Need support through leaving my abusive husband, please

So is this Jamie a new girl just hired. As soon as she was hired he mentioned she is pretty but on a heavier side (why would he even say that, to make sure you don’t suspect he likes her?). Most certainly he is attracted to her. If a man has no physical attraction he sure wouldn’t be thinking or dreaming of a woman.

And again you politely explained to him that you lost your trust and you brought up that you two had too many issues even before the affair and his response is “you call the police”. Amazing.

In “sickness and health and rich and poor” doesn’t involve “in affairs and abuse”. He wasn’t sick or became poor. Does he claim that abuse and affairs fall into same category as getting sick or losing ones job???

You might want to tell him that threatening suicide is a sheer manipulation, but if he is truly suicidal he must take himself to ER instead of threatening his soon to be ex wife to off himself. You aren’t a doctor so if he is suicidal he needs to see a medical professional.

You aren’t going to resume a broken relationship because the person threatens to kill himself. That’s what mental health facilities and ER are for, they will help him out, or at the very least he could call crisis hotline.

It’s not your job to keep him alive and he needs to immediately stop telling you that

I know, right?????

He was attracted to her from the get go - get real. And I'm sure he still must be.

He's just not listening to me or he doesn't want to listen.

Great point about in sickness and in health vows - no, it does not include enduring abuse and affairs. WTF. He's deluded.

Agreed - I don't think he's threatening suicide per se. I think he's just wishing he weren't alive anymore, but not due to suicide.

Still telling you he wants to die is a manipulation. I personally would consider it manipulative threats of a suicide

I feel like everything he is saying lately is all part of a manipulation. I really did not realize while with him just HOW manipulative he truly is - it's eye opening for sure.

Absolutely. Even the way he is pleading. He still says in between how it’s your fault pretty much.

In addition he keeps saying HE doesn’t want this in response to you saying it’s over. What kind of response is that? If someone tells me they want relationship to end, I’d be upset but not respond with “but I don’t”. He is self absorbed

RIGHT????

It's all about what HE wants - he doesn't care if I don't want the relationship - he does, and that's ALL that matters to him.

He's SO incredibly self absorbed and selfish.

I'm the same. We have to teach ourselves to not offer any information unless directly asked and keep it short and simple. One sentence or one word if possible. Likewise, there needs to be a clear distinction between the I and the we. In other words, you know how you feel and you know what you want. Don't let his demands override your own.

Clear boundaries should be set, within yourself and towards him. In my case, I think about things in this way: some things are his business (i.e. his daughters school performance), while other things are not his business (i.e anything to do with me).

Lastly, I practiced speaking in monotone and "grey rock". It's void of any emotion and the words and topics I am willing to discuss are very businesslike. Think of a cold businessman or lawyer and how they speak, the words they use, and topics you are most likely to hear them speak about. More importantly, what are they more likely to avoid speaking about? Think of of the narc. What topics will never come out their mouths. The answer to these things, the thing you want to avoid, is talking about yourself. Letting who you are or how you feel come out into conversation is dangerous. It can be used against you by manipulation or through turning the tables on you.

We are supposed to be forthcoming with people but not with a dark triad. We are open with others because it builds connection, closeness, and trust but, this is the very thing you are trying to avoid with the narc. Man, I wish I knew this years ago. I wish I was proficient at it today. He catches me off guard though and I react with absolute honesty. It's very frustrating to say the least.

Those are good points azure.

It’s good and important be vulnerable and express how we we truly feel with loved ones. But when relationship is over and when the other person is self absorbed and perhaps narcissistic, being vulnerable with them serves no purpose except gives them more ammunition

It does not mean you shouldn’t express how hurt you are. In therapy, with friends and family, on forums etc Just not with the abuser especially if it’s over. Being vulnerable with them is not needed.

Now of course it’s easier said than done

Precisely

Thanks @AzureRain.

I am definitely not at that point yet.

I am emotional and I am still raw with emotion. It's going to be a long process for me to get where you are talking about. But, that being said, I have been able to pull back quite a bit and keep a lot of communications short and business like - other times, not at all, like when he's begging with me.

I liked how rational you sounded when you explained things to him in the last posts. You broke my trust, you cheated, we had other issues, too many fights, I am not interested to continue with relationship, it’s not working for me. Articulate. Clear. To the point. It was the best.

AW, THANKS so much!!!

I am proud of how that came out too!

Oh boy- so get this. Here's his latest and newest angle.

He called me last night, so I picked up the phone. God knows WHY I decided to actually speak with him. We've talked only once on the phone since he moved out four weeks ago, and I yelled at him then. That was just the other day.

So he gets me on the phone last night and he proposes that we delay a divorce for several months, that he keeps me on his health insurance, and helps me to pay for it. Then he informs me that I don't need a lawyer, and that his lawyer can represent BOTH OF US. Well, so now he's telling me his lawyer can MEDIATE the divorce AFTER I've told him I am getting and have paid a lawyer. Go figure. So he proposes that I fire my lawyer and use his.

Clearly, he doesn't like that I've gotten myself a lawyer. And now he wants to delay a divorce for several months.

This is really getting OLD. His manipulative tactics.

I am composing my text to him now, telling him I will come off of his health insurance, that there is no need to delay the divorce, and since I've already paid my lawyer, I don't want to backtrack and only use his. There really is only the car lease to negotiate. And knowing how manipulative he is, he is going to try to convince me to stay on the lease through the duration. I feel I need a lawyer to argue and negotiate this on my behalf. My husband knows I will bend and give into what he wants. He's been able to accomplish this so far in our marriage.

My mother tells me I am a pushover. That really hurt me and I was offended at the time, but now that I see how much my husband has been able to manipulate and control me, I'm afraid she's right - I have been a pushover. I hate that about myself - FAR TOO NICE.

You do indeed need to keep your own lawyer! I don’t know much about law admittedly, but you do need someone who has your best interests at heart and I doubt a lawyer serving both of you can be the advocate you need (especially one your husband hired... based on what, exactly? Consider the source, here).
You’re right that there’s no need to delay the divorce - your husband is just being inconvenienced (and shocked, shocked I tell ya!) by the consequences you’re setting in motion for what he did. The sooner it’s over, the sooner you can start healing.
And don’t hate yourself for being “nice”. My T says I’m a pushover, too - I also hate it, so I do sympathise with you, but we would be well served to look at it as an opportunity to learn to have stronger boundaries.
This situation is tough, but it sounds like you’re determined to get through and that’s a great start.

Thanks @RoxanneToto!

I agree I need a lawyer!!!! My husband is trying any new angle he can think of! And it's all pure manipulation! I DO need an advocate!!!!

And thanks re: being a pushover. You words help! I love how you put it - just need stronger boundaries! YES! I DO need MUCH stronger boundaries! We can be nice, polite and congenial, but we don't need to allow people to cross our boundaries or disrespect our boundaries! I am learning this. Learning boundaries is going to be a huge part of my therapeutic process now.

And yes - I am very determined! I will not allow him to manipulate me into anything HE wants. He has been trying a number of angles, including guilt, and I am just not having it.

Now he is assuming I must want to date someone or start seeing people because I want a quicker divorce.

He's probably dating already! NOT ME! GEEZ!

Iam SO sorry, people who say things like that are ignorant and cause even more pain. 'When you blame me, you shame me, and keep me silent."
I stayed for 31 years, we can only do what we can do, when we are ready.

Thank you.

And sooooo true. I am not happy about her response to me and am deciding what to do about it, if anything. I may/may not say something to her, or I may simply choose not to process this anymore with her.

And that's such a wise statement - we can only do what we can and not before we are ready.

Ugh, men are so conniving

I hope you found a lawyer who you are willing to spend some time with. In my experience, once lawyers get involved, divorce become a long, drawn out process.

Sorry, this is happening. What’s the rush to sign these dang papers anyway?

Because once I am working again, I will not be able to spend time on the phone with a lawyer or deal with divorce details. Plus, I want him out of my life ASAP. Wouldn't you? He's abusive and continues to abuse me even now.

This will not be long and drawn out unless he makes it so. We have no shared assets and no children and married less than two years. It's the most basic and easy divorce possible.

He finally said it to me this morning - that no matter how hurt he was over my calling the police, he never should have done what he did with that woman.

I told him - thank you for saying this.

Of course, it doesn't make a difference in terms of us divorcing, but it helps that he finally acknowledged this to me.

What’s his rationale for delaying it? Being nice and provide you with health insurance? Why all of a sudden? Why all of a sudden he is so “nice” and doesn’t want you to pay fir a lawyer? Bet you he has no good explanation of these weird ideas. The only one I could think is that he hopes you change your mind.

Oh of course he says you want to date. Who cares? Plus plenty of people date while separated and not living together anymore. It’s not against the law. Some divorces drag on for so long that there is no reason to sit and wait. If you wanted to date, you’d date and he isn’t a boss of you. So he is full of it.

I’d like to believe that he is sincere. Or he might have a new tactic. Being nicey nice. Offering to pay for insurance and now acknowledging his faults. Might be buttering you up. Somehow it doesn’t pass smell test for me. Last time he acknowledged he was abusive, you gave him second chance. He hopes it will work again. Sorry. Maybe I should be more trusting