How is that choice made..

Does he point a finger at you and say "and you shall have love, respect and you will never experience hardship as a child"

Does he point at the next child and say "and you shall have nothing but unwanted touch,hunger, sickness and disrespect directed at you, and physical pain'

How does he make that choice? What makes one child more valuable than the other?

When judgement day comes, both children will be equal in the eyes of God.

My bitterness is showing today. Going thru the sleep study upset me to an unbelieveable degree. I will need to seek help somewhere. w/o therapist..

It is oddly strange - there has never been anyone in my life that has ever touched me with a gentle touch.... beside being very very unsettling - it made me realize how much I've missed in life. The sleep tech was male and very respectful - it would have been much better for me to have a female. It upset me because of all the abusers that have been in my life - I never realized that that there was anything different- better to not know because then you don't realise what you have missed - all by the the pointing of God's hand - and you will have a childhood devoid of love.

Signing off Pysch Central,
Freewill

[domino]

I'm really sorry your feeling this way freewill.
God touches people in different way I suppose. I know a couple of friends who go to church every Sunday who are very nice people and are deep believers in God. This didn't stop the guy from getting prostate cancer which was cured about a year ago but unfortunately his wife is dying from cancer. He is soooooooo strong and gives some of his time even though he know his wife is on her death bed. I"d love to be like him one day if I find myself in the same situation. Whatever happens you stand up and face it. God is not punishing you he probably just needs you beside him to help him out. I'm not sure that I would have the courage to be like this man. I saw him this week and I think I know what he is going through. When my dad was very ill I could stand to see him suffer and I prayed god to take him by his side so he would be in peace. Sortly after my prayers became reality. God excepts everyone and he doesn't choose between the good guys and the bad guys.
Maybe you don't agree with me but that's how I feel right now.
Take care

[(JD)]

<font color="gray">[b] To me, all children are important to him, and I think he gives children special graces to put up with parents!!!

All adults are given the responsibility to have it together enough to love and take care of a child. It's when the adults fail, that others such as children suffer, imo.

Sometimes we have to wait for the adult to come along and "touch" us...and I hope if you haven't found someone even here at PC, that soon IRL you will. Mine happened to be my T.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't have a horrible childhood, but being the last of 6 children, I probably could have done with more attention?

When ppl don't obey God's intentions, and His paths, they run amuck. THere is always suffering at that point, imo.

But, I do believe, like I said, that God gives children special abilities to cope ..esp when it's a time of death...or fear like that.

TC!

[jennie]

(((((((freewill))))))

[Rhapsody]

<font color="purple"> ((((((( HUGS ))))))) ~ ~ ~ ~ ((((((( HUGS ))))))) </font>

Just wanted to let you know that I do indeed understand how you are feeling on this subject, for I have asked that same question many times over... (and) this is the only answer that I have been able to come with:

God uses all things (good & bad) for our good... and that all things happen for a reason, rather we realize it at the moment, or not.

AND - that I am the kind, caring, merciful and understanding female that lives today due to the pain and suffering I endured in my childhood.... my entire past, both good and bad, helped to form the ME of today.

LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( )))

P.S.
When I am asked:
What will be the one question you will ask God when you see Him in the end?

I answer:
Why did innocennt children have to suffer at the hands of evil adults?
... and especially at the hands of adults that were supposed to love & cherish them.

[FaithisAlive]

Matthew 19:14 says" But Jesus said," Let the children come unto Me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

God didn't pick some of us to be abused or to be loved.. or to be lonely... or hurting...He sees us as gifts... and He entrusted us to earthly parents to care for us and nurture us and train us to be adults...

Some earthly parents are good at the job.. some better than others.. and some have no clue how to take care of the children they have... while still others use and abuse their children...

Please don't think that God chose for you to suffer... He isn't like that...He loves you.. truly He does..He will never let you down the way mankind will...

Praying for you to find peace of mind..and Gods love...Faith

My friend used to have this little story that he used to read when he felt that way. I shall try and remember it but I'll warn you I'm not very good with telling stories.

The notion is that...
There is this kind of universal / group / mass consciousness that we were all a part of before we were born and that we will all reunite with after we die. I think Jung believed something like this... Anyway... Maybe heaven is kinda like that or something. Then little parts of the mass consciousness break off to become embodied... Why would you choose to be born a life of misery? Maybe because... If you did then other people wouldn't have to.

Dammit. That isn't sounding so uplifting the way I tell it.

I have trouble with some of the mass consciousness stuff and choosing which body you get and co...

But the notion is that one would choose out of empathy to others and those who suffer... Are often better placed in the world to truly help other people through there suffering.

Dunno

[SeptemberMorn]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Just wanted to let you know that I do indeed understand how you are feeling on this subject, for I have asked that same question many times over... (and) this is the only answer that I have been able to come with:

God uses all things (good & bad) for our good... and that all things happen for a reason, whether [rather] we realize it at the moment, or not.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I agree 100% with what Rhap said above. Another thing that has helped me deal with my own abuse as an innocent child is the fact that my abusers were also given Free Will by God. It was THEY that chose to rape me, molest me and otherwise abuse me.

I have applied the Scripture that speaks of what Rhap said. Everything happens for a reason... or if we choose, we can use our experiences, with God's help and let Him turn them into good.

Someone help me with the Scripture passages, will you? My brain is misfiring big time tonight.

[EJ711]

I believe that gives us the experiences we will need to do the work later on in life that he wants us to do.

EJ

[(JD)]

Romans 8:28 And we KNOW that all things work together for good...

Now, with that, it doesn't necessarily mean for US, right NOW...but that in HIS perfect plan...with the higher greater perspective and knowledge... nothing will change the good that he has for us and his plan for his creation.

[SeptemberMorn]

Ok, I'm a bit confused with your explanation, Hon. It seems that maybe you don't think He works individually with each of us to turn our bad experiences/pain for the ultimate good for us?

Maybe it's just me...

Oh and BTW, I don't believe in predestination.

[AlteredState01]

It is sad to know that you believe God is responsible for all the pain and anguish of this world, but I do understand why you feel the way you feel.

I too, felt the same, until I educated myself about Him. I now understand the what and why of all this suffering and I also understand that it does not come from God, for He is incapable of such things.

Learn about Him; better yet, ask Him to help you to know Him and to understand. I did and so He did.

Altered State

[(JD)]

Oh certainly I believe He will let us see a good result, if we allow Him to show us, and look.

That verse does not mean each and every item will we see as being "good"... the death of a child is not good, to us..but of course in His way, His plan, it might be. The verse mainly refers to the Higher Perspective

Predestination is another thing. I doubt I will converse with anyone here on something with such theological depth.

- I - personally don't believe God or any higher power chooses who gets abused and who doesnt.

If there is a God or higher power - I - believe that person entity whatever may have created human beings but they also gave human beings a brain to make their own choices good and bad.

There for - I - believe it is humans who are choosing who is being abused and who isn't by the choices that they are making.

[JustAPixie]

I always think that God allows the stronger ones to go through the suffering. The Bible say that He will not allow something that we cannot handle, and maybe you were the better one to handle that situation???

The big problem comes in with freewill... choices other people made and you had to live in the mess... but He knew you could handle it.

[mlyn]

where is it in the bible that it says he will not let us go through no more than what we can handel?
oops srry maybe I should start another thread on this. I know I have heard this many years but never quoted from bible. Just wondering if anyone knows where it is stated. If I'm out of line let me know k?
mlyn

[AlteredState01]

Not out of line, mlyn. Your choice of scripture is perfect.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mlyn
where is it in the bible that it says he will not let us go through no more than what we can handel?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I believe you were looking for 1 Corinthians 10:13.

AS

[biplol]

(((frewill))) It'll be too long for me to explian what I really believe and feel, but I want you to know, there is good people as well; a few, but good. I'm here if you ever need anything ~tons of hugs from the bottom of my heart~

[moodyblu]

Since I am A Christian, I have to use the Bible as my source of inspiration.
I really don't feel that it is God's choice that we suffer...but I know God will make a way for escape for unbearable conditions. I'm sure earthly suffering is some sort of result from our original desire for "free will" in our lives.
I've stated this before...that we cannot possibly know what God has planned for us in this short lifespan. We can be spiritual occasionally...and catch momentary "glimpses" of heaven ...but we will never experience the eternal plan in our 70 odd years. I know that in my own life I have prayed for an escape..or a way out of painful life experiences and something has always happened to change the condition.
It's up to us to be concious of this change and praise God for it.
I simple love this passage in 2 Corinthians chapter 4.
Actually all of chapter 4 is enlightening...but in particular verses 16 thru 18:
"Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are NOT seen are ETERNAL."
Pray.
m.b.

I left here for a time because I felt that I was misunderstood, or that I had to give an account for what I believed...and that upset me, and I realize that I am weak in certain things....but I have been here reading here, mostly because there are those here who have encouraged me, Sky, SeptemberMorn...I asked God this question so many years ago...Why did I get so horribly abused as a child...His word says that before I was he knew me..and quite frankly, that really kicked my guts...so He knew me before the foundations of creation, yet I was abused in every way...So He knew, but could not prevent it...this spoke to my heart of a lesser God..someone who had no control..I truly do understand our free will...it resonates with my own experience as a mother...but I know that he spoke to my heart about this..I came from a seed..My mother and father were together, and then I came from their seed, not from an act of God who put me there to be abused..It was their act of intimacy...God who knows all, knew that I would be..He did not choose for me to come from them...this was an act of their sexual union...God did not sit up in heaven and say,"Yo I shall send you to Stan and Louise who will abuse you". I came from their union together...God knows all, and knew that my life would come from them..He did not put me there...He did not choose for me to be abused by them..there are things that are in order, that create us...This is not directly from Him, it is the order that He created..But he knows all and has a plan for us..At times I can still be very angry with God..I feel so rejected and ignored..I struggle with "where the heck were You?" but my faith knows that He was not twiddling his thumbs...and when my heart fails me, and I shout out to heaven, Why? I go back to my initial place of faith...that He did not create misery or suffering...that I am loved and cherished...that though my past really sucks(sorry) I know that I am now loved..though at some times I can be really pissed with God...but He understands and helps me through it...He is everything that life here on earth is not...and His heart breaks for those of us who have been so abused...He has, and continually heals me of those things that have shattered me..He is good...and man at most times is NOT...

[(JD)]

(((safe hugs to all)))

I will not minimalize anyone's experiences... but consider this: you are here discussing God and your faith. Could it be possible that had someone not suffered, that they would even acknowledge God in their life?

I was never a pragmatist as a young person. (I didn't believe the end justifies the means.) HOWEVER, I almost think God is. Now, I do think there are times that the end result is what is important, and not the method of getting there.

God sees the big picture. What is "forever" and "horrendous" for one here, might be a blip on the screen for Him...and much less horrible than something else might be. IDK, again, suffering is subjective and it's up to the sufferer to determine how badly it affected them. Their word is good enough for me.

[Dr_Cher]

Your post really touched me. I know how you feel. I have been there. I have struggled with that question in my own life and in my studies of the lives of others. It is tough to see God as Almighty on the one hand, and experience the evils of His creatures on the other. It is a paradox that is not easily contained.

That said, don't look now but... ummmm.... your nickname says it all! Freewill! Indeed, freewill explains it all. I don't believe God picked you, or me, or any other individual or group to be abused. I believe your perpetrator(s) chose you because they could.

God gave humankind freewill. The ability to choose right or wrong, good or bad. We humans, for example, can use alcohol for cleaning or preserving or whatever, OR we can use it to alter the mind and harm self / others.

Ditto, say, nuclear science -- it can be used to bring electricity to entire cities and nations AND / OR, it can be used to obliterate whole cities and nations. The freewill of mankind... specifically individuals AND / OR groups of individuals will determine how God's gifts are used.

No, Freewill, I do not believe God chose YOU to be abused. I believe God gave freewill to humankind and certain members of the human race misused their power against the Will of God to harm you. That was their choice. NOT His.

Indeed, God is almighty. And in His infinite wisdom and His might, He saw fit to provide humankind with freewill. Just as your perpetrators chose their attitude and actions, you get to choose as well. He gave YOU that right, too.

You could choose to follow in the steps of your perpetrator(s) and go against His will creating harm to self and others for selfish reasons, OR.... or... you could choose to align your will with the will of God and preserve your sanctity. Clearly you seem to prefer the latter choice.

I encourage you to see the perpetrators for the weak - among many other possible unflattering terms which could be used to describe them -individuals they are and to NOT blame God for their choices.

As they say in Texas, God, in His infinite wisdom, gave those idiots enough rope to hang themselves! Don't you go getting caught up in their rope... You've got rope of your own to manage!

As one fellow human-being to another, this is just my opinion, Freewill. I hope you find it useful.

C

[tugofwar]

Hey Freewill,



I can't pretend that I know what you've been through or what you're feeling like. I can only tell you how God has spoken to me when I've been down and depressed and feeling worthless.

One of my favorite passages in the Bible comes from 2 Corinthians 12:

Paul is talking about a thorn in the flesh that was given to him. He pleaded with the Lord three times that it would be taken away. (see verses 7 & 8). "And He [the Lord] said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (verses 9 & 10).

God has used this verse so many times to speak to my heart. When I'm feeling my weakest, God is strong enough for me. No matter what happens, God's grace is sufficient. When I can't understand what's going on, when I know I can't do anything about whatever is happening to me, I just have to trust in God and His grace to be strong enough for me--to carry me through--to be my strength.

I don't know exactly what Paul meant when he said he takes pleasure in the bad stuff. I don't think he meant that he actually enjoyed it when bad things happened. I guess that he just trusted God and knew that he was not alone in what he was going through. He knew God was with him and would give him strength. I guess that's about all anyone can do.

But it's the hardest thing to do. It means giving up control and trusting completely. That's something I dislike doing. I'm a semi-control freak and I have a very hard time trusting humans. That makes it harder to trust God. Thank the Lord that He hasn't given up on me and He's there for me even when I don't feel like He is.

I guess I've been rambling a bit. That's what happens when I take a preaching class. There goes the sermon. LOL

I hope I haven't been preaching at you. I wasn't trying, and I certainly won't on purpose. I guess I just want to emphasize what God has done in my life. I don't know where I'd be without Him.


tugofwar

[SeptemberMorn]

Amen and Amen!!

Maybe Paul said his suffering was okay because he knew that when he was weak, God was made stronger in him. IMO, though, it takes an act of will to allow God to become stronger in us. We have to yield completely to HIS will... not ours. It also takes courage and faith.

[tugofwar]

Amen to that!