[arachnophobia.kid]

I have not experienced much relief in the past few days. Trying to cope with life through healthy means take a lot out of me and it can seem fruitless. Currently I'm not tempted to go back to alcohol but instead to other substances. Dextromethorphan has been calling me. I know that'd be just as bad as going back to alcohol, possibly worse, and no matter how it plays out I know it'll ruin things. Still, for some reason I'm able to convince myself that it might be fine and that it's worth the risk. I really want some relief.

[emgreen]

I hope you don't choose that route, arachnophobia. Folks who are addicted to one substance often have addictive personalities. Any substance just masks the feelings you're having...The feelings/problems you're experiencing now will still be there when you come down. At that point, it can become a vicious cycle . You've done so well putting the alcohol aside, so I'd hate to see you go down another troublesome path.

I can sympathize with feeling down, by the way. I know, however, that I can't afford to use non-prescription drugs to relieve my problems. It seems that you understand that, too, but are having cravings. I hope you can fight them.

[Beatzen]

I'm stuck in a prison of self-doubt, shame, needing, and wanting. I've barely slept at all and have to make it through this day. I am struggling. I can say that addiction has truly defeated me. I am not thinking clearly but am clear enough to still keep secrets. This is the only place I know that I can just put it out there. Please here me g**. I'm so sorry. It's just me sitting here. Foxhole prayers. My soul is broken. And it's my fault. I'm so sorry.

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[Altered Moment]

**** shame. Go back to meetings. You will be welcomed. Doesn't matter if you slipped.

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[emgreen]

There's a saying around meetings here that goes, "Fish swim, birds fly, drunks drink." In other words, don't beat yourself too much for slipping...It's not that uncommon. I do , however, hope you don't give up on your efforts to lead a clean life.

[thickntired]

Originally Posted by arachnophobia.kid

I have not experienced much relief in the past few days. Trying to cope with life through healthy means take a lot out of me and it can seem fruitless. Currently I'm not tempted to go back to alcohol but instead to other substances. Dextromethorphan has been calling me. I know that'd be just as bad as going back to alcohol, possibly worse, and no matter how it plays out I know it'll ruin things. Still, for some reason I'm able to convince myself that it might be fine and that it's worth the risk. I really want some relief.

I hope you stay sober! What I've learned is a drug is a drug is a drug. Addiction doesn't discriminate. And I sure as hell did not discriminate against any drugs. I did them all and the worst day I have sober will always beat the best day I had drugging. Love & Light ★

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[thickntired]

Originally Posted by Beatzen

I'm stuck in a prison of self-doubt, shame, needing, and wanting. I've barely slept at all and have to make it through this day. I am struggling. I can say that addiction has truly defeated me. I am not thinking clearly but am clear enough to still keep secrets. This is the only place I know that I can just put it out there. Please here me g**. I'm so sorry. It's just me sitting here. Foxhole prayers. My soul is broken. And it's my fault. I'm so sorry.

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Hang in there! I've been exactly where you are, but I don't believe it's your fault. We don't chose addiction; addiction is the symptom so look behind the drinking and drugging. What are you trying to escape? I wasted so many years self-medicating for a litany of mental illness diagnoses. Today I'm on medication (legal meds ha ha) in therapy and have a great AA sponsor. When I wake up I take ownership of my actions; I no longer have to hide from my actions.

Love & Light ♥

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[arachnophobia.kid]

Just over three months sober now. I'm getting these headaches within the past couple weeks and I think I might be having some sort of second wave of withdrawal symptoms, does that happen?

I've read that withdrawal symptoms can exist for up to a year after the last drink, but I figured that was unlikely. I haven't felt any noticeable symptoms for a while, until now that is.

[emgreen]

I'm sorry you've been having headaches. I've never heard of someone having physical withdrawal symptoms three months after staying sober, but I might be wrong. Might it be stress related due to the fact you're not pouring alcohol on your feelings anymore? Possibly the pollen in the air? (It's supposed to be an especially bad year for pollen in our neck of the woods due to the long, harsh winter.)

In any event, I hope your headaches disappear soon.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by arachnophobia.kid

Just over three months sober now. I'm getting these headaches within the past couple weeks and I think I might be having some sort of second wave of withdrawal symptoms, does that happen?

I've read that withdrawal symptoms can exist for up to a year after the last drink, but I figured that was unlikely. I haven't felt any noticeable symptoms for a while, until now that is.

I wouldn't think so for just alcohol, but it would depend on if other drugs were involved, how much, how long, and so on. they all have different withdrawal.

I hope they go away. Eating good, exercise, and good sleep is probably best for withdrawal in general.

[thickntired]

Originally Posted by arachnophobia.kid

Just over three months sober now. I'm getting these headaches within the past couple weeks and I think I might be having some sort of second wave of withdrawal symptoms, does that happen?

I've read that withdrawal symptoms can exist for up to a year after the last drink, but I figured that was unlikely. I haven't felt any noticeable symptoms for a while, until now that is.

Hi. Google paws - post acute withdrawal syndrome. It is a condition that can last over a year in sobriety. The really important thing to know is a relapse will put you right back at the beginning of paws. Some ppl are misdiagnosed with bipolar or other problems that are in fact a symptom of paws.

Take Care

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[arachnophobia.kid]

Originally Posted by thickntired

Hi. Google paws - post acute withdrawal syndrome. It is a condition that can last over a year in sobriety. The really important thing to know is a relapse will put you right back at the beginning of paws. Some ppl are misdiagnosed with bipolar or other problems that are in fact a symptom of paws.

Take Care

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Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I didn't know about PAWS. From what I've read about it so far, I experience mild forms of most of these symptoms. However, overall, this seems a lot more extreme and it doesn't seem to account for any physical symptoms like the headaches I'm having. It's good to know about though.

I'm starting to think that these headaches might be unrelated to alcohol, I'm just so used to associating them with the withdrawal I've experienced in the past.

[thickntired]

I used to get migraines bc I was at an office job in front of a computer screen all day. Also you may need your vision checked.

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[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by arachnophobia.kid

Just over three months sober now. I'm getting these headaches within the past couple weeks and I think I might be having some sort of second wave of withdrawal symptoms, does that happen?

I've read that withdrawal symptoms can exist for up to a year after the last drink, but I figured that was unlikely. I haven't felt any noticeable symptoms for a while, until now that is.

first 90 is the toughest..after that it starts to get really easy..after 6 months you won't miss it!

[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by arachnophobia.kid

Just over three months sober now. I'm getting these headaches within the past couple weeks and I think I might be having some sort of second wave of withdrawal symptoms, does that happen?

I've read that withdrawal symptoms can exist for up to a year after the last drink, but I figured that was unlikely. I haven't felt any noticeable symptoms for a while, until now that is.

i just thought about it..you may not be drinking enough water..keep that in mind most people when they drink get in the habit of not drinking a lot of water..now that you are sober..you will need to catch up on that water..and you may find yourself craving sweets..exercise really helps and eating right good luck!

[Can-I-Say]

I have court tomorrow morning and am reeeeeallly antsy for two or three drinks so I can get to sleep. My nerves are jumpin' like crazy.

[roads]

They've seen so many defendants in different stages of drunk and sober and all steps in-between. It will make for a very hard night--and many little to no sleep.

I believe the more sober you are in court, even if you're shaky and verging on getting sick, the judge will see that you are willing to struggle and suffer to obtain sobriety. That ought to help you get help, rather than punishment.

If you go to court having imbibed the the past 24-36 hrs, these professionals won't be fooled. They will see clearly that you're still running to alcohol, self-medicating and choosing a passive, slow suicide to the effort of getting clean.

Getting sober is worth the effort ... unless, of course, passive suicide in what you're striving for.

Please go to court as sober as possible and admit that you're an alcoholic and do not want to go on like this. Ask for a longterm, residential rehab. Or if sobriety is something you don't want--if you're hoping for an early death, just get through your sentence as a model prisoner. Unless you're collecting DUIs or have otherwise killed someone when you were drunk, the sentence oughtn't to be too bad.

I've been where you are and I seizures when I quit drinking. I had to be put in a medical coma; it could have gone either was. I spent six weeks in a four week residential hospital rehab, because they knew I'd be back if I left the the scheduled time.

That was in 1980. I stayed sober over ten years, then went on a binge and had to start over. I've been sober 20 yrs now, and with the bipolar diagnosis & treatment alcohol isn't calling to me and whispering its obnoxious promises to me. I still got to AA meetings, I still consider myself an alcoholic, and I don't hang out with my old theatre crowd or anyone who tried to get me to have that "just one drink, to celebrate."

Best of luck and perseverance to you. You can get through this victoriously if you get the help you need. I'm thinking of you with a large sense of empathy. I've been where you are, & it's a living nightmare.

I hope you keep posting. There are many generous folks here who will support you if you will make the effort to connect.

Best luck & take best care of yourself.

roads

Originally Posted by Can-I-Say

I have court tomorrow morning and am reeeeeallly antsy for two or three drinks so I can get to sleep. My nerves are jumpin' like crazy.

It's totally not that black and white like steppers want u to believe. If ur in trouble with the law stay clean. Eventually if u want u can look into moderation. And I asked DocJon and he said I could talk about moderation on here. It's not either u do AA or jails institutions and death. AA is a very scary place today. Look it up. If ur young and pretty I wouldn't recommend it. Look up alternatives to AA if you do CHOOSE to go the abstinent route.

[Altered Moment]

I have a very good friend who recently got her second dui. She has flat out told me that she is a hard core alcoholic and I believe her. I have been around her enough when she is drinking to know. He lawyer advised her to jump through all the hoops and loops she needed to to get the lightest sentence. This meant going to AA before you are ordered convincing the judge you are serious about getting and staying sober etc etc. She does not like AA at all. She asked me to take her to meetings and a year a so ago once a week we went for like 8 weaks. The only part she really doesn't like is that they say the Lord's Prayer at the end of the meeting. I don't agree that they should do that even though it doesn't bother me. I don't agree with court ordered AA. It is a program of attraction not promotion, but he courts have adopted it.

She has jumped through the hoops and loops, went to a lot of AA meetings and came out ok legally. 8 hours of jail. She does not want to get sober yet but is looking at alternatives to AA. I can pretty much guarantee she will never be able to drink moderately and neither will I.

It is true that young attractive women are going to get hit on a lot (13th stepping) in AA. Relationships are used a lot as quick fixes. I believe if one is looking into AA as a solution they should really look at the philosophy as it is simply written in the books and see if if make sense to you. To see if you can relate to the alcoholism it talks about and that the members share. There is all kinds of sick behavior by members of AA because it is a bunch of sick people trying to work together to stay sober. You don't have to get all caught up in that. You could have only two or three friends within AA and be successful.

Luckily there are more programs out there with different philosophies that seem to have success. They are not near wide spread enough. My friend said she checked it all out and there is nothing locally and she is in a pretty urban environment.

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

The only part she really doesn't like is that they say the Lord's Prayer at the end of the meeting. I don't agree that they should do that even though it doesn't bother me. I don't agree with court ordered AA. It is a program of attraction not promotion, but he courts have adopted it.

It took me a long time to accept the fact that the Lord's Prayer is said after meetings. I understand peoples objections to this ritual. Fact is, however, it's just a tradition that dates back to the founding of AA in 1935. I learned to live with it as time went on because of this historical perspective.

I agree that the courts shouldn't force people to attend AA. There are many people who are in AA "on paper" who might not be alcoholics. It doesn't take much to blow a .08 (the legal limit here in Michigan), and all you have to do is get stopped once by the police to get court ordered to AA. I agree that the program should be a program of attraction not promotion.

Fifteen years or so ago, there weren't as many people who were court ordered, but there are meetings now I chair where a majority of people are court ordered; it sometimes takes me virtually the entire meeting to sign all the court slips. In addition to being forced to go to AA, the fines, urine drops, counseling etc. that the courts order is prejudicial to folks who are lower-middle class, or perhaps without work. If you've got money folks can jump through the hoops much more easily that those "have nots." The "have nots" sometimes have to go to jail simply because they can't afford the costs associated with complying with the terms of their probation. All in all, it's a messed up system...Seeing what people have to go through with DUIs is added incentive for me to stay stopped one day at a time.

[roads]

Hey, emgreen! It's good to hear from you ... I've miss you lately.

When I moved back to Florida in 1990, I had a devil of a time finding an AA group that fit with me. The ones I was used to in California were much more relaxed than the ones back here in the South.

The Lord's prayer is standard at all AA meetings I've ever been to. I take that in my stride but often don't say it ... I do hold hands to complete the circle. Back here, though, I faced questions that I never had in California, New Mexico, or Nevada: Have I been saved? Was Jesus Christ my personal savior? First time I just said I'm fine, don't worry about me. After that, I started asking, "Is this a Christians-only organization?" If they said they were, I left.

30 years ago, in the Western states, it wasn't just cute young things who got hit on--pretty much everybody at not repulsive was. Within the meetings themselves, that seems to be less of a problem here in Central Florida AA groups I attend.

I completely agree with you, emgreen, that court-ordered AA meetings are asinine. The focus is all wrong. California had DUI classes taught through the state's Highway Patrol. they hired me to teach a class one year! I have speakers from several support groups, including AA. They had the whole program well organized; I didn't have to deal with any paperwork to speak of, beyond attendance.

There is a tremendous variety among AA groups anywhere. It pays to investigate several of them, and talk with any longtime members you meet in one group about others. Groups take on the personality of their most passionate/charismatic member. I credit AAA with helping me get sober--that's was my way, but it wasn't the only thing to help me. Now I have other support that's even more important to me.

Since AA membership is free and the groups are in nearly every area, I would encourage people to consider searching for the right group for them. Invest some time if you don't have another resource.

Take care, y'all.

roads

Nah aaers are the same everywhere. N side w side doesn't matter class or creed. I'm dealing now with my sons father that can't be a father. Makes up the typical AA excuses and he's not even in AA anymore, lol. That brainwashing runs deep...

No it's not true ppl that alcoholics or addicts are worse than ur average person. I have known ppl that are addicts. They would NEVER, EVER molest and rape but that's commonplace in AA. If their not doing it they make excuses for the predators doing it. Self fulfilling prophecy stuff--if I believe I am and being told I'm a liar, cheat and theif then I become it. If I believe I'm a self centered asshole, I become it...Just ask my sons dad. He's been doing it for yrs even OUT OF AA, lol

AA is full of 1st, 2nd and 3rd sex offenders and at the same time recruits from youth tx centers. The truth is being exposed now!!! Thank u Lord Jesus.

AA knows about these crimes and does nothing about it. There is a 7 state sex ring that these loving AA members frequent and get their new victim. It's being exposed right as we speak.

Morality is doing what's right no matter what ur told, religion is doing what ur told no matter what's right!! And AA is a religion, aa has been declared one in 25 states!!

[Altered Moment]

@sunshine1995 I think you have a big misconception of what AA is all about. AA does not want to be considered anything by anyone. They do not recruit as an organization. They may bring meetings to a youth camp or jail but that is to share their experience and what worked for them. Someone may decide that they want to try it.

If 25 states have really called it a religious organization I will bet you anything it is because AA takes in money to pay rent, electric, and buy literature. I am quite sure they have never applied for non profit status and I am sure the IRS is trying to figure out what box to put them in. AA seeks to not be involved in politics or outside affairs. The courts have forced the issue of mandatory meetings and not much AA can do about it. It is very loosely organized.

If sex offenders are preying on AA as a feeding ground that is horrible and makes me very angry. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Anyone can come in and say that or not even say that and they are not going to get kicked out. They welcome anyone who walks it. They are not the police. I am sure if more experienced members are told something is going on they would call the police. Sex offenders also become teacher just for the reason of being around kids. That is not the fault of the teaching profession even though it may reflect badly on it. People become priest for the same reason. The Catholic church was in a position to do something about it, they can fire or excommunicate priest, but they chose to cover it up. AA cannot fire people or kick them out. They are not organized that way. They can call the police if they suspect crime.

There are some unwritten rules within AA as part of the culture. Men work with men and women work with women. That one is a strong one. You do not ask a girl out until she has a year sober. Experienced men will tell this to newer men who are hitting on a newcomer. No one should even get into a relationship until they have a year sober. My sponsors and experienced men told me that if I asked a girl out to have coffee and dinner with her for six months before even trying to have sex. The women stick together like glue and watch out for each other. There are unwritten rules and guidelines that are a part of the culture. Not everyone is going to follow them. There is no enforcement police. If sex offenders are using AA and committing crimes than members should call the police and I am sure they do.

AA is a philosophy not a religion. Its roots are christian and some of those traditions like the lords prayer have carried through. But it is totally up to the member to decide what spiritual believes they adopt. They can be atheist and use the group as their higher power for instance. The philosophy as it is written is the same in all groups but the groups themselves are going to vary widely based on local culture.

AA seeks to be anonymous and it primary purpose is to help alcoholics, period. It has a holistic approach to doing this based on personal and spiritual growth. That's how you stay sober. If you son's father is not a good father it has nothing to do with AA. It means he didn't adopt the lessons of AA. AA would teach him it is his responsibility to be financially and emotionally available to his son. If he chooses not to do that it is on him not AA.

Morality is something you are taught from somewhere. Some people are not taught it at all. AA is based on a common set of morals or spiritual principles. I think any segment of society or religion would agree with them. They are common. Honesty, trust, responsibility and the like. Anyone is free to join and agree with them or not.

It is not fair to judge AA and its philosophy on the behaviour of some of its members. There are some very sick people who have much bigger problems than alcoholism that come to AA. We are always encouraged to get whatever outside help we need be it physical or mental. The philosophy is to be good to yourself and take care of yourself and love yourself and others. It is not AA's job to cure mental illness although people with mental illness can be greatly helped in AA. AA's job is to help people get clean and sober and stay that way. It has been hugely successful for decades.

If you hate it that is fine. But to fear monger and make broad statements without knowledge (it would seem) disparaging AA is not fair. If it doesn't work for you that is fine. It works for me. I am not brain washed in the slightest. I freely chose to adopt the philosophy. My friend I mentioned earlier and is struggling has learned about AA to a degree and is probably going to choose not to adopt it and find another way.

AA is one way. Can't we talk about other ways without trashing AA?

[roads]

Originally Posted by sunshine1995

AA is full of 1st, 2nd and 3rd sex offenders and at the same time recruits from youth tx centers. The truth is being exposed now!!! Thank u Lord Jesus.

AA knows about these crimes and does nothing about it. There is a 7 state sex ring that these loving AA members frequent and get their new victim. It's being exposed right as we speak.

Morality is doing what's right no matter what ur told, religion is doing what ur told no matter what's right!! And AA is a religion, aa has been declared one in 25 states!!

Could you please provided references for

• AA is full of 1st, 2nd and 3rd sex offenders and at the same time recruits from youth tx centers. The truth is being exposed now!!!
• There is a 7 state sex ring that these loving AA members frequent and get their new victim. It's being exposed right as we speak.
• AA is a religion, aa has been declared one in 25 states!!

Thanks so much in advance. I'm a 33-yr member & even on the Internet I've been unable to find any of your facts ...

Roads