Ask a Sexual Sadist

This thread is the reason I registered. Help me understand myself better by digging deep. Lets find out together what makes me tick.

First of all, let me give you an overview.

According to the WTO:

Sexual Sadism is a derivation of sexual pleasure from the infliction of pain, suffering and/or humiliation upon another person. The pain and suffering of the victim, which may be both physical and psychological, is pivotal to the sexual arousal and pleasure.

The diagnostic criteria according to the DSM-IV-TR

1. Recurrent, intense sexual arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving acts (real, not simulated) in which the psychological or physical suffering (including humiliation) of the victim is sexually exciting for the person, have been present for at least 6 months.

2. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant stress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of function.

1 applies to me. Though by now those fantasies have been going on for 9 years running.

2 used to, before I had an outlet within consensual BDSM. I feared myself. I loathed myself. I locked up a part of myself in what I called my internal cellar and fought it tooth and nail. I was not a happy camper. I am currently in a consensual non-consent relationship, a total power exchange relationship. I see myself as having found stability and internal peace now.

And nobody is getting harmed. Well, not on purpose. There was this one incident witih a clothespin zipper that caused some unintentional bloodshed, but I felt really, really bad about that. A lot worse than she did, actually. Accidents happen. We live, we learn.

Characteristics/Predominant Features - Mild Sexual Sadism
Mild sadism, referred to as S&M, bondage & discipline, or dominance & submission is a specialized subculture in the homosexual community and in large cities networks exist for those who have this interest. It is not, however, limited to this group. Sexual sadists of both sexes often seek out masochistic partners. Sexually sadistic behavior in these consensual cases may involve:

- role playing with dominant and submissive roles: master-slave, governess-pupil, ect.
- the dominant partner placing the submissive one in a position of helplessness and then applies some form of discipline or punishment, usually accompanied by verbal degradation
- use of gags and blindfolds to render the submissive partner helpless and immobile
-the administration of pain, humiliation or bondage is effected through such acts as whipping or flagellation, usually applied to the buttocks
- cross-dressing the submissive partner
- treating the submissive like an animal and/or making him/her crawl
- confining the submissive to a cage
- humiliated by being forced to wear a diaper or lick the dominant's boots.
- binding or clamping the breasts/nipples/penis of the submissive
- urinating or defecating on the submissive and forcing ingestion on the victim

What I marked in blue I didn't do. Everything else, been there, done that. I'd love to do the cage one, but good ones are a lot more expensive than you might imagine.

Characteristics/Predominate Features - Major Sexual Sadism
Major sexual sadism, on the other hand, is usually not consensual and involves injury or death to the victim. The element of fear in the victim and complete control of the victim is the major sexual stimuli in major sexual sadism. Some of the more severe activities involved in this behavoir may invlude:

- severe beatings
- torture
- burning, cutting
- stabbing in the breast or buttocks (piquerism)
- rape
- murder
- vampirism
- necrophilia

Where my fantasies do not go is necrophilia and murder. Everything else I have fantasized about at least once. Well, maybe not vampirism. That is a question of definition though. I'm guessing this definition goes further than cutting, then licking the blade. Because that, been there, done that.

What I would consider severe beatings (and thus, torture), I have done. Consensually. Rape within the consensual non-consent is something we talked about. There is a possibility I might go there one day. Having sex with her and making sure she does not want it.

I am careful not to break my toys. I could be emotionally sadistic and use verbal degradation with the little one, but I know that she would get nothing out of that experience, and further than that, that it would harm her.

I think that is why I have reached a stable state. Sexual sadists that slide down further are described as often being narcissistic, with an element of social anxiety. I am certainly not devoid of empathy. I'm so empathic I sometimes consider it a curse. And while I'm far from trying to get into the limelight, I don't consider myself anti-social.

I have, over the years, compartmentalized this aspect of myself, locked it away, and in some ways I still do. I call it my inner beast, and when I feel myself entering that state, I call that "baring my teeth", because that is what it feels like. And sometimes, it's what I do, literally. It is a primal state, predatory. But that predator is shy, and can only come out with those whom he trusts.

I have also stopped seeking the rush of more power and control brings with it. Now it just is. I reached a normalized plateau. But that is ok, because I like the way it is. I was taught that the key to happiness is being content with what you have, and I learned the truth of that in that moment, when I realized there was no further I could go and I had everything already.

What I have learned by myself once I discovered this was an actual "thing" is that there is no cure. There is no treatment. There is no therapy for sexual sadism. It is supposedly degenerative. That means, the beast will get hungrier in time, but I am not concerned. I fought all my internal battles already, and I have my inner beast tamed, thanks to finding complementary partners that were accepting and eager even to receive what I craved to give.

Some other data, for what it's worth.

MBTI: Infj
I had several IQ test done in 5th grade with scores ranging between 158 and 175
And some other test that showed that with a large margin I process information visually, rather than through sound or touch.

There you have it. Now, is anyone interested in digging a little?

Your a bright person ! Hubby is 158 and VERY smart...

I will re read and maybe then reply as of yet all I can offer is Hugs...

O.o.......interesting?....>.<...scary...and like..Woof!

If you're at peace, what are you trying to accomplish by posting all this info here besides upsetting members here?? Do you want to shock us or do you want us to accept you?

((((Lynn)))).......lol....>.<.....Woot!

Neither. Let me start answering your question by saying that I can read people with great ease, but I always have the hardest of times of reading myself. I've often suprised myself in the past by thinking of doing one thing and then doing something else.

For example, when I was sixteen, getting off a bus, 100 DM (around 50 dollars or so, at the time) fell out of the back pocket of the woman in front of me. I got out of the bus, watched her walk off, looked in all directions, and I could have taken it, free and clear. And being 16 at the time, I was constantly broke. And I wanted to. I reached down, took the money, thought, awesome,... and then I called out after the woman and gave her the money. I didn't see that one coming.

I can't read myself unless there is an externalized expression of it, such as there is in action, or in writing. It helps me to understand myself better.

And that is what I am here for, to understand myself better, and to give those who are interested in knowing a chance to understand and interact with my type. This being a psychology board I figured there would be some people here interested enough in digging into the psyche of a strange bird like myself.

Understood and respected point~W~

Interesting... I don't have any questions now... I might ask later if something comes to my mind...

You'd mentioned that earlier. I was wondering how you check how accurate your readings are. These examples probably don't apply to you but how do you rule out that they could?

1. I've known people, including members of my family and on occasion myself, to decide somehow that another person was harboring good or ill intentions, therefore was trustworthy or untrustworthy, friend or foe, good or wicked. Any further "reading" of them would then be done through that filter. When they did something that didn't square with our "model" of them, we'd come up with an explanation: a good person having a bad day and saying things they didn't really mean, or a bad person putting on an act to lull others' suspicions of them. How do you tell that you're actually reading the other person, not imposing your preconceptions on them?

2. I've occasionally, in my teens and twenties especially, had others form preconceptions of me, then found myself playing along and even cultivating the image they had of me in order to be halfway accepted and not make waves. If someone I considered more knowledgeable than myself speculated that I was unconsciously thinking or wishing something, I'd go out of my way first to dredge up evidence that they might be right, then to rely on their conclusion for guidance on what I should do next. How do you tell whether or not the people you "read" are eager to play along and make you right?

I'm not at all surprised. We can think pretty much anything we want to about ourselves. It's what we say, and even more what we do, that defines us. If you formulate a principle that broke teenagers can always be counted on to hang on to found money, better be prepared to find that there are exceptions -- and that you could even be one yourself.
We-e-e-e-ell, OK... but what if we were to forget about your "type" and approach you as a unique individual instead?

Have you tried to find out from a therapist why you turned out to be like this? How was your childhood - did you have an overly domineering parent? Are you afraid of others controlling you? How would you react, if you encountered someone who wanted to victimize/control you? Maybe you're afraid of losing control and that's why you want it so bad.

Not really.

You stopped reading the DSM too soon, for it says:

Treatment and Outcome

Treatment aims

The aims of treatment are: to reduce sadistic behavior; to improve the patient's sexual functioning with consenting partners; to prevent relapse.

Pharmacological treatment

Very little data have been collected about treatment modalities or treatment efficacy for sexual sadism. Antidepressants and hormonal therapies have been tried.

Antidepressant medication Most antidepressant medications given for paraphilias, including sexual sadism, are thought to work by treating the 'obsessional' nature of the disorder and by taking advantage of the sexual side-effect profile of these medications.

Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (e.g. fluoxetine**, fluvoxamine**, paroxetine**) generally have fewer side effects than the tricyclic antidepressants (e.g. clomipramine**, imipramine**) and may be considered first-line agents, especially for patients on few or no other medications.

Appropriate dosages have not been determined, but it is generally accepted that medications should be prescribed in doses similar to those given in the treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorder or depression. Doses can be adjusted until symptoms are controlled or side-effects become intolerable.

** off-label use

Standard dosage

Standard doses are: fluoxetine: 20mg/day (maximum dose 60mg/day); fluvoxamine: 100mg/day initially (maximum dose 300mg/day); paroxetine: 20mg/day (maximum dose 50mg/day); clomipramine: 30-150mg/day; imipramine: 75mg/day initially, then up to 150-200mg/day.

Now, are you willing to go digging with a therapist so you don't continue to downgrade? TC

Okay, I'll bite. You've piqued my interest.

Firstly, where does one find bdsm enthusiasts? Do you all advertise on Craigslist, or meet on Wednesdays at the community center after the book club and PTA meeting? I ask for research purposes, not an interest in participating.

I understand the desire for control all too well. Dominance does not arouse me sexually, however. Also, unlike yourself, I am void of empathy. So, how much of a role does empathy play in your relationship and those especially deviant desires? Do you have a normal relationship with your partner aside from S&M?

Quite frankly, as long as both parties are consenting, I don't see anything wrong with S&M. I laud you for your honesty and ability to control your desires.

I find it quite ironic that your Myers-Briggs personality type is the "protector"...

No to the therapist. When I felt like I needed one I didn't feel comfortable going to one. The idea occurred to me a lot though.

Did I have domineering parents? That is a very hard question to answer.

I've been sitting here for half an hour now thinking this over.

Yes, I did. My father was domineering. But, even when I was 5, he never managed to get anywhere with that. He would tell me something I should do, at which point I would tell him "no", at which point he would raise his voice, and if it escalated, spank me, but if I said "no" I meant "no", and that no would not turn into a yes.

There was no way to get me to do something I did not want to do without convincing me that it was what I wanted to do.

At times it was a war zone. At other times, as a child, I was the emotional support for my mother. One of my earliest memories is of telling my mother, who was stressed out with school at the time, that everything would be alright, and letting her cry on my shoulder.

By the time I was in my teenage years I raised my parents, rather than the other way around. I continued to support my mother emotionally, I acted as a moderator and mediator for them. I realized my father had some type of mental disorder, something along the line of aspergers. He would need routine like other people needed air to breath. Anything outside of his routine would send him into a panic. He also couldn't relate to anyone, so, he was hard to live with. My mother left him for a few years, at which point, I took over her job, making sure he ate, making sure the clothes were laundered, until I moved out. At which point he lost enough weight to be nothing but skin and bones until my mother moved back in.

Strangely enough I am not afraid of others controlling me. I function best in a structured environment with clear hierarchies.

But victimizing me... that triggers me. I grew up as part of the counter culture. I was the German equivalent to a hippie. People have tried to to victimize me, through physical violence. When I was 15, at one point two guys pinned me while a third kept kneeing my groin. I don't remember why. I fell to my knees when they let me go, and when I got up, I was in that mindspace. The "baring my teeth" mindspace. That part surfaced and took over completely. They thought I was done, and it was over. It wasn't, and it would never ever be over. Not as long as there was air in my lungs.

Using a broad brush stroke, on a cultural level violence is to a German something vile, and what I did then was escalate the violence to levels shocking to everyone around us at a core level. People were too stunned to interfere.

When my emotions came back a few hours later, while I got the hand I broke against the other guys face patched up, I was euphoric.

I've been writing this post probably for 3 hours now. Thinking about the answers, remembering back.

What dominance within a relationship gives me is security.

Because she submits to me I feel safe with her. I feel safe to tell her everything. I can trust her completely. I can open up wholly. There is nothing about me my slave doesn't know. I know that she would not, would never, could never hurt me, use me or harm me.


Ultimately, that is the highest gift it could have given me, this power exchange. The ability to wholly give myself over, open and trust without reservation.

I don't think I can be happy in a relationship without this power exchange anymore.

That is a good question.

I tried to explain this before. To our third. He asked me once what my thought process was. If I think about something consciously before I decide what impact what I will do will have on his wife, my slave. He asked about his wife rather than himself because I told him on many occasions that him I cannot read at all. He is an enigma to me.

In any case, after a month I understood his wife of 10 years better than he did.

One example that comes to mind is when he outed our triad. He felt happy, wanted to share the happy, and told someone why he was happy. Without telling us first. He thought that she was angry at him because he did something that she said she didn't like, even though she never outright told him not to do it. He thought she was angry at him because she felt disrespected, when it was clear to me that she wasn't angry at all. She looked angry. She sounded angry, but in truth, she was terrified of the potential consequences of our outing to someone she didn't know.

But... ok. What is reading. I think there are two answers to this that complement one another. Emotional, and primal.

On one hand, reading means being able to tell what another person feels. I don't believe in supernatural phenomena, so, when I have an empathic connection to someone what I imagine must really be happening is that I am able to relate to that person, put myself into their shoes and see the world from their perspective. Sometimes that happens very fast, sometimes it takes a while, sometimes it doesn't at all. He is at the end of the spectrum most removed from my own experiences. With him, it took a very long time for a single moment.

As an introvert it is very hard to put yourself into the shoes of a complete extrovert. The difference in perception is so different we might as well be of a different species. It took half a year until I had one moment of empathic connection with him, and that was at the height of a scene, when he finally expressed emotion coming from deep within through a cathartic release. It was such a beautiful moment. And then he apologized for it a few minutes later, for being emotional, and that connection was cut.

So, there is a limit to that ability to relate.

Then there is the part I attribute to the primal side, reading body language cues on an instinctual level. And that part is just really hard to explain, but, it's there.

See also: (I can't post links. google search the grayson / stein study)

I do not believe that this perception is limited to victim selection, it's just what the study limited its focus on.

That happens, and I would be lying if I said that in the past I didn't use that to my advantage when it did. The way I see it it's all part of people wanting to be told what to do, what to think, how to act, who to be. Unsure of their own identity. Trying to find a place for themselves and someone telling them here is their place and everything will be alright.

But those aren't the only people I dealt with. The woman I spent 8 years of my life with was 40 when we met. She was 20 years my senior. She lost two husbands, raised two children by herself, and took crap from nobody. She was nicknamed the tank. The reason we clicked was, on some level, she wanted someone to be "the man" for her, in a very traditional gender role type of way, someone to take some off her load, and I wanted to take that load.

And her son, the boy I raised to adulthood, he was just entering puberty. Also someone who thought by default that everyone around him was wrong about everything.

I believe I can read people because I was able to make both of them feel understood, feel known, and made myself understood to them. I was able to relate to them and communicate with them on an emotionally meaningful level.

You'd be welcome to.

I'm not basing that on the DSM. I'm basing it on the professional opinion of this man (can't post links. google search the wiki page of roy hazelwood), who has seen countless men treated. I read some of him, and I have to say, I think this man is quite brilliant, and even though he, I believe, only dealt with those that were criminal, on the far end of the spectrum, I think the points he makes can be counted to be at the highest expert level.

I live in a city. There are about 4 clubs within 30 minutes of walking distance, though sadly the only one dedicated to it full time burned down a while back, and it doesn't look like it will be making a return. It was a small place with a very friendly atmosphere. It's a very close knit community. The place itself was basically a small restaurant with a pool table, a dart board, a bar, a spanking bench and a St Andrews cross. Fun, friendly, cozy, harmless.

I was registered at on a few forums for a while, but German websites require you to register yourself for age verification purposes. This requires from me, in order to be able to access adult content, that I leave a copy of my ID, real name and address, at a third party. A third party that is also aware of what adult content it is that I am accessing. I was never willing to do that. Few people are, hence the online community here is anything but thriving.

Yes and no. It's a power exchange relationship. The power exchange is constant. But I am not constantly "bearing my teeth". When there is a decision that needs to be made I am referred to. Think of it like a father figure. Even though the father doesn't make his authority felt at all times, it's always there. Empathy plays into this in such a way that when I make decisions I base them on what I think would be best for them. To them, my happiness is theirs, and to me, their happiness is mine.

I haven't really taken control in a long time though. A month or so we're running on autopilot now. I'm dealing with a lot of things right now that rob me of my strength. There is nothing left of me that can give. One of the downsides of this relationship. I am their pillar. Me, without strength, that sends them into a place where they themselves get insecure and can't offer me support. Though, to be fair, they are getting better at it. They are trying.

A lot of things. Grief, for one. The most. My ex had a child she didn't tell me about until after the cremation, thinking she was doing me a favor by not using a child to get me to come back. I wish she would never have told me. I think part of why I am doing this here, now, actually.... part of why I am focused on this aspect, now.... is ... avoidance...

...... hm

You can run, but you can't hide from yourself. *sighs*

Okay, that works too. You see you're operating off biased data, in that you think there's no cure for this, there's no treatment, when in actuality there is. For the criminally insane, or the die hard criminal with the comorbidity issues? Probably not, but you've said you're not a criminal (in so many words.)

There is treatment. You have chosen not to push and get help. I suspect once you find the reasons for that, what you're gaining in saying there's not treatment and you're stuck with the way you are, etc, and you repulse to therapy, then you will be ready to heal. imo.

TC

This probably isn't the type of question you were expecting, but is the whole "leather" thing completely necessary in the bdsm scene? I'm really not into it. It's just... uncomfortable... Other than that, I think I'd make a pretty good mistress...

Not at all. There is nothing that is necessary, and the leather families that grew out of the beginnings of BDSM within the homosexual community are now just another subset of the very wide umbrella that is BDSM.

When there are dress codes they vary wildly from event to event.

The last one I considered going to which was more of a general decadence evening had the following:

Latex colorful/black, leather, TV, PVC, uniforms, glamor & fantasy, burlesque, fetish goth, net, lingerie and corsets.

With an extra allowance for male doms with company, which could also wear black suits with a black shirt, with their company naked except for wrist straps and a collar.

The other event, well, it didn't allow Mistresses, but had they, I'm sure their dress code would have stipulated cultivated evening dresses for them.

It's funny how you mention you haven't raped anyone, but most of what you did IS rape.

If an agreement is reached that such and such acts occur, and if that agreement is reached with mutual understanding and trust, without coercion, how is that rape?

I'm afraid I don't follow your train of thought.

This is a very interesting topic. I will say, I was not expecting to find a topic like this lol.

I will be honest, I did not sit here and read through all the posts, but I will say this, just because the DSM may label you as sadistic (in my case- masochistic) doesn't mean you have to necessarily change it. It is what it is. Some people are prone to that (BDSM) lifestyle and some aren't. Neither here or there.

I'm probably missing something here- my apologies.
But if I were you, I guess I wouldn't be so concerned with it. As long as you find a partner who enjoys being the recipient of your sadistic acts and everything involved is consentual, than I don't see a problem.

Good luck to you,
21

PS- I actually know what you mean when you say clothespin zipper. I usually end up having to explain it to someone lol.

I'm wondering now. Sexual sadism isn't really about sadism. I really think it's a misnomer. It should be named sexual power fixations, because the sadism part of it is really more of a means to an end, the end being power over someone else. As I said, now I am wondering, if from the masochistic side it is like that as well, if the masochism is a means to an end, and that end also being about power, but rather than enforcing/showing that someone has power over someone else, giving it up.

And thanks.

Yes, but the way I see it, acquiring power over someone else could turn out to be just be the means to some other "end". It might, for example, relieve some sort of discomfort for you...

There are other ends, and yes. It works for me on multiple ends. But then you dig beyond that, and dig deeper. And you follow that thread and it leads to the core. At that point, really, you can call it a sexual orientation in the same way that being heterosexual is.

Which is why I don't believe in treatment for it. Any treatment for it would aim at my sexuality. How does one treat heterosexuality? Chemical castration, anyone?

Why would I seek that out if I don't experience any discomfort anymore?

I'm kinda the opposite in that I have Sexual Masochism..
I've never practiced anything with anyone, but i have enough of an imagination I can pretend..which bothers me a LOT..I hate it..I think I've always hated it..even when I was too young to understand it, but still practiced it..I just want it to go away..I've tried coping, and I'm done with that..I really just want it to go away...

It's not an easy journey to come to acceptance. I've hated, too, I've feared, I've loathed... but I couldn't run away from myself.

This is a story that, well, I can very much related to coming from the other side of it. The first time I read it I shed tears. Maybe you can relate to it too, emotionally, who knows.

http://clarissethorn.wordpress.com/2...-story-mirror/

I feel like I can relate to that story, even though it's a different situation. I don't want to accept it though..I just can't..but I appreciate you sharing that with me..