[Evangelista]

Know we are not suppose to talk about relgion but right now..its hard..and unfair to have to be scared and alone with it...so without saying to much else..it hurts..to be scared and intimidated and they can hide behind it...while I am stuck in recovery trying to deal with the guilt and programming and the wierdness..and sexual abuse..

Thanx at least for letting me finally say it...

[Rebel74]

I'm so sorry you're going through this right now. Religion is a very powerful thing, and IMHO can bring out the best... or the worst in people. I'm sorry you've experienced the bad side.

Please hang in there.

[Evangelista]

its okay Rebel...just..yuck...stupid stuff one cant change..society teaches certain taboo's..certain powers..just ppl have no where to turn..cause its so powerful..gets ppl danders and alliances up..so remain secrets and just yuck..strange how nothing has changed in 40 years..noth'n at all...

Thanx for the support...its ok..probably shouldnt of said anything to start with...but sometimes a :-(..just dosent hack it...

[downsolong]

Religious cults?

But the only diff is numbers of followers, all Religons are cults and abusive.

[wanttoheal]

(((((((((((((Evangelista))))))))))) We been there too. I'm so sorry. It's difficult to see through the muck to get to real knowledge when the muck involves bad programming. I wish for you strength and peace.

[Evangelista]

Thanx Wantto..sorry u understands..but ya know sometimes..secrets..ya know..powerful

downsolong...thanx for the input..viewing hearing different perspectives..is not a bad thing..just a real touchy subject that well I guess remains untouchable except in therapy so its ok...maybe I can connect with some sort of survivor group of this type of abuse..know they have to be out there somewhere..

[mlyn]

you are not alone!!!

I have a hard enough time getting past the voices of shut up and don't tell and strong urges to self injure in order to say even the smallest details while remaining aware. I can say yea I was touched or I was raped but anything beyond that I end up saying from inside my tunnel area while whatever piece of memory is replaying and or after I have totally disociated into la la land and then I have no awareness of that memory replaying. and I have not been religiously abused. The closest thing I have come to a priest was bible study classes and being babtized/.

so I don't know how those that have gone through religious abuse get past being able to tell what happened to them without experiencing the dissociating and self injury and so on in order to be able to actually name the religious people involved and the religious cerimonies and so on.

Those that I know that are not multiple and have been abused by their priests and so on tell me that when they are forbidden totalk about the religion part of it its relatively easy to say the abuse situations with out getting into the politics of this religion vs that religion.

We cant do the this religious belief vs that one here but you can say things like my abuser was my priest and he did this that and the other thing to me. Saying those things does not involve the politcs of religious beliefs vs another one. you are just stating what happened to you.

Its kind of like the real time support group her that I very occasionally go to.

I stopped going because some of what they were putting rules on was limiting people and other reasons too.

But one night the facilitator came in and said we could no longer say things like - I was raped by a black man. EXCUSE me but not allowing a survivor to tell what happened to them is wrong. we have been told all our lives be quiet don't tell and now this friend of mine finally got the corage to say I was raped and they shut her down because the word black was in her sentence.

it wasnt like she was putting the race downlike for example saying - blacks are bla bla bla.

All she was doing was naming her abuser - I was raped by a black man. thats like a person saying they were raped by a store keeper or a white guy or the father, grandfather babysitter and so on.

Evangelista you can name your abuser - its ok to say if you were raped by a religious person and write about your memories that you are remembering.

The rule against discussing religion here if I remember right its because talking about specific belief systems and the politics behind those beliefs leads to rpoblems of people possibly putting someone elses regious beliefs down. everyone is entitled to their own religious beliefs.

But you can say this happened to me, that happened to me and it was by so and so with out getting into christians believe this, baptists, believe that, mormans, believe this and buddists believe that and so on down the various religions in the world.

If you need to put words to what happened to you and can do that - go for it. ((((((((((Evangelista))))))))))

[Evangelista]

Thanks everyone...

((Myself))..yup..your right about the dissociation..self injury..had sessions with the Trauma Specialist and T last night...just wanted to say your correct...but they are proceeding cautiously in this area...

I have bits of recollection of abuse events, but their ceremonies are more indoctrination, and part of the religion itself, and there were no mass gathering of abuse situations which occur in some cults..but more of what has been brought up in the papers with certain religions..knowing, allowing, then hiding the perps..type of issues..

I can say because of what happened..I have a warped sense of what God is and isnt..because he used that during the ick..the bits of ick are just statements I hear in my head..playing over and over..and body memories..and gaps of ick..sexual abuse survivors know what I am talking about..and I wont go further on "R*ping a Child"

but stuff like "Luv me", "Luv God"..type of statements were used, and have not been able to seperate any feeling other than luv for the person who did this..because this is broken into parts.. started right after I lost my father when I was about 6 and may have contributed to amnesia of that event..dont know..havent been there yet to know how that got filed..so now when we are working in therapy...its hard for others to understand..its not that I dont need to feel the horror and pain, anger toward what happened..because part of my healing will be able to do this..its just because his use of God at a time of innocence, when he placed "Father" in his statements and threatened to take that away if away if I told anyone, which has all been revealed as we peel this apart like an onion..is placed out of counscious processing different levels..you may be able to explain the BASK model better than I Myself..but its a part of that..

How can you teach a child about the concepts of love, faith and heaven then..crap..take it all away because of some carnal desire which he believed was his God Given right to act out..

What he did was beyond wrong, what my mind/body is doing is screwed up..Half the time I think I am going to hell for just talking about it, the other half I am already living in it so whats the difference...oh poop...sorry..

I have a part of me that wont allow the "Luv God" issue to be seperated from what he did..that is what is so screwed up..

This perticular religion like most has had their day in court settling with survivors of this type of ick..but I am not mad at them for what one person did..what irks me is their ability to cover up, use the indocterination,intimidation, and yes even "God" to continue to silence victims..oh its so hard to explain..unless you have been brainwashed by one of these organizations on what is happening..it can make you feel guilty about feeling anything other than utter blind devotion to their way of doing things..so bad that..even when you know its wrong its not..and now that I am suffering so in Recovery...I would still want to go back to it...almost mimics the abusive marriage I stayed in for so long..its the unfamilar which torments..to not know control is to be in chaos...

Thanx for letting me talk about it though...I really think its a core issue, since I cant even enter a church without being Triggered and hearing things..statements, images..

On the cliff when I was 9..now that I understand more of what is going on..we have worked on the memory part of this, it was after the Abuser pushed me away from him, afraid I was going to expose him, he was going into the room with another little girl, much younger, so on the cliff with a childs mind..I was going home to be in heaven..afterall I had kept my promise not to tell..he would keep his promise to luv me..if it wasnt for those ppl screaming at me I would have walked right off..because of what I now know about dissociation..I wasnt there, I was back in the place he had put a part of me..the part that knew only God's luv for children..and I needed that more than anything else..is is so sad that these Abusers dont know what they do to a person's soul as well as their minds..

[LMo]

((( Evangelista )))

The fact that it's religious in itself does not mean you can't talk about it here. If you were abused, use the trigger icon and talk as you need to. The "limit religious discussions" guideline means that we don't want debates about which (if any) is the "best" religion or whether religion is good or bad. I think what you want to express is much, much different than that kind of discussion, and I wouldn't want to see you deprived of this avenue for support. If you are concerned that your post could cross a guideline, you are more than welcome to send it to me or another mod/admin for prior review, if you prefer.

I was going home to be in heaven..afterall I had kept my promise not to tell..he would keep his promise to luv me..if it wasnt for those ppl screaming at me I would have walked right off.

(((((((((((((Evangelista)))))))))))))

[Monty_girl]

Abuse is very hard to deal with, and then being abused in the name of religion it becomes even harder. Thank You for speaking up. And I believe you. You don't have to be scared or intinidated here.
Deprogramming is exetremely hard and very confusing. It takes so much strength. You are strong enough to do it. You made the biggest step saying that it happened. We are all here for you.

Lisa

[Rhapsody]

((( hugs ))) - I try to remember that RELIGION is not God, but rather the people with in the building and their own personal belief..... and not that of Him.

[mlyn]

[_skylin_]

evangilesta, tons of hugs your way. truth.

i can't go into things just yet, cause if my own crap, i guess. but i DO want you to know you are sooooo NOT alone, sweety. truth. bless your heart. i'm so very sorry for what you have endured. and sad, and angry.

my exhusbnd was a minister of our 'church' and abusive. and i have found out that he was SA to my son.

this is probly not the same thing, but awful just the same, in that it DOES take away the sense of 'church is safe' from us forever. and opens up an entire lifetime of 'i can't even find the words to describe it'.

i just want you to know that i read, and i'm here for you. truth.

sara

[January]

(((((((((( Evangelista )))))))))))))))

I am so, so sorry. My heart breaks for you.

Hugs,

Jan

[downsolong]

I feel for yah and think the subject is very important. I hope you can find help and applaude you for risking to bring it up where it would seem to be verboten by from my perspective , counter productive to mental health seeking guidlines.
Anyway good luck~Down

[Evangelista]

Thank you all for the support...this type of abuse by members of clergy, and organized religions/cults, is a topic that is sooo hard..

I will not bash any religous belief system, thats not what this is about, whether one religion is better or right, whose God is right or wrong, etc...what this thread is about..for me..is about abuse of power/authority of any religion when it comes to sexual abuse of children, and how it affects the victim, and their families...this society's condoned silence being forced onto families, and victims must stop ..

I have a voice that calls me horrible names and is centered around this abuse..most ppl dont know what kind of hell this has put me in..but other survivors of this type of abuse do...and I wont remain silent if allowed to discuss it here..because anyone who has been thru this or wants to comment should be able to find help and finally be able to find a voice....there own voice..which says..hey wait a minute..I am not this horrible filthy object because of what I hear in my head..I am suffering from psychological physical spiritual torture...because of not only what one man did to my body and mind, but the reinforcement of guilt that I have to endure because you cant talk about the weapon of choice he utilized to keep me silent..and that weapon happened to be "God" ...every abuser uses some horrible tactic to keep the victim silent..we try over and over again in our society to tell the victim..talk about it..tell someone..get it out..but when it comes to abusers being, religous leaders or members of clergy, or any number of authority figures we entrust our children to..you can almost hear an audible collective..shhhhh..not so loud..someone will hear you..

[Monty_girl]

Ty for opening up this topic and thread. For all of us here who have been abused by religious fingures this thread means a lot.

Your words today really touched me. I had gone to the leader of my church as a child around 11yrs old and asked for help because I stated I was being abused at home. The reaction I got was to go home and do as I was told and not say words against my family. We tell our children to trust these authority fingures. That they are here to help us. The complete loneliness you feel as a child when no one in the world is safe. Having to stop here.

This is just a really good thread and thank you for speaking about this emotional, spiritual, torture of our whole being.

Lisa

[wanttoheal]

Yes, that word... l-o-v-e. even that word is a trigger because it has with it a horrible meaning. God. Father. Love. Yuck. What God meant for good, man turned it to bad. And it's hard to separate what is truth and what is programming.

Understand the horrible names and the Shhhh-ing. There is something about that kind of authority figure. They appear more powerful than the average authority figure. Well, gosh, they have a direct channel to God, right? Who are we to go against that... It's hard for me to get past that programming to see the truth sometimes. I struggle with it a lot.

I don't have much of a voice and I'm unable to discuss for the most part, but I'm here Evangelista and I hear what you are saying. I understand more than I want to or wish I did. I want to be able to support you. I am listening.

[JustAPixie]

(((((((((((((( Evangelista )))))))))))))

I also had an experience with a religious cult... I know how you feel. The fear, the shame and the disbelief.

[Evangelista]

Wow..so many here..I am sorry everyone..really I am..for the way we have to deal with this..

Each of you are in my thoughts..

If you need to express..or can..continue posting..if it helps to talk about what you can..I know we dont want to get into specifics about the Religion..most wont..I know I wont out of fear..

As most know who have lived thru and made it out of a cult experience..you never really walk away without a shadow..hard to explain more than that. Even harder is the untangible draw to go back, when you know its wrong..I dont know what it is...or how to describe it....I have heard of animals running back into a burning barn..maybe thats a good anology of it...dunno..grasping to understand the pull ya know...

Again, thanx everyone for the support..and for those that live this, and are surviving...be safe..its a journey of steps, not leaps...take care..

[JustAPixie]

I think sometimes the mystery of it all seems to promise us something that we don't have... and acceptance no matter who you are. But I also don't really know why it's always such a temptation after what we had to endure and knowing the lies they feed us.

[Evangelista]

Perhaps the lies are less painful than the truth, until your out and realize what has happened, ergo, the draw back into the lie may be a way of trying to deflect the hurt. I am trying to learn that healing cannot be accomplished in an enviroment which allows for continued violation of the truth...the truth that I am not someone's property, my body was not meant to be owned and I refuse to be bonded to someone by a sexual act forced upon a child...

((Tanya)) hoping only the best for you in Recovery..