Trying to move forward

I wonder about trying to make peace when she so clearly rejects peace.

Endless peace efforts will make you and your kids eternal supplicants, the ones who are never good enough.

As you note, peace efforts keep your relationship with her as it always has been. They interfere with you and your kids moving forward.

Your kids are doing very well without her. They don't need or want her around.

I agree Bill.

It's just all part of the conditioning.

It's part of breaking the pattern and breaking the addiction. I'm addicted. I'm chasing an intermittent high since years.

I'm used to NOT being validated. Stating my love and commitment and being shredded for it is typical. We hit that point about 4 years ago where I resolved I'd do my best, no matter how vulnerable it made me and just accept whatever I got in return.

So... I'm hurting and my conditioning is telling me to try again, try harder. Make it right. Maybe you'll connect and have some peace and some validation.

Good post

Just caught up after a few busy weeks.

Can fully understand how you feel. You don't seem like a person who can turn off your feelings overnight. Despite what you and your kids have experienced, you still care however misplaced it may now seem. One point that many have made, if you get back together she will not change.

You have a lot of practical and emotional issues to handle. Yes, it's also natural to regress.

I don't have anything to add to the discussion but my thoughts are with you and your kids during this difficult time. My message is stay strong!

Well, I've taken no action.

I've had some very low days.

It's hard to face, even hard to imagine what this all means.

If she truly is a covert narcissist then the times I felt deeply connected were simply here mirroring me back to me.

I miss that feeling. Like I said, the intermittent high is addictive.

My kids said this is the best summer they've ever had; they've done more, saw friends more, had guests over more and laughed more. The youngest said she hasn't cried or felt crazy since January.

I don't know what my wife is pursuing or what she thinks is better than what was here.

I know her income doesn't support her lifestyle, so she has someone or multiple someones financially supporting her. That I could be replaced that completely, and that she's made zero effort towards reconciliation with the kids, is... Staggering.

When she shows you who she is...believe her.

Women don’t always marry for love or are even capable of genuine love. Your wife is showing her true identity “user” and “entitled”. She uses alcohol to escape and distance herself from guilt or shame.

The "not capable of genuine love" thing is hard to face too.

Because it includes the kids.

Sometimes the scope of all this is so overwhelming I start questioning if it's real.

But she poured out the dramatic lines to the kids last year again and again.. "I'm your mother, I will always love you, I would do anything for you."

And when they said, ,"OK. Stop drinking, tell your doctor you drink, go to counselling with us and apologize for the things you've said and done, and quit hanging around with your friends so much and work on things here." Welll..... There were lots of reasons why she couldn't do any of those things

So... Yeah.... Facing that it's not genuine love, for any of us, is pretty overwhelming

Her actions speak to who she really is.

She wants to drink and hang out with her friends and use men.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDMercer The "not capable of genuine love" thing is hard to face too. Because it includes the kids. Sometimes the scope of all this is so overwhelming I start questioning if it's real. But she poured out the dramatic lines to the kids last year again and again.. "I'm your mother, I will always love you, I would do anything for you." And when they said, ,"OK. Stop drinking, tell your doctor you drink, go to counselling with us and apologize for the things you've said and done, and quit hanging around with your friends so much and work on things here." Welll..... There were lots of reasons why she couldn't do any of those things So... Yeah.... Facing that it's not genuine love, for any of us, is pretty overwhelming

REALITY & FACTS can be overwhelming at times. The problem is when one lives in denial of reality & facts, one can never heal from the bad things that have happened in life.

Unfortunately, words are very easy. Toss them out and see what sticks. Hope the other person (or people) believe you or give you the benefit of the doubt- or make excuses for you

Actions do speak far louder than words.

It sometimes seems to me like it's not so much that it's not real, as that it's more of a conditional transaction. Sometimes it was good, sometimes it was bad, but it was always based on whether they were happy or not with the supply you were giving them at that time, coupled with their own perpetual chaos. Definitely not selfless love though.

Hi everyone.

Thanks for letting me talk through and sort through things on here for years. I've clung onto some of your words.

My wife and I are 9 months separated now. It is 6 months since she has had any contact with the kids. She doesn't even know what school they are in, or whether our oldest is working or in college.

Meanwhile, me and the kids laugh every day. We have at least one meal together everyday.

I spent weeks working in the evenings with my oldest, setting up the basement with a kitchenette so that he has his own min-apartment, as a young man should. I put his name on some of the utilities so he can learn some responsibility with bills. We spent weeks making mechanical and welding repairs on an old 4x4 that he bought, and he had great adventures with it this summer. Lots and lots of "good trouble", as I call it. Getting lost, getting stuck, getting out, and having pictures and stories to tell after. We are adventurers by nature, not "mudders".

I've gotten my daughter dirtbike lessons, we've borrowed an ATV and gone exploring on trails, she is working out with me, and watching bad rom coms and teen movies from the 90s. She has bad period pain, so I've been taking her to appointments since March. Last night I was bringing her hot water bottles while we sat on the couch and did math homework together. She's had friends over for the first time in a long time, including for sleepovers, and she has gone for umpteen sleepovers and swimming with friends all summer.

We have friends that we all go visit together for meals, and evenings on the deck or sitting around a fire with them, honestly, laughing until we cry, and laughing until my abs hurt the next day. We have an invite for supper and a firepit tonight again.

We've had guests come stay at our house for up to a week.

My daughter's therapist has said she has cptsd, and is on the verge of it becoming hardwired into her health, and she's encouraged our daughter to go no contact for 1-2 years to let these symptoms subside.

I was at a friend's place helping him measure and order materials for the roof of his garage. My oldest called and met me there on his way home from work. He's an Army reservist now, and a union construction worker. He showed up with McDonald's for all of us, and my buddy's wife stood on the step in front of my son (he's a big, big guy). She brushed his shoulders off, and complimented him on how good he looked in his uniform, talked about how proud they were of him, talked about watching him grow up from a little boy in their yard to the big young man he is now, and how happy they were that their son was his best friend. She hugged him and rocked him like a momma bear. In that moment I felt so much anger, because he should have had that at home.

And you know what? I still find it hard to trust the evidence. I still question if it was her, or me, or us that was toxic. I still doubt myself so much. I still long for my wife. We had a huge rainstorm the other night, and all I wanted was a little spoon I could put my arm around and to smell her hair.


Thanks for letting me talk.

RDMercer

I admire so much your skill and dedication in nurturing and healing! ❤️

Can I tell you something I thought was funny?

My son was dating a girl that really was not good for him. He saw that, and broke up with her.

A month later it started.... "I don't want to be on dating apps. How else do people meet each other? I'm not in school. Like.... Am I going to find a girlfriend again?"

So, I talked to him, and I explained..... "You are a big, strong, good looking kid. You competed at a national level in your sport. You look darn good in a uniform, and you are working towards a union construction trade. Just wait. They'll find YOU. Just wait."

Six weeks later, the texts began flooding in...... "Oh my gosh. I just heard about you guys. Are you OK? Did you need to talk? I can pick you up. We can just drive, and get a coffee. I can be here for you.. Do you want to just sit and watch a movie together? Can I bring you something to eat? What do you like?"

RDMercer

I know it's a tedious task, but go back to your old threads and re-read the evidence there.

The way you speak of your life now vs you life then is like night & day. I can hear the happiness pouring out today and all the joy that you are experiencing with your family and newfound life without your ex wife.

If you re-read your old threads, you will see the toxicity. Your posts about your life with your wife were full of angst, exhaustion, bad feelings, guilt, pain, and anguish. That's all you talked about... how much pain and anguish you were in. She was running you dry.. you were empty, depleted, and in so much pain.

And now? It's the opposite! This post was a sheer joy to read, until the very end.

It can take a. long time to get past those feelings, but the more you ground yourself in the reality of her and your life with her, the better off you will be.

I am very happy for you - you are not only a great father, but your kids seems to. be thriving now in a life without her. This is very important for them, and for you!!!

The kids are doing way, way better.

I'm a good dad. That job, that role, that responsibility matters to me. My daughter has, I believe, a learning disability related to math. I think she is dysgraphic. Sitting and working with her matters. Caring for her matters. Because I don't have all the answers for her, I've taken her to a teen sexual health clinic several times now to ask questions. She isn't sexually active, but I want to make sure she's safe.

My son can do brakes, steering, suspension, and bearing work as good as any mechanic now. As for getting stuck and getting out, he understands tow ratings, hitch ratings, how to find the rated strength of tow straps, slings, and shackles, and how to account for shock loads. I was his coach in his sport for a long time and now is often asked to be a fitness leader doing drills with the Reserves. He's pursuing a technical trade in the military so this skill set for him is quite different.

I'm very up-front with them too. I tell them, I'm the only coach they will ever have who knows them intimately. I've said, I'm watching for learned and innate things they've gotten from their mom. Accountability matters, being empathetic matters, owning mistakes and accepting responsibility matters, covering over mistakes to maintain a facade is WRONG, face it and do better, and you'll be stronger.

I'm a good dad. I never understood, but I thought that *should* have had some effect on how my wife regarded me, and even her attraction to me. I felt like in a different relationship it would have.


The more I learn, the more I know she was a covert narcissist. We were each given an assessment scale for covert narcissistic traits. We each scored 47/50, and each agreed on the same three points.

My wife is a beautiful woman, who CONSTANTLY sought compliments through negging herself.

I think being on dating apps and seeking that superficial validation with no responsibilities, and being able to constantly spin the victim story will work well for her.

RDMercer

My son has big plans and big dreams for the future. I've told him...

"Do you know what will change that? A pregnancy. Be careful. But IF that happens, you have a place with me wherever I am, even if that means it's you, girlfriend, and a baby. You're part of the plan and you aren't alone. BUT DON'T GET HER PREGNANT."

Your wife also developed alcohol abuse disorder where she chooses to drink and binge drink and go to clubs looking for drama and attention. AUD is a very narcissistic disorder and very unhealthy for you and your children to be around. People with this problem experience many failed relationships and notoriously play the victim.

It’s best for you and your children to completely distance from your wife who had become too toxic to have in your environment.

I am glad to hear that you are doing better and so are your kids. It’s great to hear. And you are doing what s good parent needs to do. Your wife’s lack of interest in her children is so telling

Now I know you didn’t ask, but may I suggest if you suspect your daughter has learning disability speak to her teachers and a counselor. Not every struggling student has a disability, but if she does, she might greatly benefit from the help she could get. I’d ask her school what they noticed, if anything.

I'm on it.

This is so hard. I adored my wife, and I know I said on here repeatedly that I believed she gave us 110% of everything she could give us and that she was just past her limits every day.

Well.... WTH??

Where is she now as a parent?

I know I poured my angst and longing for her out on this forum, but this was the only place to go. I couldn't financially, or by time, afford regular counselling.

While I don't bash her at home, the kids NEED to be validated that she messed up, and that they don't deserve to be discarded.

My few interactions with her it really seems like in her mind she's wronged and she is going to seek revenge by financially ruining me.

Something that is telling is that we lock and latch the door when home during the day. If we see a figure at the door, like an Amazon driver, we freeze.... Everyone is just on eggshells waiting for her to show up again and cause drama and emotional pain.

Your children DO NOT need to be validated by that person. You do that. She is incapable.

that is very telling. As bad as it is to have that kind of trauma, at least with as far as you all have come, you'll never accept going back to a place like that again.

Validating the kids experiences is important to break any generational trauma patterns. IME, sometimes they need guidance to understand what was okay and what wasn't, and why. And that it has nothing to do with who they are. It sounds like you're doing that kind of reality check with them, which is far different than insulting or demeaning her. Guessing her absence speaks volumes to them.

It's sad how much of what you did came from a place of giving and understanding, and now it seems like she was just taking full advantage those good hearted traits.

Just remember threats to destroy you financially are just that.....threats. the judge has final say & obviously since she doesn't have the kids, she gets basically nothing from you since she is quite capable of being on her own (she left you) & supporting herself. Idle threats to scare or wear you down.

Yea, my ex told me he wouldn't give me things in the divorce I wanted to file for. At that time I wasn't mentally in a place to fight so I just left & moved 2100 miles away. He wanted things he got them, I got my sanity & freedom. He didn't win & he lost the house. Threats can turn into really bad situations for them.

Just catching up on this thread.

Agree with others, you are doing a great job. Yes, it's normal to have doubts but with time, these will be reconciled. Remember, you can't do everything yourself. Your daughter's school will help with her problem.

Teaching your kids a moral code is always good!

As for the kids being validated by their mom..... I think that is important, but it's not going to happen. That is what accelerated our demise, in part. I said repeatedly that she couldn't deny the kids' experiences or invalidate that they happened. I said, I trust things happened due to mental health and physical illness and I'm not looking for an apology, but she had to speak to the kids and go to counselling with them and acknowledge that these things occurred.. She refused.

Times the kids pleaded with her about their emotional needs and angst until they were in tears she never waivered; everything was my fault.

So, like Armorplate said, I'm not cussing her out, bashing her to the kids, nothing. But I'm clear with the kids, "You deserved better than you got. You didn't deserve this." And of course they are also validated by me wanting to have time with them.

I drove my daughter to school this morning. She asked if we can workout together tonight; weights and boxing, and she asked if we can go to a car show tomorrow night.

As for ruining me financially..... Yes, she threatened divorce regularly and told me repeatedly how much she was going to take from me. She told me how much her new friends were getting in settlments and that she was getting that much or more.

Over time, it became ridiculous.... She was taking half the house, half my investments, and half my pay until I retired. When I retired she was going to take half my pension income until I died. She was going to have the court force me to leave my job and work remote construction projects where you make big money living in camps. That was stuff she was telling me six months BEFORE we separated. At that time I begged her to stop, said she was listening to people who weren't looking out for her, and to please commit to peace with the kids and family counselling. Now she's still going to take all this, and she's going to sue me for not settling quickly.

There won't be a quick settlement. Basically, we aren't a priority to the family court. The kids are safe, stable, no addiction, no abuse..... Nothing.

If I don't agree to her terms, she has to force it to court for a settlement. That will take another 1.5 to 2 years, because we are such a low priority, in an area with a lot of high priority cases. At which point, she will have to accept that she owes child support, carrying costs and maintenance for the house and our loans, and post secondary costs for the kids. When she is confronted with that i don't know what will happen.

So, I don't know what is ahead.

Money is CRAZY tight, but my son is helping with some expenses and I got a PT side job I'm starting next month.

And.... Did you notice I stopped talking about the new lady that entered my life? She's smart, attractive as heck and just way too.... intense. I'm fine leaving that for coffee and as a work connection, maybe indefinitely.

I'm a good Dad. I'm as regular as the sunrise and as solid as bedrock, and I enjoy my kids, and I enjoy teaching and learning with them.

RDMercer