[Rapunzel]

I just feel that way. I probably have no right to feel that way. I just feel like I should not exist. I don't belong anywhere and I never will belong anywhere.

What triggered that feeling tonight was the neighbor's dog coming into my yard and barking at my kids. When I went outside it barked at me too (second time in my yard after being called back once). Same neighbors who had a chihuahua cross when we moved here, that thought it owned our driveway and front lawn and attacked my kids and dogs if we they were out there. The chihuahua got aggressive with my dogs a while back when the kids had the dogs out in our backyard walking them, and the chihuahua lost when our dogs pulled away from the kids and defended their family (still in our back yard). They replaced it with a labrador/husky or chow puppy, which is growing up fast and starting to do the same thing. Neither of us have fence all the way around yet, but their dogs are always out (loose - they have a doggie door), and ours only go outside on leashes. We don't even take them out and play catch in the yard because they would call and get them impounded (once when we weren't home our back door came open somenhow and another neighbor said our dogs came out and sat on our back deck, and one went back in the house, and within 10 minutes animal control was here and baited them back out to take them), but their dog wanders free and they lie and say that our dogs are the ones running loose. I need to get a fence, but I am resenting that I can't go outside and play with my dogs because of dishonest irresponsible neighbors.

So, I called animal control and they were closed for the night, so I called the sherrif's department (the after hours number on the recording) and they said it wasn't an emergency if the neighbors are home and could put their dog inside, so call in the morning. Yeah, they could but they won't. I can't call in the morning - I have to go to work.

Essentially I am now suspecting that I am being punished for not being able to stay home all day like the neighbor can. And I can't - I tried that until it just about killed me.

Now I'm having this whole chain reaction involving my whole life - always being the new kid and not being significant enough for anyone to care or include me or help me or notice that I needed help. Nobody knows me here.

And I feel bad because I heard from a friend who also goes to my T that T's dog had cancer and she was going to have to have her put down soon (there's the dog connection), and I'm sad that T doesn't tell me things like this but emails her other client and tells her. There are more similar stories where I hear about what is happening with T through my friend, and T says nothing to me. I'm currently not supposed to email T at all, but I'm wondering if it would be okay to send a sympathy note, except that I don't have enough information. I'm also worried that I won't be able to talk to T about what I need to at my next session because she will be sad or will care more about the dog or about someone else than she does about me, and probably should because why should anyone care about me anyway?

There's more 'evidence' that T cares more about others than about me. Once I was driving out for an appointment and almost there when I got a voicemail from T that she had double-booked and couldn't reschedule the other person because the other person was in trouble and not doing well, even though I was driving a long way and had the appointment first (the other person no-showed, so I didn't lose any time other than waiting out in my car because I didn't get the second message about the no-show) (and T was very apologetic about it in the first message) but I was distracted wondering if T was worrying about the other client during my session. And last Fall I was suicidal and hadn't seen T in person for like 3 months, and email wasn't working and I was desperate and told T that I'd drop everything any time if she had a cancellation, and not long after that my friend who is also a client told me that she was getting an extra session (she had seen T within the week) because T offered her an appointment that someone cancelled.

All this triggered from the neighbor's dog coming into my yard. I'm feeling pretty second-rate and insignificant overall.

[Rapunzel]

[Perna]

I wouldn't talk to that particular friend about therapy; you don't know about the truth/whole story of what she's saying, but I would tell your T about it. It's possible your friend asks more questions and/or some subjects come up and not others and/or she got an extra session before you asked for one, etc. but since you can't know what "they" are doing, you can't know the whole story.

I'd discuss the whole dog thing too and do something like get a motion-detection sprinkler for your yard http://comfortfirst.com/p-31791-scar...er-168501.aspx to "teach" their dog to stay away :-) I have a fence but it's the neighbor's and only 2-3 feet high and their larger dog, Amber, jumps the fence anyway. But my neighbors are nice and know the "problem" so it's more just a nuisance than anything else. The neighbor on the other side has a professional hunting dog but he's usually on his lead when he's out but I have trouble letting my two cats out :-) and only do it weekdays when everyone's at work.

No way you can talk to the neighbors? What started the problem? Does not sound fun.

To heck with real life :-) move here, we'll care for you! {{{Rapunzel}}}

[Rapunzel]

I've tried talking to the neighbors, and I think she lies through her teeth to me like she does to everyone else. We've only lived in this house since late December, and their dog thought it owned the neighborhood long before that because they let him run loose. I couldn't check my mailbox on the way in from walking my dogs because their dog ran over and challenged my dogs at our mailbox next to our driveway, and I made my dogs retreat from it. My son was chased all the way up to our door on his way home from school, the chihuahua barking and nipping at his heels. My dogs saw that through the window. The neighbors introduced themselves and kind-of apologized for their dog taking over our driveway the first time we met them, and I should have confronted them then about the need to control their dog, but I didn't think it would be a big deal, and didn't want to create a problem. I was so dumb! My dogs killed the chihuahua in February when it came into our back yard barking at them and my girls, who had our dogs on leases. My dogs went to the pound for 10 days and I got a huge fine. I got another $140 fine when our door came open one day and my dogs poked their noses out.

The neighbor tells animal control that my dogs are the ones running loose, and my dogs are never out without being on leashes. When I did go talk to her after my dogs were picked up (after hearing the other neighbor's account of what she saw - the other neighbor said my dogs didn't leave our back yard), she said that she just wanted to keep them safe because they were running down the street. She said that she doesn't hold anything against us. Yeah, right.

I'll try to talk to T, particularly about the stuff that involves her. I had been wishing that I asked T more about the kinds of stuff that I hear second-hand from my friend, but most of the time I don't think she would tell me and doesn't want me to ask about her.

Who needs real life, anyway? I'm with you there. Uh huh, and avoiding real life is one of the biggest things T keeps targeting. I'm plenty willing to just escape from it and just live through the computer.

[Wants2Fly]

Rapunzel, I would feel a lot like you if these things had happened to me. I can understand completely why you are triggered.

(((((((((((((((((((Rapunzel)))))))))))))))))))))))

I wish I was in a better place myself so I could see the other angles on things. I know that it can be my sensitive and defensive interpretations of event that make them seem all negative, and other people's interpretations can shed a more positive light on things. I hope some people here can help you with this.

Hi Rap,
I think that fence needs to go up a.s.a.p.- I hope that you can afford one-a big, tall one that you cannot see through. How rude those neighbors are. Next time the dog comes near you or your dogs grab the cell phone and call the police and tell them that your neighbor's dog is attacking YOU. They'll have to come over and take care of it. Better yet, tell them that they are attacking your kids. The cops absolutely HAVE to respond to that.
Try that, Rap.
Can you talk to your therapist about your insecurities and how you're feeling? You have to otherwise, you may have to get a new therapist. Aren't you supposed to feel secure and safe with a therapist? Well, this one isn't offering that to you and you may be better off with one who does. But try talking to her first.

[Rapunzel]

(((((((( Wants2 ))))))))))) Thanks for the hug. I guess things could always be worse.

Pickles, yes, a fence is very important. I hope I'll be able to afford one, but all the money spent on fines has taken away from that possibility. I will see what I can do in the next few weeks. I do also need to talk to T about those feelings, however, it is much more me than it is her. I actually feel more safe and secure, and more cared about and more helped, than I ever have with anyone else. It's just never enough, and that is probably mostly because of something going on with me. A lot of it is probably transference.

[Fuzzybear]

((((((((((((((((( Rap ))))))))))))))))

Love ya,
Fuzzy

you know what I think about your T...... I don't think its you, its her (T's shouldn't play favourites ...) Sorry I was so preoccupied with my own crap and didn't answer this before. People here are as "real" as people IRL and you're entitled to be here as much as you wish. I wish you could find a T who values you as much as people here do.... or that things would shift a bit more with your T ..... Having "evidence" that our T's cares about others more than us would be a trigger for anyone IMO
xoxoxo

[Wants2Fly]

I think FuzzyBear has a good point about T showing favorites. Even if a T does develop a closer relationship with some clients than others, it does seem unprofessional to do it in a way that is obvious to some clients.

[Rapunzel]

((((((((( Fuzzy )))))))))) Thanks for your support.

I'm not at all sure that T actually is playing favorites, and the only way that I find out about what she does or says with someone else is that I my friend sometimes tells me. I have needed to talk about feeling like T doesn't really care about me for some time now, and that is a really hard thing to bring up. There's more on that in my "Should I Tell T" thread in Psychotherapy. It's the same issue and it will keep getting triggered until I do get it worked out.

[Wants2Fly]

Hi again Rap -- Is it possible that your friend is playing a little one-up game with you, dropping little bits of information that reveal how "close" she is to the T to demonstrate: I am more loved by T than you are.

Perhaps the issue with with your friend . . .

[Rapunzel]

Maybe, but l have sometimes asked her about T, particularly when she knew her much better than I did because I was new and had never actually met T until after doing online therapy for several months. And I do want the information still, I just wish that T would tell me and I didn't have to get it second-hand. When my friend told me about the extra session due to a cancellation, that was one of the worst hurts because I had mentioned asking about cancellations, and after she told me she sensed that I was upset and said maybe she shouldn't have told me that. I wasn't sure why she did - that's still a painful wound and it was several months ago.

[Perna]

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Rapunzel said:
And I do want the information still, I just wish that T would tell me and I didn't have to get it second-hand.

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Ah, but have you ever told T that's what you want? They're not mind-readers and if you don't ask questions (like me, I never asked for anything) it's very hard for them to know what you want/"need" and they have to do a lot of guessing in the dark (which can be troublesome for them if they guess wrong and make you further unhappy).

I would get your own relationship going with your T instead of the inbetween one, like you're the stepchild, with your friend being a preferred "sibling." Your friend's therapy is not related to yours in any way and your relationship/knowledge of your T shouldn't be secondhand like that either.

[Rapunzel]

I see T tomorrow, and I hope I can bring that issue up. There are always so many things I want to talk about, and all I manage is to get started on one, and we go into whatever that one is in depth and wherever that takes us, and there is not time for the rest. Maybe there would be time if I could keep going and not withdraw into silence for three fourths of the time.

Id find another T. Find another friend also if she enjoys seeing your pain by disclosing stuff that she knows effects you. We tend to allow this stuff into our lifes until we know better!

Take care.

[Wants2Fly]

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mouse_ said:
Id find another T. Find another friend also if she enjoys seeing your pain by disclosing stuff that she knows effects you. We tend to allow this stuff into our lifes until we know better!

Take care.

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I'm leaning in that direction, too.

[Rapunzel]

Well, I'm still learning too, and ought to know better. I misstep and talk about things that upset her, and I am mortified when she is upset. If she saw this thread, she probably wouldn't speak to me for weeks. I guess the difference is that I really should know better than to say things that upset her and sometimes I don't think enough before saying what I am thinking, and I don't think that she gets that. She seems to feel entirely justified in getting mad and cutting me off if I say something she doesn't like. But when she says something that hurts me, it takes me hours, days, or longer to realize what it was that hurt me, and even then I just think that she probably didn't know that would hurt. I'm not good at even showing it when something hurts me, so when I do it is such a delayed reaction that it seems to come out of the blue and by that time it probably looks like I wasn't really hurt and saying that I was is just a calculated move for revenge.

Okay, I have a very slow wick on my explosions, and hers is fast - she gets set off and blows up immediately, while I hold it in and absorb it for a long time first. It makes me seem manipulative when I don't mean to be at all and then I am confused about what I supposedly even did wrong.

Part of that might be not recognizing at first that I have a right to be hurt or offended. But I have pretty much given up telling this friend about my problems because we always seem to be in crisis at the same time, and can't have a two-way conversation that is mutually supportive - the focus has to be on one or the other and it's a problem if I try to get a turn when she is wanting to talk. I can save it for later, so I do, indefinitely. And she doesn't seem to believe me that I can hurt about something later when I didn't show any reaction at first. Once I have said or shown that I wasn't feeling anything, she thinks it must just not be a big deal. But I don't know that it's a big deal until much later sometimes.

We're just different. One isn't better or worse than the other.

[Soidhonia]

((((((((((((RAPUNZEL)))))))))
I am very sorry that you are having this conflict at this time with the neighbors. I hope things get better soon. Take care. Soidhonia

[Fuzzybear]

((((((((((((((( Rap )))))))))))))))

The more I hear about this, the more I agree with mouse's post

It doesn't have to be about better or worse though......or about wrong or right......

[Rapunzel]

I really do appreciate the support here. I talked about some of this today with T - how I take forever to notice that something hurts me, and my patterns involved in that. I am starting to see how I keep stuff like that happening all around me, and how I set people up to give me just the kind of responses that most of you here are giving me.

I need to back up a little bit. One reason that I am more comfortable posting online about my problems than actually talking about them IRL is that I am so scared of emotional invalidation. I grew up being told that what I felt or thought was all wrong and that if I was unhappy then I was selfish and ungrateful, etc. It became so engrained in me that now I not only expect to be invalidated, but I invalidate myself, and I don't even wait to have a feeling before I shut it down and invalidate it. Then I set people up to respond to my invalidation - the options I leave you are to either tell me that I'm right and I really am worthless, or I am wrong and deserve to be cared about. It's awkward either way, isn't it?

From there, I keep the arguments up, claiming that everything is all my fault, ... I do it here and IRL and everywhere. I am sorry and I will work on it, but it's going to be a hard habit to change.

T did validate that it does take me that long (hours, days, weeks, even sometimes years) to notice that something hurts me, and that even if it does seem to someone else like my hurt is made up when I finally do realize it, I really was hurt all along. It helps so much that she understood that.

Okay, I have a long way to go and I really need to stop invalidating myself. If you catch me doing it, call me on it, okay?

Thanks.

Rap

[selfy]

pick up the dog and chuck it thru the window, thatd sure teach the lil bugger to stay outa ya yard!!!
on a more serious note,,,, u aint worthless.... if u were, y would i be writing this post? u are cared about by every 1.... ok? life may suck ,but i will always want to listen to u, be it in PM or chat. im sure many others will agree with me. so feel free to talk to me, even if u think i will b pissed off, coz trust me i wont b.
tc (((((((((((((((((((((((hugs 4 u))))))))))))))))))))))))))
cheer up or the happy face will poke u with his stick.....just kiddin, hes nice really

self

[Rapunzel]

(((((((( self ))))))))))) Thanks. I got a chuckle out of your post, and it is nice to be cared about.

For a while I was thinking about posting about how rotten Mother's Day is because I'm a total failure and I don't deserve for my kids to give me stuff, and say nice things, and all that. But that would just be more of the same - invalidating myself again, wouldn't it? I'd better not do that. I feel that way on and off, but for the moment I have enough clarity not to.

[Wants2Fly]

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Rapunzel said:
But that would just be more of the same - invalidating myself again, wouldn't it? I'd better not do that. I feel that way on and off, but for the moment I have enough clarity not to.

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Now that's progress! Brava! Give yourself a pat on the back. And write down the moments of progress and feeling better so that you can remind yourself of them in the darkest times.

[Irine]

good idea, wantstofly

More hugs!!! I hope you're feeling better.