[googley]

Trigger Warning-emotional abuse details

AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have always used lack of money (which is true) as a barrier to why I could not visit my parents for vacations. I say that since I am a student or was saving up for school I did not have the disposable income that would allow me to do this. It has always been my way of getting out of having to visit them for vacations since I was in college. The last time I was home my mom told me that I should "go blow my brains out." After that trip home my senior year of undergrad I promised myself that I wound not sleep under their roof again. The money story has held up since then. However, today my dad (who doesn't think anything wrong happened and thinks that if anything wrong did happen it is my fault because I should not have upset my mom, it was my job to keep her calm.)

Today my dad called (and luckily got my voicemail.) He said that they would pay for my trip to visit them for vacation. I'm a student so I have a good two weeks or so where I don't have classes. This is my worst nightmare. I will have to tell him something when I next talk to him. And he will expect me to return his call somewhat soon as I know he likes to buy plane tickets way in advance.

I always end up getting really really depressed after seeing my parents. It is really bad. I can't put myself back into that situation. I have friends in the area that I really miss, but would feel obligated to stay at my parent's house if I went to visit. Plus since it is the holidays my friends would be busy with their families.

I don't know what to do. Help me!

Do I tell them that I don't want to visit and deal with their backlash to that? Do I tell them that I would be willing to visit them, but need to stay somewhere else? Last time I was in town I stayed at my brother's apartment but he has a tiny one now with nowhere for me to sleep. Do I tell them I'm not willing to come? I just don't know what to do. If I go I'm sure I am going to end up feeling like I am going insane. I thought that I was finally away from them!

Help Me Please!

[geez]

Originally Posted by googley

Do I tell them that I don't want to visit and deal with their backlash to that?

What would hurt more? or what is less convenient for you? The work you will have to do to mend yourself after a visit with them or the work you will have to do to mend yourself after their backlash for not going? There is no easy answer here. I stood up to my parents for the first time before and NO ONE in my family talked to me for an entire year. That of course passed - and I'm given more respect.

Originally Posted by googley

Do I tell them that I would be willing to visit them, but need to stay somewhere else?

To me this seems like a great compromise. I don't know the particulars of your situation but I would strongly consider staying somewhere else. You may have to find a way to tell them why you plan on staying somewhere else...can you be vague with your reason? Like.. I'm going to stay at someone's house to spread my time around a bit and catch up with old friends etc...

Originally Posted by googley

Last time I was in town I stayed at my brother's apartment but he has a tiny one now with nowhere for me to sleep. Do I tell them I'm not willing to come?

If you tell them you are not willing to come just be prepared to tell them why (if they ask). I would try and discuss this with T ahead of time and have a plan for how to handle this. Don't know if any of what I've wrote you find helpful. Hope you find some resolution and peace of mind soon.

Wishing you comfort.

[Sannah]

My gut reaction is that it is high time for your dad to hear the truth. Don't know how strong you are feeling about this one?

[yellowted]

I'm afraid i was in a similar situation years ago(well for many years)because i chose the best thing to do was lie, I used every excuse from i have already accepted an invitation to a friends, booked a holiday somewhere hot, got loads of parties from xmas eve to new year, to i am staying home with my partner (i didn't even have one at the time!!) i did this because i knew if i went home my childhood abuser would carry on groping me at every opportunity yet because of my younger siblings (who were never abused) i did not want to cause upset there. it worked for a number of years until although asked to go back it was accepted that i wouldn't be there when i could just say no. eventually when my siblings were adults i then told my mom and stepfather exactly why i would never go back, mom still thinks i am lying but he knows what he did and still denies it to everyone. Lying was the best option for me although i do understand lying is wrong sometimes you just have to do anything to survive and looking after me was the only way i could survive.

[Elana05]

Googley,

You are listening to that inner voice that is telling you what to do to feel safe. As to telling the real truth why you don't feel you can visit them... I think (from my own experience) parents are not able to hear us when we want to have this kind of honest conversation. It would be different if it was in a family therapy session or something. But I know my parents just get immediately defensive around stuff like this. Unless you feel that it is time to say something.
Or you could stand your ground but say something like "I have a very serious 40 page paper to work on and I just don't have time." Or I don't know if this is an option but I recently have been working (in therapy) on asking my parents to come visit me for a change. Would it be possible to say something like, "Look, I have these two days off - why don't you come to visit and stay in this nice hotel and we can meet for dinner at this restaurant." (??) But with this type of emotional abuse... Is it worth it for your mental health? I guess that is the question...
Oh Googley... I wish I had the right answer. I want you to have a really nice holiday, so I am inclined to tell you to choose whatever it is that would give you the most joy, moment of relaxation, calm etc.
You are an important person and you deserve to feel at peace and happy.

When we are young we must look to our parents.
When we are adults we are free to make our own decisions.

Sending supportive thoughts your way.



E

[googley]

Sannah- The problem is that my dad was there when this happened. He later told me that it was my fault and it was my job to keep her calm.

Elana- Having them come isn't much better. I couldn't ask them to come visit me. The only thing that might be acceptable would be to go visit, stay with someone else and have a couple of meals at their house. But since we are talking about the holidays, staying with friends wouldn't really be an option.

My mom and I did one joint counseling session when I was in high school, the only thing that came of it was I got yelled at that night about everything I said, and didn't say.

There is no way to win with my family.

[dinosaurs]

hi googley

i didn't have a chance to read the replies you got, so sorry if i double up here. was just going to say that from my experience, it was better to just be upfront with them and say i didn't want to visit them (or have them visit). it's like if you make an excuse this time, then it will occur again down the track and you'll need another excuse and so forth. its a cycle that builds up hostility (on their end if you refuse or on your end if you have to go (which would be more than hostility, like major distress and stuff too)).

when i told them i didn't want to visit, there was huge pressure from them and other people. telling me to go, not understanding why i wouldn't. and no matter how hard people push, you do not need to tell them why. i would just say its not something i wanted to talk about at that time, or it was healthier for me to stay away and i never explained further than that.

there was lots of hurt and upset from my folks which brought huge guilt. but it is getting a bit easier the more often i do it. although it has taken several years of refusals to get to this stage. i had to keep reminding myself that i was not responsible for them feeling hurt. if anything, they brought this on themselves from their past behaviour. and if i was to go, it would hurt my self a huge amount, both because i have not protected my self and they did/said things that hurt. its up to me to decide what situations are healthy or unhealthy for me and then to take steps to avoid placing myself in the unhealthy situations.

whether you decide the healthiest option is to not go, to go but stay elsewhere, etc is up to you. just don't let them bully you into something you consider is an unhealthy option. be gentle with you.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by googley

Sannah- The problem is that my dad was there when this happened. He later told me that it was my fault and it was my job to keep her calm.

But this isn't the truth. He is wrong. Have you ever confronted him about his view?

[googley]

I know he is wrong. He just does not know he is wrong. I have stopped trying to convince him of anything having to do with my mom. It just causes me to end up running my head into the wall. I find it is just better to ignore the whole issue when it comes to them.

((((((((googley)))))) please dont be offended but they sound awful and toxic!!! what would be the benefits/payoffs of subjecting yourself to more of their abuse? so what its a "holiday"? its in all reality just another day and for that you deserve to not be guilted,intimidated or have to live in fear. we cant choose our family of origin but we darn sure can choose to not spend time with them!!!! we wish we could make the decision for you but ultimately that will have to come from you. we hope you will very carefully weigh the pros-if there are any-and cons of this obvious manipulation. we care about you very much and only want whats best for you and to have the happiness and peace of mind you deseve

[Bill3]

He later told me that it was my fault and it was my job to keep her calm.

How about this:

Dad, you told me that it is my job to keep Mom calm. This means that Mom can say or do anything to me, and you will tell me that it is my fault. You will not protect me.

I don't agree. It is not my job to keep Mom calm. Her state of mind is her own responsibility.

I won't consider coming home until you are willing to protect me when I am there.

[granite1]

i am reminded of the time i couldnt tell the mother i didnt want to care for her as she was recovering from surgery.it ended up being the worse time ever i had to put my whole life on hold.i still am suffering over this time .i have sence told the mother i wasnt comming for christmas.saying no was better then the fall out of seeing her.i am much calmer being around people who love me

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by googley

He just does not know he is wrong. I have stopped trying to convince him of anything having to do with my mom. It just causes me to end up running my head into the wall.

So it sounds like you have tried standing up for your self?

[googley]

I don't know how to tell them I don't want to come. I have been trying to get a hold of a friend to see if I would have somewhere else to stay, but I can't seem to get a hold of him. Ugh. How do I tell them I don't want to come?

[Rohag]

I'm sorry you have to face this, Googley. Thank you for bringing it to the forum -- lots of serious thinking resides in this thread.

Originally Posted by googley

There is no way to win with my family.

Consequently, telling them the truth directly or "voting with your feet" will both bring repercussions. Of the rocky roads, which is the more level? Which leads to the more acceptable January?

[SUNNY2009]

WOW! You and I have this in common Googley .... I feel your pain. It is very hard to say no. I am also working to say NO to Christmas! UGH! I wil be honest ... it would be the best thing ever to say NO! I would rather spend the holidays anywhere but with my family....I cant wait until I finally get the courage to just say it and I think maybe I will this time. Reading your post made me feel so emotional for you, and reading the replies of each person here and just connecting completely with this subject. i want me to face the fear I have. I know its hard....and I know you and I are crazie anxious about it ... but ... just think, once we hang up the phone ITS DONE YAYAYAYAYAYA! guess I hope you will feel encouraged to do it too! ..sending safe hugs and take care of U first...U are your best and only advocate for U ... oh yeah ... if u do cave in, staying at a hotel or a friends would be the best thing you can do to keep you emotional well being in shape ...then you will have you space and they will have theirs....with time controlled visits at your command .... haha I should take my own advice huh!? luckily (or unluckily) I dont live that far from the parents ... so a place to stay is not in the equation. hope you feel better

[Bill3]

How do I tell them I don't want to come?

I'm so sorry for your agony.

What if you write down a draft what you want to say? Or maybe even post it here?

Maybe, after writing down what you want to say, you will be better able to decide how to say it.

[Elana05]

(((Googley)))

[RainbowG]

Originally Posted by googley

I don't know how to tell them I don't want to come. I have been trying to get a hold of a friend to see if I would have somewhere else to stay, but I can't seem to get a hold of him. Ugh. How do I tell them I don't want to come?

Hi Googley,

I so feel for you. It's horrible to be placed in this kind of position. The "we'll pay for it" approach really puts you in a bind. It really backs you into a corner.

In my experience, emotionally abusive parents are not normal. You can't reason with them. Trying to talk to them about how you feel or "standing up for yourself" won't make any difference. It would take admitting that there's something seriously wrong with how they're behaving, and that would shatter any kind of stability they have about themselves. This includes your father.

You should not have to run around trying to set up a place to stay so that you can minimize the pain of spending time with them. Even a couple of dinners with them will hurt, I suspect. If it works out and you know you'll be able to spend most of your time with your friends then it might make sense. Any other situation, though, is liable to make the holidays miserable for you.

I should warn you that my point of view is very one-sided. I went no-contact with my family eight years ago and haven't looked back. It sounds like a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. As courageous as it is to be up-front with abusive parents, again, we're not talking about normal people (in my experience!). These are people with serious psychological problems that have a distorted worldview. They just can't step outside of it to see someone else's, even if that someone else is their child!

It seems to me that unless you can set up a place to stay that's not at your parents' house and you know you can spend most of your time with your friends then the choice is really between being up-front about not wanting to go or making up an excuse (and when dealing with people with psychological problems, this isn't, in my opinion, a bad choice). Whichever you choose, you may find it helpful to employ a broken-record approach (taught to me by a former therapist). Whatever they say, you simply insist that you won't come because [whatever reason you've chosen]. However they try to lure you into an argument or "open discussion," you resist going into details; you won't because [whatever the reason is] and you don't want to get into it further. At some point, you'll hopefully be able to say you have to go, and seeing that they're getting no more out of you, they won't want to continue the conversation. Not guaranteeing anything, mind you, but it might help.

Stay strong and remember that you don't have to dance to anyone's tune except your own!

Rainbow

[Sannah]

Googley, maybe it would be easier if you can identify what you are afraid of with telling them that you aren't coming and then you can work on that?

[googley]

I gave in. I'm going to visit. But I'm not staying with my parents. I'm staying with friends. I will have a couple of meals with them and spend Christmas with them. But really I'm going because I will be able to visit my friends. My dad didn't freak out when I told him that if I came I wouldn't stay with them. So that was nice. He thought I would stay with my brother, but from my understanding he doesn't have room. So I will stay with a friend instead. I couldn't say no. Why do they still have so much power?

[RainbowG]

Originally Posted by googley

I gave in. I'm going to visit. But I'm not staying with my parents. I'm staying with friends. I will have a couple of meals with them and spend Christmas with them. But really I'm going because I will be able to visit my friends. My dad didn't freak out when I told him that if I came I wouldn't stay with them. So that was nice. He thought I would stay with my brother, but from my understanding he doesn't have room. So I will stay with a friend instead. I couldn't say no. Why do they still have so much power?

Googley,

I'm happy happy happy that you'll be staying with friends and not with them. Try to focus mostly on that. At least you won't have to live in a house full of tension for the time that you're there. Think of this as training them. You're sending a clear message that you're not willing to get sucked in just because they're paying for the travel.

Try not to be so hard on yourself. It takes time to un-enmesh from emotionally abusive parents. They make it extremely hard. As I wrote previously, these aren't people who deal with situations in a healthy way. By pressuring you into acting like everything's OK, they can deny that they're doing anything wrong.

There are so many different reasons why it may be difficult to draw boundaries. I think that at least one of them is self-respect. How can we expect to respect ourselves when we received no encouragement to do this? We essentially have to learn to re-parent ourselves. I think your insistence on setting up alternative arrangements to stay with non-abusive people shows self-respect, so you're not as compliant as you may think!

Give yourself time. It took me years to learn to draw some boundaries, and even then they seemed like minuscule accomplishments. Without realizing it, though, each time I did, I was laying down one small part of a stronger foundation of identity. I really think that's what your choices for the holidays are doing for you (although it may not seem like it).

Stay strong!

Rainbow

[Bill3]

I couldn't say no.

Do you see yourself here mainly as weak for giving in to them? Or do you also see strength, since you imposed conditions about where you will stay and how much time you will spend with them?

[Sannah]

I think what you did is very good Googley! Great job!

[yellowted]

well done googley, one small step to taking back control of yourself from them. RainbowG says what i think much better than i could. by staying with friends you have given yourself the opportunity to walk out if the going gets tough at your parents, a good move! Well done xx