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  #51  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 03:30 PM
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BlessedRhiannon BlessedRhiannon is offline
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I'm really sorry you're having to go before a review board, I can only imagine how scary that must be.

I don't want to seem like I'm being critical of you, but as you posted the email exchange, I thought it might be helpful to hear an outsider's view.

In your second email to your professor, you start with "it wasn't my fault." In a professional setting, that's just not something you say, even it something really wasn't your fault. Rather, one would acknowledge that something unexpected has happened and try to fix the issue. Claiming something isn't your fault (even if that is true) tends to annoy most people in a position of power. They don't usually care whose fault something is, they just want it acknowledged and fixed.

In your professor's second email, he's trying to nicely end the conversation, but you continued it. In his third email, he tries to end the conversation more firmly and even expresses some concern about your professionalism. Then, the last email from him very firmly closes the conversation. It seems like your professor was a bit taken aback by your insistence on getting answers from him. At that point, it probably would have been more beneficial to request a face to face meeting as the continuing emails just came across as demanding and disrespectful from your side.

Perhaps the professor could have been more understanding or more willing to work with you. Perhaps he really is an a-hole. It doesn't matter. You will need to learn to deal with all personality types in a professional manner, especially if you wish to be a therapist, which is entirely about interpersonal behaviors.
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  #52  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 03:35 PM
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Crescent Moon Crescent Moon is offline
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Originally Posted by InRealLife45 View Post
But again, it stopped being about the grade when he said something was wrong with my paper and refused to explain what that was. All I wanted was an explanation, the grade at that point had already been submitted and posted so it wasnt about that.

I wanted to know why he felt the need to be lenient in grading my paper, like I should be grateful he didn't deduct more than 20 points.
I'm obviously not the professor, but I'd wage a bet that his statement about having been "lenient" about any "issues" (that you describe as him having said something is "wrong" with your paper - which he did not say) - anyway, I'd guess that it is something like sentence structure, grammar, spelling, citation format, or some other minor "technical" errors. It seems like an awful lot of energy to spend on an A- vs A, that has escalated to the point that you called a professor an a-hole to academic staff and got yourself in a disciplinary thing, and might face uncomfortable consequences for a long time. Energy that would be better spent developing coping skills to better manage real or perceived unfairness.
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  #53  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 03:46 PM
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Gavinandnikki Gavinandnikki is offline
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I have sat on disciplinary boards and would like to make a few comments. I am an MD in a very high ranking academic institution and know what I'm talking about. I'm not a very good writer, I'm much more clear and coherent speaking. My comments will seem harsh. If we were talking in person, I would seem much more pleasant and I'd be able to get my points across in a more helpful manner.

You are intelligent and hardworking.

An A- is a good grade.

Many of your posts on PC are very argumentative. You do not accept criticism well. You tend to argue that you are right.

Posting recordings of sessions and conversations is very unprofessional in my opinion. I feel very strongly about this. Frankly, I'm shocked at some of your posted recordings.

If, during the the disciplinary board meeting, you become argumentative or aggressive, in any way, things will go very badly for you. Even if you feel you are right and they are wrong.

Your role is to sit there and be calm, interested in what they have to say, and be very accepting and agreeable. Even if it killing you internally.

This is contingent on the assumption that you want to stay in the program. Even if you want to take some time off, if you plan to continue your studies, you will need letters of reference.

You must keep your ***** together.

I know it's hard to hear criticism, or that someone isn't listening to you. I really do.

Many times, you have to just play the game the way they want.

Before the meeting, you may want to write down some positive, agreeable, and accepting responses to things you think they may say. Maybe even practice saying them, in front of a mirror, so you can see your facial and bodily reactions to hearing them criticizing you.

This is important. The odds of winning the "game" are increased if you are prepared.

Good luck to you. Please consider what I've said, and what other posters have said, thoughtfully, before going before the board.
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  #54  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 04:02 PM
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InRealLife45 InRealLife45 is offline
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Originally Posted by AllHeart View Post
I don't think your email exchanges were disrespectful necessarily. A bit overly persistent, yes. Your professor, in my opinion, did handle the situation professionally and fairly. From what I gather, your paper was only docked points for being late, which affected your final grade. It is my understanding many grad schools do not even accept a final assignment if it's late unless a dire, documented circumstance has arisen, so I think you were very fortunate with that. It sounds like your paper was great. It was an A-, due only to lateness. Minus the possibility of a few grammatical errors, it doesn't seem like there is any feedback to give you for you to learn from.

Since you needed to pursue this situation, I think you would have been better served to have followed-up with the chair person for your requested appointment well before the 3 weeks that went by. Yes, she should have contacted you to set up an appointment as she said she would, but after a few days of not hearing back from her you should have again contacted her.

Calling the professor an asshole to your friend where others were able to hear is unprofessional, and demonstrated very poor judgement. I know we are all only human, but there are times and places where doing such a thing cannot happen. Given the field you are going into makes this a bit more concerning.

I think there is also major concern about requesting to switch out of the new class because of this professor. To just up and request a switch out due to a grade he gave you which was affected by the late submission of your final throws up a few red flags as well. This could be viewed by your advisor as "running from the so-called problem" which is yet another concern, especially in the therapy field.

It is my guess the mix of these things is what led to the disciplinary action referral. I can certainly sympathize with your depression situation. It's not fair, and it's not your fault that you were hit with severe depression. Just as your final grade earned is not the fault of the professor. I do hope you can find a way to accept responsibility for what has transpired and work to resolve the situation professionally. You make AWESOME grades so I know you can do this!

Depression did not factor into this situation. I am not currently depressed. And the switch was not requested due to the grade. It was requested to prevent is getting into an altercation where I lose my ****.

I need to learn a lot more DBT and practice a lot more mindfulness to prevent my getting pissed off and blowing up next time he says some **** to me about the quality of my work without explaining how I could be better next time. I feel like feedback is part of his job.

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  #55  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 04:07 PM
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InRealLife45 InRealLife45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crescent Moon View Post
Energy that would be better spent developing coping skills to better manage real or perceived unfairness.

This is exactly why I requested the class be switched/delayed. So that I might develop more DBT skills to prevent a similar or worse situation in the future.

I'm still mad about the exchange and that would show in discussion with him
Next semester. I just wanted to not have it be so soon.

Bc I know that I'm Not ready to have to deal with him. I need to work on that.

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  #56  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 04:11 PM
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iheartjacques iheartjacques is offline
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Lots of people here care about you and made some good points. I wish you luck.
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  #57  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 04:12 PM
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InRealLife45 InRealLife45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki View Post
I have sat on disciplinary boards and would like to make a few comments. I am an MD in a very high ranking academic institution and know what I'm talking about. I'm not a very good writer, I'm much more clear and coherent speaking. My comments will seem harsh. If we were talking in person, I would seem much more pleasant and I'd be able to get my points across in a more helpful manner.


You are intelligent and hardworking.


An A- is a good grade.


Many of your posts on PC are very argumentative. You do not accept criticism well. You tend to argue that you are right.


Posting recordings of sessions and conversations is very unprofessional in my opinion. I feel very strongly about this. Frankly, I'm shocked at some of your posted recordings.


If, during the the disciplinary board meeting, you become argumentative or aggressive, in any way, things will go very badly for you. Even if you feel you are right and they are wrong.


Your role is to sit there and be calm, interested in what they have to say, and be very accepting and agreeable. Even if it killing you internally.


This is contingent on the assumption that you want to stay in the program. Even if you want to take some time off, if you plan to continue your studies, you will need letters of reference.


You must keep your ***** together.


I know it's hard to hear criticism, or that someone isn't listening to you. I really do.


Many times, you have to just play the game the way they want.


Before the meeting, you may want to write down some positive, agreeable, and accepting responses to things you think they may say. Maybe even practice saying them, in front of a mirror, so you can see your facial and bodily reactions to hearing them criticizing you.


This is important. The odds of winning the "game" are increased if you are prepared.


Good luck to you. Please consider what I've said, and what other posters have said, thoughtfully, before going before the board.

...I wasn't in school when I posted those recordings. I was in therapy. No expectation of professionalism.

But I hear you. I need to shut up, nod and agree with what they say no matter how ridiculous I think it is.

I will take a lot of Xanax to help that happen.

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  #58  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 04:23 PM
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Lauliza Lauliza is offline
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Originally Posted by InRealLife45 View Post
How is it an ethical problem? There is no expectation of confidentiality with e-mail. I havent violated any ethics by sharing this.

And- Im borderline. Clearly I have severe issues with interpersonal relations, I know that and my department chair knows that as I have shared it with her, that I struggle with that. It's something I am working on, how can I be expected to enter graduate school a ready made Professional and behave like a therapist when I am two years away from becoming one? I am a STUDENT.
I am a graduate psych student and have my own issues as well. I'm not borderline but have some traits and have depression and some social anxiety. It's very common for people entering the field to have various psychiatric issues, but that doesn't exempt anyone from
behaving appropriately. Grad school is considered professional training and students are expected to behave accordingly. You will meet professors who are jerks, who don't communicate well, etc., just as you would in the workplace, and just like in the workplace, you
have to put up with it to some degree. I couldn't open your link so Im not sure of the details, but it sounds like you're not satisfied with his grading and communication style. This has
happened with me (I had a prof who never returned an assignment, so we never got any feedback) and probably happens to everyone in school at some point. Sometimes it's worth
speaking up in an appropriate manner and in the proper context. Much of the time however, you have to just accept that a professor often teaches the class the way they see fit. He is doing his job- you might not like the way he does it, but he is doing his job just the same. Your job as a student is to pass your classes and learn how to navigate and conduct yourself appropriately in the field you are entering. Badgering a professor because you don't like your grade will be seen by some people as harassment, and that will get you in trouble. The fact that you are borderline is not an excuse, nor are med side effects. They won't be in the professional world either and since you will be working with clients who are often vulnerable, this is an especially important lesson to learn. I would take this as a learning experience that might help you navigate these types of interactions in the future.

Last edited by Lauliza; Nov 30, 2015 at 04:43 PM.
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  #59  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 04:32 PM
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iheartjacques iheartjacques is offline
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Just to be sure, I read the emails, he didn't do anything wrong. I wish you luck in choosing your next step and hope you come to peace. I have a post grad degree and would never have argued or debated anything with academic staff. An A- is still a great grade!
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  #60  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 04:33 PM
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iheartjacques iheartjacques is offline
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And I hope you delete this thread as well as sharing emails publicly will backfire on you
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  #61  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 04:37 PM
JaneTennison1 JaneTennison1 is offline
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Your intense, angry reaction is similar to that I have had in the past. I can argue and fizz and prove my points all I want but what does it matter? You can be "right" and expelled or view the bigger picture and move on.
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  #62  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 05:41 PM
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Favorite Jeans Favorite Jeans is offline
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I'm so sorry that this is happening. I have also had times in my life where it's been extremely challenging to let go of my indignation. I really sympathize.

It strikes me that learning to let go of your indignation, your need to be right and your need to express your frustration and anger ought to be your number one learning objective in your training to become a therapist. As I see it, this is way more crucial than anything else you might be doing in school.

If I understood correctly, you might be ready to qualify as a therapist in two years. That is very little time. As many people have mentioned already, it is totally fair game for your program to judge you on your professionalism well before you are certified as a professional. You can excel academically and still not graduate over concerns about your professionalism.

Having BPD can be awful and the circumstances that lead to it are beyond one's control. But it is not okay IMHO to still be controlled by borderline impulses as a therapist. The damage that one could do to others is really beyond measure. In DBT you learn that your feelings do not require actions and that, in fact, you ought sometimes act opposite to how you feel. Life is going to hand you many more opportunities to practise those skills. Use them well.
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  #63  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 05:53 PM
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divine1966 divine1966 is offline
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I think if it was freshmen year in undergraduate school, it would be different as students are often not even 18. Graduate students are expected to act as adults. As they are grown up. Many are already professionals or are on their way to that.

Now we all make mistakes. It's ok to admit you handle something not so great. Not the end of the world. Learn from your mistakes and move on. Just keep on improving and tell disciplinary board that you are working on your people skills and you intend to do better. The whole conversation was confrontational on your part and seemed uncalled for. Plus calling him names where one can hear

But heck live and learn. Don't get discouraged. Don't drop out of school over this. People do worse things than that and they survive. If must take time off school for a bit.



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  #64  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 06:21 PM
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Fyi - as ive been there, done that - the receptionist is not your friend. She works for the university, esp for the program chair.

What were you thinking, when she called you to come meet with her "right this minute", that you would think it was okay to tell her to wait an hour? You were just there in the office a minute ago. She saw you. I understand about you feeling tearful and emotional, but do you see how self-centered that made you look? You had no consideration for her schedule for the rest of the day. Its not like you were bartering the price of a car or a cantelope and she was looking for you to make a counteroffer. I think she referred you for discipline because it appeared you were refusing to come in. You had no excuse not to come in.

You keep saying now you will take xanax to get thru it, instead of responding to anyone here. I would like to see you figure out why you refused to meet when called. I would give a million bucks to have the guts to do that. "I cant right now, how about in an hour?" Or was it painful to do it? Were you just too scared to go? You must have known she only had "now" available; there would be no "later".

Obviously this means something to me personally; not sure what yet, my mother scaring me played out at my work. Anyway, Thanks for sharing.
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  #65  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 06:39 PM
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InRealLife45 InRealLife45 is offline
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Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
Fyi - as ive been there, done that - the receptionist is not your friend. She works for the university, esp for the program chair.


What were you thinking, when she called you to come meet with her "right this minute", that you would think it was okay to tell her to wait an hour? You were just there in the office a minute ago. She saw you. I understand about you feeling tearful and emotional, but do you see how self-centered that made you look? You had no consideration for her schedule for the rest of the day. Its not like you were bartering the price of a car or a cantelope and she was looking for you to make a counteroffer. I think she referred you for discipline because it appeared you were refusing to come in. You had no excuse not to come in.


You keep saying now you will take xanax to get thru it, instead of responding to anyone here. I would like to see you figure out why you refused to meet when called. I would give a million bucks to have the guts to do that. "I cant right now, how about in an hour?" Or was it painful to do it? Were you just too scared to go? You must have known she only had "now" available; there would be no "later".


Obviously this means something to me personally; not sure what yet, my mother scaring me played out at my work. Anyway, Thanks for sharing.

Um the receptionist IS my friend-she's a student. She also works at the school for work study. She did not tell on me.

As for refusing the meeting- the program chair was in a completely different office and did not see me. I asked for an APPOINTMENT three weeks earlier, not for a "I'm available now" when you are extremely emotional and likely to say something that will get you in trouble" last minute invitation.

I didn't need an excuse not to show up bc it wasn't a scheduled appointment. Do you want to meet with superiors in the middle of a freak out? Do you find that ends positively for you? I don't, so I didn't.

And I did not TELL her I'd come in one hour, I ASKED if I could. She said no so i said okay and went home.

You are mixing up people and I think Not understanding the reason for the referral.

Referred by: academic advisor
Impromptu Meeting offered by: program chair
Feedback disagreement with: previous professor

I did not have anything scheduled with program chair and was only there to do my homework.

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Last edited by InRealLife45; Nov 30, 2015 at 07:14 PM.
  #66  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 07:01 PM
Perry Gunite Perry Gunite is offline
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There has been so much supportive honest support and feedback here.
Sadly the OP responses to them seem unappreciative and argumentative and this point.
Done following at this point now for me. Good luck.
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  #67  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 07:14 PM
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DelusionsDaily DelusionsDaily is offline
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Can I make a suggestion to the OP:
Take some time for yourself cool down and reread the thread. There are plenty of helpful responses. TAKE THEM. It might help you tremendously.
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  #68  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 07:15 PM
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InRealLife45 InRealLife45 is offline
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Can I make a suggestion to the OP:
Take some time for yourself cool down and reread the thread. There are plenty of helpful responses. TAKE THEM. It might help you tremendously.

Already done so, copied down the ones I found helpful, thank you

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  #69  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 07:16 PM
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DelusionsDaily DelusionsDaily is offline
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Already done so, copied down the ones I found helpful, thank you

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  #70  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 07:51 PM
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Already done so, copied down the ones I found helpful, thank you

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The objectively helpful ones?
  #71  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 08:08 PM
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unaluna unaluna is offline
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The objectively helpful ones?
I think thats tautological.
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  #72  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 08:11 PM
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InRealLife45 InRealLife45 is offline
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Gotcha, appreciate the clarification!

Oh, what'll probably happen is they'll scare the heck out of you and rub it in your face, trying to get you to explode right there in the room. They might raise their voices or something. Just stay on point and don't let their emotions get to you. Pretend they are your future clients and keep a wise mind. If they accept your apology, they'll probably want to exert some kind of "action plan" or other stuff, "so (from their perspective) this doesn't happen again". It might be helpful to think about things to say when they ask about this not happening again. You can do this!

I remember going through school, the faculty would falsely accuse every student in the class of all kinds of violations, just to test how professional they could be in the face of adversity. Bugger the ivory towers!
I found this response most helpful because it offered methods to help maintain emotional control and also provided an alternate means of viewing the situation that didn't blame me but still pointed out the need for me to accept the redirection.
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  #73  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 08:15 PM
SkyscraperMeow SkyscraperMeow is offline
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I have a similar set of conditions as you, but less intense. I'm not on any medications. I don't even fully meet the criteria for BPD - and I know that I am in no way shape or form, fit to be a therapist. I'm barely fit to be posting on this forum most of the time.

Maybe you will be one day be ready to be a therapist, when your medications are stable and you no longer meet the BPD criteria. But frankly, I think trying to be a practicing therapist in two years while actively BPD is just... put it this way, I don't think the decision to take your money and allow you into the course was ethical.

You're obviously very smart and eloquent. There are places you can use those academic skills etc. There are a million different careers out there where passion and brilliance and sheer intellectual prowess will take you a very long way. There are places where being scrappy and relentless will work for you.

But the position of a professional therapist does not fit any of those criteria.

I don't think you're in any shape to be a therapist, and frankly, I don't think they're going to let you be one in your current state either.

If this is really your dream, you need to take several steps back and look at what you need to do to get yourself recovered from the disorder.
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  #74  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 08:19 PM
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InRealLife45 InRealLife45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Permacultural View Post
Gotcha, appreciate the clarification!

Oh, what'll probably happen is they'll scare the heck out of you and rub it in your face, trying to get you to explode right there in the room. They might raise their voices or something. Just stay on point and don't let their emotions get to you. Pretend they are your future clients and keep a wise mind. If they accept your apology, they'll probably want to exert some kind of "action plan" or other stuff, "so (from their perspective) this doesn't happen again". It might be helpful to think about things to say when they ask about this not happening again. You can do this!

I remember going through school, the faculty would falsely accuse every student in the class of all kinds of violations, just to test how professional they could be in the face of adversity. Bugger the ivory towers!
I found this response most helpful because it offered methods to help maintain emotional control and also provided an alternate means of viewing the situation that didn't blame me but still pointed out the need for me to accept the redirection.
  #75  
Old Nov 30, 2015, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
I think thats tautological.
How? There is subjectively helpful and objectively helpful. Responses that reflect your own pov can be classified as subjectively helpful while responses that you may not agree with but will help you in the end are objectively.
Reply
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attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




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