"the thoughts"

maybe kinda.... or extremelly? triggering....

I didn't even know if to start this thread, but it has been on my mind for some time............







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I am kinda morbid person, I think. I am extremelly obsessed with my mortality and mortality of those I care for. The thing is while I care muchly for my loved ones... I don't seem to care for myself on the same level. I don't care if I am gonna live. I don't want to die, at least not at this moment and life is good, I am even making plans for the future.... but at the same time... I don't care. If i am gone tomorrow, it is a big "so what" to me. I only worry how my friends and family would react.

Had plans in past for "bailing out gracefully". Not gonna go much further... but I never made the step... I always had one more thing to attend, one more thing I wanted to live to.... But what if this self-preservation is not infinite? What if my self-destructive mechanism (which I believe all humans have) was activated and I am a ticking bomb now?
Again, I am safe right now. I am working on my diploma thesis and thinking long term....

I have the thoughs... like always. I may be perfectly happy, but i still stand on a bridge and think "what if I just leaped?". It comes out of nowhere... and it leaves just as quickly as it came.... I wake up and everything is wrong, world is broken, life has not sense.... Next day everything is fine... with just mild feeling of... something off. I guess it takes time to recover?

It doesn't always have a reason... after all self-destruction is irrational.


Just wondering how you are dealing with this kind of irrationality... and your views.

sorry for the morbid nature of this thread.

Yes I deal with those thoughts too. They are very irrational. My theory is I have "been there done that". I have made attempts in my life. I kinda feel like I'm done going that route. When the thoughts like that come I know they will go away and I'll go back to that "off" feeling, but I'll be ok. Weird but I think about my animals dying a lot, not people. You already know its not rational and you have hope for a future, that's really good. Hope this passes soon. take care.

I have those impulsive thoughts too. I also have random images pop into my head of violent scenes. My pdoc said these are not that uncommon for bipolars to experience. They don't know what does it for sure, but he thinks it's related to a brief "misfire" in the brain.

I think of this stuff as well. I always said when I was young that I wanted to live to 70 and then I wanted to kill myself or die..whatever. I did not like the aging body and loss that people experience when they are old.

I am 67 now and both my parents died at 70 and 71. Note that their deaths had nothing to do with the #70 as I thought of this long before they died.

I know its my depression talking. I feel even with good meds that I have a low-grade depression sort of like a fever..Not really all there but still rearing its ugly head.

I don't like this aging garbage. I have been alone for seven years and thats way too long. I have a lot of arthritis and have a lot of pain and difficulty. Yes I definately think of leaving early but will I?..................... Probably not because I am a survivor, and I really basically like life in general. Life though is, and can be, super hard. I keep going though!

Me too I have these thoughts, Venus. I know exactly what you mean when you say you are so-what-ish about your own demise. I feel now basically that my life is over (I'm 38) and all the good stuff has already happened, and it's like I'm holding my breath and going on automatic till the end. But it's not at all a negative thing (usually). I'm also perfectly safe right now - it's not about that - I feel like the above all the time. Or am I just depressed all the time? I don't know. Sometimes I think I accept so much as 'normal' because I don't know any better.

Hmmmmmmmm. Very, VERY interesting thread! A strange mixture of what I consider pathology and straight thinking. I'm way up there myself, so I guess it's pretty normal for me to think seriously about the end. By no means in a pathological way (I think). It's nice to be able to understand and accept one's mortality as something as normal as waking up or going to sleep. Not scary. Just natural. The end of the game of musical chairs. The music stops. The End. I don't sit around thinking about it every day.

I think that all of us, when contemplating our own mortality, would do well to work at that kind of mindset, accepting, not frightened, relaxed, not tensely anxious. Such a mindset can be the basis for the most intense enjoyment of all that life still has to offer even to us seniors. It doesn't have to be a preoccupation, by any means. One shouldn't brood about it.

Brooding. That's moving off into the pathological, I think. BeeBizzy says she feels her life is over at 38. I don't think anyone ought to be even considering their own mortality at 38. Sixty, maybe. Sixty-five, sure. 38? No way! 38 is ridiculously young, with an enchantingly long future ahead! And (to me, at least) I think several of Venus' ideas regarding the end of life are distinctly morbid for her age. Though I have to admit that the cultures of the area of the world Venus comes from seem traditionally rather more morbid than many other places. There was a reason Kafka was born and raised in Prague! Take good care, all!

No worries on the morbidity, Venus. (If I wrote what is truly in my head on this subject, suffice to say that it would need to be removed.) I think the fleeting "what ifs" are pretty normal, but...
yeah, this. So my perspective may be off...

In terms of dealing with it, I really don't. It is always there. Greater or lesser percentage of time, but never gone. Never will be. I believe it is just part of my nature.

Whether that is twisted or not is fair game for debate...
The degree undoubtedly falls into the pathological, but again, I think it is just part of my nature, and it doesn't bother me in the least. Which is probably pathological in itself...

( Beebizzy! Missbelle, you are a survivor!)

I fully agree with you, Ygrec23, about accepting our mortality and how serene and even stimulating this can be. But I would like to put forward a distinction between accepting mortality, and accepting the time between now and then (if that distinction is valid). I am not, for example, brooding on my mortality or my demise - not at all. I am brooding on the years between now and then not seeming to me to hold much promise as compared to the years behind me. And 'brooding' is even a strong word, it's just something that seems like a fact to me now, ingrained, I don't much dwell on it like one doesn't dwell on the sky being blue (if we're lucky ).

Don't get me wrong - I don't dispute that any of the above is less pathological I would agree that it's not ideal that I have written off my remaining years and just feel like I have to 'get through it' till I'm done. But I don't feel like my mortality is imminent, if you see what I mean, I do acknowledge there is plenty of time left.

I don't know if I'm making any sense - put it down to me being from the same part of the world as Venus (close enough...)

Innerzone! ^ this - exactly

And I am more and more realising that my expectations for myself are extremely low. And how, indeed, what I consider 'normal' is maybe not something I should be accepting. I sometimes realise when Ts or pdocs point it out, but still.

Just to take one example, I have a friend who gets 'depressed' (ahem) and makes a lot of noise about the fact that she doesn't have a bf and her friends don't care about her enough. She feels entitled to caring friends and a bf, and the lack of them makes her feel bad. I don't even feel entitled to things in the first place.

BB

Dear Beebizzy,

Whatever you may read here or elsewhere to the contrary, human life is an amazing, mindboggling gift. We're all made up of the same stellar detritus that forms all the rest of the dead universe: stars, planets, asteroids, interstellar clouds and junk. But us! Us! We get to feel and think and wonder too!!! To ponder, explore, reason, theorize, experience! To have another more than forty years ahead of you as you do indeed have and to look on it as negatively as you do, yes, that's what I call pathology. It may not be intense pathology. It may not be as bad as the situations of the large majority of PC members.

But your future is, to me, very much like the absolutely ultimate Christmas morning when you're five years old and have happy, prosperous and loving parents. Ridiculously Pollyana-ish? Entirely unrealistic? Not grown-up? Silly? I don't think so. And I surely haven't spent my life feeling this way. There's truth in what I say. Worthy of exploration on your part. What does this guy mean? Why is this old man pushing existential ecstasy on me here on PC? Because looking at your future as gray is tearing up the winning lottery ticket. Using the deed to your house to light a fire in the fireplace. Selling your brand new Ferrari for five dollars.

I haven't the slightest doubt that your views and feelings are in every possible way as sincere and well thought-out as mine or anyone else's. No. But you do need to know, and should try to accept, that there really are other possible ways of looking at your future. You may not choose to accept them right now. Fine. Things may continue to appear to you as gray as they apparently do. But there's really no telling what can happen tomorrow or the day after. You may be walking down the street next week, turn a corner, and be overcome by the overwhelmingly wondrous possibilities in almost all human life, including yours.

Take very good care of yourself! Ygrec

Thank you Ygrec23...

I've always assumed I'd be more or less in charge of ending my life, mainly I guess because I knew I didn't want to die in a hospital. I saw relatives in hospitals & worked as a Candy Striper & a hospital death seemed mean & heartless.
If a friendly vet could take care of me as vets care for my terminal pets, I'd consider that. But I may be done before I'm terminal. Why continue to use up resources if I'm through with life? Why shouldn't I be the one to decide?
My critters are always provided for in my latest will.
I don't find final exit arrangement depressing. Actually, when I do decide I'm done, I will probably be mentally terminal. My bipolar state may become no longer treatable to my satisfaction. Even physically, all these meds I take for cholesterol etc exact a price. Someday it may no longer be worth it.
I'll be the one to judge that. It could come any time.
And so,
"That's all, folks!"
My choice. Who else's?

I have thoughts like those too. I never was interested in living much past 30 years old, and really never thought that I would. It was around the time I was 30 or a little past, that I got so miserable and was intensely suicidal several times, with increasing frequency over a few years. I got close a few times, but never actually attempted anything that could have been fatal. There was once that I was a puddle on the floor for pretty much a whole day, and all I was thinking about was getting something from the cupboard, just a couple of feet away from me, and taking action (but didn't have the energy to get up off the floor). I visualized it, and it felt so real that I was staring death in the face and wasn't scared at all. I kept on going, and visualized my children finding me and not knowing what to do or having anyone to help them figure out what to do. And I knew that I didn't want to put them through that.

There was always something that I couldn't quite work out - how to do it without hurting someone who didn't deserve it in the process - how to make it look accidental and be convincing, etc. I still have those thoughts, and I don't know if they will ever be gone. That one time it was so real that part of me was convinced that I really did it and was really dead. I'm still not afraid of death, but I'm not going to do anything to make it happen.

Interestingly, when I started to have all those thoughts and to buy into them to that extent was when I started to be able to see how miserable I was, and when I started to make changes like going back to school and back to work, that led to changing my life and getting in control. Maybe it's pathological, but maybe there is also something healthy behind it. Maybe those thoughts can carry seeds of change.

I have thoughts like these as well...Especially those sudden thoughts of 'taking the leap' or other images that sometimes are so powerful I may have doubts whether I'm actually in the process of acting them out or not. But they're always just in my head (thankfully) and I'm actively trying to replace them any time they pop up, or make sure that someone watches me..!
About morbidity generally...That's a different thing. I have wished I could just die (without being suicidal). I have also believed I'd never be ready for death and therefore dreading it. Now...now I am happy in the knowledge that I will definitely die, and even happier about the fact that I can never possibly claim control over the details of that happening. I can never make a conscious, well-thought, or intellectual decision about death (making it happen or even truly wishing it). Once I got clear on that one, I felt more secure about it not happening 'accidentally' either, i.e. due to extensive 'brain misfires', because there would be a part of my brain that wouldn't let me act on that intensified death-drive. In a way, I'm rewiring my brain (or trying to!) in how to respond to its own disordered signals as it were.

I hope this makes some sense!

Hugs to all

Wow Venus... Are you reading my mind? I hope the thoughts are not too distressing... XOXO

Thanks for replies, everybody. Very interesting and stimulating...


That is interesting... still I wonder what causes these "misfires" besides our chemistry (because after all... all thoughts and feelings are in brain chemistry, but that is not all they are).




I think my baseline is bit lower than most people's. I am naturally depressed... but pretty much most my life, the mania's came later on. Around teens, perphaps? Started get intense by late teens, early 20s. I am not medicated... so... I can recognize real irrational thoughts... but the simply dark ones? Maybe that is just who am I.

I think we like the illusion of having control of how we go... we are aware of our mortality and we know we cannot do anything about that... so we at least want to go on our own terms. But the self-preservation instinct is superstrong for humans - even if we are quite self-destructive compared to animals.


I have a theory that you cannot fully recover from a depressive episode. It is a mild form of PTSD. It changes the way you think, stays with you... you cannot go back to being the person you were before (maybe it is not necessarily bad thing).
So it is hard to get over...



Yeah, we are bit more morbid here in Europe. And as much as Prague has its dark side (after all it was Prague who made Kafka... if you read through his works, many of them are about Prague), it is nothing compared to Russia or the Balkans. Of course, guess what my favorite places are? I guess it comes to the "we can do all these things to ourselves... so why you think you can hurt us or break us?" thinking.


that is great to be able to do it. I think it is possible. I am trying to strenghten my self-preservance. But I guess it is not possible to change altogether. Not sure if I even would want to... I mean, with my past... it is hard to go back.


I guess maybe our minds (as in human minds) are somehow interconnected...
Distressing... a bit, but I am used to it in a way. It is who I am.