[magicalprince]

I somehow still can't find the anger.

I don't know how to EXPRESS any anger because even if I was aware of having anger, my ex T is avoiding me and I tried everything I could to establish a line of communication and that was not reciprocated. She made every effort to not have to talk to me whatsoever. So it's like, whatever, it's completely totally done absolutely. Period. I accepted that.

I am recognizing that I have internalized my anger towards myself rather than pointing it towards my ex T. So there is anger but I mostly feel angry at myself for being vulnerable and thusly allowing her to abandon me. I think she avoided me because she does not want to have to confront the fact that I could be angry due to her exploitation of my vulnerability and rejection of my need for healthy dependency.

These last few years have effed with my head SO much. I have been acting completely crazy and not like myself at all. I lost so much time. I have been suffering from a lot of physical symptoms and suffering and discomfort instead of feeling my emotions. I have wanted life to just go away and stop bothering me. I have just been weird and I've been driving people away and I simultaneously hated myself for it but also couldn't get back to normal.

Honestly I don't think I even find her attractive anymore. I think I was getting very confused from transference. I think I was not myself.

I think I deserve to be angry I just don't really know what that feels like.

[Noonelistens]

I know how you feel I honestly do I couldn't even keep the girl that I was with.
I had a girl and it was going great for an online relationship we were loving through and through.But my flaw is that I was a very angry man and she had depression and we knew how to push each other's buttons. But her she was the devil incarnate she got jealous on a daily basis I couldn't even go see my family and kids she would get mad at me even for going to groceries she'd time me she brought a friend into it and she started to change she started to attack me and so did her friend soon I left her found all she wanted was my money according to her friend so I bailed she wasn't attractive to me anymore.
Her friend got mad cause I yelled at her cause she started doing what my ex-did and Started to manipulate me she called my yelling at her abuse and she left
I met a new girl and she was kind of paranoid of me we dated for a year and then it stopped totally her mom loved me she didn't like me cause I was making her get out of the paranoia state to move on with her life she told me that her mom hated me cause I had mental problems and I knew that was a lie I let her go.
I met another woman now we had a fight .... wait no she had the fight I stood there and took it with a grain of salt. But she refused to talk to me. so I left it on that and moved on.
I met another person a girl that wants to be a guy we hung out and drew on our computers together. But then he started to lie and I knew they were lies cause I knew him for 5 years he told me he was 14 when he met me it was only 5-6 years since I saw him last and he told me he was 25 and since he's 25 I can be with him since I'm 37 and I did the math and knew that he was only 18-19 years old and then he continued to tell me that he was on a plane and a bomb went off and he saw people sucked out the plane and people exploding. I knew that was a lie I asked him about it and then he told me he was in the airport its funny how everyone had shrapnel scars that were in the building even the ones not close to the bombs and he didn't I looked it up all the survivors had sores and scars, I thought I'm not going to get the truth so I ignored that he said I was lying about my gender and that he can't stay with me anyway cause he wants to be selfish but I later found out that my exes friend had contacted him and told him I abused her and then he started to tell everyone on my list that he had on his list that he dated me ( he was never on) and had cyber(never did) with me and that I was a faker he also let his mom log in on his skype on her phone to watch our convos.

SO the other girl I mentioned earlier that stopped talking to me contacts me and asks me about what he typed to her on email, I remembered I still had the liars BF on my computer and asked him about the little jerk he said that he was still with him and I realized I was just a guy with a shoulder to cry on when convenient

Now I and the girl who said she wasn't talking to me are back together I understand whats going on in your life and every other bad relationship LOL
But I'm very angry and depressed and they who once seemed attractive to me they are not anymore and that the problem is that the angrier we get at some one the less they start to look less like super models and more like devils with horns
I express my anger in intense quiet or seething. When I'm angry I prefer to be alone Listening to music helps. don't punish yourself, Honey, it doesn't help it just wracks up anger and depression more than it has from my experience I grew as a person. take it as a learning experience never blame yourself Its the worst you can do

[magicalprince]

@noonelistens

sorry but honestly I don't relate to that at all

[magicalprince]

honestly I think I am just gay. fml. :|

[StickyTwig]

A couple of thoughts:

Can you try writing ex-T an unsent letter about how she failed you? Just getting your thoughts down on paper can sometimes help experience the anger.

Is your ex-T in your thoughts a lot, like every day? If so you need to change that situation because as you say, it cant be good for your health and current relationships to stay stuck in the past so much.
Perhaps you could see all the time you are losing as an opportunity to embark on a new hobby or project? Or, in other words a good aspect about the situation is that at least it shows you have a lot of energy to invest, can you find a way of redirecting that energy into something healthier?

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by StickyTwig

A couple of thoughts:

Can you try writing ex-T an unsent letter about how she failed you? Just getting your thoughts down on paper can sometimes help experience the anger.

Is your ex-T in your thoughts a lot, like every day? If so you need to change that situation because as you say, it cant be good for your health and current relationships to stay stuck in the past so much.
Perhaps you could see all the time you are losing as an opportunity to embark on a new hobby or project? Or, in other words a good aspect about the situation is that at least it shows you have a lot of energy to invest, can you find a way of redirecting that energy into something healthier?

Thanks for the suggestions StickyTwig

I have tried to write her unsent letters multiple times and it seemed to just make me feel more like none of what happened made ANY sense. I always get sucked into this cycle of questioning why she acted the way she did and why she did a 180 so fast. I have been trying to make up closure for myself and honestly I can't. There's no closure.

But, I have not been myself. Somewhere in the process (post-abandonment) I lost all my feelings and became a zombie. It's horrible. Then I started feeling physically ill every time I thought about her, getting headaches so bad my vision would go blurry, but the thoughts were compulsive for a very long time and I felt hostage in my own mind and body, like she had taken it over and there wasn't any room left for me. I was attached and couldn't get her out of me.

I would LOVE to harness this energy for something remotely productive, instead of throwing it away on the dysfunctional past. I don't make any attempts to think about her anymore. Fortunately within the last month or so, many days I do not think about her at all. I would love to redirect this energy elsewhere if I knew how.

I miss my creativity a lot. I miss my feelings. I miss reality. I feel like an idiot for how long I let this persist and how defensive I was of a self-destructive relationship I have been acting totally idiotic. Ugh.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by StickyTwig

Is your ex-T in your thoughts a lot, like every day? If so you need to change that situation because as you say, it cant be good for your health and current relationships to stay stuck in the past so much.

That assumes it's voluntary. I am stuck in a similar loop as a result of toxic therapy. It ain't voluntary. The brain will ruminate as it pleases. Especially if some survival need is threatened, which seems often the case in therapy. Therapy is a dirty business.

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by BudFox

That assumes it's voluntary. I am stuck in a similar loop as a result of toxic therapy. It ain't voluntary. The brain will ruminate as it pleases. Especially if some survival need is threatened, which seems often the case in therapy. Therapy is a dirty business.

I have also experienced it being involuntary. It sort of fills whatever space in your day that you leave for it to fill.

When it was first starting out, I used to just be myself in therapy, no different than I was in the rest of my life, albeit amidst a great deal of anxiety about seeking help. Well, she identified with me, enjoyed being with me and became very over-involved with me. Emotionally, we were so close that it was impossible to identify any boundaries between us. That also created the desire to be physically close, have warmth and affection and be inseparable.

However I began to realize that I had not come to therapy just to be close with someone, I came to therapy to get help for my problems. I tried to get her to help me with my problems. And she couldn't do it. Eventually she felt guilty that she couldn't help me with my problems, and resented my insistence that she help me, and she refused to see me anymore or speak to me in any capacity.

But the emotional bond between us had never even changed. I still had all the desire for closeness and affection and warmth. So it was factually the case that she had allowed us to be close as long as I not only paid her money each week, but also did not expect her or pressure her to be able to help with my problems or provide any services. By which I mean, she would not allow me to say my feelings. IF I said my feelings, she would punish me with withdrawal or ultimately abandonment. So I was conditioned to be emotionally dependent on our closeness and then had my dependency leveraged against me when I try to put words to it.

What I didn't understand was that, even if I knew she was irresponsible and even if I chose not to recognize or respect her as an authority figure, my emotions had still become conditioned as such. My emotions still reacted to other authority figures in the same way they were conditioned to react to her... AKA, fearing that I would be thrown out and denied service if I expected them to perform any of their professional duties. Fearing that my needs were totally unimportant and I was totally expendable.

Another consequence of that conditioning was the feeling that I would not be loved or cared about by anyone unless I 100% sacrificed my needs. So I began avoiding people in general to spare myself the feeling of being unloved. I became isolated.

Because of that emotional conditioning, I was unable to seek help after that therapy ended. I believed emotionally that to seek help would cause me to be used up and abandoned again. So after therapy I sat there needing help, every day of my life, and unable to seek that help. This was a very bad place for me and for a long time I was constantly in pain, constantly an inch away from suicide, though even that felt too selfish of me.

It didn't matter whether I thought about her or didn't think about her. Because the point is, I was stuck and in pain and I could not seek help for it without opposing an EXTREME inner dissonance. And the SITUATION was caused by the conditioning I experienced in my relationship to her, but my inability to seek further help was what preserved that conditioning, it didn't require me to think about her at all. The pain was a reminder of her. The pain WAS her. She was not just in my thoughts, she was in my body and my soul which were rapidly dying because of what I experienced as a result of my relationship to her.

I am trying VERY hard to begin to act as if my needs matter and to make attempts to get my needs met. But it is VERY HARD because my emotions have been hardwired to resist and evade any kind of support or help. WHen I try to utilize professional services, I'm BOMBARDED with fears of all the ways I may be exploited, taken advantage of, betrayed, held captive, denied, punished, stolen from, etc. I have developed extreme fears and avoidance of needing others and an extreme distrust toward authority and professional responsibility. That is her footprint in my life whether or not I think about her at all anymore.

And even when I think about friendship or companionship, I'm bombarded with fears that I am unlovable, unwanted, not cared about, inconsequential, worthless.

I know it doesn't have to be that way but that conditioning kept getting reinforced for like four years. It became VERY strong and extremely hard to oppose. I hate that this happened to me. I deserved so much better than this and it hurts so much. I feel so broken.

So yes, I am terrified of therapy in principle because of the sheer invisibility of the harm as it takes place. If a repairman fails to fix your car, there is obvious evidence of it. If a surgeon botches a surgery, it is obvious. If a restaurant serves moldy food, it is obvious. If a hairdresser slips and cuts your ear off, it is obvious.

If a therapist exploits you, there is not necessarily any evidence. Nothing material that you can show people so they will understand your complaints are legitimate... because the damage is done directly to your SOUL. Your essence.

There is no concrete product of therapy. The service being rendered is a completely subjective experience. As long as your therapist does not exploit the treatment setting in OBVIOUS ways, they can exploit you in any number of covert ways and in doing so, they are COMPLETELY above reproach. Untouchable. It just so happens that my therapist was the type of therapist who dedicated all her energy into being untouchable and beyond reproach. Performing, on the surface, the motions of therapy, with absolutely no acknowledgement of the individuality and the individual needs and feelings of her clients. Literally just doing a performance and not providing a service, yet calling it a service, insisting that it is a service and billing it as a service. It leaves no evidence of abuse, other than the gradual worsening of her client's ability to function, which can easily be blamed on her client and not on her own efforts.

This situation could never have happened to me so invisibly and covertly if it were any other profession. It terrifies me.

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by magicalprince

I have also experienced it being involuntary. It sort of fills whatever space in your day that you leave for it to fill.

When it was first starting out, I used to just be myself in therapy, no different than I was in the rest of my life, albeit amidst a great deal of anxiety about seeking help. Well, she identified with me, enjoyed being with me and became very over-involved with me. Emotionally, we were so close that it was impossible to identify any boundaries between us. That also created the desire to be physically close, have warmth and affection and be inseparable.

However I began to realize that I had not come to therapy just to be close with someone, I came to therapy to get help for my problems. I tried to get her to help me with my problems. And she couldn't do it. Eventually she felt guilty that she couldn't help me with my problems, and resented my insistence that she help me, and she refused to see me anymore or speak to me in any capacity.

But the emotional bond between us had never even changed. I still had all the desire for closeness and affection and warmth. So it was factually the case that she had allowed us to be close as long as I not only paid her money each week, but also did not expect her or pressure her to be able to help with my problems or provide any services. By which I mean, she would not allow me to say my feelings. IF I said my feelings, she would punish me with withdrawal or ultimately abandonment. So I was conditioned to be emotionally dependent on our closeness and then had my dependency leveraged against me when I try to put words to it.

What I didn't understand was that, even if I knew she was irresponsible and even if I chose not to recognize or respect her as an authority figure, my emotions had still become conditioned as such. My emotions still reacted to other authority figures in the same way they were conditioned to react to her... AKA, fearing that I would be thrown out and denied service if I expected them to perform any of their professional duties. Fearing that my needs were totally unimportant and I was totally expendable.

Another consequence of that conditioning was the feeling that I would not be loved or cared about by anyone unless I 100% sacrificed my needs. So I began avoiding people in general to spare myself the feeling of being unloved. I became isolated.

Because of that emotional conditioning, I was unable to seek help after that therapy ended. I believed emotionally that to seek help would cause me to be used up and abandoned again. So after therapy I sat there needing help, every day of my life, and unable to seek that help. This was a very bad place for me and for a long time I was constantly in pain, constantly an inch away from suicide, though even that felt too selfish of me.

It didn't matter whether I thought about her or didn't think about her. Because the point is, I was stuck and in pain and I could not seek help for it without opposing an EXTREME inner dissonance. And the SITUATION was caused by the conditioning I experienced in my relationship to her, but my inability to seek further help was what preserved that conditioning, it didn't require me to think about her at all. The pain was a reminder of her. The pain WAS her. She was not just in my thoughts, she was in my body and my soul which were rapidly dying because of what I experienced as a result of my relationship to her.

I am trying VERY hard to begin to act as if my needs matter and to make attempts to get my needs met. But it is VERY HARD because my emotions have been hardwired to resist and evade any kind of support or help. WHen I try to utilize professional services, I'm BOMBARDED with fears of all the ways I may be exploited, taken advantage of, betrayed, held captive, denied, punished, stolen from, etc. I have developed extreme fears and avoidance of needing others and an extreme distrust toward authority and professional responsibility. That is her footprint in my life whether or not I think about her at all anymore.

And even when I think about friendship or companionship, I'm bombarded with fears that I am unlovable, unwanted, not cared about, inconsequential, worthless.

I know it doesn't have to be that way but that conditioning kept getting reinforced for like four years. It became VERY strong and extremely hard to oppose. I hate that this happened to me. I deserved so much better than this and it hurts so much. I feel so broken.

So yes, I am terrified of therapy in principle because of the sheer invisibility of the harm as it takes place. If a repairman fails to fix your car, there is obvious evidence of it. If a surgeon botches a surgery, it is obvious. If a restaurant serves moldy food, it is obvious. If a hairdresser slips and cuts your ear off, it is obvious.

If a therapist exploits you, there is not necessarily any evidence. Nothing material that you can show people so they will understand your complaints are legitimate... because the damage is done directly to your SOUL. Your essence.

There is no concrete product of therapy. The service being rendered is a completely subjective experience. As long as your therapist does not exploit the treatment setting in OBVIOUS ways, they can exploit you in any number of covert ways and in doing so, they are COMPLETELY above reproach. Untouchable. It just so happens that my therapist was the type of therapist who dedicated all her energy into being untouchable and beyond reproach. Performing, on the surface, the motions of therapy, with absolutely no acknowledgement of the individuality and the individual needs and feelings of her clients. Literally just doing a performance and not providing a service, yet calling it a service, insisting that it is a service and billing it as a service. It leaves no evidence of abuse, other than the gradual worsening of her client's ability to function, which can easily be blamed on her client and not on her own efforts.

This situation could never have happened to me so invisibly and covertly if it were any other profession. It terrifies me.

She hurt you TERRIBLY. is there any way you can send her a letter telling her how badly she hurt you? You probably won't hear back from her but you can at least know you said what you needed to say and tell her that you're still feeling the effects of her incompetence and exploitation.

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by ramonajones

She hurt you TERRIBLY. is there any way you can send her a letter telling her how badly she hurt you? You probably won't hear back from her but you can at least know you said what you needed to say and tell her that you're still feeling the effects of her incompetence and exploitation.

Thanks Ramona. Essentially yes, I would like to send a letter. But I have a feeling that even if I sent her something, at this point she wouldn't even open it. It hurts so much. I would like to be heard, but more than that, I wish she cared enough to want to hear me. I wish she had felt guilty for what she did to me and wanted to correct it.

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by magicalprince

I have also experienced it being involuntary. It sort of fills whatever space in your day that you leave for it to fill.

When it was first starting out, I used to just be myself in therapy, no different than I was in the rest of my life, albeit amidst a great deal of anxiety about seeking help. Well, she identified with me, enjoyed being with me and became very over-involved with me. Emotionally, we were so close that it was impossible to identify any boundaries between us. That also created the desire to be physically close, have warmth and affection and be inseparable.

However I began to realize that I had not come to therapy just to be close with someone, I came to therapy to get help for my problems. I tried to get her to help me with my problems. And she couldn't do it. Eventually she felt guilty that she couldn't help me with my problems, and resented my insistence that she help me, and she refused to see me anymore or speak to me in any capacity.

But the emotional bond between us had never even changed. I still had all the desire for closeness and affection and warmth. So it was factually the case that she had allowed us to be close as long as I not only paid her money each week, but also did not expect her or pressure her to be able to help with my problems or provide any services. By which I mean, she would not allow me to say my feelings. IF I said my feelings, she would punish me with withdrawal or ultimately abandonment. So I was conditioned to be emotionally dependent on our closeness and then had my dependency leveraged against me when I try to put words to it.

What I didn't understand was that, even if I knew she was irresponsible and even if I chose not to recognize or respect her as an authority figure, my emotions had still become conditioned as such. My emotions still reacted to other authority figures in the same way they were conditioned to react to her... AKA, fearing that I would be thrown out and denied service if I expected them to perform any of their professional duties. Fearing that my needs were totally unimportant and I was totally expendable.

Another consequence of that conditioning was the feeling that I would not be loved or cared about by anyone unless I 100% sacrificed my needs. So I began avoiding people in general to spare myself the feeling of being unloved. I became isolated.

Because of that emotional conditioning, I was unable to seek help after that therapy ended. I believed emotionally that to seek help would cause me to be used up and abandoned again. So after therapy I sat there needing help, every day of my life, and unable to seek that help. This was a very bad place for me and for a long time I was constantly in pain, constantly an inch away from suicide, though even that felt too selfish of me.

It didn't matter whether I thought about her or didn't think about her. Because the point is, I was stuck and in pain and I could not seek help for it without opposing an EXTREME inner dissonance. And the SITUATION was caused by the conditioning I experienced in my relationship to her, but my inability to seek further help was what preserved that conditioning, it didn't require me to think about her at all. The pain was a reminder of her. The pain WAS her. She was not just in my thoughts, she was in my body and my soul which were rapidly dying because of what I experienced as a result of my relationship to her.

I am trying VERY hard to begin to act as if my needs matter and to make attempts to get my needs met. But it is VERY HARD because my emotions have been hardwired to resist and evade any kind of support or help. WHen I try to utilize professional services, I'm BOMBARDED with fears of all the ways I may be exploited, taken advantage of, betrayed, held captive, denied, punished, stolen from, etc. I have developed extreme fears and avoidance of needing others and an extreme distrust toward authority and professional responsibility. That is her footprint in my life whether or not I think about her at all anymore.

And even when I think about friendship or companionship, I'm bombarded with fears that I am unlovable, unwanted, not cared about, inconsequential, worthless.

I know it doesn't have to be that way but that conditioning kept getting reinforced for like four years. It became VERY strong and extremely hard to oppose. I hate that this happened to me. I deserved so much better than this and it hurts so much. I feel so broken.

So yes, I am terrified of therapy in principle because of the sheer invisibility of the harm as it takes place. If a repairman fails to fix your car, there is obvious evidence of it. If a surgeon botches a surgery, it is obvious. If a restaurant serves moldy food, it is obvious. If a hairdresser slips and cuts your ear off, it is obvious.

If a therapist exploits you, there is not necessarily any evidence. Nothing material that you can show people so they will understand your complaints are legitimate... because the damage is done directly to your SOUL. Your essence.

There is no concrete product of therapy. The service being rendered is a completely subjective experience. As long as your therapist does not exploit the treatment setting in OBVIOUS ways, they can exploit you in any number of covert ways and in doing so, they are COMPLETELY above reproach. Untouchable. It just so happens that my therapist was the type of therapist who dedicated all her energy into being untouchable and beyond reproach. Performing, on the surface, the motions of therapy, with absolutely no acknowledgement of the individuality and the individual needs and feelings of her clients. Literally just doing a performance and not providing a service, yet calling it a service, insisting that it is a service and billing it as a service. It leaves no evidence of abuse, other than the gradual worsening of her client's ability to function, which can easily be blamed on her client and not on her own efforts.

This situation could never have happened to me so invisibly and covertly if it were any other profession. It terrifies me.

Originally Posted by magicalprince

Thanks Ramona. Essentially yes, I would like to send a letter. But I have a feeling that even if I sent her something, at this point she wouldn't even open it. It hurts so much. I would like to be heard, but more than that, I wish she cared enough to want to hear me. I wish she had felt guilty for what she did to me and wanted to correct it.

Terrible.

[AllHeart]

Originally Posted by magicalprince

Thanks Ramona. Essentially yes, I would like to send a letter. But I have a feeling that even if I sent her something, at this point she wouldn't even open it. It hurts so much. I would like to be heard, but more than that, I wish she cared enough to want to hear me. I wish she had felt guilty for what she did to me and wanted to correct it.

That's absolutely reckless. I find this to be the most painful part of such a devastating situation. It's something I will never be able to wrap my head around. How a therapist, of all people, can devalue and dismiss a human being that is their client like that is beyond reprehensible to me.

In my case, it makes sense to me that my ex-therapist friend had too much deep pain of her own already. To have to look at her significant wrongdoings and incompetence would cause her more pain and she can't handle that. So she had to hurt me deeply in order to avoid creating further pain for herself. If she were just a friend, I could understand this and move on. But, because she is an experienced therapist, I cannot understand this. To have no remorse, take no accountability, no desire to try to correct her egregious mistakes --and knowing the intense damage she would cause me quite frankly scares the shiit out of me.

I am actually writing ex-t a letter right now. I have already found some relief in the process. It feels like some of this anger and hurt gets released through pen and paper. I debate whether or not to send it when done. I have to further examine my intentions for doing so. Right now it's more to provoke a response that I know I won't get over gaining a piece of closure for myself. I'm also trying to finish up writing the report on her too. Who knows what I'll end up sending off when everything is done. But, I do find the writing process helps provide me with some healing regardless.

[BudFox]

Sounds like emotional blackmail.

So if you are conscious of the conditioning, but it persists, then by what mechanism? I also have a sense of having been conditioned by the experience, but I find it hard to verbalize specifically what that means.

Not only is the product of therapy intangible, but the damage done is very hard to pin down. If someone were incredulous and wanted to know just what you mean by harm, and you said you were conditioned emotionally, I suspect most people would not get it or buy it or even care.

I think some form of dysregulation is always part of it. And maybe some brain circuitry has been altered through repetitive experience. Or maybe just psychological distress that is self-perpetuating.

I also feel that my therapist is inside my body. Apparently people tend to store trauma and stress in their viscera. So yea, I think for me the experience lives on in my guts. That feeling of anguish.

Therapy is set up to generate abuse. Everything happens in seclusion. Clients are encouraged to keep things private. Stay off the Internet forums. All concerns should be raised with the therapist. What happens in therapy stays in therapy.

[Tried2long]

Originally Posted by BudFox

That assumes it's voluntary. I am stuck in a similar loop as a result of toxic therapy. It ain't voluntary. The brain will ruminate as it pleases. Especially if some survival need is threatened, which seems often the case in therapy. Therapy is a dirty business.

It's only as dirty as the therapist you are seeing.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I also have a sense of having been conditioned by the experience, but I find it hard to verbalize specifically what that means.

Not only is the product of therapy intangible, but the damage done is very hard to pin down. If someone were incredulous and wanted to know just what you mean by harm, and you said you were conditioned emotionally, I suspect most people would not get it or buy it or even care.

I think some form of dysregulation is always part of it. And maybe some brain circuitry has been altered through repetitive experience. Or maybe just psychological distress that is self-perpetuating.

I also feel that my therapist is inside my body. Apparently people tend to store trauma and stress in their viscera. So yea, I think for me the experience lives on in my guts. That feeling of anguish.

very well said Budfox...i couldn't agree more. and this is one reason why it is so difficult for those of us who have suffered like this, or even been re-traumatized, to find help or support to recover from this. because the needs of our harmful Ts took precedence to the therapy service they were suppose to deliver, others (including those in the profession) have no idea or understanding to the depths of the damage it can cause...and in some instances, they may not even believe it is possible (or are in complete denial and it is easier to blame the client).

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

That's absolutely reckless. I find this to be the most painful part of such a devastating situation. It's something I will never be able to wrap my head around. How a therapist, of all people, can devalue and dismiss a human being that is their client like that is beyond reprehensible to me.

In my case, it makes sense to me that my ex-therapist friend had too much deep pain of her own already. To have to look at her significant wrongdoings and incompetence would cause her more pain and she can't handle that. So she had to hurt me deeply in order to avoid creating further pain for herself. If she were just a friend, I could understand this and move on. But, because she is an experienced therapist, I cannot understand this. To have no remorse, take no accountability, no desire to try to correct her egregious mistakes --and knowing the intense damage she would cause me quite frankly scares the shiit out of me.

I am actually writing ex-t a letter right now. I have already found some relief in the process. It feels like some of this anger and hurt gets released through pen and paper. I debate whether or not to send it when done. I have to further examine my intentions for doing so. Right now it's more to provoke a response that I know I won't get over gaining a piece of closure for myself. I'm also trying to finish up writing the report on her too. Who knows what I'll end up sending off when everything is done. But, I do find the writing process helps provide me with some healing regardless.

Yeah, it scares me too...

In some of our emotional conversations that led up to termination, she even admitted that she needed help, needed her own therapy (specifically for the stuff within our relationship,) but said she knew how hard that kind of work was and said that she wouldn't do it in the foreseeable future because she's too busy in her life.

But she continued seeing clients.

It's like if a restaurant knew there was mold in all the food and served it anyway. It's the most frustrating thing to me. I gave her so many chances to do the right thing and improve and she refused to take responsibility for herself. It's frustrating because I somehow really believed she was better than that and would try to change. And like you said, it's her job to be all about that kind of change. She accepts payment to do that very thing. It's ridiculous and it makes me feel like I was stupid to have trusted that she had a functioning conscience.

That is wonderful that you're finding some relief just writing a letter. I think I used to write her unsent letters that only made it worse because I was trying to make sense of her behavior and the truth is it just didn't make sense. It was crazymaking. But it does help to write from the perspective of just how it made me feel.

Best of luck with your decision as far as reporting goes.

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Sounds like emotional blackmail.

So if you are conscious of the conditioning, but it persists, then by what mechanism? I also have a sense of having been conditioned by the experience, but I find it hard to verbalize specifically what that means.

Not only is the product of therapy intangible, but the damage done is very hard to pin down. If someone were incredulous and wanted to know just what you mean by harm, and you said you were conditioned emotionally, I suspect most people would not get it or buy it or even care.

I think some form of dysregulation is always part of it. And maybe some brain circuitry has been altered through repetitive experience. Or maybe just psychological distress that is self-perpetuating.

I also feel that my therapist is inside my body. Apparently people tend to store trauma and stress in their viscera. So yea, I think for me the experience lives on in my guts. That feeling of anguish.

Therapy is set up to generate abuse. Everything happens in seclusion. Clients are encouraged to keep things private. Stay off the Internet forums. All concerns should be raised with the therapist. What happens in therapy stays in therapy.

I think it's a few things:

There's the expectation of what an experience will be like, the imagery as you anticipate the experience, then there's the experience itself, and then after the fact, there's the rationalization of the experience, as you reflect on what it meant.

All of those stages can modify your emotional conditioning.

My final attempt at contacting her, something was clearly released from, as you said, my "viscera" because I had a severe panic attack that lasted for the better part of an entire day. Since she started treating me practically like a stalker post-termination, just because I tried to communicate with her, then emotionally I kept feeling like some kind of catastrophe was going to happen if I contacted her again. I don't know, it wasn't realistic. But it definitely played into my issues from growing up with a sociopathic mother.

So ultimately realizing that I was fine and nothing terrible happened (other than being avoided) allowed me to neutralize some of that conditioning. I have been so much more sane ever since I challenged those beliefs.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Tried2long

It's only as dirty as the therapist you are seeing.

I experienced it as a collective dirtiness. And in fact the individual therapists weren't the main problem, as most of them seemed like decent enough people from what little they revealed. It was the game they had been taught to play.