[DarkDevil26]

Hello, so I find I struggle with establishing relationships with girls, I have never been in a romantic relationship before, have never had my first kiss, and I'm 22 almost 23. I feel I'm missing out on something and it just hurts. But when I think about it, I don't really know how to go about it. I've tried dating apps like tinder but with no results, and given the pandemic theres not really other options. I feel my profile could use work but overall, I just feel I'm too unattractive for tinder and lack the self esteem to post pictures. How have you guys gone about finding romantic partners? How do you approach people you are interested in? I just find I'm so inexperienced in this area of life and it just hurts more and more every day because I crave to be loved and intimacy. Thanks for any and all advice!

[bpcyclist]

Hey, DD, don't fret--there is someone out there for everyone. What are your hobbies and interests? What do you like to do?

[DarkDevil26]

I like to make youtube gaming videos and stream. I find in gaming its hard to find girls I’m interested in, i find theres not much else to be honest. I really want to expand my horizons but given COVID, I really can’t do that right now.

[nicoleflynn]

At age 70...I have the same problem; been on dating sites; the caliber of man I am looking for....not found, but I wont give up. If you have hobbies; joining a group is a good place to meet someone with your interests.

[DarkDevil26]

I find that I’m not the caliber of a guy in many girls’ eyes too sadly. It just feels so hopeless. I feel unwanted and unloved, I feel no girl would ever want me given how I’m overweight, and unattractive.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by DarkDevil26

I find that I’m not the caliber of a guy in many girls’ eyes too sadly. It just feels so hopeless. I feel unwanted and unloved, I feel no girl would ever want me given how I’m overweight, and unattractive.

I'm wondering if you exclude overweight women in your search for a date? Sometimes men (and of course women, too) get stuck in a rut about what they think their 'type' is. Thinking that only one type will do, can cut you off to the wonderful possibilities to be had in getting to know others who are not cookie cutter matches to your ideal. There are a lot of young women interested in gaming, so I am surprised you cannot find someone through some aspect of that?

The best thing a young man (or a young woman--or old ones, for that matter) can do is be honest. Be honest about your weight, your interests, your hopes and dreams for the future. There are a lot of lovely young women out there. Keep trying.

[DarkDevil26]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

I'm wondering if you exclude overweight women in your search for a date? Sometimes men (and of course women, too) get stuck in a rut about what they think their 'type' is. Thinking that only one type will do, can cut you off to the wonderful possibilities to be had in getting to know others who are not cookie cutter matches to your ideal. There are a lot of young women interested in gaming, so I am surprised you cannot find someone through some aspect of that?

The best thing a young man (or a young woman--or old ones, for that matter) can do is be honest. Be honest about your weight, your interests, your hopes and dreams for the future. There are a lot of lovely young women out there. Keep trying.

I tried finding girls through gaming, that hasn't worked for me either, I even tried joining a club on campus for gaming, and I got nothing. No friends, no nothing.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by DarkDevil26

I tried finding girls through gaming, that hasn't worked for me either, I even tried joining a club on campus for gaming, and I got nothing. No friends, no nothing.

You are not providing enough information for me to give you more than general suggestions. You said you tried joining a club on campus...and? The club didn't meet? The people were rude? There were no women?

How about this--explore other clubs that interest you with an eye for them also being attractive to women. What about physical activities? Dancing? Singing? Films? Cooking? Service projects?

Are you greeting people and talking to people when you are in group situations? You will have to put yourself out there. I am in a group; I have not met a love match but I have made friends, and I did that by showing up, paying attention to what other people were saying, what their interests were, expressing my interest and asking them to elaborate on theirs and being pleasant and agreeable. <---people like that. I hope for the best for you. Keep trying.

[DarkDevil26]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

You are not providing enough information for me to give you more than general suggestions. You said you tried joining a club on campus...and? The club didn't meet? The people were rude? There were no women?

How about this--explore other clubs that interest you with an eye for them also being attractive to women. What about physical activities? Dancing? Singing? Films? Cooking? Service projects?

Are you greeting people and talking to people when you are in group situations? You will have to put yourself out there. I am in a group; I have not met a love match but I have made friends, and I did that by showing up, paying attention to what other people were saying, what their interests were, expressing my interest and asking them to elaborate on theirs and being pleasant and agreeable. <---people like that. I hope for the best for you. Keep trying.

The club(s) met I just felt I couldn’t really fit in. I tried talking to people but it was just awkward and I didn’t really make any friends in the few weeks I went. I didn’t feel I fit in with the group. I would often keep to myself and just not talk to anyone because I was just too scared to really do anything about it. I couldn’t find common ground for topics to talk about. You’d think that I would because its a club where people share common interests. Nope, didn’t turn out to be the case.

Women weren’t even my priority, I just couldn’t make any connections, and because I felt so awkward and out of place, I just stopped going. I gave up. Because it was mentally straining to go and just sit there quietly because I was too anxious. Even when I go out with friends now I shut down and don’t really talk to anyone because I just can’t relate to people and I’m not confident in my ability to socialize. I guess thats a really deep self esteem issue. In the end, I have zero self esteem, zero self confidence, and I hate myself in almost every regard. So yeah I guess thats whats stopping me.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by DarkDevil26

The club(s) met I just felt I couldn’t really fit in. I tried talking to people but it was just awkward and I didn’t really make any friends in the few weeks I went. I didn’t feel I fit in with the group. I would often keep to myself and just not talk to anyone because I was just too scared to really do anything about it. I couldn’t find common ground for topics to talk about. You’d think that I would because its a club where people share common interests. Nope, didn’t turn out to be the case.

Women weren’t even my priority, I just couldn’t make any connections, and because I felt so awkward and out of place, I just stopped going. I gave up. Because it was mentally straining to go and just sit there quietly because I was too anxious. Even when I go out with friends now I shut down and don’t really talk to anyone because I just can’t relate to people and I’m not confident in my ability to socialize. I guess thats a really deep self esteem issue. In the end, I have zero self esteem, zero self confidence, and I hate myself in almost every regard. So yeah I guess thats whats stopping me.

Thank you for sharing that with me. You offered deep insight. You've clearly thought about what the problem is and that really is half the battle. It could have been that particular gaming group wasn't the right fit for you interest-wise, but you also realize that part of it was you didn't talk to anyone.

I wonder if this will help you? When I was in school I used to die a thousand deaths during presentations. One day I asked this young woman next to me something (I had not heard what was said) and she replied, "I don't know; I wasn't listening; I am too worried about getting up there myself." What was interesting was how pretty she was, how put together --how she always seemed to have the right answer. (I realized later that when she volunteered to answer <--it was because she knew she had the right answer. Call me slow on the uptake.)

That day I decided 'what the heck--I'm going to enjoy myself' and I went up and gave my presentation looking at people in the eye, smiling at them, asking questions of them, answering questions and telling each who participated that I thought they made good points. When I was done I thanked them for their attention. With each presentation I got more and more comfortable and more and more into presenting stuff.

In turn, when others presented stuff I paid attention to what they said; I looked interested in their topic, and if I could I asked an intelligent question--especially of the ones where no one else did. As we were leaving I told various classmates how interesting I thought their topics were.

I did all this because I always thought of myself as a failure; and in fact I was a failure in many ways. But this time, I was either going to master this or give up trying -- anything -- ever again.

Let me just say I was awkward and out of place. I wasn't at all like the others. But I kept trying. I knew it was going to take concentrated effort.

When I go places now, I rarely come away without having had some sort of a pleasant exchange with someone. I have had a heart-felt exchange with you here and learned something and felt like I contributed something myself.

Now I have a couple of friends who have anxiety. One of my friends sees a counselor and she also takes medication (she has depression, too). She's beautiful and smart--to look at her you'd never think she struggled over anything.

The other friend is a little older and she recognizes that her anxiety is worse sometimes than it is at other times.

If you have not thought about getting professional help with anxiety, I would encourage you. It helped me; it helped my friend.

I would also encourage you to open up to your friends. Say to them "you know, sometimes ...I feel as though I cannot relate to people and I’m not confident in my ability to socialize" ... then ask "do you ever feel that way?"

Your friends might laugh. They may all deny ever feeling that way.

But I am fairly certain that inside at least one--if not all of them -- can relate to that. And what do you have to lose by expressing something from the heart?

You can come here and tell people here what is on your mind. There are others--likely young like yourself -- who can offer their insights and opinions too.

Thank you for replying to me. I hope I have helped even if it was just to listen.

[DarkDevil26]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

Thank you for sharing that with me. You offered deep insight. You've clearly thought about what the problem is and that really is half the battle. It could have been that particular gaming group wasn't the right fit for you interest-wise, but you also realize that part of it was you didn't talk to anyone.

I wonder if this will help you? When I was in school I used to die a thousand deaths during presentations. One day I asked this young woman next to me something (I had not heard what was said) and she replied, "I don't know; I wasn't listening; I am too worried about getting up there myself." What was interesting was how pretty she was, how put together --how she always seemed to have the right answer. (I realized later that when she volunteered to answer <--it was because she knew she had the right answer. Call me slow on the uptake.)

That day I decided 'what the heck--I'm going to enjoy myself' and I went up and gave my presentation looking at people in the eye, smiling at them, asking questions of them, answering questions and telling each who participated that I thought they made good points. When I was done I thanked them for their attention. With each presentation I got more and more comfortable and more and more into presenting stuff.

In turn, when others presented stuff I paid attention to what they said; I looked interested in their topic, and if I could I asked an intelligent question--especially of the ones where no one else did. As we were leaving I told various classmates how interesting I thought their topics were.

I did all this because I always thought of myself as a failure; and in fact I was a failure in many ways. But this time, I was either going to master this or give up trying -- anything -- ever again.

Let me just say I was awkward and out of place. I wasn't at all like the others. But I kept trying. I knew it was going to take concentrated effort.

When I go places now, I rarely come away without having had some sort of a pleasant exchange with someone. I have had a heart-felt exchange with you here and learned something and felt like I contributed something myself.

Now I have a couple of friends who have anxiety. One of my friends sees a counselor and she also takes medication (she has depression, too). She's beautiful and smart--to look at her you'd never think she struggled over anything.

The other friend is a little older and she recognizes that her anxiety is worse sometimes than it is at other times.

If you have not thought about getting professional help with anxiety, I would encourage you. It helped me; it helped my friend.

I would also encourage you to open up to your friends. Say to them "you know, sometimes ...I feel as though I cannot relate to people and I’m not confident in my ability to socialize" ... then ask "do you ever feel that way?"

Your friends might laugh. They may all deny ever feeling that way.

But I am fairly certain that inside at least one--if not all of them -- can relate to that. And what do you have to lose by expressing something from the heart?

You can come here and tell people here what is on your mind. There are others--likely young like yourself -- who can offer their insights and opinions too.

Thank you for replying to me. I hope I have helped even if it was just to listen.

So I am already seeking help for my anxiety and my depression. Both of which have been deemed extremely severe by multiple therapists. I'm on medication and I found it's helped very little. The thing that gets me is more or less I want to talk to people but at the same time, I kinda don't put myself in the position to do so. Like I get so worked up around people I don't know and I get really nervous and I tend to keep to myself, headphones in, buried in phone. I know trial and error is what it takes to make friends and find romantic partners. Friends I have absolutely tried, succeeded in some, failed in some. When it comes to romantic partners I just have no idea how to even begin. I'm so inexperienced in that field of life that I just give up when I fail. It's hard and it's borderline humiliating. I also take rejection very poorly. I was recently rejected by my crush at work because she came out to me as lesbian. I was devastated. I was crying for 2 days straight, I became physically ill for the better part of 4 days, and the friendship with this girl just hasn't been the same since.

It's like I don't want to be hurt more than I already am. I have been through a lot in my life. I have been bullied, abused, made fun of by girls I have had crushes on in the past. I definitely feel the ripple affects of those horrible high school years to this day. It impacts to way I act around other people, how I view the world, etc. I get the trauma is a separate problem, however I feel because of my bad past, I feel I am the way I am when it comes to social interaction. I do know a lot of my bad self esteem problems come from being told I was fat, ugly, and that no girl would ever want me. It was drilled into my head constantly by my "friends."

So due to this past I have had, I feel its drastically altered my perception of the people I am surrounded by. Its almost that I hate them to a certain degree. I hate them because I'm jealous of them. I hate them because they are better looking, have social skills, and can relate to other people and not be awkward. The hatred runs so much deeper than that though. There are so many reasons I feel so much anger and hatred towards society. The way I was treated in the past, and my jealousy issues play a huge part in that. I want these feelings to go away so badly but until I fit in somewhere with someone, I just don't see it happening. Sadly, I don't see myself getting over the hump until either someone takes the initiative to become friends with me because I'm too afraid to do it myself, or better, I just get out of college. High school and college have both been horrible experiences for me and I just want school to come to an end.

Theres so much I want in life and I feel I have been working on myself for so long and getting no results. Maybe my best isn't good enough? I truly don't know. But my anger, hatred, hopelessness, helplessness, and my anxiety just worsen by the day. Putting myself in uncomfortable situations is clearly what i have to do. But I don't know where to start.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by DarkDevil26

So I am already seeking help for my anxiety and my depression. Both of which have been deemed extremely severe by multiple therapists. I'm on medication and I found it's helped very little. The thing that gets me is more or less I want to talk to people but at the same time, I kinda don't put myself in the position to do so. Like I get so worked up around people I don't know and I get really nervous and I tend to keep to myself, headphones in, buried in phone. I know trial and error is what it takes to make friends and find romantic partners. Friends I have absolutely tried, succeeded in some, failed in some. When it comes to romantic partners I just have no idea how to even begin. I'm so inexperienced in that field of life that I just give up when I fail. It's hard and it's borderline humiliating. I also take rejection very poorly. I was recently rejected by my crush at work because she came out to me as lesbian. I was devastated. I was crying for 2 days straight, I became physically ill for the better part of 4 days, and the friendship with this girl just hasn't been the same since.

It's like I don't want to be hurt more than I already am. I have been through a lot in my life. I have been bullied, abused, made fun of by girls I have had crushes on in the past. I definitely feel the ripple affects of those horrible high school years to this day. It impacts to way I act around other people, how I view the world, etc. I get the trauma is a separate problem, however I feel because of my bad past, I feel I am the way I am when it comes to social interaction. I do know a lot of my bad self esteem problems come from being told I was fat, ugly, and that no girl would ever want me. It was drilled into my head constantly by my "friends."

So due to this past I have had, I feel its drastically altered my perception of the people I am surrounded by. Its almost that I hate them to a certain degree. I hate them because I'm jealous of them. I hate them because they are better looking, have social skills, and can relate to other people and not be awkward. The hatred runs so much deeper than that though. There are so many reasons I feel so much anger and hatred towards society. The way I was treated in the past, and my jealousy issues play a huge part in that. I want these feelings to go away so badly but until I fit in somewhere with someone, I just don't see it happening. Sadly, I don't see myself getting over the hump until either someone takes the initiative to become friends with me because I'm too afraid to do it myself, or better, I just get out of college. High school and college have both been horrible experiences for me and I just want school to come to an end.

Theres so much I want in life and I feel I have been working on myself for so long and getting no results. Maybe my best isn't good enough? I truly don't know. But my anger, hatred, hopelessness, helplessness, and my anxiety just worsen by the day. Putting myself in uncomfortable situations is clearly what i have to do. But I don't know where to start.

You're very well-spoken (well-written?) here. That's a good start. Of course I am not girlfriend material, I am old enough to be your grandma. But, I've dated, gotten married and all that so I know a few things about romance and relationships. Not all people find college rewarding in a personal sense. Mine was only rewarding in the way I described to you--and that was just a few years ago. When I was young, college (when I went the first time) was miserable. So I get that. I was even told the same things you were when I was in high school; that I was unattractive, fat, a loser.

So. The thing about life is it is so incremental; and also the thing about the successes in life -- well you know they come about because people have connections and get a leg up that way; or they get 'lucky' in that they are in the right place at the right time (for whatever it is) or they work and work and work and work and gain success little by little. For me it was definitely going to be that last one--working and working and little by little but I am starting to run out of life--just stating a fact here for myself.

But you--well, you still have time. You know my friend with the anxiety (the beautiful one) she lamented to me just the other day "I'm going to be 30 soon". Here is what I told her: "The way I see it, you've only been an adult for 12 years." <--and that was being generous. 18 is still pretty much a teen, even if legally it is adult.

That young woman who came out to you? She thought enough of you to tell you something very personal. The way I see that--hmmm. Wonder if she has any straight young women she can introduce you to?

A couple of things come to mind. If you do not think your therapist or counselor is helping; please discuss that with them. Ask for different strategies, or the possibility of switching to another. I hope you are being forthright about your angry feelings--it's ok to tell that.

And if you think what you have done so far has not worked for you--how about choosing one or two things, and thinking of another strategy to see if that would work better?

You might laugh at this--go ahead. I told a friend of mine--and she laughed. I used to have math anxiety. I was in a math class and finally I thought -- "hey I am paying for this class" and the teacher seemed nice enough so I told him that. He did not laugh. In fact he kind of brightened up and he said "Really? Oh, you might want to look at this website, and you might want to read" (some article) "and if that does not help, let me know and I can come up with some others..." I did what he suggested. And it helped. Did it turn me into Einstein? Oh, heck no. But I stopped freezing like a deer in the headlights when I took a test.

If the medication isn't helping--you can tell your doctor and try another.

You don't say what you are doing about school now--is it in class or all online? I mean you might have to wait until the virus eases up before you can put all your strategies in place.

So how about this. Consider asking one of your friends if they know any nice single gals. And practice your pick up lines. "Would you like to get a coffee this afternoon?" is always a good one. You aren't proposing marriage. The person can say no without it being a big deal. And I assure you that many young people are not as experienced as they would like people to believe. The thing is--it's always new with each person you romance anyway.

Another thing that might be helpful is to write down how you feel, what you feel. I used to do this. Have you thought of writing down what high school was like, then sealing those sheets of paper into an envelope, then putting that envelope at the back of your sock drawer? It's a symbolic way to close that chapter of your life. Then, on a new sheet of paper, write one good thing about yourself--write more if you like. Put that in your wallet. I had one little strip of paper on my work station right at eye level. I kept that there for years. I would read it and rub my finger over the words. You might not want your good words on display, so I suggested the wallet, but if you do; pin it up where you will see it every day.

Thank goodness we only have to be responsible for one day at a time, huh? I hope you do one good thing for yourself today. And I hope tomorrow is better. Thanks for communicating with me. I was feeling pretty low. I feel better now. I hope this exchange has made you feel a little better too.

[DarkDevil26]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

You're very well-spoken (well-written?) here. That's a good start. Of course I am not girlfriend material, I am old enough to be your grandma. But, I've dated, gotten married and all that so I know a few things about romance and relationships. Not all people find college rewarding in a personal sense. Mine was only rewarding in the way I described to you--and that was just a few years ago. When I was young, college (when I went the first time) was miserable. So I get that. I was even told the same things you were when I was in high school; that I was unattractive, fat, a loser.

So. The thing about life is it is so incremental; and also the thing about the successes in life -- well you know they come about because people have connections and get a leg up that way; or they get 'lucky' in that they are in the right place at the right time (for whatever it is) or they work and work and work and work and gain success little by little. For me it was definitely going to be that last one--working and working and little by little but I am starting to run out of life--just stating a fact here for myself.

But you--well, you still have time. You know my friend with the anxiety (the beautiful one) she lamented to me just the other day "I'm going to be 30 soon". Here is what I told her: "The way I see it, you've only been an adult for 12 years." <--and that was being generous. 18 is still pretty much a teen, even if legally it is adult.

That young woman who came out to you? She thought enough of you to tell you something very personal. The way I see that--hmmm. Wonder if she has any straight young women she can introduce you to?

A couple of things come to mind. If you do not think your therapist or counselor is helping; please discuss that with them. Ask for different strategies, or the possibility of switching to another. I hope you are being forthright about your angry feelings--it's ok to tell that.

And if you think what you have done so far has not worked for you--how about choosing one or two things, and thinking of another strategy to see if that would work better?

You might laugh at this--go ahead. I told a friend of mine--and she laughed. I used to have math anxiety. I was in a math class and finally I thought -- "hey I am paying for this class" and the teacher seemed nice enough so I told him that. He did not laugh. In fact he kind of brightened up and he said "Really? Oh, you might want to look at this website, and you might want to read" (some article) "and if that does not help, let me know and I can come up with some others..." I did what he suggested. And it helped. Did it turn me into Einstein? Oh, heck no. But I stopped freezing like a deer in the headlights when I took a test.

If the medication isn't helping--you can tell your doctor and try another.

You don't say what you are doing about school now--is it in class or all online? I mean you might have to wait until the virus eases up before you can put all your strategies in place.

So how about this. Consider asking one of your friends if they know any nice single gals. And practice your pick up lines. "Would you like to get a coffee this afternoon?" is always a good one. You aren't proposing marriage. The person can say no without it being a big deal. And I assure you that many young people are not as experienced as they would like people to believe. The thing is--it's always new with each person you romance anyway.

Another thing that might be helpful is to write down how you feel, what you feel. I used to do this. Have you thought of writing down what high school was like, then sealing those sheets of paper into an envelope, then putting that envelope at the back of your sock drawer? It's a symbolic way to close that chapter of your life. Then, on a new sheet of paper, write one good thing about yourself--write more if you like. Put that in your wallet. I had one little strip of paper on my work station right at eye level. I kept that there for years. I would read it and rub my finger over the words. You might not want your good words on display, so I suggested the wallet, but if you do; pin it up where you will see it every day.

Thank goodness we only have to be responsible for one day at a time, huh? I hope you do one good thing for yourself today. And I hope tomorrow is better. Thanks for communicating with me. I was feeling pretty low. I feel better now. I hope this exchange has made you feel a little better too.

It did help a little, in the end though, it comes down to whether or not I can help myself. At this time, considering the state of the world with the virus, I don’t think its possible. However even before the virus I was secluded and isolated. I don’t understand how things would be different after the virus. I still think nothing good about myself, I’m still terrified to talk to girls, etc. Yes the virus has opened my eyes a little and yes ai realize I have work to do. I guess deep down I just don’t feel confident in myself to change and that’s really what it comes down to. I’m just so sick of school life, I want to throw up and cry. I appreciate you having this exchange with me as it did make me feel a little better.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by DarkDevil26

It did help a little, in the end though, it comes down to whether or not I can help myself. At this time, considering the state of the world with the virus, I don’t think its possible. However even before the virus I was secluded and isolated. I don’t understand how things would be different after the virus. I still think nothing good about myself, I’m still terrified to talk to girls, etc. Yes the virus has opened my eyes a little and yes ai realize I have work to do. I guess deep down I just don’t feel confident in myself to change and that’s really what it comes down to. I’m just so sick of school life, I want to throw up and cry. I appreciate you having this exchange with me as it did make me feel a little better.

Well, we don't know yet how the world is going to change. I plan to stick around to see. There is a nice young woman out there somewhere likely thinking much the same as you expressed. I think well of you. Start with that. Good evening.