, I can see how it would be viewed as a shaming strategy.

I did this once with my son when he was having a meltdown.. just so he could see and understand what I was seeing and feeling. I regretted it.. big time. He was always remorseful over his behaviours, afterwards, and the recording just made himself feel even worse about himself.

I don’t think it needs to be secret. Just tell a person i need you to hear how you sound. I am just making suggestions. I don’t know what needs to be done because I don’t know how things work between them. If I acted belligerent towards my husband but wanted to change my behaviors, maybe I’d agree to being recorded. Desperate times call for desperate measures. If he wants to improve he might have to agree to things

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I don’t think it needs to be secret. Just tell a person i need you to hear how you sound. I am just making suggestions. I don’t know what needs to be done because I don’t know how things work between them. If I acted belligerent towards my husband but wanted to change my behaviors, maybe I’d agree to being recorded. Desperate times call for desperate measures. If he wants to improve he might have to agree to things

I understand. For the OP, when he's in escalation, it will further push him over the edge if you start recording.. and likely unsafe. In that moment, he's irrational and out of control. If he were to agree to this ahead of time, it's important to be very discrete during the recording and then play it back once he's at baseline and willing to hear it. Just be careful, is all.

[Have Hope]

Thank you, all. It is true that in the moment, it could make him escalate more. Most likely it would. I think I would be discreet if I did do this. It would be good for me to be able to show him that he starts these fights. He blames me for starting things, when he's the one yelling.