[Lamplighter]

I’ve put in my profile that I’m a survivor of emotional abuse, but it’s a funny kind of set up I’ve had. For me the sense of emotional abuse arises so much more from an absence of things than active abuse (though I got a fair share of that in later years!)

I have real problems convincing myself that the way things were in the past actually constitutes abuse - because it was all about things that I didn’t get, things that weren’t said, done, given. So my early past is more or less about things like negation and invalidation and being ignored and being made to experience myself as not counting, not mattering, unacceptable, unlikeable, worthless you name it.

I was wondering how others deal with this absence of things - that makes it so hard to point to something and say ‘yes see that’s why I’ve ended up like this’, it’s like there’s nothing concrete that you can pin down just a big nothing. And it’s even harder to blame anyone for it, to be able to say ‘no that wasn’t right, that shouldn’t have happened’ because to all intents and purposes NOTHING happened.

Anyone else know what I’m on about here?

Torn Mind

[googley]

Torn-
Have you looked at the definition of neglect. Neglect is an absence of things that should be there. It is a type of abuse. That might be a description of what you are looking for? It was very hard for me to admit that the emotional abuse happened. And try to describe it since it was words and there were no marks.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/print/1642

[Tatyana2009]

I dont think this is necessarily neglect (from a lawful perspective).

What you describe is emotional and perhaps also verbal abuse. It is very damaging and just like violence and physical abuse - it aims to exert power over you, control, manipulate etc and there is a misuse of power on behalf of the adult as the child relies on the adult.

For someone who lived all thier life with some form of emotional abuse it will be really hard some times to point the finger and say - yes, its wrong, its this and its that. This is because you get so used to it and you come to believe that is how things should be. It feels familiar. Saying it was wrong and you have been deprived of your basic needs and rights (!) (respect, safety, love, acceptance, security) - means you will grieve over all these things and have to deal with loads of feelings. You will also stand a chance at getting your self esteem higher and respecting yourself in a way that will make you whole.

I hope this helps.

There are books written about this if you are interested.

I am sorry for your hurt and loss.

[geez]

Torn Mind thank you so much for posting this. I feel this way but have never been able to express this in words. I too always felt like I had to have something concrete to say that xyz happened so that is emotional abuse. I do have some of those examples in my past life but there are many more moments of 'nothing'. No caring, no empathy, no hugs, no love. Even on the few occasions when I spoke up I was told to 'toughen up'.

Many thanks!

Hi, Torn Mind,

Thanks for your post. Sounds like neglect to me too. And, yes, neglect is a form of abuse. (Some types are unlawful, e.g., starvation, but withholding of affection and advice, is not.) You describe it perfectly, there is something missing but you can't put your finger on it. It is difficult dealing with neglect issues for that reason. Somehow, though I was neglected, I had inner strength, a sense of self importance, an independent streak and liked to learn.

To a good extent, it is possible to teach yourself a lot of things that were never taught to you by your parents. I know that I always felt behind others developmentally - I was and to some extent still am. I read that being patient with yourself is helpful and it helped a lot. As you can see from my posts elsewhere, I haven't been able to teach myself everything. There's hurt/pain to deal with/overcome. But it is possible to have a life.

[peaches100]

Tornmind,

I am so glad you posted this because i feel almost exacty the same way you do. I did have some SA from a neighbor, but by far, what hurt the most was the lack of emotional support, affection, validation, and training i needed but didn't get as a child from my parents.

Like you, i didn't have physical abuse. Nor were my needs for food, shelting, and clothing ignored. But my "self" was either ignored or made fun of. Even when i was hurting and in pain over something, my mom would act like she didn't notice. Even when my suffering was so obvious!! My dad would often drink and then pick on me and ridicule me until i became angry or broke down crying. My mom was usually within earshot and would usually say nothing to defend me. My parents would go out alot at night and leave us with babysitters, and then later, leave us alone at night. My dad was very critical of me and yelled alot. My parents didn't bring us up with morals or give us direction in life. They just let us go our own way and become who we were. I don't think my dad really liked being a father. He seemed constantly to be somewhat irritated/annoyed, especially with me. My mom was really into her job, and got her satisfaction from that. She was actually a really upbeat, happy person who was excited about her life and goals, and she was so busy living her life that she didn't notice what her kids needed from her emotionally. When one night, my parents found me at a pedophile's house, and i told them what he'd done to me, they just said "Don't go over there anymore." End of story. No help to understand what had happened. No help with my guilt. No turning him in to the authorities. Just. . .nothing. Was never mentioned again.

Despite all these things, the biggest problem i have in therapy, and in my healing work, is that, like you, i feel that somehow, i didn't have it "that bad". . .that i am just oversensitive and have blown things out of proportion. That other kids could have shrugged this stuff off. And that i'm being a bad daughter to be talking about my parents. Even though i feel such internal pain, a part of me feels that my pain is not justified. And because of this, i can't accept my pain because i don't feel that i have the right to complain or feel bad. Because of this, i feel very stuck.

I really wish somebody would tell me if i'm just making a big deal out of nothing. Do the things i've mentioned sound minor? I just feel like a fake somehow. Like a whiner. And it's sad, because in a way, i'm turning my back on my own reality -- thinking that somehow i am just wrong about all of this, and that the problem is me, that i am just being a baby about it.

[Sannah]

Torn, this is a really good point that you are making here. This "lack of" sums up my upbringing too and it can cause so many problems. I use the words "my problems were from acts of omission, not commission". Our development requires attention and when we don't get this attention our development is lacking. The good news is that we can continue our development as an adult.

[Lamplighter]

Thank you everyone for your replies. It’s one of those issues that seems so amorphous and insubstantial it’s even really hard to write about it - like trying to pin down smoke and fog.

It’s also something that seems to affect, well me at any rate, in a negative kind of way, I mean that when I think about the negation and invalidation (neglect I suppose, but it’s really hard to apply that word because it’s so easy to see that people didn’t mean it, and there’s no kind of objective standard by which to say ‘aha see you didn’t tell me I was lovable you didn’t make me feel ok about myself that’s something you did wrong’.)

Anyway when I think about it the feelings are more like withdrawing, impossible to get a handle on exactly WHAT was wrong about it all and so it’s impossible to get angry or even feel hurt and the end result is more like having this incredibly vulnerable and needy and defenceless core that you need to hide away all the time, not something you can openly talk about as something seen by the world as unacceptable. Imagine trying to explain to someone that you’ve got major problems because of something in the past and when asked you say oh my parents didn’t praise me or see me as wonderful or tell me what a fantastic person I was all kind of a bit impossible really. Because basically the end result of negation and invalidation is that you walk around experiencing yourself as worthless and unlovable (at the least) so it’s impossible to take a stand and judge anyone for NOT having seen you as wonderful and precious and wanted etc. Hm that’s total waffle anyone know what I’m getting at there?

I’m trying to say that because it’s all an absence, and at the time you don’t really have any idea that it could (and should) be different, you just accept it all as the status quo, as normal, and sponge up the messages as being a reflection of who you are (unimportant, worthless, not mattering, not able to be loved and liked and wanted and seen as good etc etc). So when it comes to trying to undo those messages there’s nothing concrete to fix on - no specific incident that is serious enough by itself to warrant getting emotional about it (as some of you have said, what’s the big deal in that? It just doesn’t seem enough to explain the way I am now.)

The catch-22 in all of this is that being stuck now in experiencing self as worthless and undeserving - it’s really hard to go back and feel that I deserved or should have had all these goodies, goodies that I only know about from listening to and talking with and reading about and watching how other people relate to each other. And all the time the biggest message of all - that it’s all my fault for needing/wanting/demanding too much - that such things CAN’T be given that I’m making it all up because of something wrong in me. Sigh.

Peaches
I just feel like a fake somehow. Like a whiner. And it's sad, because in a way, i'm turning my back on my own reality -- thinking that somehow i am just wrong about all of this, and that the problem is me, that i am just being a baby about it.

Exactly Peaches! It’s like so many ‘small’ things that most people would just accept as normal human failings or imperfection or whatever and that to be upset about it is like being a pathetic bratty give me give me give me I demand child. Though in your case I have to say that the things you’ve described are pretty concrete and open signs of neglect! And I so get what you mean when you wish someone would tell you whether you’re making a big deal out of nothing (or not lol - that’s what I really want, someone to say, YES it’s serious, it IS a bad situation). A big part of that kind of emotional absence is that you end up with a not good enough sense of objective reality because your own feelings and needs and perceptions have been so invalidated that you can’t rely on yourself to tell you the objective truth about things.

I guess the other catch-22 is that even if you can find something ‘real’ - that’s not the point of it is it, to blame or get righteously angry about it, the real issue is why wasn’t I good enough for them to be nice and kind and caring and loving towards me?

Unhappyguy
To a good extent, it is possible to teach yourself a lot of things that were never taught to you by your parents

.

Sannah
The good news is that we can continue our development as an adult

Tatyana
You will also stand a chance at getting your self esteem higher and respecting yourself in a way that will make you whole.

These things you guys have posted means there is hope!

For years I’ve been running around in little circles trying to GET all the things that were denied when I was a kid and I’ve experienced that as something MAJOR wrong with me and it’s only now that it’s started dawning on me that it just might be possible to actually get some of those needs met, or at least be able to accept that they were legitimate and valid needs and not my fault (well ok not entirely lol).

Ugh just reread what I’ve written and it sounds so pathetic when I think about its being posted in a proper abuse forum.

Hmm and for that reason I’m going to go ahead and post it, because I reckon I’m just buying into the message that says it’s not serious enough, not bad enough, just me being pathetic and attention seeking and sod that it’s time to stand up against those messages. Ok sorry I’ve written a really long post I can’t seem to help myself, and it would have been a lot longer because I wanted to say something in reply to all the posts on here. So thanks again everyone for your comments.

Torn Mind

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Torn Mind

at the time you don’t really have any idea that it could (and should) be different, you just accept it all as the status quo, as normal, and sponge up the messages as being a reflection of who you are (unimportant, worthless, not mattering, not able to be loved and liked and wanted and seen as good etc etc).

So when it comes to trying to undo those messages there’s nothing concrete to fix on - no specific incident that is serious enough by itself to warrant getting emotional about it (as some of you have said, what’s the big deal in that? It just doesn’t seem enough to explain the way I am now.)

How about starting with today and working backwards if needed then? Start with your low self worth of today. This is concrete. Go back in time only to analyze if needed, to explain the low self worth.

Originally Posted by Torn Mind

the real issue is why wasn’t I good enough for them to be nice and kind and caring and loving towards me?

Do you believe this still? That your parents were neglectful because there was something wrong with you?

[FooZe]

Thanks for sharing all this, Torn. I have to run in a few minutes so I can't really do this thread justice right now but maybe this'll be a start:

Originally Posted by Torn Mind

It’s also something that seems to affect, well me at any rate, in a negative kind of way, I mean that when I think about the negation and invalidation (neglect I suppose, but it’s really hard to apply that word because it’s so easy to see that people didn’t mean it, and there’s no kind of objective standard...

You're doing well focusing on the subjective end of it. I was thinking the "invalidation" might have taken the form of not giving you the validation you were looking for. It's harder to point to something that isn't there than to something that is, but I have a feeling that as you keep looking you'll come up with an even better idea of what's "missing" and, more important, what you might be doing to keep from missing it too much.

Ugh just reread what I’ve written and it sounds so pathetic when I think about its being posted in a proper abuse forum.

Hmm and for that reason I’m going to go ahead and post it, because I reckon I’m just buying into the message that says it’s not serious enough, not bad enough, just me being pathetic and attention seeking and sod that it’s time to stand up against those messages.

Way to go! Calling it "pathetic" is part of what I called "what you might be doing to keep from missing it too much." Abusing yourself, as it were.

[sharon123]

I endured emotional abuse as a child and then "married" the original abuser (mother) which is typical. 31 years of abusive marriage, and then the book that saved my mind and life: The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans

Verbal abuse is literal....brainwashing.

[Hunny]

Torn Mind,

Thank you for this.

[LoveMist]

Hi Torn Mind,

There is so many different kinds of abuse and emotional abuse has just as bad of an effect on us as any other abuse would be. We sometimes feel unwanted, damaged, useless, low self esteem, feelings of being a nobody and sometimes feel to the point that we need not go on. All these feelings come from many types of abuse, sometimes we don't know where or who to point the finger at as to why we are the way we are today. I am a survivor of sexual abuse along with so much emotional abuse. When things weren't going well and I would sink into depression and sometimes wanting to give up on life, I always pointed the finger where it belonged which was to those who made me feel this way, it didn't help much until I was able to learn to take all that control that they had over me and I took it back from them, I am now in control and once we learn to take that control back then we begin to feel whole as a person again. I know that there are times that we may still slip back into those down modes though and that we will still be hurt in the future with different situations but taking that control back now from those who dished out the abuse then you can grow, know who you are, where you want to be in life, learn to love yourself for who you are. I have found for each time I go through rough times, I grow stronger and wiser to keep pushing on, I have myself respect and stand up for myself now even though at times it may hurt we must always take care of ourselves. I hope this helps some.

[sugahorse1]

Thanks for sharing this - I feel I am in a relationship where I may well be emotionally abused - I just don't receive the love, attention and affection I need to be truely happy. I know this sounds selfish, and happiness should come from within, but if you're in a serious relationship and work or partying with the boys always comes before you and your needs - that is pretty damn hard to deal with. I've since become very clingy and needy.
not sure if this is the right forum or if it even constitutes abuse..?

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by sugahorse

if you're in a serious relationship and work or partying with the boys always comes before you and your needs - that is pretty damn hard to deal with.

I don't think that it constitutes abuse. Why are you settling for so little though? If you are becoming clingy and needy you must be getting triggered?

[Tatyana2009]

How are you Torn? I hope you are well. Of course there is hope. Hope is a wonderful thing and I believe we all have the potential (capability that is in potentia) to grow and develop.

I think recognising your worth goes hand in hand in recognising the weight and impact of the abuse. Read about abuse, about abusive interactions and relationships. If you had a kid (maybe you have?) would you treat them the way you were treated?

You are looking for answers and for the questions and its positive in itself. Just remember to be kind to yourself in the process and not abuse yourself....

[Lamplighter]

Hello guys I’m so sorry I haven’t been on forum for days so only now have a chance to thank you for replying.

Tatyana - thanks for the encouragement. You wrote a pretty significant sentence there when you said

Just remember to be kind to yourself in the process and not abuse yourself....

I wonder how many abused people actually repeat the same treatment they got as kids to themselves as adults. I know for sure that I internalized the whole I don’t matter message so that throughout my life I not only expected not to matter to anyone, but actually treat myself as if I don’t matter. Hmmm. Bit of a catch-22 though because unless someone else treats you like you do matter, you don’t really get the experience to know what it’s like to matter, so it’s pretty hard to matter to yourself. (For ‘matter’ substitute or add any of the following: love, liking, admiration, sympathy, respect, being important, being wanted, accepted etc etc)

Sugahorse that’s an interesting question! That’s sort of why I struggle with seeing what happened to me as abuse, because it seems to me a lot more to do with not getting, with not being treated in a good way - rather than someone openly doing something bad to me. And it gets even trickier when you’re an adult because the assumption is you are free enough to walk away from negative relationships. And also as you pointed out, it tends to be seen as ‘selfish’ or at least ‘expecting too much’. I suppose in your case you have to ask yourself why are you accepting his negating and uncaring behaviour towards you? What’s stopping you realizing that you ARE worth being considered and treated with respect and therefore deserve more than you are getting? These are just hypothetical questions, me musing aloud (but if you want to answer them, please do…)

Lovemist it sounds like you’ve done really well getting yourself into a good place. I agree with you about pointing the finger where it belongs but I have a question - how did you take control back from those who abused you? I find it really hard to confine the negative messages I’ve got to where they originally came from, because my life experiences just seem to have reinforced and proved my negative perceptions of myself. It’s just so hard recognizing negative stuff from people when it’s all an absence, a not giving - rather than something obviously bad (like verbal abuse for instance, of which I had a shedload as well, with a fair bit of physical abuse too - not that at the time hitting children was considered abuse). But even verbal abuse is hard to counter, because how many of us are able to not be at least initially hooked into accepting that we’ve done something wrong to warrant the verbal attack? It’s such a nightmare because it’s just not straightforward, as I said before it’s like trying to pin down smoke and mists.

Torn

"although i was only emotionally abused, my father was physically abused.

There is not such thing as only being emotionally abused - I have heard many horrifying stories of physical abuse and the most damaging aspect of the physical abuse is the emotional abuse it causes - when we say "I was only emotionally abused" it is the disease minimizing the trauma we experienced. Emotional abuse is underneath all other types of abuse - the most damaging aspect of physical, sexual, mental, etc. abuse is the trauma to our hearts and souls from being betrayed by the people that we love and trust. The other types of abuse can add more levels to the healing necessary but the bottom line is the emotional abuse and it's effect on our ability to Love and trust ourselves. In fact, being only emotionally abused can sometimes make it much harder to get in touch with our issues because it isn't always blatant and obvious. Some of it was very subtle - some of us were abused and shamed by the way they looked at us or said our name or did not see or hear us - on a daily basis." ~Joy2MeU