16 year old with bipolar

Look rebecca, i'm not trying to start trouble - All i want you to understand is that your daughter is not the sole problem.

It is a notion my parents fail to see, too, and i would hate for your family to end up like mine.

Sadly, disorder breeds disorder. I commend you on being aware enough to at least recognize that it's a problem. My parents "walked on egg shells" around me, threatened to send me to the doctor, but ultimately could not handle thinking that i was anything but perfect. They tried so hard to socialize me, to get me to empathize, ect, and they just did not understand how i really am.. until now.. until it was too late.

So, yes, i am quite delightful aren't i.. but in all seriousness, i am trying to help. Just, keep an open mind. Remember what i said.

You think she could have borderline personality disorder? It was *briefly* mentioned by her therapist. How do they diagnose that though?
I just don't know what to do for the best for her.

I don't know what to do any more. That's why I am asking for help. I had a child. I raised my child. I wondered why she came out of school at the age of 6 crying, every day. They complained about her behavior even in preschool. She was always strong willed, defiant. At an early age she would rage with a temper if I asked her to brush her teeth!! We went for a walk once and I refused to buy her a can of coke at the store, at which she let rip with her temper, and acted as though I was denying her a basic human right. All this time I was thinking 'this isn't 'normal' Her responses to things were always WAY extreme. You have to understand its only VERY recently that we have begun to relaize that she has an underlying mental health issue, and that is what is causing her extreme reactions to things, as well as other behaviors that are causing her issues in her life. I'm on here because I want help and advice. I've felt like a crap parent for years and years. When I had her I wanted her to have everything in life I could give her. What I have is world war 3 in my house almost every day, sometimes from absolutely nothing! You have to understand, I am at my wits end. I'm trying. That's why I am on here and going to a support group. I need advice and opinions. And saying to me 'just have her whatever you said' is just rude and not helpful at all. So I'm willing to listen if you can tell em anything I can do to change my behavior to help her, because as of right now, she's not going to be happy and successful in her life unless I can help her. She's going to lose jobs and friends and I'm going to cry for her. That's what I am trying to avoid!

I think, you should sit down and calmly ask her about herself. Maybe you don't want her to be jobless and friendless, but where is her head at? You can't just change everything without her permission, or you'll exasperate the defiance..

I know, it sounds horrible your situation. I am sorry that this is happening to the both of you. What she needs is understanding. Any attempt to let her do as she pleases, which in fact is ignoring her problems, will make it worse. Any acting defiant Back at her, will make it worse.

Understand her.. not through the forums.. but through her.

Thi sounds good. One question though. You say don't let her do as she pleases, which usually I don't. However, if rules are put in place, she basically acts the victim and screams abuse. I sat her down today and told her, if there's a curfew and you break it, there will be a consequence. When I have laid down rules before, she tells me I've ruined her life and because I'm such a ***** she'll just behave worse than ever. So here's the thing, I struggle to find the 'parenting' happy medium with her, because she sees me acting as her parent, as me being 'defiant.' She seems to have ideas of superiority. She's never liked having adults tell her what to do and has always acted as if she is the adult and her parents have NO right whatsoever to question her on anything from school work to the state of her room. I just have tried all different styles of parenting, and don't seem to get any of them right.
Thanks!

Everyone is born a narcissist - she should grow out of it. That is, if all goes well.

So what if she cries bloody murder and calls you a *****? Don't react to it.. she's a kid.. Just tell her that the rules are set because you worry about her at night time and now-a-days being alone at night is not the best idea.. some sht like that.

Just talk to her and explain stuff. IDK i'd be a horrible parent

Thanks so much. I dunno about you being a horrible parent. Like you said before, there's no instruction manual, so we all just stumble about doing our best. I juts feel like an abject failure, and I hope she doesn't hate me forever.
It's so difficult with a mental illness too because it's all trial and error with the meds, with the parenting. And all that on top of trying to cope and hold down a job so the bills are paid etc...ooh pity party lol...
Anyway, thanks...

I am a parent and It is the most difficult job period
You obviously love her and are doing your best to save her from herself otherwise you wouldn't even care!
They won't diagnose borderline until adult but the positive news is if she deal with any traits she has now she will be far better off
There is no easy answer
But I wish you the best of luck
Nothing is more guilt inducing then parenting

I can't imagine being in your shoes but it sounded to me a lot like a personality thing too, but they can't diagnose a personality issue until the day after a kid turns 18. Which in my opinion is too late. Someone here suggested DBT I think that would be a good way to go. Maybe you can talk to your therapist about ways you can incorporate DBT into your interactions with her. I'm not sure how well it works for an oppositional disorder tho. The individualized plan for behavior and school sounds good too.

I don't know if my daughter had BP in high school( there's a good chance she did) she was using drugs (self medicating?) and voluntarily went to an alternative school for 9th and half of 10th grade were she caught up and graduated with her friends. She loved it because it was easier to concentrate and have an individualized plans for her classes. The school she went to had no talking during class times and everyone worked on different subjects at their own pace. she said the quite no distractions atmosphere helped her a lot the only thing she missed was art classes.

I have a friend who got some positive results with the help of a behavior therapist. Her child was younger but I'm sure they are able to adjust what they recommend to accomodate an age. He was originally diagnosed with ODD and later bipolar. The behavior therapist helped a great deal with the ODD. She said it was mostly teaching HER new techniques and how to implement them which it sounds like you are seeking which I why I'm mentioning it.

NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) has a class (pretty sure) and support groups (positive) for parents of children with mental illness.

I think you are brave to come here and ask questions. I hope you get some of the answers you need so badly.

I agree that the wilderness programs can help. Another friend with a son with a lot of psychiatric/behavioral problems sent his son to one (I can't think of the name, keep getting stuck on Outback SteakHouse which is a sign my meds are kicking in but it was the one that I've heard of the most that is well-known and searching isn't helping me either, sorry) and it was beneficial. His son was about 14 or 15 when he went and he gained self-esteem and some more self-control that he was lacking. I know he was really proud of himself at the completion ceremony. And that has the advantage of you take her there and after that her cooperation is up to others.

I agree also that reading about borderline personality disorder may help you a great deal in how to deal with your daughter. Not that she necessarily has it, but she does have behaviors consistent with it (as many people with bipolar do as well as many who have both or who change diagnoses between the 2) and learning about it might help you cope more.

I think individual therapy for her would be good with the understanding that you will be speaking to the therapist as well although the therapist should respect her confidentiality (and I think has to at age 16 in at least this state). I would see the therapist myself before ever mentioning it to my daughter to see if you think there is a fit and also to be sure that the therapist understands the backstory. If you find someone you think will work well with your daughter give it a try. Maybe outside the context of family therapy she might open up a little and learn a coping skill or two or 10 (the more the better).

I hope that you find the answers you need, be it here or somewhere else. Please feel welcome here though. There are lots of us and one person never speaks for all of us (including me!). I just really want you to know that.

So how are you supposed to raise your kids according to the book? Let them run wild? Or up meds each time they act defiant?

Kids with issues are kids too. They need to be brought up just like anybody else. And kids with ODD need even STRICTER boundaries, not looser.

Honestly, lots of it sounds like rough teenage years and if you will try to slap label on it and excuse everything with the label, you will only damage that girl. She needs love and understanding, but needs boundaries. She needs to know there are consequences to things.

I'm sorry you've gotten some sarcastic/unhelpful replies here. That is not the norm for these forums, and it makes me a little embarrassed. I understand that you are trying to help your daughter and you really need some support. From what you've described it sounds like your daughter's behavior is a long way beyond the "defiant teenager" norm. I'm not sure about the diagnosis of ODD-- sometimes I think it's just a rationalization for why kids act out. But it sounds to me like something else is going on with your daughter besides BP. I can't diagnose but from your description of her behavior I'd ask her professional caregiver whether it's possible she has BPD. I also hope you're able to find a local support group (or therapist) to work with. You're being asked to handle an awful lot. I wish you all the best in getting some effective help and support in dealing with this, and I'm sending you positive energy.

You're experience remind me a lot of dealing with a child that has ODD. Although I think BP probably has its influence too. And then just being a teen. You have your hands full! My son has ADHD and ODD and boy can I relate, though my son is much younger. He used to be really extreme until we found the right med and routine combination. He goes to a behavioral school, and they have REALLY helped.

I wish I could give you some advice, but I'm not sure I have any good advice to give. Is your daughter on any meds? They can help (but the wrong combo can also cause problems). A behavioral or vocational school may help too.

I agree with scatterbrained04, maybe ADHD plus ODD? Maybe there is bipolar, but I am reading BPD, which can't be diagnosed until after 18, but many children who have bipolar have ADHD too (1/2 in boys and 1/4 in girls). Hope you are okay .

Social anxiety disorder, GAD, OCD, and panic attacks

Lexapro, 10 mg

First of all, thank you for being so kind. I do see some people have reacted kind of as if I just have a regular teenager and it's me who is crappy, but I am here out of desperation. I have tried to be a good parent for years and years, and constantly asked myself if her behavior was in the 'regular' range, and as the years have passed I've realized more and more, no this isn't in any way 'normal' and as much as my life is hard, I am not only worried about me, I'm worried because my daughter thinks her life is crap and I'm trying to help her. It's just that its hard to record everything on an online forum. There's SO much I could write, but I seriously could write a novel. All I tried to do was provide some examples and the poignant aspects of what I see as personality traits of hers that are extreme. I do appreciate those of you who have realized this, and I have found all of your replies more than helpful.
I want to say to you in particular and for the people who have mentions that it sounds a bit like BPD, I am now realizing that his may be the case. Her therapist did mention it once or twice, but since she is 16, no-one is really committing to say that's what it is 100%. After you all mentioned it, I looked it up because unlike bipolar which I had researched, I had no idea what BPD is.
Now that I think that may be it, what can I do to help her? I'll go back and reread because I think a few of you have mentioned a certain type of therapy. I'm going to back to her psych and tell her I am sure she has aspects of if not all aspects of BPD and ask her advice.
As for those going on about her behavior, I have been punishing her before for her actions, or disciplining her, but instead of changing her behavior, she either makes out like she is a victim, as if we are cruel and unnecessary, and it doesn't change her behavior. It's as if when she does things she is in some kind of alternate reality, then after she acts like nothing has happened. I don't think I'm just trying to put a 'label' on my naughty 16 year old, I believe that like is supported by this reply, her behavior is WAY beyond regular teenager defiance. I can't type it all exactly what she is like, but I can assure you, I've spent hours and hours thinking about it and trying things. For heaven sake she has been in therapy for 2 years plus and still behaves the same. It's like no adult can get through to her. You also cannot reach her or make her be rational when she is caught up in things. She seems to love arguing and fighting and has stood in my kitchen goading me and goading me, and she had the determination to go on and on for hours until I finally flipped and she seemed to get a thrill out of it. I've learned now not to respond at all when she is pushing my buttons, but my worry is that she is addicted to causing drama, having a fight. It's worrying.
Anyway, I digress. Many, many thanks for those of you who have taken the time to type me a considered reply, and I really have been given some ideas I never thought of. I just hope I can help my child in time so that she can have the happiest life she can.

Thank you so much. I'll ask her psych about this. Its interesting to me that you also mention BPD. May I ask what things I'm describing that correlate with the BPD? I'm so new to all of this. We knew she had issues of some kind, but we're new to her being actually diagnosed, so as far as I am concerned I'm still investigating things.
Let me mention some other things too that she has and see if it also fits something.
1. She has always had sensory issues, especially to clothing and food. She had to have clothing a certain way. She eats virtually nothing but bland food. Kind of food aversion. She will not eat anything I make at all, nor even try it.
2. Poor at sleeping. She's always been poor at getting to sleep. When not at school and left to her own devices, she will stay up way late and sleep in half the day.
3. Takes the simplest request as WW3. (Clean your room, brush your teeth etc)
There's more, but those are stand outs.
The biggest thing for me is that ever since she was a small child she acts ike she is her parents equals, if not superiors. She does not take well to parental discipline. Now, if I try to explain, I don't mean this in a 'your the parent sort her out' way. She truly believes she is being attacked if asked to do something.
She also does not respond well to a change in plan. Like if we say we might visit a place she wants to go but it doesn't work out, she can lose her temper about it. Likewise if she asks me for coke and I say no. That's enough to start verbal abuse of the nastiest kind.

Tanks in advance.

You think its BPD too?
I've never heard of DBT. I must investigate this.
I'm beginning to think more and more that it def could be BPD.
If it is, what will her life be like? The therapist was talking like if she has BPD it is much worse to manage than having BD...I'm so worried for her.
Is it mainly therapy or mainly drugs that help?
Right now she is on 1 pill lexapro and 5 pills lamictil to treat the symptooms the psych was seing but to me, she's as bad as ever in terms of symptoms and behavior than before she was taking all that.
May I also mention this. Sometimes she just gets upset for no reason and says she just can't take living with us any more, and hse has to go stay the night somewhere else even though NOTHING is happening to her. It's like she FEELS like her life is awful, but it does not reflect the reality of the situation...what is that?

Again, that sounds like a teenage. Eating only certain foods and not eating what parents want and being retarded about clothes... that is pretty much core of many teenage jokes.

Betty McDonalds (and I am pretty sure other writers too) described this in her daughters in her memoir.


Are you sure you just didn't let get over your head? There was a book called Little Tyrant published in Czech. Described kids being particular over things and throwing fits, if it's noth their way. Author thinks it can be "cured" by firm set off loving boundaries. Kids start to dominate when they don't feel safe. Lack of boundaries makes them feel unsafe, because in the back of their minds, it's like you aren't strong enough to take care of them.

The first part sounds like something ADHD like or sensory processing disorder, but for both of those things, you need more things for it to be considered a disorder.

The second part sounds like a normal teen. I stay up really late and sleep in half the day if I could. Most teens are night owls, and it does sound like it's just that. That's also me for you too.

The third part sounds like ODD. Like, if they get really defensive over anything, the. That is ODD. Same with the last thing. Defying is not normalto that extent.

The last part is ADHD. My neighbours that I mentioned before who have ADHD kids said the first symptom for them to know something wasn't right was getting angry at change of plans. I do get angry at change, but that is related to possible autism. My pdoc thinks I have it and wanted to get me tested but my mom didn't want me too. I will be going to though.

Please try to mention ADHD and ODD at your appointment.

I will respond to the BDD part later.

Social anxiety disorder, GAD, OCD, and panic attacks

Lexapro, 10 mg

I agree that it sounds like she has sensory processing issues. Those can accompany a number of disorders including ADHD, autism spectrum (not saying she is autistic) and in my experience as an OT, many of the people I treated with psychiatric illnesses that were severe had some degree of sensory issues. I personally have a lot of them, affecting clothing I wear, noise levels I can tolerate, my ability to relax and sleep because I'm always aware of everything (I sleep with a 22 lb weighted blanket which has brought much relief to all sensory issues for me and I actually spend a lot of my time under it awake or asleep because it is so calming). Sensory issues can increase behaviors if there is something that is becoming so overwhelming to the increased sensory system that it causes the need to get out of that situation no matter what. One of the ways that we tell I'm manic is that my therapist has 2 clocks in his office and when I am manic it annoys me greatly that they tick out of sync. He just re-arranged his office and the clock that has always sat beside the chair I sit in was moved so it will be interesting to see if I still am annoyed by it when it is far away from me). Aside from considering a weighted blanket though I'm not sure now is the time to do much with sensory stuf; I think it is a very secondary issue to everything else. But the weighted blanket might help. I had never in my life slept remotely nomrally until I got mine. I still don't sleep normally but I do sleep better with it and even had one made that is lighter that can go to the hospital or traveling with me because I really need it.

Agree. Even though I've done the same stuff (I'm bipolar). But to be honest, my 18 yo half sister who isn't bipolar has done stuff worst than I did.

Dx: BP2, PTSD, bulimia/anorexia
Seroquel 150mgs
Risperdal 4mg
Trileptal 600mgs
Buspar 45mgs
Ativan 1mg PRN
Vyvance 70mgs PRN

Hi there,
I haven't been clear I don't think. The eating/clothing thing goes way back to early childhood. She's actually better with clothing now as a 16 year old, however her eating is still bad. Sometimes I think I try to explain how she is on here and it gets misinterpreted. I agree that any one of these things either short term/only happened when she turned teenager can be minimized and put down to her 'just being a teenager' but in her case there's so many global issues that have been going on for a long time.
I don't think I did let her get in over my head because I disciplined her. The reason I noticed she was so different was that all my friends I spoke to her about her behavior ( from years ago, not now) all said they found at least one thing that worked, but I tried loads of different techniques and she was SO strong willed, she always just shrugged it off. I was tempted to call Super Nanny so many times.
But now she HAS been seen by a psych and a therapist. The therapist, who has been a social worker and has seen loads told me that my daughter was one of the most strong willed kids she had encountered.
I'm not really writing this to be told it's 'normal.' I already know she has a mental illness of some sort. I'm trying to find my way so that I can get her the right meds, and so I can parent her in the right way.

Thank you, but regardless of whether other kids have done worse than her, she has been diagnosed as having a mental illness. I don't explain well enough on here to do it justice. It's not just rebellion. It's crazy stuff she does then acts like it never even happened. I simply can't do it justice by typing it. If I could I would. I have so much anecdotal evidence from observing her that I know its above and beyond any kind of teenager stuff. She cannot cope with things. She is struggling with life big time. I just think if people keep telling me she's just a normal teenager it's not helping and its making me feel like there's no point me writing on here at all.

What meds is shè tracking? Did you get a school meeting set up that's important to help you parent.

Please don't feel like everyone is ignoring you. I know it can feel that way but I think when these posts get longer not everyone reads from the beginning so they think they are saying something new or reassuring when you've already said that it goes beyond that. Maybe just start each post with questions with a reminder that she has a diagnosis and that you have professionals agreeing this is not just being a teenager?