Trying to move forward

Yikes, those are some pretty scary threats that she's thrown at you . Even if you know those things aren't rational or likely to happen, it's still cruel of her to put them in your head. Especially considering the possibility that she put a lot of thoughts like that in your head over the years.

It'll all be okay somehow, and we'll be here for you.

JMHO, but I think the slow pace things are proceeding is potentially beneficial to you. Speaking from personal experience (which may not apply to you obviously), as a good enabler and codependent, I have a history of placating, playing nice, and reactively saying "how high" whenever someone says "jump." If you also have some of those tendencies, it's good for you to engage in a slower process for your own benefit, and has the biproduct of potentially being frustrating for those other people who are used to calling the shots and pushing you around. It's potentially empowering, and can help prevent mistakes of things not well thought through- which can be one of the reasons disordered people rush and push us.

With my DD, a lot of time the validating looks like discussions about healthy behavior and boundaries. She's able to view H as someone who's disordered, and with a lot of issues which are his and his alone. But like you know, you can't get blood from a turnip, so the focus is on healthier relationship behaviors for the future, which sometimes means that past issues come up in contrast. And sometimes, when those past events are discussed, they're in the context of how I could have and should have handled them with better and stronger boundaries. I can't change what's happened, but hopefully she can have a little better platform for her future relationships.

Good for you for recognizing that the intensity of the new woman might not be a good thing. I don't think I've brought it up on your threads, but there's a YouTuber who goes by "The Crappy Childhood Fairy" who helps people deal with trauma and CPTSD. One of the most common topics is that those of us with trauma backgrounds have a tendency to enter turbulent relationships readily because healthy ones feel boring by comparison. We're just so used to the drama and excitement. Once again, slow and steady wins the race.

Have a great time with your daughter. That sounds like fun.

Oh yes..... I placated things a lot by playing nice, and saying, "IMMEDIATELY, HOW HIGH?"

So, slowing things down is new and good.

I can actually feel myself changing as a person.

My wife isn't used to NOT being in control. She tried to sell the house while we were in it. I got a call from a realtor who told me she said, the house was going to sell on the timelines she said, for the price she said, and that I would have the house prepped for sale, and would accomodate all open houses and visits.

Um. No.

He said he'd been trying to tell her that and she didn't accept it.

In fact, she didn't accept it that he wasn't allowed to show the house if the occupants that were there declined a visit. He was supposed to just come on in with prospective buyers.

So, she has since told me that she now has two lawyers, one for the divorce and one that specializes in real estate law, and she is suing me for not selling the home, and that she is going to charge me rent for the time that I am living in the home.

When I told her, over text, that me and the kids have nowhere to go, her reply was, "Not my problem." Well.... Yeah, actually, it partially is your problem.

Reality is going to hit her hard.

I still love her. She's damaged, and toxic, and she's not coming back, but I love her.

RDMercer

Do you have these threats from her in writing like emails and texts?

Yes, I do.

RDM

((((RD)))))

Wow. Those things that you've shared she's done, are awful. No one should be subjected to that level of abuse and incivility.

That's great that you feel yourself changing. Does it feel like healing at this point?

It's not her narrative anymore.

Make sure you save all emails and texts from her

So sorry you and your children have been dealing with this.

Her threats are empty. Courts are going to decide who gets what. Not her. I am sure she’ll get stuff if she was dependent but since you have kids full time she might not get as much and it’s not up to her. Up to the judge. She was going to charge you rent for living in your own home? With kids? She is out of her mind. Save her texts. Screen shot them and have a file with those but don’t even reply to her. She is playing games.

Also, given that she abuses alcohol, you will never know what level of alcoholic is in her system and she may be texting and threatening you under the influence.

There is an initial buzz and then after that the alcohol just slowly disables the frontal lobe executive function part of the brain. That’s when these angry threatening outbursts take place. Same can happen with dementia.

That’s why distancing is very important because of the unstable behavior patterns. That is why it’s so unhealthy for your children to be exposed to her. It can traumatize them and part of the reason you and your children feel so uneasy at the thought of her showing up is because she is so unpredictable.

I am very sorry because this is something I have experienced first hand.

You know what Open Eyes, you're right.

She sipped wine throughout the day. If she was working an afternoon shift she may drink in the morning.

She comfortably drank 1.5 bottles a day, sometimes 2, sometimes a little over that.... Let's say an average of 8 drinks a day, and 60 a week in a small person who ate very little.

Yeah. I actually forget the alcohol could be talking.

RDM

You actually are fortunate she chose to move out. It put you in a better position with your children to keep her away as she can get abusive towards all of you. You have every right to live in your home with your children. A judge will rule in favor of that especially since you are the “sober” safe provider.

This therapist on YT was recommened to me by my own therapist. Due to finances, I can't go to counselling as much as I'd like, and she was good enough to recommend some online sources.

When I watched the one on covert narcissism, I wanted to vomit. It was so traumatic and so familiar.

Two nights ago I was working in the garage, and watched this one. I had the same reaction.

This was my life.



The constant beratings and escalation despite everything I did to quell things AND the attacks on my masculinity and my maleness... "You're just a lapdog."

And the very early intense feelings, the early intense physical connection that just..... stopped.... And was then used as a ploy ever after.

She summarized 25 years of my life in 10 minutes.

RDMercer

Glad you have found information that validates your personal relationship confusion. It’s possible for someone to have both bpd and NPD problems. Add to that her ongoing abuse of alcohol that magnifies these cluster B problems. This is very hard on children who literally have no life skills to know what to do, it’s just awful. These children often do not even know how to talk about it only that they avoid and distance in whatever way they can.

I went through a lot with my older sister and she got so bad I was genuinely embarrassed. This was especially true when trying to talk to medical professionals. Then my sister blocked me from being able to talk to any medical professional. This was what I experienced the last years of my parents lives. Also my sister kept saying how she had special powers and could talk to spirits etc She went into these delusional states all while extorting thousands of dollars from my unsuspecting parents.

I had three different therapists tell me I was dealing with a very disordered sister and told me to read about BPD and NPD. It was as though someone knew all about my sister. Yes! It got me nauseous too.

I am sorry for anyone experiencing someone so incredibly unbalanced this way.

Thank you for sharing that!

My wife never became "supernatural" but she could feel... She could feeeeeel the pain, the angst, the anguish..... Of women..... Who were mistreated by men.... Of women.... Who couldn't get a doctor to believe them..... Of the young girl..... Who would see a man get treatment before her at the hospital just because she's a girl.....Even though she was dying and could feel her life slipping away.... A man was treated before her

Oh, the drama.

Oh yes! Lots of drama. Both present with BPD and NPD. That and a need for control. Also exaggerating and gaslighting.

They often love to get a buzz and go clubbing and can hang out with the kind of friends you have described.

I know all about the toxic threats you have described.

You really are much better off without her in your life. They are just users, it’s all about them. They are either the hero or the victim. Nothing is ever their fault or a result of their own actions.

You know what's one of the biggest problems with coverts? They're so covert....

It's like they don't send up red flags so much as pink ones. It can take a long time to see it for what it is- as you know.

That 20/20 hindsight can really mess with your head.

I still struggle with a lot of anger, mostly at myself- that I accepted certain things, that weren't okay, as normal or acceptable. Didn't value myself enough, even though I remember legitimately arguing for my own benefit at times (and generally losing).

Even though it hurts a lot, understanding the truth of what was happening is still a good thing, right?

The important thing to remember is these deceptive individuals know the weaknesses of others. They have honed these deceptive skills for years.

Oh one of those, I can “feeeellll” the pain”. Yeah ok whatever. She possess special power to feel these pains. Too much free time on her hands hence she can get into these dramas

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDMercer Thank you for sharing that! My wife never became "supernatural" but she could feel... She could feeeeeel the pain, the angst, the anguish..... Of women..... Who were mistreated by men.... Of women.... Who couldn't get a doctor to believe them..... Of the young girl..... Who would see a man get treatment before her at the hospital just because she's a girl.....Even though she was dying and could feel her life slipping away.... A man was treated before her Oh, the drama.

Yep, when drunk the imagination runs wild with drama

Yeah.

In the last few years she began trying on different personalities, it seemed.

She had ADD for about 2 months.

"I can't sit still. I have ADD. I have to talk all the time. I have ADD. I'm sorry it's so hard to watch a movie with me. I have ADD. I have all this energy. I have ADD."

She changed ethnicities for a while. Her speech patterns, her movements, her "attitude", the pop culture she became interested in, all changed to align with a different ethnicity for a while; to that of one of her new BFFs, actually. She kinda became that woman.

COVID and the shutdowns were harder on her than on anybody, including the kids. She said so.

The war in Ukraine effected her so much that she could feeeeeel it all the time. We are close to someone who is from Ukraine, who was supporting family to flee during the war. Somehow my wife avoided her for the entire time, because only my wife could feeeeeeel what this was really like.

When a kid my daughter knows died very suddenly, I told my wife about it. She could feeeeeeel it..... She knew. She knew that girl was sick, sick for months and no one would believe her, because she was a girl. No man, no doctor would believe a girl that she was sick. And when she arrived at the hospital........ She knew.......... She knew that girl had to wait, while they treated a man instead of her. She knew...... She could feeeeeel that girls life slipping away while a man got treatment instead of her.

And, despite how much she could feeeeeeel it...... She never talked to our daughter about the death of this kid. I parented her through that.

These are all true things we experienced between 2020-2023.

RDM

SMH

From what I understand about cluster b personalities, they are often in a constant identity crisis- as in they lack an identity. As a result they get good at mirroring people around them, so they can connect and fit in, and basically assume other people's identities as their own. It seems to be a sad survival mechanism. Couple that with their need for drama and attention....

Wow, what you endured just sounds exhausting.

It sounds nearly identical to what I know and experience from people with BPD. Not saying she has it but symptoms sounds like I wanted to say “do I know your wife?”. Now I get it that one can’t help if they have PD. But it become their responsibility if they choose to drink and exasperate the symptoms and choose not to seek treatment. It could also be that she has traits of it and not full blown disorder

Well... It's the weekend.

I worked late Thursday so left work an hour early on Friday, and took daughter grocery shopping. She went to a hockey game, and to friend's for the night.

Me and big kid worked on his old truck, then went to check in on daughter after the game, and he and I went for pizza at 10pm.

This morning... laundry and house cleaning. Me and the big guy spent the whole afternoon helping an injured friend pour concrete and fix his foundation.

Now my son is gone to his girlfriend's. Tomorrow he's going offroading and to a shooting range. Daughter and I are visiting friends tonight, and all three if us are visiting other friends tomorrow night.

And this is just an average weekend.

Like... Last year, this would have been the best weekend of the year! This, right now, would have been a one in a million weekend.

We're already planning for next weekend.

This is insanely easy.

RDmercer

So....

There were a few things done to infringe on our bubble in the past week, including some slow drive-bys, and leaving things in the mailbox. Not threatening things, but random, and a note on the front door.

That rattled my daughter quite a lot. I drove her into school yesterday and walked her right into the guidance office.

They have a guidance counselor there who is actually a fully licensed psychologist, a Dr. of psychology, with a private practice.

As it turns out, my daughter has been going to this counselor regularly since last spring.

The counselor, no lie, has a specialty in families that have a narcissistic or BPD parent. She asked me a few questions during our meeting, and then said:

"Covert narcissism and borderline personality disorder are comorbid. I have no doubt she has these personality disorders.. There is no cure and they will never get better. I've been working with your daughter for the deep wounds she has from growing up in your home. You're a good man. I already know that. Don't try to save your wife, don't try to get through to her. There needs to be 100% no-contact to put a bubble around your kids to keep your wife's disordered emotions, emptiness, and anger from being put onto them. Your daughter needs years of stability to feel safe. You need to keep educating yourself in any way you can about these disorders, and rely on that and people around you to ensure you don't go back to trying to connect with her."


RDMercer

You're navigating those bumps that come up very well and proactively.

That's an amazing resource to have available at the school. What are the chances of that? It's pretty cool though.

My heart goes out to your daughter. Narcissists, particularly covert ones, leave such disastrous doubt and anxiety in their wake that it's hard even for adults to come to terms with it. Narcissists are so skilled at presenting a good face to the world around them, that victims are often left lacking any real validation about what they've experienced. Thank goodness you, and the counselors you've found, are doing that for your kids- bringing it out into the light of day so that they don't have to doubt their own perceptions and experiences.

Always the hero or the victim never the villain. These narcissistic individuals never change and live in their own delusions always seeking drama and ways to feed their ego. They get bored and move from one partner to another as they are users.

Never fall into the trap of thinking you failed. They want you to feel like it’s all your fault, it’s part of their disorder.