I know that there are some of us that can exist just fine without meds, and I think that is awesome.

but then there are some, like me, that really need them and I don't understand the resistance to meds for those that really need them. For those that can't get by without. they do provide relief. I mean... what would you tell me if I refused to take them for this reason or that reason, and then I said I just can't do this and get by. Wouldn't people tell me that I am not doing everything that I can? I just don't get it.

[faerie_moon_x]

This is a complicated question and I think everyone will give you a different answer.

I don't exaclty resist meds. I just forget about them constantly. I get paranoid about them, not for totally unrealistic reasons. I have a long history of bad reactions to meds of all types. I'm super sensitive to chemicals. Also, without health insurance, I think if I start taking my meds and I can't get in to get my lithium tested, then I could kill my kidney on accident. I forget to make my appointment for that, too.... I'm an extremely forgetful person.

I hear ya, and that's a completely valid situation. I'm more coming from the position that this is a serious thing, and that I don't understand why people that really need it don't do everything they can to help themselves.

[Anika.]

Originally Posted by landskaperdan

what would you tell me if I refused to take them for this reason or that reason, and then I said I just can't do this and get by. Wouldn't people tell me that I am not doing everything that I can? I just don't get it.

No I don't think so, and I have not seen any of us who lean to the no meds side advice people to just go off them casually or without caution or serious consideration. That said there is always more we can do, it doesnt have limits except the ones we set. .

In my opinion most of the time the meds do not seem very effective and have not been proven to be either. Always see people chasing relief from symptoms in an endless constant circle and I cannot say that is effective. I take meds seriously as well but from a different standpoint and that is ok..no?

But I have never seen anyone here tell people who are in a bad place to still avoid meds and just do more. Even if the person themselves is anti med. I know people have prompted me to consider meds even after I state that is not an option. So I am not seeing what you are saying. I also don't want give advice and have to bend what I think and believe just to fit in here, and do not feel comfortable doing so if I don't think it's such a good choice.

I honestly do think the other things we can do for ourselves are more effective and reliable than medications.

I am trying to understand what you are asking Dan, but the first post sounds like a much different question than the second. But maybe they don't really need it, maybe they really need a lot of other things in their life and maybe that is why they don't want to take the meds on. I suspect they have valid reasons for that choice. Because meds are serious and they do come at a price which is quite hefty.

Whatever their reason is for not wanting to give brain and body dangerous chemicals because honestly the meds are dangerous and that has been proven then it is valid to them. Just as someone chooses medication feels their reasons are valid for themselves.

[Confusedinomicon]

Mess don't always give relief. Sometimes you get side effects from meds so you have to take more mess to counteract them.

[cocoabeans]

I may be one of those people who should be on medication but is not. Perhaps a day will come where I can't get by but, all things must end no?

I resist medication because side effects, doctors appointments, trips to the pharmacy, and most importantly the actual effects of medication (being stable, yes) are not well tolerated by me.

I'm depressed lately, and yes I'm suffering. All I manage to do is go to work and come home. I can post here from bed. I watch a lot of tv. Try to sleep and gather my energy to fake it through another 8 hours the next day. I think terrible things but, part of me needs this.

It was a weird feeling I'd get on medication when I knew I should be depressed not just sad. Depression is awful. Depression is sometimes worse but, it doesn't last forever like that flatten stable medicated mood where nothing feels like it means anything.

Being medicated, long term, to me is like eating spaghetti with ketchup.

If I had a doctor that would simply treat the episodes as I got sick of them instead of ironing me out, we could talk.

Oh, and that 40 hours of faking it? Well, I need to work to take care of my basic needs, shelter, food, clothing. Not working would make my situation worse. Playing around with my brain might mean losing my job or setting my career back and that's the only damn thing I've got going on right now. I mean really, do you think anyone would hire me like this? Then what? Pennies on disability benefits and stigma when I return. You know pennies are not even accepted money here in Canada anymore.

Originally Posted by landskaperdan

I know that there are some of us that can exist just fine without meds, and I think that is awesome.

but then there are some, like me, that really need them and I don't understand the resistance to meds for those that really need them. For those that can't get by without. they do provide relief. I mean... what would you tell me if I refused to take them for this reason or that reason, and then I said I just can't do this and get by. Wouldn't people tell me that I am not doing everything that I can? I just don't get it.

For me it's many reasons.

One-the side effects can suck.

Two-embarrassing

I still am coming to terms with it. But like My sister's tell me, one in particular has to take 3 different meds for high blood pressure and 2 (i think)for thyroid. She tells me all the time "what's the difference?" Well it's my brain that's not functioning. Idk, I was shamed about them in a organization I was in, in the past. I think that has a lot to do with it.

[BipolaRNurse]

I do understand the resistance to meds. I used to hate having to take pills to be "normal", and I often did the passive/aggressive thing with them ('forget' to take them, or fail to renew my prescription, or not have enough money to get them), or flat-out dig my heels in and refuse to take them.

Not this time, however. If I've learned anything over the year since I was diagnosed with BP, it's that I desperately need medication if I'm to function at all. I get discouraged from time to time, because there are times when I wonder if I'll EVER stop having mood episodes every couple of months or so. But when I look back over the past year, I realize that I've come a long way during the process, and if I'd kept going the way I was, my illness would've just kept getting worse.......I was headed for hospitalization at the time I received the dx.

[TheDragon]

Originally Posted by landskaperdan

I know that there are some of us that can exist just fine without meds, and I think that is awesome.

but then there are some, like me, that really need them and I don't understand the resistance to meds for those that really need them. For those that can't get by without. they do provide relief. I mean... what would you tell me if I refused to take them for this reason or that reason, and then I said I just can't do this and get by. Wouldn't people tell me that I am not doing everything that I can? I just don't get it.

Need is rather subjective, don't you think? If we want to be extremely literal, one doesn't need much other than food energy, water, and oxygen. I wonder if people can ever truly say that they "need" meds. You may functional differently without them, but in this case, you will not suddenly drop down dead without them.

Aside from the debate of how much meds actually help, I personally don't believe I need anything aside from myself. I was told by professionals in the hospital that I would never function properly, and they attempted to prescribe me a lot of meds. Would they have provided some relief? Quite possibly. Did I need them? I don't think so.

If you stopped taking meds, then said that you can't get by, I'd tell you to learn how to get by, and learn how to live life, because can and can't is purely limited by your own conviction.

Not you in particular, but on a broader level, I think people who do feel an actual need for meds are actually limiting themselves in doing everything possible to be better.

[hamster-bamster]

I think you need another title for the discussion. The term "resistance to meds/drugs/medication/treatment" already has a meaning, and it is a different meaning. It means the body/mind's lack of positive reaction to medications/treatment/drugs etc. You can have a treatment-resistant depression if whatever you try, fails. It has nothing to do with the attitude towards treatment.

[newtus]

im supposed to be on meds. i SHOULD i mean.

i have schizophrenia
ive gotten picked up by the police a lot for being delusional/hallucinating. been in hospital about a dozen times. and prob get offers to goto the hospital on average 1-2 times a week from various professionals but usually family.

i am told that i just cannot function without them. i dont disagree i know this myself. i mean i know i cant function daily.

thing is - i used to be on medications. and am prescribed 2 big ones right now. one being Haldol. im always put on heavy heavy doses and lots of diff ones. at one time i was on 6 meds last year. but about 2 years ago i gained a lot of weight. 80+ pounds. i started to show signs of diabetes. i started to pay real attention to my physical health and stopped meds cold turkey. i had to. if i didnt stop them immediately i wouldve gone on to have diabetes and THAT i cant change. not that i know of anyway. that was when i really started looking at what these medications do. still have secondary physical problems from the weight gain like with my bones but its not serious. thankfully. if i have mental problems and im trying to fix them WHY do i have to add on serious physical problems just to have mental relief? some people say its a small price to pay. but NOT for me. not at all. thats ...a HUGE price to pay.

thats my main issue.
that and my paranoia of those meds and this WHOLE american mental health system.
those meds ARE poison. think about it.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by newtus

if i have mental problems and im trying to fix them WHY do i have to add on serious physical problems just to have mental relief? some people say its a small price to pay. but NOT for me. not at all. thats ...a HUGE price to pay.

.

It definitely is a huge price to pay.

[venusss]

I just don't think they would help and not gonna risk my health with side effects for minor relief.

I mean, meds are not gonna revive my father and grandparents. Meds are not gonna land me job or make me self-confident... and I doubt they'd help through interviews even.
And for what I consider spiritual/existential funk... I don't think mind altering substances would help much either.

It's all uppers and downers and hard to find the right balance... I haven't seen it work too much. And in those who claim meds "keep them alive"... I often see many problems with attitude to self and others... rather then mysterious "chemical imbalance".

I do suffer at times, I wanna die... but I don't think meds are answer. I don't believe they would help me, in my particular situation at least. I mean, a dear friend of mine told me I am somewhat avoiding dealing with my **** as it is... so I think to add something that would assist me in my avoiding would help.

[~Christina]

I fling my 2 cents in here..

I thing "most" people are in a crisis of some sort when they wind up on meds.
I personally went on the AP roller coaster , tried loads of this and that and decided " ENOUGH" I was on 12+ medications a day ! I am down to 2 meds at this point.

I have learned tons of coping skills and read study after study about the effects of these medication "can" cause.

"My" goal is to be med free .. that is just MY goal.

Some people do need to stay on there meds that doesnt make them any different than those that choose to live med free.

If you need meds take them. Everyone is unique , I might go med free and fall right on my face LOL .. But it is what I want to try.

[sunblossom]

Meds require one to rely on a system of care that is broken and otherwise dangerous to one's mental health. That is my experience and that is why I jumped off the med train after a few unsuccessful crazy making rides.

Add to that... the prohibitive cost of meds, talk therapy, etc. The constant turnover of doctors. The lack of skills, knowledge and training re: mental illness among GP's. The long wait times for one-time-only appointments with pdocs whose sole job is to articulate a subjective diagnosis and write scripts.

Add to that.... the side effects; the lack of definitive evidence of effectiveness and or risks over time; the lack of definitive means of definitive diagnosis. The risk of mis-use and abuse.

Add to that.... the hassle, the manipulation, the power plays, the run-arounds, the mis-matches, the dangers.... etc etc etc.

There are lots of reasons people who others judge should 'take the meds' for this or that good reason, don't take the meds for this or that other good reason.

Meds are not a panacea and with or without meds the key to success still boils down to quality of sleep, diet and exercise. Improving the quality of those 3 fundamentals is key however that can be achieved. The more severely one has fallen into mental illness the more challenging the work of stabilizing the 3 fundamentals of good health. It’s a catch 22 with lots of side notes but at the end of the day the solutions are still that simple.

Meds can aid us and they can hurt us but they cannot at this point in time cure what ails us. Only changes in thoughts and behaviour can bring us close to what a cure would look or feel like. For some it will require medication to make those changes happen. For others those fundamental changes can happen without the aid of prescription medication.

The nature of mental illness makes it impossible to suggest that what is good for one will automatically be good for another. If only life were that simple.

I opt to go the journey without meds. Good, bad or indifferent. Wise, ignorant or self-injurious. I really can't manage the ins and outs of med treatment. It just doesn't work for me on so many levels.

[Trippin2.0]

I will only ever agree to the statement "need psych meds" when someone is dxd, then with the help of professionals,tries every and all avenues toward wellness, and fails miserably at each turn BEFORE going on meds.

Most assume people with MI "need" meds because pills are shoved down your throat before you even process what the pdoc just said.

You already find yourself in the pdocs office because you're so distressed and seek answers, relief. Then everything explodes when you hear how your brain is broken and that you'll never be normal. You possibly even sit through a talk about stats and kindling theory and all the while inside you're screaming!

Screaming because you're scared and relieved,and among all this pdoc talk you hear meds and relief and how you will become appropiate and functional, and that's all you ever wanted. That's exactly why you're there, isn't it?... You have met your mental saviour, thank you God/Universe!

So even if you doooo go and research your new RX, emotionally its a done deal! That dude just gave you your happy ending! Or so you think....

Except its just the begiinning of a whole new book nevermind chapter!


So no. I dont recognize anybody that "needs" meds.

#end emotionally-charged logically well thought-out rant!

[Victoria'smom]

I was really resistant to taking meds even with starting in my new center.

My previous pdoc did not work with me, constantly threaten hospitalization and cycled me through ever MS except lithium and lamictal. She always disregarded my wishes and the meds made everything dangerously worse. I left as Mood Disorder-NOS, ED-NOS, feeling like she had no idea what was wrong with me and there was no hope.

I went to my current center specifically asking for no meds. Intake is required to set up appointments with a pdoc and T. So I went in knowing I would ask for the only meds that seemed to help. I walked in and was told "No, he refuses to do that" right away. He gave me med options I said No. We sat there talking about random none MH things. I walked out completely trusting him with a prescription of lamictal.

Things that make me non-compliant

1. Trust
2. Mixed states or mania
3. paranoia
4. Meds requiring more than 1x a day
5. Meds that are not weight neutral
6. ADs make me mixed
7. pill amount
8. perceived or actual side effects
9. time of day needed
10. refusal to eat or drink anything
11. stability has made things worse in it's own way
12. feeling like a worse parent stable
13. not understand small mood changes
14. cost of meds
15. feeling better off w/o meds

[bunnifoo]

I take my meds because my life was a lot crappier before I was diagnosed and got on medication.

Of course my old pdoc was trying to get me off all meds and I was on 200 mg of Seroquel and barely managing to get by. My new pdoc wants me to have the life I want. And it means changing meds.

I don't think I could go off medication and be happy. But then I've never the kind of mania that people say they miss and I'm more prone to depressions so being on meds means I actually have energy to do things and don't think about killing myself constantly. I don't feel like the meds dull my senses , it's the opposite for me.

I'm fat because of the medication, it's true but I was okay with my body until I hit a size 20. I don't think I could handle going up more, so my pdoc is working with me. But I'm also finally realizing that it might help if I exercise and eat right.

Also based on my own personal history and how often I thought about killing myself growing up I'm pretty sure that if I was off meds I'd be suicidal and eventually I'd act on it. Even though I know what that would do to my family. And I don't want to go back to thinking about killing myself all the time and I don't want act on it.

[BlackPup]

I take meds cos they seem to work for me but i was very resistant and went off my meds alot before we found the combo that I'm on now.

Mainly because:
i still felt crappy
i had side effects
cost of meds
bad memory
feeling hypomanic and thinking i was better

now i want to go off meds mainly because of cost factors, but because of the risk of relapse i'll put it off for a while.

[Anneinside]

Originally Posted by TheDragon

I wonder if people can ever truly say that they "need" meds. You may functional differently without them, but in this case, you will not suddenly drop down dead without them.

I am going to disagree with you... I will die without them because I become suicidal. I need my meds in order to stay alive.

[BlueInanna]

Too much judgment, support one another! We're all individuals with this bp dx no one even discovered what it actually is yet. Lets all be friends and kind. If our friend feels they need the meds or don't need the meds, let them have their path to find their own truth. I was so scared of meds at first, then I tried some that didn't help, then I tried some that pulled me out of hell, then after some time I felt ready to stop and am trying some different things now. Looking back at my path and how much change and growth, anything is possible, I may choose meds again or I may not. This is my path and journey, we all have our own. I support each of you in your choice of meds or no meds, it is your personal decision and experience. Do whatever seems to help you and more power to you, the bp path is not an easy one.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by Anneinside

I am going to disagree with you... I will die without them because I become suicidal. I need my meds in order to stay alive.

I am going to disagree with you in a way.

I think if I had plenty pills around, I would just one day take them all. It's kinda hard to overdose on supplements (believe me, I tried...) and the other ways of ending yourself are somewhat more brutal and are likely to spark up your self-preservation so one doesn't go through. I think OD is one of the most common ways to go out...

If the meds are the only thing that separates life and death matters for you... it's a bad place to be, bad way of thinking and I cannot see it work for you on long term.
Also... I like to say there's a difference between not killing yourself and living.

I will only ever agree to the statement "need psych meds" when someone is dxd, then with the help of professionals,tries every and all avenues toward wellness, and fails miserably at each turn BEFORE going on meds.

I do find it bit judgemental when people say that if you don't take meds, you don't wanna really get better because you didn't try "everything".
Look folks, everything includes going to India and meditation hardcore for half a year and other things that many never did and never will do. So I will not judge you for not going on extreme diet (from western point of view) or to India... but just realize that there are things we will do and things we will not do, for many reasons.

[newtus]

there are so many situations and reasons and outcomes - that it becomes complicated when we feel the need to blanket them all.

most of the good that can come out of this is probably learning to respect the choices of others. you can show people alternative treatments and points of view - and im all for showing everyone that - but if someone had found a way or even learned a way of life that works fairly ok for them in the least its probably unlikely they will deviate. and i think in many cases thats ok. i also think in many cases it something really important needs to personally happen to someone for them to take on something alternatively. doesnt have to be a bad thing necessarily.

Originally Posted by TheDragon

Need is rather subjective, don't you think? If we want to be extremely literal, one doesn't need much other than food energy, water, and oxygen. I wonder if people can ever truly say that they "need" meds. You may functional differently without them, but in this case, you will not suddenly drop down dead without them.

Aside from the debate of how much meds actually help, I personally don't believe I need anything aside from myself. I was told by professionals in the hospital that I would never function properly, and they attempted to prescribe me a lot of meds. Would they have provided some relief? Quite possibly. Did I need them? I don't think so.

If you stopped taking meds, then said that you can't get by, I'd tell you to learn how to get by, and learn how to live life, because can and can't is purely limited by your own conviction.

Not you in particular, but on a broader level, I think people who do feel an actual need for meds are actually limiting themselves in doing everything possible to be better.

Whoa wait a min here. My mother had high blood pressure and diabetes. She was not overweight at all and was quite active. She NEEDED her meds to STAY ALIVE.

Unfortunately she passed away 6 yrs ago and Dragon I'm not gonna say why. I don't need any more stress right now. And arguing with u will create it.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by passionskyy

Whoa wait a min here. My mother had high blood pressure and diabetes. She was not overweight at all and was quite active. She NEEDED her meds to STAY ALIVE.

Unfortunately she passed away 6 yrs ago and Dragon I'm not gonna say why. I don't need any more stress right now. And arguing with u will create it.

I think he was refering to psychmeds... since that is what this thread is about.