[BasketCaseMom]

I knew I had low self esteem, but after taking that quiz, I found that I had none at all. I scored a 2 on it. Each day I feel a bit worse. I cry everyday, when I look in the mirror.

My problem is, I think, no wait, believe, that I am ugly, fat, and replusive to others. I don't know how my husband stands the sight of me. The poor guy, he is a good looking man, and he is saddled with me forever. What was he thinking?

I have many issues with my mental health, I am a schizophrenic, I have no self worth and am often in a depression as well. None of these things helps me lift my opion of my self in the least bit. I don't know how I am supposed to feel better about myself if I have all these things wrong with me. It seems hopeless at times, actually most of the time.

I wish I was a better wife, I have no interest in sex most times. I cringe at the thought of being naked, I should not be allowed to be naked ever as I am so disgusting.

My husband gets frustrated with me when I tell him how I really feel. Honestly, I have no idea where these feelings come from, but I truly believe that women are useless and only good for cleaning the house, taking care of kids, and servicing their husbands. Ih ave thought that for as long as I can remember. My husband says I have a very warped view of life and how things really are.

I don't know how to relate to others, I don't know how to change.

[Perna]

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Munkee said:
My problem is, I think, no wait, believe, that I am ugly, fat, and replusive to others. I don't know how my husband stands the sight of me. The poor guy, he is a good looking man, and he is saddled with me forever. What was he thinking?

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Oh, Munkee, I'm so sorry you feel this way. I was helped by realizing other people DO love me and appreciate me and I love and respect them so, logically, they must see something in me that I don't see? I worked from there. You say you believe you are ugly, fat and repulsive to others but your husband says you are not (to him). Take that on faith. You have no "proof" you are ugly, fat, and repulsive to others; in fact, you have "proof" of the opposite because that is what others say and how they treat you. You cannot discredit other people, you would have to call your husband a liar! Others see what they see and know what they know and must be respected for having their own view and reporting it.

But anyway, just "believe" you are a fine looking woman and look for it in yourself. Since others see it, it must be there. You may have to wait to see it in yourself but that has nothing to do with whether it is there or not. I can't see my money in the bank but I've got some there and act like it when I write a check or use my credit card :-) Use others' opinions of you like a well-stocked credit card. Eventually it will become easier for you to have faith the "money" is there for real.

[mollydaisy]

Obviously somebody thinks your wonderful, or your husband wouldn't care so much about you.

[Rapunzel]

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I truly believe that women are useless and only good for cleaning the house, taking care of kids, and servicing their husbands. Ih ave thought that for as long as I can remember.

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((((((( Munkee )))))))))

Let's look at that statement. I suspect that recognizing that belief here where you are discussing a problem shows that you know at some level that that is a false belief and is at the root of your problem. What do you think? Recognizing it is a nice step. Changing it comes next.

If you told any other woman in the world what you said that you believe about women, how do you think they would react? Would we accept that? Probably not, unless we also share your problem with very low self-esteem (I won't say none, because 2 isn't zero). Okay, do you really believe that all women are useless? Would you tell me that I am useless because I am a woman? I didn't think so. Okay, so what makes you so special?

Maybe you will change your story and say that it is because you have schizophrenia. If that's the case, let me tell you about my brother. He had schizophrenia, and he killed himself because he believed that nobody would ever want to marry someone with schizophrenia, and that he couldn't do anything useful. He was a very intelligent person, a talented artist, geneologist - had naturally taken up the role of family historian. But he felt useless. He didn't like his body. His medication made him put on some weight. He was sure that nobody would ever be attracted to him. I read your posts and wish that my brother had been able to see that people with schizophrenia can get married and do things that are important to them. He could have too, if he had known that he could. Would you call him useless too?

I hope that my words don't sound too harsh. I'm just trying to challenge your beliefs and show you that the things that you see as limits don't have to be. Maybe nobody has told you that before, or maybe they have. Self worth doesn't come instantly, but if you concentrate on something that you can do, then it will come.

TC,
Rap

[Rapunzel]

p.s. I was no good at cleaning, taking care of the kids, and I've never been all that interested in sex. If you can clean the house and take care of the kids, I'm pretty impressed with people who can do those things well. That's an extremely important job, not useless at all. But I couldn't do it anymore and had to get out and do something else. I'm still married and still have kids, but we try to divide the work a little more, and get the kids to help out more, and I have a job and go to school.

If you are able to do the mom job, I think that is a wonderful accomplishment. But if that isn't fulfilling for you, maybe it would help you to find other roles that work better for you.

[BasketCaseMom]

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Rapunzel said:
p.s. I was no good at cleaning, taking care of the kids, and I've never been all that interested in sex. If you can clean the house and take care of the kids, I'm pretty impressed with people who can do those things well. That's an extremely important job, not useless at all. But I couldn't do it anymore and had to get out and do something else. I'm still married and still have kids, but we try to divide the work a little more, and get the kids to help out more, and I have a job and go to school.

If you are able to do the mom job, I think that is a wonderful accomplishment. But if that isn't fulfilling for you, maybe it would help you to find other roles that work better for you.

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You were not too harsh. I think I needed that infact. Fine so not all women are useless. I guess it's just me and I project my feelings onto an entire gender.

I am sorry about your brother. I know how horrible he must have felt. It is very hard to live like this, but I push myslef to keep going if not for me, for my family. I cannot abandon my husband and son. So I have to keep on for them. If it was just me, it would be a different story. Not only does a person with schizophrenia often feel depressed and useless, but the other problems with delusions, hallucinations and in my case paranoia are unbareable at times. Not to mention that stigma of being "mentally ill". Oh no! He or She is a lunatic! People shy away when they find that out. This is why I hide my illness from everyone except my husband. Your brother must have felt so alone.

As far as the mom job for me, it's full time. My son has Asperger's syndrome and it's tough on everyone. He is not the normal five year old, so he gives me a real run for the money most days. AS for finding something more? Well, I was never very good at holding a job, I cannot concentrate for long enough. I also have little motivation. School? Forget it. I canot bring myself to actually read the materials requested. I always struggled with school and work. So Mom seems to fit best to me at the moment.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just wanted to say thank you to you.

PS: I am not too good cleaning either. I only do it so I don't have to live in filth.

[spiritual_emergency]

<blockquote>
Rapunzel: let me tell you about my brother...

Your story touched me Rapunzel. No need to acknowledge this response, I just wanted you to know that.

Munkee: It is very hard to live like this, but I push myslef to keep going if not for me, for my family. I cannot abandon my husband and son. So I have to keep on for them. If it was just me, it would be a different story. Not only does a person with schizophrenia often feel depressed and useless, but the other problems with delusions, hallucinations and in my case paranoia are unbareable at times. Not to mention that stigma of being "mentally ill". Oh no! He or She is a lunatic! People shy away when they find that out. This is why I hide my illness from everyone except my husband. Your brother must have felt so alone.

I remember quite early in my own recovery process, my sister commented that I seemed to have a lack of self-esteem. I laughed and replied that in order to have a sense of "self-esteem" one must first have a sense of "self" to attach the "esteem" to!

One of the best models I've found for understanding my own experience is that of ego collapse. The ego is a structure of the personality that is made up of what we believe to be true about ourselves, others, the world around us, and our place in it. We form these beliefs as based on our relationships, our experiences, the roles we play and the activities we engage in. All of these combined, create our ego -- which for most of us, creates our sense of who we are. It stands to reason that if you have no sense of self, you cannot possibly have a sense of self esteem. It was essential for my own recovery that I manage to create a new sense of self-identity. How do we do that? I think we have to look to how we did it the first time around: The ego is a structure of the personality that is made up of what we believe to be true about ourselves, others, the world around us, and our place in it. We form these beliefs as based on our relationships, our experiences, the roles we play and the activities we engage in.

In a manner of speaking, this stage can involve a lot of reality testing -- much as Rapunzel challenged you to examine if what you believe is true about women is really true. After all, Belief and Truth are not synonyms; the mere fact that we believe something is true doesn't mean it is. Sometimes, what is true is obscured by our perspective. If we shift the perspective we may find the Truth or at least, a glimpse of it.

For recovery to occur, healing has to unfold on at least five distinct levels: physical, emotional, mental, spiritual and relational. The relational aspect can possibly be better understood if we draw a diagram:
[*] Picture yourself standing in a circle. That's you. Your relationship with your self must be addressed within this space.
[*] Now, draw another circle around the first one. That's where your closest intimates go -- your husband, your son, perhaps other family members and friends. These two circles are the most intimate and also the places where we're most vulnerable.
[*] Now, draw another circle around the first two. This circle encompasses the relationships we have with the immediate larger world -- work, school and other individuals within our communities and extended families.

We can keep drawing circles to represent ever expanding relationships -- culture, country, continent, world, universe. Within each of those expanding circles, we will have different roles, relationships, activities, experiences and beliefs. All those, together, create our sense of self-identity but it all starts at that very innermost circle where we have our relationship with our self. That one, impacts every other circle. If it isn't healthy, none of the rest of them will be which is why it's such an essential task.

Rebuilding the self is a lengthy process and it's not a linear process, it's a multidimensional. But as we interact with the world around us we will find ourselves creating new roles, new experiences, new beliefs, new activities, new relationships, and thus, a new sense of self-identity. Slowly, we come back down to our bodies.

I'll close this post with a couple of links -- food for thought stuff. Feel free to read them, take from them what you find useful and to discard that which you do not...
[*] The Spirit of Tonglen
[*] <a href=http://spiritualrecoveries.blogspot.com/2006/05/spiritual-emergency-my-definitions-of.html>spiritual_emergency: My Personal Definition of Recovery</a>
[*] <a href=http://spiritualemergency.blogspot.com/2006/01/archetypes-individuation-process.html>The Individuation Process: The Shadow</a>

[Fuzzybear]

((((((( Munkee ))))))))

[moonlite]

Sounds like your in a dwindling spiral of self-invalidation.
Sorry to hear.

[BasketCaseMom]

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spiritual_emergency said:
<blockquote>

I remember quite early in my own recovery process, my sister commented that I seemed to have a lack of self-esteem. I laughed and replied that in order to have a sense of "self-esteem" one must first have a sense of "self" to attach the "esteem" to!

One of the best models I've found for understanding my own experience is that of ego collapse. The ego is a structure of the personality that is made up of what we believe to be true about ourselves, others, the world around us, and our place in it. We form these beliefs as based on our relationships, our experiences, the roles we play and the activities we engage in. All of these combined, create our ego -- which for most of us, creates our sense of who we are. It stands to reason that if you have no sense of self, you cannot possibly have a sense of self esteem. It was essential for my own recovery that I manage to create a new sense of self-identity. How do we do that? I think we have to look to how we did it the first time around: The ego is a structure of the personality that is made up of what we believe to be true about ourselves, others, the world around us, and our place in it. We form these beliefs as based on our relationships, our experiences, the roles we play and the activities we engage in.

In a manner of speaking, this stage can involve a lot of reality testing -- much as Rapunzel challenged you to examine if what you believe is true about women is really true. After all, Belief and Truth are not synonyms; the mere fact that we believe something is true doesn't mean it is. Sometimes, what is true is obscured by our perspective. If we shift the perspective we may find the Truth or at least, a glimpse of it.

For recovery to occur, healing has to unfold on at least five distinct levels: physical, emotional, mental, spiritual and relational. The relational aspect can possibly be better understood if we draw a diagram:
[*] Picture yourself standing in a circle. That's you. Your relationship with your self must be addressed within this space.
[*] Now, draw another circle around the first one. That's where your closest intimates go -- your husband, your son, perhaps other family members and friends. These two circles are the most intimate and also the places where we're most vulnerable.
[*] Now, draw another circle around the first two. This circle encompasses the relationships we have with the immediate larger world -- work, school and other individuals within our communities and extended families.

We can keep drawing circles to represent ever expanding relationships -- culture, country, continent, world, universe. Within each of those expanding circles, we will have different roles, relationships, activities, experiences and beliefs. All those, together, create our sense of self-identity but it all starts at that very innermost circle where we have our relationship with our self. That one, impacts every other circle. If it isn't healthy, none of the rest of them will be which is why it's such an essential task.

Rebuilding the self is a lengthy process and it's not a linear process, it's a multidimensional. But as we interact with the world around us we will find ourselves creating new roles, new experiences, new beliefs, new activities, new relationships, and thus, a new sense of self-identity. Slowly, we come back down to our bodies.

I'll close this post with a couple of links -- food for thought stuff. Feel free to read them, take from them what you find useful and to discard that which you do not...
[*] The Spirit of Tonglen
[*] <a href=http://spiritualrecoveries.blogspot.com/2006/05/spiritual-emergency-my-definitions-of.html>spiritual_emergency: My Personal Definition of Recovery</a>
[*] <a href=http://spiritualemergency.blogspot.com/2006/01/archetypes-individuation-process.html>The Individuation Process: The Shadow</a>



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Thank you so much for the wonderful information. You are dead on when you said that you need a feeling of self first. I think that is my major problem at the moment. I don't have that sense of "self", I am lost really. I need to work on this even it's just small steps. The fact that I am even willing to take the small steps now, is huge for me.

Again, thank you!