Trying to move forward

Yeah, taking it easy with yard work and exercise for a while.

I know the stuff about college is true, but this is so UNNECESSARY! The kids could have a MUCH easier start.

"
The narc doesn't love someone for who they are, they give positive reenfocement for giving the narc what they want."

WOW

WOW

WOW

That's a dose of reality right there.


My daughter and I went away for 5 days, just us.

I asked her if she needed her mom. The stuff she said floored me.

*****
I need a mom, but when she was here she still wasn't a mom.

Mom said stuff that always changed what I said a little and made me feel like the problem was me. I always felt a little crazy. Me and you fight sometimes but I haven't felt crazy since January.

Mom told me how much she loved me and that she'd do anything for me, but she actually did very little and her hugs didn't feel real.

There are things I want to talk to mom about, but I can't count on it she'll be there for me if I do, and it's not worth opening the door to her to try.

I have two friends moms who give hugs that feel real and I think they love me, so I'll talk to them.

There are really good people in our family. You have friends that are really good people, who really know how to love and look after someone. Why didn't Mom want to be part of this?

I love my daughter so much.

Being a victim of narcissistic abuse can lead to nervous system problems and a trigger can cause too much cortisol to build up in your muscles and nervous system. It can get very painful.

Women can be very cruel and deceptive. I went through hell with my older sister the last years of my parents lives. I’m sorry

People should not be sharing pictures with you. You don’t need to be triggered.

I keep wanting to tell her I love her, that I miss her, and that I'm open to trying again.

If it wasn't for the kids, I'd have never stopped chasing her.

You’re trauma bonded still. It takes time to break this addiction and habit. When you look up trauma bond, it literally creates an addiction through a change in your brain’s chemicals due to the cycle of abuse and intermittent reinforcement. I am still trauma bonded to my ex husband and it’s been four months since our divorce. I, like you, want him to turn it all around and to make things right again. But I know the reality is that the abuse cycle will only just keep repeating itself. You love a mirage of her - the person she presented herself to be in the beginning and in small glimpses. But that person is just a facade and a cover up of the abusive person underneath. So don’t let rose colored glasses fool you into abuse amnesia. You don’t love HER… you love the idea of her and the false persona she gave you.. the fantasy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDMercer I keep wanting to tell her I love her, that I miss her, and that I'm open to trying again. If it wasn't for the kids, I'd have never stopped chasing her.

That is not wise. Glad your own kids keep you making wise decisions.

If ever you want to be happy in your life you need to focus on REALITY, not your wishful thinking, kids or no kids. That kind of thinking IS DYSFUNCTIONAL & will never lead to happiness.

You were posting about your marriage for years. It’s been unhappy and dysfunctional for a long time. When you say you want to try again it sounds as you are addicted to dysfunction. If you tried again, it wouldn’t miraculously become great, it would be more of the same.

Maybe I am confusing you with someone else but I thought she said she wants you to stop pursuing her. So it would be unwise to chase her. And I don’t recall you ever mentioning any of her outstanding qualities. Just looks.

Longer you think about her in a romantic sense longer you’ll suffer. You need to reprogram yourself

I just looked up your old posts. 3 years ago she was calling you names and was repeatedly kicking you out of your room and you were researching divorce and calculating how much it costs you.

When people start researching divorce (for a good reason in your case), marriage is over. It’s done. But 3 years later you are still chasing her but she’s still the same person. This is still the same dysfunctional marriage.

You are in love with an idea. Not with a real person. You want a happy marriage. You could have it. With a different person

I'm trauma bonded. I know this.

Also, like I said, there were intermittent times where I felt very connected and attuned. To an incredible degree.

Me and my daughter have talked about our very short attentions to memory. Yes, I have abuse amnesia.

My kids are not talking me out of contacting her, or holding me back. In the final year we were together she really, really destroyed her relationships with the kids; "ruptured" as the therapist called it.

As such I won't violate their trust in me by reaching out to her.

This is a hell of a thing. I'm stressed AF, mourning the loss of the only person I felt I loved, wishing for those close connected times, recognizing I've essentially been played and financially wrung out for decades by someone who feels no guilt or remorse, and I'm trying to rebuild my kids and provide stability.

If she'd died I'd get a lot of support from the people around me. In some ways this is worse, and I'm weekly told to suck it up and see how much better this all is without her. I've been abused for years and I'm mourning the loss of my own life and future right now.

And... I still see her as a person! I believe in empathy and seeing the truth in people. That's a conviction. If you don't stick to convictions when it effects you, then it's not a conviction.

She is an injured, damaged, poorly emotionally developed person who possibly has brain injury from alcohol use. She's the mother of my kids and I do see her as a whole person. NOT encapsulating her into something less means I do feel empathy for her.

This is hard.

“Incredible attuned and connected” at times and then bad at times is a common sign of an unhealthy relationship. I don’t know if she has BPD but if she does what you describe sounds very much like a relationship with someone with BPD. Even phrases “love like never before” is a textbook relationship with a person with PD. It’s hard to leave them because over the years you became addicted to intensity and drama they provide. And it’s common to put them on pedestal because that’s how they manipulate you. And worse they treat you, more you want them. Sad all together

Your wife has moved out and engages with other men. Your wife wants to liquidate so she has money to follow through with her new life without you.

You have no choice in terms of having a relationship with her she doesn’t want that.

"Your wife has moved out and engages with other men. Your wife wants to liquidate so she has money to follow through with her new life without you.

You have no choice in terms of having a relationship with her she doesn’t want that."

What does that statement accomplish?

I'm not insane, or stupid. I've acknowledged all this.

In fact, I'm the one who told you all this.

I'm hurting. I'm ill. I'm depressed. I'm post-abuse, and dealing with depression. I'm scared financially.

That didn't sound empathetic. It sounded directive.

Like I said, if she'd died, most of the people in my orbit would be kinder and more supportive than I've seen.

How do I process this grief and depression when, even anonymously, I can't express how it's effecting me.

When I tell a friend what I'm going through and he says "eff that B", that isn't helpful.

If he says, "Whatever. She used you up and moved on. Move on too." That isn't helpful.

This hurts.

Being told "Look at reality," being told, "Other people have dealt with worse, get over it," is not actually allowing me to process what's going on.

I'm depressed, in counselling and on meds for depression.

If I had anxiety would, "Don't worry about it," be effective? Or "Just suck it up"?

Holy God. It's six months, and practically no one around me gets that I'm mourning my whole life right now, to the point that it's coming out in me physically.

This. Hurts.

Wrapping your head around stuff like this takes a long time IME. It's an actual factual grieving process that includes denial at times.

Denial is a safety mechanism, if you didn't know that. It keeps us from getting to a point where we are so overwhelmed that we have a complete mental breakdown.

It doesn't sound like you're considering contacting her, but rather like maybe you are struggling and bouncing around mentally in an effort to make sense of it all?

You sound so overwhelmed right now. Something I'm guilty of, and maybe you are too, is getting way too ahead of myself. It's really easy to imagine down the road and try to guess all the awful things that might happen, whether it's long term loneliness, kids not getting to go to college, or financial problems. Those are all real issues, but most of them are solvable in their own time, and not something to think about when you're feeling otherwise distressed. You'll just get increasingly overwhelmed.

Can you pull back just to today, and focus on having everything you need today? You have a place to live, food to eat, your kids are okay, etc. Just breath and do today. Don't worry about tomorrow.

Tomorrow, just focus on having what you need tomorrow.

There will be plenty of time to solve other problems once you feel a little more like you have your feet back underneath you. Just breath and take it one day at a time. or even just an hour at a time if need be. The addicts aren't wrong about this approach

Hang in there

People do understand that you are struggling. No one thinks you should just be happy jolly.

But when you repeatedly state that you want relationship with her even though not only you were abused, but also she doesn’t want relationship with you and you can’t force her. When you tell us you want this woman, you pretty much telling us that you like to be abused. You can’t expect us to agree to this course of action.

Imagine I made a post that I was married to abusive alcoholic who left me and children and refuses to be a parent but I still want him back and he’s so gorgeous. People would tell me to wake up. And rightly so. Just because genders are reversed it doesn’t mean we think living in a fantasy and craving abuse is the way to go.

No one thinks that you need to suck it up or not worry. No one said that. Worshipping, idolizing abusers and living in a fantasy of you two living happily ever after is just not healthy

I think this is the trauma bond. He knows he's trauma bonded to her, and it's a long process to work through it.

Maybe I'm off the mark here, but it seems like maybe he's struggling with the feelings that go with the trauma bond more than he actually wants her back?

I understand your grief and how hurt you are. I am very personally familiar with the deep disappointment type of depression.

My concern is how my caring concern has possibly contributed to your regressing back into a state of denial and thinking your wishes will somehow change the reality.

You deserve better! This woman is a disordered user.

Quote:

If she'd died I'd get a lot of support from the people around me.

If she had died, you would get support because you wouldn't be saying:

Quote:

I keep wanting to tell her I love her, that I miss her, and that I'm open to trying again. If it wasn't for the kids, I'd have never stopped chasing her.

You would be forced to deal with the reality that she is gone & process the grief & go through it without the drams of still wanting to chase her. Gone is gone but if you are unable or unwilling to accept that, this is something that needs serious work in therapy if you really want to heal from this

It could be. But I don’t know.

Some people prefer to live in a fantasy. Like I was in a relationship with alcoholic and my fantasy was how he’ll be sober and things will be great. It was easier than facing a reality.

Facing reality is hard but that’s the only way to live.

Like in this situation reality is that this woman abused her husband, left their marriage and moved on with her life ignoring her kids- so it’s time to take actions and take care of business ending this charade.
Fantasy is that she is such a good person and I hope she came back. It’s not real. At some point one has to wake up and see what’s real

I’ve known people unable or unwilling to accept reality that the relationship was over. This one woman had her fiancée ending their engagement but she refused to return engagement ring. Because she continued wearing the ring she insisted she’s still engaged. Like refused to face it. I was in a relationship with someone who refused to accept that it was over and I left. I had to jump through hoops to get him see the reality. Not accepting reality is not uncommon but it certainly isn’t healthy

I don’t understand comparing spouse dying to spouse leaving their family and gallivanting around with friends and lovers and ignoring their children. It’s not the same thing at all and of course people react very differently. She didn’t die. She’s having good time

My wife presented as someone deeply devoted to monogamy, marriage, and family life for decades.

She "got me" in striking ways, at very irregular and far-between times. To face it that that was all a charade to keep me attached and to use me up is staggering. It's 25+ years.

Along with that, she weaponized affection and intimacy. Like I said, it was like living beside a bakery and being gluten free. It was constant desire and unfulfillment EXCEPT for the very rare times it was perfect.

In between all that, I endured abuse and was told it was all my fault and I deserved it.

And she walked away from all of it.... Monogamy, marriage, and family, and is using sexuality to finance her lifestyle, including paid vacations.

Yes... By a former coworker she swore she couldn't stand because he was so aggressive and had such an attitude towards women.

It's mind-blowing.

I'm grieving, I'm depressed. All the people around me since January saying, "pick up, move on, get over it, find someone else, etc" have never acknowledged the degree of pain this all causes. And fear for the future. And fear for the kids.

What, of all I've said, makes any of you think I'm living in delusion?

Have you ever lost someone and wished it was different? Wished you could do something different? Wished you had one more good experience with them? Would someone saying "suck it up and face reality" be of benefit to you during that moment?

I haven't failed in any of my responsibilities while she was here, or since she left. Not one.

Why can't I just be depressed and grieve some?

It's six months, after a lifetime of investment, and barely a day in there that I've stopped.

If you think your role is to make me face reality, you're not a realist, you're not stronger than me, you're just not empathetic.

I have a lot to do today. See you all later.

Hugs to you, RD.

Hope you are doing okay today.

It seems like earlier in the thread you said your were very codependent. Being codependent with a covert N/ passive aggressive N, is a whole other ballgame. I've walked down this road, and am still on it. Heck, to some extent I'll never get off of it, not because I'll still be codependent, but because the experience can never be erased.

The more I walk the road, the less I think I understand. In some ways it's like looking at impressionist art- from a distance it makes decent sense, but the closer you look, it gets strangely blurry and you can't always make sense of things. It's confusing as hell at times. You have to detach from someone you were very attached to, you have to build a new identity when so much of who you thought you were involved them- and that's just at the starting line. .

And it's nothing like being with someone who was overt in their disorder. That makes much more sense. With coverts, you often can't explain what's happened without looking like you're "the crazy one." It's very lonely.

Wherever you are on the journey back to yourself is okay. We should support you and honor that, because none of us has walked your particular road.

Hope you are okay and that today is a good one.

Personally I am angry at the person who sent that picture. It would not surprise me if it is a friend of your wife’s. It’s not something a caring kind person would do. It doesn’t surprise me that it triggered you into feeling very down. I know it would affect me that way.

I do know what it’s like to deal with an alcoholic and not know what their mood will be. I know how narcissistic these individuals can be and how they turn things around and play the victim. I have dealt with their alcoholic blow ups and blackouts. I have experienced others believe them and enable them. Little selfish self centered whiny babies that have the maturity of a child. Yes hanging out at bars picking up guys to use them for their warped supply. They blow through money on binges then act like the poor victim when things sour.

In all honesty you are better off that this beast is out of the home. It’s better for your children too. Your wife is NOT a good person, she is selfish. She prefers to go clubbing and drinking and abandon her family leaving her children and hard working husband traumatized and confused.

It’s heartbreaking and I am sorry. This is not your fault, it’s ALL on HER.

It was a family member of mine who sent it.

Showing her "single" status, her return to her maiden name, on a bar patio with the poisonous friend who helped lead her into this lifestyle.

I think it was sent to me to let me know there was no remorse and no guilt.

It came in with an, "I'm sorry to be the one to send you this, but she's posting a lot."

It's just mind-blowing.

Last night my daughter cried so hard for all the years of stress, walking on egg shells, and ultimately being discarded.

Something else I'm fighting is that this is familiar.

I'm used to being lonely, and trying to make peace so that we can have some kind of positive connection and interaction.

I'm used to trying to gently coax her to reach out to the kids.

I'm lonely and my kids are hurting, and I'm accustomed to initiating an attempt at peace.

It’s very hard when children are involved. They feel loneliness and shame and they feel bad for the parent that is being hurt.

It is like a death because of how it breaks apart the family and leaves a confusing gap. Have you tried seeing if YouTube has talks about how to deal with this challenge? I have not checked but I bet there are talks from therapists that could prove very helpful.

What I do know is that having a partner or family member that
Has this problem along with mood shifts and outbursts has a bad effect on the nervous system. I have that challenge and it can get painful if I face someone that has issues due to alcoholism/addiction. These people do not respect boundaries and can say terrible mean things.