[Moose72]

Strange question, now that I type it out. I've never really discussed this except with my ex-husband when we first started dating and having sex. We were 19 then.

When I was 10, my family moved to a bigger house, and along with that sent me and my younger sister to private school. The classes were "split"- with two grades each. We were each in the younger grade. This isn't really about my sister- but she did find out eventually.

In the older grade of my class was a boy who, besides being 13 and in 6th grade, wasn't too bright, either. That is, I don't think he was merely "left back" a grade. At some point, he started writing me notes saying things like "Meet me outside at 2nd recess in the woods."

I don't remember why or what I was thinking, but I took him up on his "invite", and for three years, we would sneak off to the woods and having "clothes sex". I didn't know what it was then. I kind of figured out after a while that it had to do with sex. I remember it feeling good, which confused me. I specifically remember having an orgasm. Mostly, though, I felt smothered and held down disassociated.

Now that I write that, just the other day, I got very upset at my boyfriend of 2 years (I'm 35 and he's 48) for pretending to hold me down. Same thing happened with a short-dating "boyfriend" of mine 3 years ago.

Eventually, it all ended when we heard our names being called by one of the teachers, while we were walking back out of the woods. I was embarrassed. His parents were called and I got a talking-to by our teacher in the classroom- alone. Talk about humiliation! The teacher told me "I don't want you to ever do that again until you're grown up and married."

But before that happened, my mom and dad had "the talk" with me and my sister. I was about 12 and hadn't had a period yet. I showed her the "notes". She asked if he ever "put it in". I said he hadn't. That was the end of that. However, between then and when this all ended, a year went by and I HAD started having periods. Because my mom told me that I WOULD get pregnant after I'd started having periods, I worried when I was "irregular"! Ugh.

To top it off, all the kids in the school seemed to know- even before the teachers found out. In fact, now that I think of it, one of my classmates must've told. Before that, though, I got mercilessly teased, as did he.

Was this sexual abuse, do you think since we were both kids? We were 10 & 13 through 13 & 16.

[Perna]

It depends on how abuse is defined; I think with kids there has to be more than 3 years difference or it's just "experiment" or whatever they call it and neither party is responsible for any negative feelings. In some ways it certainly sounds traumatic though, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone suggested you had PTSD from the whole experience from the beginning through the teasing and all. Since he was a child too and "slow" as you put it and experienced the same teasing, I think it was just a really bad experience for both of you, influencing you now. But there wasn't an adult you had to obey or anything which is usually the way abuse is defined. I fooled around with cousins and girlfriends, etc. and am ashamed of that and influenced by that but that wasn't abuse, just one's whole makeup and experiences and background teaching, etc. not meshing together well.

[Moose72]

I had thought they same thing, Perna, with the exception that I never FELT like we were experimenting. I felt like I was being done "to". And yes he was 3 years older, but in my book 13 is a lot different than 10. I don't think he was predatory- but just that I felt like I somehow "had" to go with him. It somehow made a weird imprint on me, anyway, you're right. I rarely have thought about it, and had a bit of guilt when I was a kid.

I think it was a sexually unsafe feeling you had inside when the event happened. I wouldnt say it was abuse, but we at times can feel sexually unsafe and exploited without someone abusing us. It sounds like it made an imprint on you that it was something you didnt like and having a voice to things that feel good and things that dont is healthy for you.

[utprincess]

I'm new here,so I won't say much accept I agree with you and thanks for making that distinction, because for me I constantly battle with the idea of consent or abuse as it pertains to the unwelcomed experiences of my childhood

[Cyran0]

I have a slightly different take on this.

I worry less about the age and more about power. Was he an authority figure, was he experienced enough to manipulate you, was he physically overpowering, was the event against your will?

These sorts of questions are key, I think, and only you can answer them. If you answer yes to any of them, it could be abuse.

Regardless of the label, clearly you have some emotions associated with the event that need to be worked out. You might consider talking to a therapist.

Cyran0

[Moose72]

Thanks. I actually missed my pdoc appointment today- because I got confused and my cell phone "reminder" told me it was tomorrow! Tomorrow "Monday". lol It thought there were two Monday the 4ths in a row, apparently, until I rebooted. lol I see her in a week, but to check up on other things- meds, bipolar stuff. I might save this for my social worker, who does all of the talk therapy with me. I've never thought it bothered me too much - until I suddenly get upset at being held down during sex. It isn't everything that has to do with trust and control with sex- just being held down. Funny thing is, I have a brown belt in judo- and that involves a lot of wrestling and pinning and VERY rough grappling with men- and that's never bothered me. Then again, all you have to do is "tap out".

[Cyran0]

Maybe you can make a similar arrangement with your partner. Some signal that means you are "tapping out".

Cyran0

[I_WMD]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Cyran0 said:
I have a slightly different take on this.

I worry less about the age and more about power. Was he an authority figure, was he experienced enough to manipulate you, was he physically overpowering, was the event against your will?

These sorts of questions are key, I think, and only you can answer them. If you answer yes to any of them, it could be abuse..>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.. Insert below by WmD.

HUH ??????????????? Hope I am reading this alllllllllllllll wrong ...... Less about age and more about POWER ???? Was He an authority FIGURE ?????

I thought we were talking about a 13 year old boy and a 10 year old girl ???? How does that equate with experience and manipulation ?????

Maybe I go back and see if I am reading on the right post .>> [ or same ] <<. <<<<<<, end of insert .

Cyran0

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

[kimmydawn]

I think what matters is what it "felt" like to you. That's where the damage occurs. If it felt like abuse, that's what you're dealing with, those feelings.

The facts are really secondary and basically used in placement way after the feelings have been dealt with, or was in my case.

For instance, I look back as an adult and know my brother probably wasn't going to kill me (well, that's still debatable). As that child, I knew no such thing. Knowing that he would and that it was only a matter of time is what cause horrible damage for me. Children can't process as adults can.

So yes, if it felt that you had no control in what was going on, it was abuse...whether or not it's legally called that. That abuse has stayed with you and what now has to be dealt with.

I learned this in therapy when my feelings about childhood abuse didn't match my intellectual understanding of today. My feelings were very childlike in many ways with this and memories were skewed by those feelings. Then my intellectual mind would get involved and say it wasn't accurate, stop it, etc. It was horrible.

The bottom line was that those feelings that experienced so much pain, hurt and degradation needed to be addressed due to the abuse suffered.

I wish you well, hon. It sounds to me like it felt like abuse, and no matter what another would call it, it's that abuse you are dealing with.

Be safe,

KD

[Cyran0]

Hmm, not sure what about my post is throwing you wmd but I'll try to clarify what I'm getting at.

If one person has power or control over another and uses that power or control to take sexual advantage of a person, that's abusive. Power or control can take many forms. It can be physical, social, institutional, etc.

So how could this apply to the scenario above? If the boy were physically stronger and he forced himself on her, if his three year advantage made him an elder or authority figure in her eyes (the way a babysitter or older brother might be), if he were more mentally or emotionally mature/experienced than her and she was easy for him to talk into things, then this argument of possible abusive behavior could apply.

To clarify further, I'm not saying it DOES apply, I'm just saying one of these factors could be relevant.

I'm also trying to point out that it's about the people involved and not the age. There is legal precedent for this in juvenile courts across the country. If say, some fourteen year old boy rapes a thirteen year old girl, nobody says, "well it's only a year difference."

And my motive for sharing that thought is a simple one, if someone feels hurt by a sexual act in their childhood, it shouldn't be dismissed just because of age. It needs to be understood, processed, and treated.

Cyran0

Cyran.

I agree. abuse has to do with the power difference. That is, of course, seperate from how we feel about the situation, which is also important. I think though abuse ascribes that someone acted to take advantage of us. I think you can feel powerless without being abused. You can be abused without feeling powerless. Its complicated, but most imporant is that we deal with our feelings about what happened to us. I just thing (This may just be me though) that we get too wrapped up in labeling something abuse... for some reason it holds some significance to us. Indeedd, in many cases we need that label to give us voice though.

[Cyran0]

Calling it abuse is only important if the victim lacks context or understanding of what happened. If they are able to heal while calling it chocolate chip cookies, I say call it cookies.

Cyran0

[I_WMD]

Yea Ok Cyro >>> I thought the Boy was mentally challenged ?? I must be stupe.

[Cyran0]

No, don't say that about yourself wmd. I just wasn't sure where I lost you so I wanted to be pretty specific in my elaboration.

That and, as always, who the hell's to say I'm right? I'm just one overly opinionated guy.

Cyran0