Feel Trapped Into Accepting Job

Thanks!

I feel a bit crazy right now... the conversation went really well. My friend's friend is very nice, and smart, and since she came from the group that I'm in, she totally understands how badly it's being run and how it feels like my brain is dying. She felt the same way before she got out of the group, and told me that it was a bit scary for at first, having to really *think* about things again.

But the group sounds wonderful, very collaborative and friendly with good management. And, it sounds like they've got some neat projects going on. I'm a little worried that their charter is a bit more limited than ours, but at this point, even with that I think I'd have more work to do, more challenges, and more learning opportunities.

It IS a little scary though. I was pretty honest about things I was worried about (areas where I don't have as much expertise as I think they'd want for this role), but she wasn't worried about it, and said alot of that stuff she had to learn on the job too.

I guess I'm also kind of nervous because... this isn't really my end-goal for my life/career. I don't know what that IS though... and I haven't made any progress figuring it out, despite having lots of free time while working mostly from home, so... I'm thinking the benefits of this job would very much outweigh the risks here. It sounds like there'd be a LOT of work though... so it would be a big change, and that is scary. I'm not a super fast worker (I tend to be slow, but thorough!).

PHEW! Thanks for letting me blab! Like I said, my head is spinning a bit... but I think it's a good opportunity, and if I don't do this, I can't see any other options. The current job is just really killing my career, honestly. There's no room for any kind of growth, and my boss won't/can't acknowledge that!

Oh! And, I totally what you get about some people having an easier time dealing with the workplace. But you know what, I bet if you were in a position to have really honest conversations with others on your team, you'd find quite a few of them had the same concerns/issues as you did. Part of what amazes me at my current job is that it's very isolating... but when I do manage to talk to people, I find out that there are many others who are unhappy, feel isolated, aren't challenged, don't have enough to do, think our boss isn't managing the team well etc. It just feels like it's "just me" because I'm not often in a position to talk about this stuff with people (it's usually not a good idea to talk about this stuff, unless you know someone really well!). It's sad... I was thinking in my current position, it *should* be a very cool awesome job. We're supposed to be doing really neat, innovative stuff. But *I* don't get to do any of that stuff. Maybe my boss gets to, but it doesn't trickle down, and nobody realizes how sad those of us at the next level down are!

How is your stuff going? Have you thought any more about reaching out to your friend? Or are you going to hope it all sort of dies down?

If it is a good place to work, you'll be permitted (possibly encouraged!) to expand your role over time and to take on challenges that will advance your career -- and it doesn't sound like that's happening at all where you are. It's kind of exciting to be going into a job knowing that you will get to learn and do new things

It's so disappointing to be in a place where you know that you can do XYZ, you have time to do those things... and they just don't want you to, for whatever reason. I have encountered employers who like the idea of change and improvement during the interview, but in reality it's a bit too much for them.

I did hear back from my friend, finally. She asked me if I had met with this guy or decided not to. She's meeting with senior management tomorrow to discuss the state of this position and how she thinks these things need to be handled completely differently.

There are a couple of things I've found helpful in terms of thinking about my career:
Book « Escape From Cubicle Nation There's a link to a life-plan worksheet at the bottom of the page.

The other idea is to write a description of the worst job in the world, with all the reasons why it's bad... and then use that as the basis for writing out a description of an ideal job.

I'll add the disclaimer that I've learned things doing both of those exercises, but I still haven't figured out what I want to do I think I kind of know what I want, actually, but I'm afraid to admit it to myself.

Oh wow, just got another email from my friend - she wants to know what it would take for me to be interested. I am so not sure what to say. Right or wrong, I am really just not interested. I do not want to work for this guy and I have the feeling he wouldn't take kindly to me if the position is pulled from his department. I don't want to be in the middle of a political battle, which is where I feel I am.

I told my friend that I would be happy to continue the contract, coming in a couple of days a week on a scheduled basis, not under the supervision of this person I've been talking to. That would give them time to figure out what they really want and me time to see if I want to work there. It would also pay my bills but let me preserve this life of leisure I've enjoyed lately.

I can't believe I already have another update to this saga, but I do. The last I heard from the interviewer, he was asking me to give him some times I could come in (for the third time). I did.

I just learned from my friend that he has scheduled a meeting with me this week (and invited my friend). The joke is that it isn't on a day I said I was available, I am absolutely not available, and he hasn't even told me yet!

I don't think I even want to do the contract work at this point.

Man hvert, he sounds like he is giving you the run around! It's passive aggressive. I know you need this job but how long has he been dragging this out?! This is not cool at all. You are well aware of this but this is a huge red flag. If you declined this, I certainly wouldn't judge you harshly.

Hi Hvert,

Oh wow. That is just nuts. I think I said it before, but this guy just gets more and more unbelievable. Either he's totally crazy (as in, literally experiencing dementia) or he's really just screwing around with you. Who does stuff like that? I especially *love* that he hasn't actually told you about the meeting yet! I hope you let your friend know that? Because, it sounds like he's setting you up here (maybe I'm just paranoid) - like he doesn't tell you, you don't show up, then he can say... "Well, how can we hire this person who doesn't even bother to show up for meetings!".

Maybe he conveniently "forgot" to tell you? (OK, to be fair, maybe he sent you an email and it got lost in cyberspace - I know that happens too sometimes. But with this guys track record?!)

I'm sorry it's turning into such a circus. I hope you can find something infinitely better!

Thanks for the suggestions for my stuff! I actually have that book (Cubicle Nation) - at least an early copy of it! I was taking a teleclass with Pam Slim, but the class wasn't working out for me - so instead of a refund, she asked if I wanted to do a couple private coaching sessions. She's really awesome! And, she sent me a pre-press copy of the book from that! I've thumbed through it, but I don't think I really sat down and read it, so I'll put that back on my list... (I'm sort of drowning in therapy-type books right now, so not sure I can start something new at the moment).

Interesting exercise about writing "the worst job in the world" description - neat!

And... gosh, I'm sort of dying to know why you can't admit what you really want to do to yourself! No pressure - you don't have to tell me - but if you ever want to talk about it

Thanks!

i hope all works out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not just you! Imagine what he's going to do when/if you actually get the job.

Thanks for the moral support! Quite a few people have suggested that he's trying to set me up by claiming I'm a no show to the interview, so I don't think that's paranoia.

I'm having lunch with my friend today and should have a better update after that, but so far this guy still hasn't gotten in touch. I told him last week that I could meet this Thursday morning. As far as I'm concerned, that's off the table - I'm not going to give the appearance that I'm just sitting around waiting for his summons.

It's just the sheer insanity of this weird negotiation. Why do I have to talk to this guy at all? Why is he still part of this process? If the two owners and my friend want to hire me for a role outside of this guy's department, why does it matter what he thinks?

Ahh, this may be the final update!

I had lunch with my friend. She confirmed most of what I suspected and shared some stories that scared me off even more. The company, including the owners, thinks that IT is just a cost center. They think that IT people just make up stuff to do to keep themselves employed. They would rather lose hundreds of thousands a year in stolen equipment, unmanaged contracts, and insane purchasing practices (never mind their exposure to data theft!). They don't get it.

Also, even as a contractor, I would be reporting to this guy.

I told my friend that I'll work directly for her, but not for him. She has some projects she wants me to do, so at least I will keep my hand in it.

Also, I heard from him this afternoon, asking if I can come in Friday and suggesting we wait until after the new year to pick this up again if not.

So now I have to decide whether to tell him that I am not interested now or drag this out further. I also have to decide whether or not I want to suggest a contract arrangement to him for project based work. I just have such a bad feeling about reporting to him.

Hi Hvert...

Wow, everything you wrote about how the company sees IT sounds awful. It just doesn't sound like a good environment at all. Are you going to go ahead and work on the projects for your friend? It sounds like that would be a good way to get a bit more work, without having to deal with that guy (if I'm understanding correctly).

Even as a contractor, do you think you'd want to work for that guy? He just sounds like he'd make your life miserable...

I'm going to do the work for my friend, yes. I may even be able to do some of it from home.

I don't think I would want to work for this guy, but I might if I don't come up with a better alternative six months down the road. I left it that we would be in touch after the New Year, so I have some more time to think about it. I think he would be a difficult client, especially since he seems to be a poor communicator and arbitrary control freak.

I also think that what I would propose would not interest him. I'd be okay coming in one or two days a week to do whatever needed to be done and would accept longer term projects, like launching a new phone system. I asked him at one point during our conversation why he didn't have a contract with a company that provides systems management services and he told me that he was too busy to deal with a vendor... so it just doesn't get done. Apparently there were a few systems meltdowns this week that disrupted everyone's work, for what that's worth.

This whole thing has just been so strange. I will probably just tell him that I don't want full-time work right now after all and leave it at that.

Do you have any news on changing companies???

I'm glad you'll be able to work for your friend at least. That's a good opportunity, and when you look at other jobs, it will look good to have some recent experience, right? Nice that you can do some of it at home!

That was smart of you to push it off into the new year. I don't know what else to say, he just sounds awful enough that it's hard to see the upside of working with him. I don't know, I guess there could be a case where if he's really too busy to deal with this stuff (as he said), you become the hero by taking it over. But he just sounds too nutty to deal with, unless you're good with those types of people (some people seem to just magically be able to make it work with difficult people, I don't know how though!)

Good luck with him, whatever you decide to do!

Thanks... I don't have any more news. I wouldn't actually be changing *companies* (that's part of the beauty of it, it's the same company, just a different group within the big company - so I'd keep all my benefits and seniority!). No news though - I saved up all my vacation and now am on vacation until Jan. 2! Soooo nice and relaxing. I'm getting stuff done around the house, and my therapist has given me homework to do "3 fun things" before I see him again (lol). I'm meeting a friend at the local museum tomorrow morning, so I'm excited (and happy to cross one "fun thing" off my list, ha!)

I'm trying not to worry too much about it right now. I'm a little nervous b/c I don't really know what to say when I get back to move things forward. The woman I spoke to had sent me an email telling me that she enjoyed talking to me, and to let her know if I have any other questions. I think I might ask about programs they're using for design, and let her know that I'd love to come over and help out if they can use me. I'm sure that I should be asking more questions, but gosh, at this point - as long as they don't *lower* my salary - it just seems like someone throwing me a lifeline to get out of the group I'm in...

Good luck Hvert! And, I hope maybe something else unexpectedly pops up for you, so that when the new year comes, you have some new, better options to think about!

I hope you enjoy your vacation! Your homework assignment sounds like fun. I took an MBA class that used the 'Artist's Way' book (it might have targeted business?) and enjoyed the assignment to do one new thing each week.

To move things forward, could you just express enthusiasm about possibly joining her team? It seems unlikely that they would actually lower your salary, doesn't it? If you have the strong recommendation of your friend and if the manager is trying to recruit you... I might ask my friend what design programs they use so I can mention my familiarity with them to the boss

I'm trying not to think about my situation. I've already spent so much time being stressed out about this place when they aren't even paying me - it's kind of ridiculous

Thanks! I'm LOVING my vacation so far. I can't believe how much better I feel without having the stress of my job dragging me down, and how much easier it is to eat healthy, sleep well, get outside and move a bit, and just generally relax. I feel like a totally different person. It's really crazy... and I'm starting to already dread going back!

Thanks for the idea about moving things forward! I think I was hoping to use the question to show I'm engaged and interested, since I'm sort of blanking out on other things to ask. Really, it sounds so good - I feel like I don't need any more info, I'm ready to go. If she offered me the position today, I'd jump on it! And, right - I don't think they'd lower my salary, that would be crazy. It'd be nice to get a bump up (my friend did when she moved over), but I think she brought a bit more experience in design that I don't yet have, and she might have been making less than me in our group, so I'm not too worried about that.

I will email her as soon as I get back to the office, in early January. We've been talking through our work email (since we're at the same company), and I really don't want to log in and see the billion emails that people have sent while I'm on vacation!

I don't blame you for not wanting to think any more about that guy and the job, you're right, it's creating way more stress than it's worth! I hope you enjoy the holidays, and can just put it out of your mind for a bit!

Thanks!

All I might suggest is to ultimately 'go with your gut', as it is best in sorting out how you may ultimately feel if you accept this job. Moreover, if you go in with worries or a sinking feeling, it will likely become a self fulfilling prophecy

The further away I get from the conversation I had with this guy, the more comfortable I am with my decision to just close this door, even if I don't have an immediate alternative income source in mind. I don't want to work for people who don't respect the work I do. I don't like the office location or the office itself. I don't want to do that kind of work anymore, not even on a contract basis.

Guilloche, I am looking forward to an update on your possible transfer when you get back to work I hope you had a refreshing vacation!

My saga continues. I feel like there's some kind of communication gap between my friend and I. I just got another email from her telling me to put whatever offer I want on the table, that I have nothing to lose and am 100% in the driver's seat... and that the key in her mind is to get the position away from this guy I don't want to work for.

I responded and asked for clarification. I don't get it. From our conversation, it sounded like that was not possible. I am not sure how I can present an offer to X saying that X should not be supervising the role.

Hi Hvert...

Sorry I missed the update. My vacation ended on Friday, and I'm back at work - and miserable. So miserable. I mostly work from home, and I literally have nothing to do, and no communication from my boss/team. It's like I don't exist. It's unreal. We do have a team meeting schedule for tomorrow morning, by phone, so we'll see what's happening. It just feels ridiculous and crazy to be "back at work" after three weeks, and have *nothing* from anyone.

That does sound confusing (about putting an offer in that specifies not working for the guy who thinks he's hiring you!). Can you get your friend on the phone to figure out what's going on? I find that some people aren't good with communicating important details in email, and a short call can clear up the confusion - maybe you need to talk to her?

Hmm.... otherwise, I don't know what to say! You seemed to be in a good place with not pursuing the job, then she pops up and tells you to ask for whatever you want! If it's work you don't want to be doing anymore, maybe it is better to let it go? I don't know... if you could use the cash and don't mind doing it, and can manage to get it positioned so that you're not reporting to that guy... it might be worth it? Do you know what you DO want to be doing? That's always my biggest stumbling block. I don't want to do something that I know is not on the path to where I want to be, but it's hard to figure that out when you have no clue where you want to be.

Really, honestly, at this point... "where I want to be" is just retired and done! But that's still a long way off, I'm afraid.

Good luck!

Oh and the update... I emailed the woman to let her know that I'd love to work with her, and asking if she needed anything from me, since we hadn't had a chance to work together. She asked for some work samples, so I've uploaded those for her. I haven't heard anything back yet. I'm hoping she's just busy and taking her time to look through the things I've done... as opposed to being horrified by my work and trying to find a nice way to say "no thank you"

Thanks for asking... I'm still holding on to some hope!

It's really strange how awful it can be to have nothing to do. At least if you are in an office, you can go gossip with coworkers or clean out your filing cabinet. To be sitting at home waiting for someone to contact you, not fun. Can you go off and do something fun or do you have to be available in case something happens? At least it gives you plenty of time for coming up with a reply to the woman leading the other team! Are you in a technical field also?

I haven't heard from my friend - or her coworker. I do think that it's easier to talk to her on the phone or in person... but we just *did* talk in person and now her email is saying something at odds with that conversation. She's quite different from most people, so I don't feel like I can just call her.

I guess I *don't* know what I want to be doing either. Sometimes I think I do, but then I change my mind or forget what it is I thought I wanted. I know some of the attributes and how I want it to fit into my life. I suspect that I would like to be involved in small, finite projects. I also think those projects might involve systems design here, a website there, an app or two - and perhaps something not related to technology at all - travel guides, small business advising services.

The problem with the above is that there's an incredible lack of focus. At the same time, I find it hard to stomach the idea of committing to just one thing.

I've been living for a few years like I'm retired and done and that time is coming to an end. I keep putting this off!!

Just got an email from the guy. Now it's like the paralysis has set back in. I really wish I knew why I was like this. I feel like a normal person would just say yes or no or 'what about this instead' and stop thinking about. It's like I analyze every small decision to death.

Hi Hvert!

re: Analyzing things - do you think it might just be part of your personality? I'm like that too, and I think it might just be a personality trait. Have you ever looked at the "DISC" personality system? I took a test based off it once, and scored highest in blue, which correlated to... oh gosh, I can't remember what the letters stand for, I think it was "C" which was... conscientiousness. So, paying attention to details and analyzing stuff. My undergrad work was in computer science and I think that's a good match for conscientiousness. (Somebody once told me that "a good programmer is someone who looks both ways before crossing a one-way street"! I *loved* that!)

Since you mentioned working in technology, I wonder if that might be part of it? And, if so, I guess I wanted to tell you that it's not a *bad* thing - it just means we need a lot more detail and precision when making decisions! I'm the same way, I weigh *everything* and do as much research and info-gathering as I can. It can be exhausting, and I'm trying to learn to identify what things don't need so much research so I can make time for more important things.

Anyway, why is that guy emailing you now? Is this the "I'll be back in touch early in the new year" email? I guess he doesn't know that the rest of the company wants to get this functionality away from him? Ugh - they're putting you in a really rotten spot. You shouldn't be the one who has to tell him that he shouldn't be running this, that's crazy!

That is weird that you just talked to your friend, and that now she seems to be saying something different. Yikes... good luck getting it figured out. Again, maybe that's a sign that it's not the right opportunity? For me, that sort of thing makes me nervous - when thinks don't seem to add up correctly, it seems like it's because there's something underhanded or bizarre going on, and I don't deal well with stuff like that. Better to avoid it if possible but that's just been my experience!

Anyway, it IS weird here how stressful not having anything to do is. I've tried explaining it to my therapist, but I don't think he's getting it. I don't mind "down time" at all and am great at keeping myself busy and entertained, but this is a fairly frequent thing with my boss, and it makes me feel like I don't matter at all. Like I don't exist. And, I just had a "team meeting" with him, and I told him that I'm not working on anything, but am talking to someone later this afternoon about a project, and he just thought that was great. It's like he didn't even hear the fact that right now, I've got *nothing*. But, my boss also said something like, "I think things are coming together from a synergy perspective, and I'm gratified to hear that." - so I think he's off in his own happy place these days!

I know what you mean about a lack of focus. I feel that too. The truth is, there are just LOTS of things that fascinate me... and right this second, my job isn't one of them, sadly. I'm starting to think though that my real job in this lifetime is to figure out all my health stuff (physical and mental) and that needs to be my focus, and that the "job" is just a way to support myself until I get all that taken care of ("one day..."). But I don't know, your job has such a big effect on your mood and health, I don't know that I can afford to wait it out... who knows. I'm interested in crazy stuff (like writing for TV or theater!) but I don't really have any skills in those areas... I did take an acting class last fall and *loved* it so much... though it's crazy stressful and I don't think I really have any talent (or looks!) for that sort of thing, it was oodles of fun. I'm trying to work up the nerve to take the next class soon!

Good luck with dealing with all the "potential work" stuff!

I do think it's a personality thing, yes, but one that could use a bit of toning down. I like that quote about a good programmer being someone who looks across the street both ways!

I had lunch with a friend whose balanced outlook I really appreciate. He's an entrepreneur, but not the typical type, if that makes sense, much more risk averse than most, more interested in his life than his work.

His take was that I have nothing to lose by presenting my thoughts to the company, even if one of those thoughts is 'Hey, Joe, you're really too busy to supervise this role and it doesn't belong buried in the middle of this department. Why don't I report to X instead?' He thought that I should get really clear about what I would need to do the job and just go back in and talk to them.

He also said that my approach seemed very professional, my observations were good, and that I presented them in a non-confrontational manner. It made me feel better about my ability to possibility negotiate a good deal after all. I think that I've had the tendency to let myself get trampled on professionally in the past.

But, like you said, all of this weird mixed signal stuff makes me want to back away. I don't like dealing with craziness in the workplace and this all seems crazy. I also just don't trust these people. And the thing with telling me about the interview at the last minute - haven't forgotten it.

That synergy comment - is there a more perfect emoticon than the one you used?? Just, wow. I had a job once where I often didn't have any real assignment. I'd be given a month to do a project that took a week to do well, that sort of thing. It really bothered me a lot at the time, but when I ran into that at my next job, I just jumped into teaching myself useful skills while I was waiting for something to do. I started thinking of it in terms of being paid a retainer. It was easy to do since I was really underpaid

It really is stressful, though - I'd start to think that there wasn't enough work for everyone and sooner or later they'll figure it out and I'll lose my job.

Still not sure how I will respond to the latest note. Why does he keep asking me if I am still interested? What is with that?

Hiya Hvert,

Your entrepreneur friends sounds awesome, and very grounded and smart! I love people like that! What he said makes a lot of sense... what do you think? Do you feel like you can approach it like that? (Or if it makes you nervous, like it might be good practice?) The way he put it sounds very empowering to me, very much along the lines of figuring out what you need and saying it, respectfully, but transparently (ok - now *I* sound like a cross between a therapist and my synergistic boss! ) But, you know what I mean?

I also think... with regards to the craziness and the mixed messages... do you think that getting to that place of "personal power" would help deal with some of that? What you wrote made me think that... I'm the same way, I can't deal with the craziness, but part of that (I think?) is because I'm not really "stable" inside. So craziness outside makes me feel crazy and spinning and uncertain inside too. But, some people seem to have a lot of internal stability. If I had that, I wonder if the outer craziness would bother me less, because I'd have my inner stability to help me feel OK, secure, and sane. Then, I think it would be possible to go into a situation like this, see the craziness, but also see what needs to be done and work towards making that happen! Now, the $24,000,000 question... can one actually *get* (develop, learn, ???) that inner stability - or is it just something where you either have it or you don't?

(Sorry if I sound a bit nuts, too much sugar today! And it's freezing here, so I'm actually shivering a little!)

I'm not sure why that guy is still asking if you're interested? Maybe he's picking up on your disinterest in your replies and is trying to figure it out? Maybe he's busy enough that he's hoping you'll drop out, so he can let the whole thing drop and not be blamed for it?

That's a good point about thinking of myself as "on retainer". Sorry if I forgot to reply to this part earlier, but I can't really just go off and do my own thing - my boss tends to be very spontaneous, so I might get a call or email at any moment asking me to please hop on a call (that started 5 minutes ago) or to call him for something. I do stuff around the house and on my home computer, but I stay near my work computer so I can keep an eye on my email. And, I'm trying to get caught up on the awful mandatory training that we have to keep up with (ugh).

Anyway, it looks like I'm about to be super busy again. An old project that we got started and handed off to another team is coming back to us (because they couldn't do it! ha!) and it's a huge one, and I'm getting pulled back into it. I enjoyed working on it last time, but it's a TON of work, and I'm not sure exactly what we're going to be doing this go-around. I'm going in for a meeting tomorrow to get updated on it, so we'll see. It's better than being bored, and better than some of the stuff they had me doing late last year!

Take care!