https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...speak-yourself

Today, I spoke up for myself to someone who has a very aggressive personality and who often speaks without thinking first. I kindly told the person that I wanted to offer them some feedback, after they responded to me via email very rudely. I pointed out assertively how I interpreted their tone and what they wrote, and asked them to try to see the situation from my point of view, which they refused to do.

They were surprised that I spoke up for myself after they insulted me, because they tried to belittle me and justify why they were so rude to me. Instead of acknowledging their behavior and apologizing for it, or acknowledge my point of view and show empathy of how they could see through my eyes, how their behavior made me feel, they just defended their behavior and accused me of being sensitive and over reactive, which is what some people do, when they don't want to take responsibility for their behavior.

I asked this person for advice and instead of offering me advice, they ridiculed me, insulted me, hurt my feelings, and put conditions on their "help" if I wanted it. Very arrogant, I thought. So, I assertively spoke up for myself and thanked this person for showing me their true colors. Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.

Does anyone have any advice or insight for me? I wouldn't have posted about this experience, but it was a very stressful encounter, and this was the first time where I stood up for myself without second guessing my actions afterwards.

I just want you to pat yourself on the back for doing it. People like us, who don't always feel like we have a right to speak up and defend ourselves, need more examples like this to be inspired by. You did everything right: you approached it politely, with the aim to solve the problem diplomatically, and when the attacks kept coming, only then did your claws came out.

You probably have been replaying those emails in your head over and over again, maybe shuddering when you think about it all? That just shows that you care about people's feelings, and didn't want to be provoked into saying those things. I think that shows the high integrity of your character, more than anything!

[Fuzzybear]

I completely agree with Bjornen, I too struggle with those... aggressive personalities Thanks for the inspiring post

You did everything “right” - you tried to discuss things diplomatically and you only showed your claws after this person refused (repeatedly) to behave with kindness or integrity.

Yuck I agree

to you

[jl_234]

This really hit me hard because I never speak up for myself
I think you did something really brave and powerful, I hope things turn out well for you and that person

[Grath]

What Bjørnen said. I admire you for your courage. People like this, who are overly confident of themselves and them always being in the right, irritate me extremely. I try to avoid them where I can and wish I had the courage to speak up like you.

Just adding more content to this thread because of something that happened today. I had another collision with an aggressive personality again. And by collision, I mean, I reached out to this person because they have contacts with people who could help me with some creative aspirations. I've known this person a long time too, so I figured they'd treat me with respect.

Boy, was I wrong.

Knowing that I don't have a lot of time with two jobs, and this person is always busy with something I made sure to ask this person to communicate via email. I sent my questions to them via email and asked for an email response when they have time.

But, they refused. Instead, they told (not ask) me to download Google voice so that I could record the conversation with them, and then transcribe it later. Talk about lazy and selfish. They know I work two jobs, and that my questions could easily be answered in written form (which is what I told them that I preferred, because of the types of questions I asked concerned specific information that I can't find on my own, that I need).

I stood my ground (this exchange happened via instant messenger) and responded that I wasn't going to download Google Voice because I don't have the time, and that I would prefer they just write a response to my questions instead. They refused to, which I think is just ridiculous. Then, don't offer me your advice and assistance if you're not going to actually help me.

If someone emailed me a list of questions, and said that they didn't have time for a phone conversation, of course I would respect their choice of communication and just respond to their email with my answers. It's not that hard. I've done that with people in the past.

After I told them that their way didn't work for me, they stopped responding. No apology, nothing. No wishing me well. Just a rude person.

I will find other ways to get the type of information I need. Funny, you can find out who is in your corner, when you reach out to people for help and assistance. You learn who is there for you, and who isn't.

[salus]

Sometimes it takes hitting rock bottom before you get to the point you don't care what people think then strangely your self esteem grows

Originally Posted by salus

Sometimes it takes hitting rock bottom before you get to the point you don't care what people think then strangely your self esteem grows

???? I'm not sure how to respond to your comment.

[Sassandclass]

Originally Posted by cielpur

Does anyone have any advice or insight for me? I wouldn't have posted about this experience, but it was a very stressful encounter, and this was the first time where I stood up for myself without second guessing my actions afterwards.

I think you did fantastic! I’m proud of you for being assertive and not aggressive with this person. That shows real strength of character. Something that’s helped me to be assertive has been “The Assertiveness Workbook”. I started realizing in life that I was constantly being walked over, pushed around, and in the end BLAMED for everything that other people did to me! I had had enough! I quickly began reading everything I could about why this was happening and it turns out I had a very passive nature or personality. So I set about changing that.
Now, I take regular opportunities to stand up for myself, being assertive, and to feel good about doing so.

Something I found really interesting is that when you start being assertive not everyone will like you for it. Pushy personalities want you to remain a push over - because it gives them what they want. So you will get some kick back for sure. It’s a battle of wills for awhile. But just keep being assertive and you will get to the point where people either exit your life (great! You don’t need those people anyways) or they respect you way more!

Let me know if you want to chat more about this. It’s been a scary but wonderful journey for me and I’d be happy to share some tips and tricks with you.

All the best )

[Snowkapped]

When you've been utterly destroyed by bullies, used by them for their gain and exploited to the point where you can hardly function, then there is nothing left to lose by returning the insults or aggression.

Originally Posted by Sassandclass

Something I found really interesting is that when you start being assertive not everyone will like you for it. Pushy personalities want you to remain a push over - because it gives them what they want. So you will get some kick back for sure. It’s a battle of wills for awhile. But just keep being assertive and you will get to the point where people either exit your life (great! You don’t need those people anyways) or they respect you way more!

I have definitely experienced the "push back" from the domineering people I've been assertive with. Each time I asserted myself, I'd notice they would immediately resort to more gaslighting techniques, more threats, and shaming.

A lot of people have exited my life when I finally decided to be assertive with them and establish my boundary that I will say "no," to their requests, and I will confront them when they act like jerks to me, to let them know that that is not ok.

But it is difficult. Finding people who like and respect me for who I am has always proved challenging. I'm no longer willing to put up with what I used to put up with from people. I can't "fake it til you make it," with people, so maybe that is my downfall.

Originally Posted by Snowkapped

When you've been utterly destroyed by bullies, used by them for their gain and exploited to the point where you can hardly function, then there is nothing left to lose by returning the insults or aggression.

There is nothing left to lose by returning the insults. Well, I have tried that and since they already took from me what they wanted, I still lost out when I fought back with words.

Insulting people who have bullied me and manipulated me has had no effect on them at all. It's affected me though. It makes me feel even worse because what's the point of insulting someone who just destroyed an opportunity for me with their lies and deception? They could care less if I try to establish boundaries with them after-the-fact. So, I understand what you're saying, but I guess it doesn't seem worth-while for me, to argue with someone who won't respect me or who won't check-themselves for their own bad behavior if I point it out to them. I have tried. With no luck.

[Sassandclass]

Originally Posted by cielpur

I have definitely experienced the "push back" from the domineering people I've been assertive with. Each time I asserted myself, I'd notice they would immediately resort to more gaslighting techniques, more threats, and shaming.


A lot of people have exited my life when I finally decided to be assertive with them and establish my boundary that I will say "no," to their requests, and I will confront them when they act like jerks to me, to let them know that that is not ok.


But it is difficult. Finding people who like and respect me for who I am has always proved challenging. I'm no longer willing to put up with what I used to put up with from people. I can't "fake it til you make it," with people, so maybe that is my downfall.

I understand what you mean. When you first start being assertive it feels like... ... like a personality transplant. Haha! Even though you’re still “you”. But where once you’d be passive, you’re assertive. And that’s a whole different feeling. And you get a WHOLE DIFFERENT reaction from others. Aggressive people push back. Manipulative people gaslight and try guilt tripping you. Once people pleasing is not the main objective people tend to start disappearing.

But the thing is, we are not put on this earth to be dancing bears for others in some sort of circus. That’s how people pleasing made me feel. Like I was personally responsible for the joy and happiness and entertainment of everyone around me.

Assertiveness helps us to find the people who truly respect us. And to be able to pin point the people who really DON’T respect us in our life. Then we are able to gravitate towards the ones who DO respect us.

:lifeskill :highfive!

HUGS!!!

Originally Posted by Sassandclass

I understand what you mean. When you first start being assertive it feels like... ... like a personality transplant. Haha! Even though you’re still “you”. But where once you’d be passive, you’re assertive. And that’s a whole different feeling. And you get a WHOLE DIFFERENT reaction from others. Aggressive people push back. Manipulative people gaslight and try guilt tripping you. Once people pleasing is not the main objective people tend to start disappearing.

But the thing is, we are not put on this earth to be dancing bears for others in some sort of circus. That’s how people pleasing made me feel. Like I was personally responsible for the joy and happiness and entertainment of everyone around me.

Assertiveness helps us to find the people who truly respect us. And to be able to pin point the people who really DON’T respect us in our life. Then we are able to gravitate towards the ones who DO respect us.

:lifeskill :highfive!

HUGS!!!

Yes, being assertive now in my late 40s, after living my life as a "dancing bear" people-pleasing doormat (which never helped me to get my emotional needs met from the people I "helped"), is like experiencing a personality transplant. Very well put, Sassandclass.

What I have to get used to, is not feeling guilt or shame when I put up healthy boundaries with people I know don't have my best interest in mind. I can think of current family members (siblings and cousins) who push back with verbal gaslighting when I try to establish boundaries with them as an adult. They are so used to walking all over me because I let them do that in the past.

[hermitbydestiny]

This is what I've learned about journey work: Feel my feelings, identify my unmet need, speak that need into an action plan and repeat as often as necessary. Good to you in doing just that. Now find someone else more willing to assist you in the making of an action plan. And remember empathy buddies are not in the majority; discern as you go. (compassioncourse.org)

Originally Posted by hermitbydestiny

This is what I've learned about journey work: Feel my feelings, identify my unmet need, speak that need into an action plan and repeat as often as necessary. Good to you in doing just that. Now find someone else more willing to assist you in the making of an action plan. And remember empathy buddies are not in the majority; discern as you go. (compassioncourse.org)

So, in your response above...basically you're advising me to seek a life coach via this compassion course? I'm insulted now, especially because you snuck in that course as a suggestion without respecting me enough to explain your reasoning for posting a link to it. I don't need a life coach to guide me. Thanks.

Just today, I was at the grocery store and an old guy was looking for pudding in the pet food aisle. So I walked him to the baking aisle and found the pudding he was looking for. He tapped me on the shoulder and told me, "Thanks but you don't need to be so nice." So, I'm good with compassion. Thanks.

What I need, is to find people who I don't need to defend myself against. If you'd advertised a Hogwarts School course on magic spells that would be more applicable. I'd like to cast curses on the people who've used and manipulated me.

I have worked hard to get where I am but it still hasn't prevented me from being socially manipulated, emotionally abused, shunned, lied to and alienated by others.

Manipulative people are experts at faking empathy for others. They pretend they want to help you; they pretend to be your friend, or to have a romantic interest in you. There is just no way to discern who is real and who isn't, anymore. It's just not possible. The only way I can discern who is real and who isn't, is by judging people based on their actions, because, as the

lyrics go, "words are very unnecessary/they can only do harm." Actions always speak louder than words. And usually, it's only after someone does something to me that I can discern their level of genuineness.

[Sassandclass]

Originally Posted by cielpur

So, in your response above...basically you're advising me to seek a life coach via this compassion course? I'm insulted now, especially because you snuck in that course as a suggestion without respecting me enough to explain your reasoning for posting a link to it. I don't need a life coach to guide me. Thanks.


Just today, I was at the grocery store and an old guy was looking for pudding in the pet food aisle. So I walked him to the baking aisle and found the pudding he was looking for. He tapped me on the shoulder and told me, "Thanks but you don't need to be so nice." So, I'm good with compassion. Thanks.


What I need, is to find people who I don't need to defend myself against. If you'd advertised a Hogwarts School course on magic spells that would be more applicable. I'd like to cast curses on the people who've used and manipulated me.


I have worked hard to get where I am but it still hasn't prevented me from being socially manipulated, emotionally abused, shunned, lied to and alienated by others.


Manipulative people are experts at faking empathy for others. They pretend they want to help you; they pretend to be your friend, or to have a romantic interest in you. There is just no way to discern who is real and who isn't, anymore. It's just not possible. The only way I can discern who is real and who isn't, is by judging people based on their actions, because, as the

lyrics go, "words are very unnecessary/they can only do harm." Actions always speak louder than words. And usually, it's only after someone does something to me that I can discern their level of genuineness.

It’s true that manipulative people will always go after the nicest people to hurt.
I find that the best way to see what people are really like is to watch them. How do they treat other people? Their family? Their friends? Do they have long stable friendships, or short turbulent ones? All these things can help you to see what kind of person they really are.

Originally Posted by Sassandclass

It’s true that manipulative people will always go after the nicest people to hurt.
I find that the best way to see what people are really like is to watch them. How do they treat other people? Their family? Their friends? Do they have long stable friendships, or short turbulent ones? All these things can help you to see what kind of person they really are.

But the same has been said about me. People have misjudged me based on the same criteria you listed. People who have long, stable friendships aren't necessarily nice, genuine people. People who come from stable, functional family homes, aren't necessarily nice, genuine people. To state that as the norm seems short-sighted, I think. '

When I was involved with a creative group a long time ago, many of the people in the group met the criteria above, but quite a few of them were horrible to me when a popular person in the group spread rumors about me that weren't true, that led to my character assassination and being socially shunned. None of those "nice people" bothered to find out the truth from me, and misjudged me based on the lies this domineering person spread about me.

You can't/shouldn't judge a book by its cover because you'll be wrong, most of the time. I never go by first impressions anymore, because people can put on a good act when they want something from you. So, just because someone appears trustworthy because they come from a good family or have gads of friends since childhood, doesn't mean that's who they really are.

I dated a guy who appeared to be perfect on the surface - great job, lots of friends, a volunteer, pursued hobbies, had money, academic credentials, large family, friendly, easy to talk to, good looking - but he was a monster to me. While we dated, he cheated on me, lied about it, and emotionally abused me to the point where I had to go into therapy afterward just to recover from dating him.

Yes, I agree with you that you should watch how people treat other people to gauge whether or not they are a good person. But like I said, the most manipulative, narcissistic personalities are masters of disguise. They can fool the most discerning person with their act, if they want to. I've been fooled plenty of times, so it takes a lot for me to trust someone now.

[Sassandclass]

More of what I’m speaking of is persons with a steady, non changing pattern of discord and broken relationships. Toxic interactions, and disrespectful treatment of others. This is not a “first impression” type of situation. This can take a long time of watching people in their interactions before you’re able to truly decipher if they have the traits you find desirable as a friend.

Narcissists for example can come across as extremely likeable and charming. But they can be really manipulative, abusive, and toxic.

I never judge a book by its cover. Some of my best friends are people who I didn’t “hit it off with” right away. But time really fettered out their true colours and they proved to be good people who I wanted in my life.

What I’m saying is that you could try using your inner intuition, and let time pass while you watch how people are. Their true nature will eventually show itself.

[Sassandclass]

Ps: And you have every right to have in your life only those who treat you with respect and dignity

[hermitbydestiny]

You sound frustrated with my comment and I can see why given I did not put your quote in that I was referring to, which is "But it is difficult. Finding people who like and respect me for who I am has always proved challenging."

I can see how my post appeared to blow you off, which was NOT my intent. Thank you for pointing that out; however, using insults as a backlash is not as helpful as asking me to clarify my comment given your understanding, which I would have been glad to have done and would have learned from our encounter what would have worked better for the both of us. Easy peasy.

Originally Posted by hermitbydestiny

You sound frustrated with my comment and I can see why given I did not put your quote in that I was referring to, which is "But it is difficult. Finding people who like and respect me for who I am has always proved challenging."

I can see how my post appeared to blow you off, which was NOT my intent. Thank you for pointing that out; however, using insults as a backlash is not as helpful as asking me to clarify my comment given your understanding, which I would have been glad to have done and would have learned from our encounter what would have worked better for the both of us. Easy peasy.

Well you directly told me to find a life coach which is not what I asked for in my original post. And you wrote it in a glib tone, as if I NEED a life coach. Who are you to tell me what I need?! And why would you write something like that, without realizing how it comes across as irrelevant to my thread's topic?

I don't NEED a life coach. And, as you stated in your first post in my thread, it's good to "speak that need into action," which I did by expressing my frustration with the glib way you responded in my thread to my original post.

Then you glibly tell me to find a life coach, in so many words, and post a link without any explanation. Yet, you expect me to ask you to explain it to me? That comes across rather arrogant on your part.

If I ever include a link in my response to someone's thread, I always explain why I include the link, out of consideration for the poster. Which you did not do. You assumed for some reason that it was ok to randomly tell me to find a life coach, and then you post some random link about a compassion course which has zero to do with my thread's topic of how I feel when I have to assert myself with strong personalities.

Basically, I found your post glib and arrogant.

That is how I interpreted your post. Then you come back, to admonish me for not politely asking you to clarify your post? Are you serious?

The tone of your post reminds me of a former professor who never took what others said into consideration, because he was only interested in his own opinion as he thought he was right and everyone else was wrong.

The way you posted here multiple times, makes me think that you are not someone who likes to be confronted for the way you communicate with people, when it rubs them the wrong way. When you say something glib that you know people will take offense to. It's very manipulative on your part.

I don't know you or anything about you, so I'm just giving you my feedback based on the two posts you wrote here in my thread.

This thread can be closed as its not helpful to me anymore.

[FallDuskTrain]

Originally Posted by hermitbydestiny

This is what I've learned about journey work: Feel my feelings, identify my unmet need, speak that need into an action plan and repeat as often as necessary. Good to you in doing just that. Now find someone else more willing to assist you in the making of an action plan. And remember empathy buddies are not in the majority; discern as you go. (compassioncourse.org)

Have you found this compassion course to be effective?

Originally Posted by Sassandclass

More of what I’m speaking of is persons with a steady, non changing pattern of discord and broken relationships. Toxic interactions, and disrespectful treatment of others. This is not a “first impression” type of situation. This can take a long time of watching people in their interactions before you’re able to truly decipher if they have the traits you find desirable as a friend.

Narcissists for example can come across as extremely likeable and charming. But they can be really manipulative, abusive, and toxic.

I never judge a book by its cover. Some of my best friends are people who I didn’t “hit it off with” right away. But time really fettered out their true colours and they proved to be good people who I wanted in my life.

What I’m saying is that you could try using your inner intuition, and let time pass while you watch how people are. Their true nature will eventually show itself.

I appreciate your respond again, but I have to disagree with your view, that people in stable, long-term friendships are more trust worthy than people who have shorter friendships, etc. based on my own personal life experiences.

I haven't spoken to any childhood friends in more than 30 years. Does that automatically make me untrustworthy? Because I don't keep in touch with people I went to elementary, middle school, high school and college with? Life changes and relationships either continue or they end for a myriad of reasons that have nothing to do with a person's ability to be a good person to another person.

I am Facebook friends with people I was socially active with years ago, but eventually our social interactions stopped with each other, because our lives diverged for different reasons (they had children, they moved away, we grew apart, etc.). A friend I went to college with moved to another state; a close friend moved back to her country. Another friend got married and had children. So I never see them.

Does that mean I'm incapable of having long-term friendships? No, it doesn't.

I work multiple jobs. I have no time to socialize outside of working as a result. Does that mean I'm incapable of maintaining long-term friendships? No, it doesn't.

What I feel like your posts convey, is the belief (that you believe), that if a person doesn't come from a stable family background, with friendships that stretch far back to their childhood, then they are not someone to be trusted. I just don't agree with that belief, because of my personal experiences with people from all walks of life.

My social life ebbs and flows based on what's going on in my life. I don't think it's fair to limit people to the standard that unless they have maintained friendships since they were kids or in high school, that means they aren't capable of being a good friend or someone to trust. I definitely wouldn't fit your criteria. And yet I went to grad school.

I started this thread to vent about how scary it can be for me to assert myself after living my life as a codependent doormat to other people for so long. But the more I practice assertion when the situation calls for it, the more I realize it's my right to set boundaries with everyone I talk to online or in person, so that I don't let them take advantage of me.

I think it's good to have different opinions and to share them in conversations like this. But I get frustrated when people who respond to me, expect me to always have to agree with them 100%. I don't think that's fair.