it's not worth it

i read all this amazing stuff here... wonderful interactions with wonderful T's. My T is a wonderful guy.. don't get me wrong.. but i feel like poison.

i dont get what i crave because no one knows that i even think about it. No one IRL would ever guess i would sell my family to gypsies in return for gentleness from someone. i long to be talked to softly... in a way that caresses the heart and lets it know it belongs in this world.

i told soli tonight that IRL everyone thinks i dont care... that i'm this gal made of steel that does what she wants and devil be damned. It never occurs to anyone that i have a heart... much one that lays broken on the floor.. bleeding to death..

<font color="#000088"> a long time ago i wrote:
-my spirit is numb and i hear the faint murmur of blood rushing, it reminds me that this hollow shell walks. No person i; no human. If kindred soul resides then heaven must pity that broken thing.</font>

=( ((((((((((hugs)))))))))) that is beautiful poetry you wrote once. it bleeds straight from your heart. what risk might it be to tell someone IRL?
wishing you hope

JelloFluff

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No one IRL would ever guess i would sell my family to gypsies in return for gentleness from someone.

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Do you count your T as being IRL? He is, you know. Why not start with telling him these things? He can provide a safe place to tell those things. Then you can work up to being stronger and able to share with other people in your life. You have been wondering what to talk to your T about in your first session back. Why not this?

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everyone thinks i dont care... that i'm this gal made of steel that does what she wants and devil be damned. It never occurs to anyone that i have a heart

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My T has said that the dissonance between who we really are and who we project to the world is a huge source of stress in our lives. And that to eliminate stress and become more "authentic", we should seek to be who we truly are with everyone in our lives. (Is it possible for you to stop projecting "gal made of steel"?) I am nowhere near achieving this, but I think I have become more authentic than when I first began therapy. A problem for me has been that some of the people who should be closest to me could care less about my feelings, hurting me, etc. They cannot meet my needs so it's hard to be authentic with them, because I then just get hurt. So I am working to minimize my contact with these people. I need people in my life who are more thoughtful and caring so I will encourage relationships with these people in the future. On a scale of 1 to 100 toward being there, I am probably at about 3.

Best wishes to you.

Thanks Kiya.. i discovered something kind of unfortunate - my very best writing happens when i am in the deepest pit. When i feel ok i can't seem to draw on the emotion so much. Dunno why. i have some stuff that i look at now and wonder if i really wrote it. Maybe someday i can write stuff when things aren't so bad.

Sunny you and your T are very right i think. i wish i could stop projecting that image. i try sometimes.. then there is a conflict between what my "old" friends know of me and what i am trying to become... sometimes they laugh. They dont mean to be hurtful, but to them i think it's like i am faking it.. being someone i'm not, which is ironic. i am nowhere near it either... and nowhere near telling my old friends that this is who i really am.

i started doing this back when i was a young teen. i became my own parent in many ways. T has agreed and gone further with that idea. i watched other people and tried to emulate what i saw... which means i learned to act and not *be.* What i told T, as an example was that i learned how to act confident but not be confident. Make sense?

the projection in mnay ways is all i have... i often feel it's all that i am. That inside person, the real me, is incomplete and very fragile. She never got to get "put together." i know a lot of people are afraid to show their true selves... and that is certainly true, but even more is that i dont even know who my true self is... i dont know that there is a "whole" person in here. i am so tangled up in the projection. Some of it is me, some is not... which is which is a very good question. (one that is costing me $140hr )

right now i have found that i seem to be cultivating a love/hate audience. Some people i "test" with my new way of doing things think i'm sweet... and then there are people who have seen me lash out and sweet isn't a word they might choose. i hate it when that happens. i HAVE noticed that this year, since being on my own more, there has been a better response from people because i have been more engaging and the projection is even more of a happy one.

i sometimes find really positive people that i would love to form relationships with but i dont know how. All i know is the projection way... and even then i know how to start a friendship... but then i fall flat. i have zero idea on how to follow through. i mean, my friends can count on me, the old friends even know that... but as far as making a healthy relationship and making it grow? no idea. seriously.

*sigh... your repsonses are always so good sunny.. thnz. Can you move over and share that "3" with me?

I can relate to all of this. I am trying to figure out who the real me is and then find new people to interact with. I did this once before when I just picked up, left my old life behind and started fresh in a new place. This clean sweep worked well except that I'd left a lot of issues unresolved in the past that have now resurfaced. Now I find myself trying to reinvent myself again only this time I can't just cut and run.

I'm not getting what I want or need in my current relationships, but am so overloaded that I can't seem to find new connections that are fulfilling. My husband also sees that I am trying to improve myself and is undermining me every chance he gets. He sees my change as a threat to his way of life.

I'm in the same catch 22 that you both describe, in order to continue my self growth I need to lower my defenses and let people see the true me. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to do it without getting shot to hell by the restless natives.

((((mckell))))

cut and run... how many times has that been used to describe me? too many i think. Thats what i do with anyone who hurts me.

i have moved a lot and tried to make a clean go of it each time.. but like the Dalai Lama said "everywhere you go, there you are." It's like trying to get away from your shadow... thats why i really decided to go to therapy. i had a major crisis and needed help to stay alive, but i decided that if i was going to go then i wanted more than that. i wanted to fix me.

i am sorry you have people trying to sabotage you. i wish i had some wise advice. What does your T say about it?

((((((Fluff)))))

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It never occurs to anyone that i have a heart

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Well, we know you have a heart!!!! And we are real people. You have shown us your heart. We Love you. Now you have to show it to others.

Your heart has been broken and you are suffering. Maybe with T you can explore your broken heart? I bet there's good things there as well as pain. With T by your side it will be safe, because you have the support you never received before.

Peace & Love

awwww... sister, you're such a sweetie.

well.. now, that's the thing.. cant tell him. Can't can't can't tell him i need GENTLE.

wtf?

i mean, it's one word. i was able to tell him i respond better to him when he uses a certain tone... but wasn't able to tell him which tone. At some point he figured out that it was in harder times, when he could see that i was hurting. Obviously, we all respond differently to someone who is sitting there sobbing right? We're softer.. but i dont cry with him. i didn't cry much at all but recent hormones have turned that upside down (whole other issue). So he doesn't always have many cues as to what is happening with me. i know i know... but cant help it.

so now he tries to keep his tone softer, but he still has no idea that if he was very gentle, soft and reached out in an emotional way... tenderness... i'd be putty. Pathetic isn't it?

he jabbers away... he's funny and sweet and very kind.. you can tell he's a good person you know? i doubt he is much different outside of his office, he seems very real. But he jabbering.. quite merrily about something i am sure is probably important and i am thinking to myself "hey! hey you! could you just notice i am bleeding to death in here!"

he can be very... ugh... cognitive. i want feeling. Now... at times when my feelings have overflowed more.. or the topic becomes very obviously more difficult... he has been wonderful. Very gentle and said exactly the right things. i say all the time that i dont know why i am afraid, he hasn't bitten me yet.

we talk about that, but i am never able to tell him precisely. So i figure he is guessing his best guess. If i cant say then i have to wait right?

My mind is so powerfully set to this... cant move.

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MzJelloFluff said:
But he jabbering.. quite merrily about something i am sure is probably important and i am thinking to myself "hey! hey you! could you just notice i am bleeding to death in here!"

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That is kind of funny to me, because my T hardly says anything. She simply asks a probing question and waits in silence until I work up the nerve to answer. Then makes a few comments and then on to another question.

really? i saw in another post from you that you weren't "feeling it" with your T... now i know you were joking about heating up the couch with a male T (or not!).. but have you considered that maybe a lot of your dissatisfaction with therapy might be because you don't have the right relationship? i don't recall, no surprise for me, what you've said about your relationship...like if you feel it's right or not. Of course, i mutter a lot too but i really do feel he is right for me... i just wonder if his orientation is the right one for me sometimes.

i have heard people talk about T's who sit in silence and it makes me feel ill... i'd hate that. Mine rarely does that.. he'll let a pause hang there for a little bit but he almost never leaves me stranded for long. Just once i think... i drifted away while he was talking about something and at some point i realised he had stopped and was just watching me. THAT felt weird. Not the silence itself but being watched in silence. i know he is watching me all the time really.. but this was tres weird.

Fluff, can you write to him from the depths of your pain? Writing seems to be your voice and if you can show him that, give him that, maybe he will be able to meet you...?
((((((((fluff))))))))
Kiya

Fluff,
I questioned if I'm with the right T from the very beginning and still question it today. But she has helped me settle down some of the craziness at home and she does seem to understand the impact of verbal abuse on family members. I get no warm and cuddly feeling from her at all. Although I did get her to laugh a few times. As for the question, does she care about me? I think she doesn't dislike me, but she probably doesn't really care about me either. As for the silence, I think most of that is in my own head. It feels like minutes but it is actually probably just a few seconds. I struggled a lot talking in the beginning--so I panic when I get myself somewhere and don't want to continue. The pressure I feel is likely self imposed--I'm a freak. Only recently (last session) have I come to the conclusion that she knows her silence drives me nuts. Although I'm projecting.. I think that's why she doesn't make eye contact until I say something worthwhile. I guess its her way of letting me know I'm withholding again. It is painfully uncomfortable but effective I suppose. It bugs me a little to think she knows how to rattle me-- even though that's what we pay them to know.

Honestly I think the tone of our therapeutic relationship was set by me in the beginning because I was so defensive, very emotionless, and all about solving problems quickly and efficiently. I wouldn't have tolerated a warm, intimate environment and would have likely bailed out quickly. I'm lightening up a bit, my emotions are starting to surface. I might be interested in exploring a more relaxed informal therapeutic relationship. However, my fear of attachment would create a big barrier to that type of relationship. I'm not really sure if its possible to change a therapeutic relationship after its already been established one way.

Sometimes I wonder if I would have been better off with a male T simply because I work primarily with men, have all male doctors, and until recently most of my closest adult friends were male. Unfortunately it took me this long to settle down and start talking more directly about things that are bothering me, I can't imagine starting all over again.

Must be the no pain, no gain mentality.

well, i'll tell you that defending her and the way it works between you is a good sign. Of course the therapeutic relationship can change!! That's the process. It evolves. But for it to change you have to direct it, not her. That is the wall i am facing, that if i want gentleness i have to find a way to clue him in on it.

It's all you. All of the projection, assumption, everything, it's all you. She's probably more of the blank slate variety than some, but you're possibly right that she is reflecting back to you. i dont know how much of this you talk about with her... do you two ever talk about "you two?" T and i return to it every so often, the process, how i relate to him, how he is, what's working and what's not.

you could talk about that without saying you'd like a sample of warm and fuzzy. Talk about the process. Tell her exactly that.. that you'd like to talk about the process and how it's working or not working for you. Ask her about those things that drive you nuts. Most T's appreciate feedback and will adapt to you... and they like nothing more than for you to say what you need... but that part is a bigger leap. (one i can't make yet either)

kiya we talked a bit about that today... writing i mean. It's been a loooong time since i have given him anything. He noticed that. SOmetimes i try and nothing comes out... when i try to write how i feel everything vanishes.

it's hard

he made me write down some things i couldn't say... not to give him but to take home so i can remember what it was... and maybe be able to write about it.

i am going to try but i feel like i have hit a wall.

Fluff, your right it's all me! As for talking about how we interact, no we have not had open dialog about this. I expressed once during a session that I was frequently confused about how to properly "do therapy" and if I was participating properly. I once wrote her asking her to clarify a few assumptions/expectation I wanted to make regarding our interactions. Some of them were obvious but she was nice enough to go one by one and affirm that each one individually. For some reason I needed to hear it. Other than that we've never talked about what she was doing, what I'm supposed to be doing, if it seemed to be working well. I have said that I noticed a benefit. As for asking for a sample of the warm and fuzzy, NO WAY.

I liked your T's idea for you to write something down that you couldn't say in the session. I kind of do this in my journal after a session. Just for me to explore on my own.

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i told soli tonight that IRL everyone thinks i dont care... that i'm this gal made of steel that does what she wants and devil be damned. It never occurs to anyone that i have a heart... much one that lays broken on the floor.. bleeding to death..

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(((((Fluffy))))))),
In my opinion, you've changed since I met you a few months ago. I remember our first conversation. You were having a meltdown. You were very guarded and afraid to let people in, afraid to trust. But you did. Now, I see you joking around, posting, and answering posts! You sell yourself short - you are a wonderful person, not poison. Give yourself time, you can achieve whatever goal you set! That includes finding someone who truly knows you like we on PC do, and who will treat you the way you desire

Mckell, you might just want to write down some of those journal thoughts for T... the ones about the process. Talk to her about feeling so lost and needing a framework. i'd go nuts working blind like that, even though i actually told T it tickles me that he felt he was working blind with me. <evil grin>

oh Soli... you're the bestest. You made my day. Here i am sweating over what T asked me to write, feeling like some kind of idiot. He asked me to write about what i couldn't say... and why i couldn't say it. Ick. i'd rather stick my thumb in dog poo.. which i accidentally did once when i was picking up after one of the babies.

Thanks I may try to test the waters in that area a bit. I just hate appearing clueless about everything.

As for you being a made of steel and not caring for others, you don't project that image in your PC posts. I find your post very supportive and you seem to show your ability to care for others.

I know I say a lot of things here that I would not ever say in RL. However, there are times when I've had some carryover to my RL. I would have never raised some of the issues I have in therapy, if I hadn't expressed and dialogged them here first and got encouragement from you and others.

Maybe that fact that some of your old friends are doing double-takes when they see changed behavior is a good thing. Good friends will accept and encourage these changes.

Her silences are for you, to give you room and time. Whatever is happening you can say it. Sometimes I just get stopped and the silence doesn't help and I just say I don't know what to say.

If I'm done talking about something for the time being, I say that I don't want to talk any more about that right now.

I am still withholding, flat emotionally a lot, and I censor what I say. But we both know that because we talk even bout that.

The closeness I feel with her is more about how she gives me this room, the silences, and the acceptance with such gentleness and kindness. And even though it feels really good to me, a lot of that feeling isn't with me until after I leave there. I hope that I get better at feeling it while I'm there with her. Sometimes I'm so uptight and uncomfortable there for a lot of the session.

I don't mean that this is how it is for you, or how it should be for you or anyone else. I just wanted to share with you because my T sounds similar to yours. She's quiet, but it's a strong quietness that feels secure and accepting to me.

It sounds like you're doing really well with her.

Some of my favorite things she's said is to "Begin wherever you are", "Take this in any direction you choose", and my very favorite: "You are right where you're supposed to be."

It sounds like she accepts you wherever you are at the moment, and that the silences are a gift of time and space for you to do whatever you choose: continue on a topic or change topics or take a moment to breathe and just "be" there with her.

haha, i said they did double-takes and didn't believe me, i never said anything about trying it again. The stuff i was talking about was stuff from before i started therapy... a long time ago. Sad, failed attempts at finding out who i really was.

My T has a saying on his wall,

"Your silence can tell me alot more about you, then your words sometimes can"

I believe that, because there are so many times many of us just sit and stare, things racing through our heads, but our body language and our facial expressions say so much! My T will let the silence go on, he never stops it. He will ask if he sees me struggling with something or hugging his pillows what is wrong and what is on my mind in a very soft caring voice. I don't always answer. It depends on how close to the surface everything is.

I wish he were here now...

Echoes, your comments make perfect sense. Intellectually, I know the anxiety and negativity is generated in my head and not coming from her. When I try to support my irrational assumptions, there is no evidence.

Ah don't you just love the tension between who we were, who we are, and who we want to be. Once you gain some new awareness, you have to deal with repairing what the pass you did. Unfortunately, I my case, I may also be finding that some relationships may not survive the transition. Fuffy I think it was you in another post that said.. you can't go back to being unaware.

I should start warning new friends by wearing a T-shirt Person under construction, interact at your own risk :-)

confused, that is so true, our body language gives us away quite a lot.. mine does and i know it.

nope mckell, we can't... thats why i never ever tell someone to go into therapy.. i do not to be responsible in any way for making someone choose that. Once they do they can't go back so it needs to be their own strong desire... that desire is what can carry us through the hard parts. i sometimes do wish i could go back, now all i seem to see is failed potential, when before ignorance really was bliss.