[picklewheeze]

I dont know whether I'm just completely over reacting here due to my own over sensitivity to these issues.

I dont want to speak out of line and upset anyone. I feel it is safe to post here however and I'd really appreciate some different perspectives than my own.

Okay, I love my Grandad. I live with him 4 days a week and he takes good care of me. We never used to be that close, I used to feel a bit uncomfortable around him and was always closer to my Nan. As my Nan got iller we got closer and closer through caring for her. When she passed away, I felt so sorry for him. I still spend a lot of time with him as he's so lonely.

The thing is, he's just getting creepier and creepier the closer we get. He's always made comments that I havent really liked. He's forever trying to smack my bum and just generally feel it if we hug. I tend to avoid being close with him anyone but if we do hug I always make it so his arms go on top because it annoys me when he touches me. I have bad eczema on my legs at the minute and wearing clothes is really painful. If I'm ever in shorts around him though he makes comments about my legs and looks at them a lot. I find it really creepy and it makes me uncomfortable. I do know how sensitive I am with these issues though and I'm sure he means nothing by it.

When my Nan was alive I tihnk she used to keep him in line a bit more. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he just 'vented' on her a bit more. It makes me a bit sick to think. My Nan had dementia and he was her primary carer up until the last 9 months. She was incontinent and frequently contracted thrush due to diabetes and poor hygiene (it was a world war to get her in the bath). I knew my Grandad cared for her, I just never though anything of it. Then today he said he told her he fold it very tempting when he had to put her cream on, he said he was a frustrated old man. I felt so uncomfortable and awkward, why was he telling me that?

He was so good to my Nan for so many years. She was a strict woman and always put him in his place. As her midn went though, I worry that he may have taken advantage a bit. I hate to think it I really do. I remember catching him feeling up her breast once, she was just sitting there as though nothing was happening. I didnt know if it was wrong or not. She was his wife and they'd obviously had intimacy when they were younger.

When my Nan was in the care home she got very violent when ever they tried to wash her, she'd scream dont you ****ing touch me down there! Things like that.

I'm sure I'm just adding 2 and 2 and getting 5, it just worries me. Like I said, I love my Grandad and I'm not trying to paint a bad picture. I just wish he didnt do and say things like he does. It embarasses me. Especially when he talks about other young girls like it. I dont think he knows what hes doing.

I just feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place again, I cant stand living at home with the pressures of looking after my little sister and avoiding my crazy mother. At my Grandadfs I havre much more freedom and independence but then I have to put up with beign made to feel uncomfortable again.

Should I just put up with it? Are all Grandads like this to their grandaughters?

I keep thinking, if it was anyone else but my Grandad I'd be so pissed off by it.

[tinyrabbit]

No, this is not what all grandads are like. And what matters is not what he means, or not, it how you feel about it. It's completely reasonable of you not to want to put up with it. The last thing you've written speaks volumes.

Did you get anywhere with trying to figure out another option, like a house share?

[picklewheeze]

Not really. I'm really nervous to move out become I've been so unstable lately I'm not sure the isolation would do me good, it offers me too much opportunity to SI and stuff..

I also would still have to live at home for 50% of the year so I'd be spending a lot of money renting a room I wouldnt use that much. I'm still considering it though.

I feel so bad leaving myGranadad on his own too, so I dont know. I'm torn because I want to live my own life, but I'm scared to too.

[Sannah]

Respond back to him and tell him to stop.

[unaluna]

I would stop hugging grandad. That sounds horrible, but he takes advantage. You can outrun him, right? Maybe talk to him about finding him a girlfriend? Find him other options besides you.

[picklewheeze]

I dont know how to tell him to stop. Thats so alien to me. It will just make it even more awkward.

He'd never find a girlfriend, his hearts still firmly with my Nan.

I just want him to stop, he shouldnt vent his needs onto me I'm his grandaughter for goodness sake.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by picklewheeze

I dont know how to tell him to stop. Thats so alien to me. It will just make it even more awkward.

There is nothing wrong with awkward. Awkward is part of life. People need to have boundaries set on their behavior. It is a part of relationships. This would be a good opportunity for you to acquire this skill. It isn't other people's jobs to take care of us. This responsibility belongs to us and we have to set limits on other people in order to take care of ourselves.

[picklewheeze]

So its my fault?

[Sannah]

I was wondering if you were going to think this. Life is in the middle, not at each extreme. Yes, your grandfather is crossing the line and yes, you need to set boundaries. There are people out there who will respect boundaries - bless their hearts, but there are just as many, if not more out there who will cross your boundaries. Learning how to stand up for yourself and set limits is healthy.

Children need to be taught this and if they are not, shame on those parents.

I would never leave my well being in someone else's hands. If a person doesn't set boundaries, this is exactly what they are doing.

[tinyrabbit]

No. I'm sorry Sannah but I find your post rather unhelpful. You shouldn't HAVE to put these boundaries on, it's not fair or right.

This isn't about expecting someone to look after you. It's about objecting to unacceptable behaviour that you shouldn't have to object to.

Sannah, please understand that some people cannot stand up for themselves due to learned helplessness. Posts like yours are unhelpful to survivors. Sorry to be so blunt, but please understand that it's not as simple as you make it sound.

[Sannah]

Good luck in your life trabbit, not setting boundaries with others.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

Sannah, please understand that some people cannot stand up for themselves due to learned helplessness. Posts like yours are unhelpful to survivors. Sorry to be so blunt, but please understand that it's not as simple as you make it sound.

This is what must be learned.

[Paige008]

Originally Posted by picklewheeze

So its my fault?

Absolutely NOT!

He is the one making you uncomfortable and it is not your fault, you didn't cause him to make those comments or gestures. The blame is on him. He is your grandfather and an authoritative figure, he's someone you love and also respect and are supposed to trust. If he takes advantage of that then it is no one's fault but his own.

I can understand how you feel 'stuck' in the current situation though. I've been there myself. Maybe making a plan of how things could change and what your plans will be when you are able to move about freely will help get you through this darker part?

I'm sorry you are in this situation. Please remember though - it is NOT your fault.

[tinyrabbit]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Good luck in your life trabbit, not setting boundaries with others.

Can I refer you back to your previous post where you talked about seeing the middle and not just thinking in black and white?

Knowing you need to set boundaries doesn't mean you magically can. You can't just decide to get over learned helplessness.

If I was in a less strong place, I would potentially report this post. Perhaps you don't realise how unkind it sounds. I do set boundaries, but I don't find it easy, nor do I judge others who find it harder than I do.

Knowing what you need and being able to do or get it are simply not the same thing. I stand by what I said: castigating anyone who is experiencing any kind of unwanted touch or attention for failing to set boundaries is unhelpful and shaming.

Telling someone with a freeze response to instantly change their habits is psychologically unrealistic, given that our neural pathways form over time and changing a habit or behaviour actually requires you to change the structure of your brain.

Personally, I reserve the right to feel conflicted and persecuted if people do not respect the basic boundaries already dictated by society, which gives me limited faith that they would respect any set by me either, as I'm just me.

I'm sure PW must feel similarly.

[Sannah]

I feel passionately about this stuff so maybe this is why it comes across so strong. I feel strongly about empowering people.

I never said that it was easy to do. Behaviors can be changed.

[picklewheeze]

Woh woh woh, I knew this was gonna end up in an argument.

I dont want to pursue this argument and to gang up on anyone but I do think that was quite a childish thing to do, to belittle TR like that.

I understand what you're trying to say Sannah, that learning to stick up for yourself is an important part of healing. You're more than entitled to your opinion and I wouldnt tell you to take it back, but I think we must juts be careful not to make things personal here. Everyone has their own strong opinions.

To be honest, I feel sorry for you if thats really how you feel Sannah, that its your job to say no. I dont know what you've been through, but if thats how you think you must still have a lot of self blame.

I didnt ask whether it was my fault because I thought it was, I know it isnt. I asked it to try and make you question what you said.

I've set boundaries before and people have crossed them. I said no. I ran away. I got dragged back, pushed against a wall and raped. So don't tell me I can't say no. I can. How do you hurt someone you love? Do two wrongs make a right?

Throughout my childhood sexual abuse, I probably didnt fight as much as I could have. I didnt even know there should have been a boundary there though, for me to put up.

[picklewheeze]

Originally Posted by Sannah

I feel strongly about empowering people.

Its not about empowering people. I dont think anyone. No one should have power over another, that makes us as weak as our perpertrators. Its about learning a feeling of self-worth and therefore understanding how we should be treating and then following that through.

Everyone has the ability to throw a punch. Everyone has the ability to say no. Not everyone is taught that they have the right to. Its not about learning to 'set boundaries' its about learning that there are boundaries and where they sit in order to sit yourself safely behind them. More importantly knowing that you belong their.

Anyone who takes advantage of another person is abusing them. Its not about the person being abused.

[pbutton]

I think your grandfather is being incredibly inappropriate with you. I hope you find a way to tell him to stop and get away from him.

[Littlemeinside]

Originally Posted by Sannah

I feel passionately about this stuff so maybe this is why it comes across so strong. I feel strongly about empowering people.

I never said that it was easy to do. Behaviors can be changed.

Sorry please get some perspective in life. The postings are heartbreaking to read, for someone who has been abused. You quit therapy 12 years ago Sannah and claim to be healed? Can you find something else to do, rather than play therapist in here? It´s quite confusing WHY you have this need.

[H3rmit]

Hi picklewheeze - maybe awkward is better than the way it is. Try out some phrases to see which one might work for you, maybe? Things like:

I don't like this!

This is uncomfortable for me.

I don't want to do this.

Don't squeeze me.

etc. infinite variations possible

Reminds me of my icky "uncle" friend of dad's ... ew... no way I would let him hug me. Those hands. God, no.... he always came over to drink with my dad. And then the creepy smile and grabby hugs. No way I would sit on his lap. Ick. I realize this is your grandpa, so it sounds more difficult to say no! I was defiant in that situation.

>I dont know whether I'm just completely over reacting here due to my own over sensitivity to these issues.

I don't think so.

[BrokenNBeautiful]

Some ppl can stand up for themselves and some ppl can't.

It is never their fault when they are abused.

Yes, I am physically strong and I have stronger objection to abuse, but I never learned, either, that I had rights or what they were.

My primary abuser groomed me so thoroughly (google grooming; if you don't know what that means) that I never had any separation from her or from ppl like her, or from ppl for that matter.

We are all in different places in recovery.

We should be able to talk about where we are at without fear of being judged as weak or "not recovering" if we cannot stand up to our abusers.

In fact, the only reason I can even be angry at my abuser now is because she is gone now and can no longer hurt me.

Just my own humble opinion.

Yes, I feel passionate about abuse recovery, but I still have a lot of work to do on fighting back.

Thank you, original poster.

Carol

[sabby]

((((((((((((picklewheeze)))))))))))))

I'm sorry you are going through these things with your granddad. I can only imagine how uncomfortable this is making you, especially since you obviously care/love him.

You do have the right to speak your mind with granddad. Would you be able to sit down and talk with him and mention that some of what he says and does makes you feel uncomfortable? It doesn't have to be in a demeaning way or in an angry way.

I would say that if you are able to have a genuine heart to heart talk with him and he understands, that if he continues this behavior after your talk that you should probably walk away from this living situation, for your own safety.

Is there a possibility that your granddad is having some aging issues like your gram did? Has he been for a physical lately? Is he on any medications?

I realize that not everyone is in a place to set and keep boundaries for many different reasons. But we all have to set some kind of boundaries within our lives and relationships (even very small ones) in order to help ourselves through this thing we call life. Maybe your granddad needs a boundary to help him navigate his life as well. Boundaries are not just for children when they are growing up. They are for teens and adults as well and it is a learning experience.

As an example, you can tell your granddad that when you are wearing shorts, it's because your skin is sore from your eczema and wearing long pants makes it more painful. That would give him a hint that your legs should not be touched....period! I'm just trying to think of ways that would not be so blunt and uncomfortable for either of you here.

I do not condone the way your granddad is acting towards you. Not in any way shape or form. I think that anything we need to learn how to do must come in baby steps sometimes until we feel more comfortable and able to bring it to the next level.

I hope you can find a way to work this out very soon. I also hope that you are able to stay safe as well.

[BrokenNBeautiful]

Originally Posted by sabby

((((((((((((picklewheeze)))))))))))))

I realize that not everyone is in a place to set and keep boundaries for many different reasons. But we all have to set some kind of boundaries within our lives and relationships (even very small ones) in order to help ourselves through this thing we call life.

It is easier said than done.

Baby steps.

It takes a lot of courage.

Carol

[sabby]

Originally Posted by BrokenNBeautiful

It is easier said than done.

Baby steps.

It takes a lot of courage.

Carol

Absolutely.....

[picklewheeze]

Hey thanks guys. I'm sorry I haven't been on in a while to see these and reply.

My heads really not in the game. I've taken a bit of a hit and haven't got back.to my feet yet. I've cancelled my T meetings for the time being. I will reply properly when I'm a bit more with it, but thank you for your helpful words.