[rebecca1938]

I am hoping I can post this in here. I had previously posted on this web site about symptoms I was seeing in my 16 year old daughter. She has now been diagnosed with bipolar. I think they were reluctant to diagnose a 16 year old, but it is evident that she is very ill. I need some advice as to how to parent her.
She acts like an adult and acts as if personally attacked if asked to follow the rules. (any rules). My biggest worries are twofold. The first is that she is defiant to the max. The second is that she keeps doing things that are truly worrying, but she is so delusional she thinks she is doing nothing wrong.
An example was Friday night. She was working until 8pm and she had told me on the way to work that she wanted to g out after work to see a movie. When it turned out the movie didn't start until 10, and she is sick with a cold, she was told she could meet her boyfriend at the plaza with store and stay until 10pm. Well, at almost 10 they both informed their parents they weren't coming home. She got 2 friends from work to text both sets of parents and say that they were with them in their house. We knew this wasn't true. The night then escalated out of control. I could go on, but I don't want to turn this into a novel.
Does anyone recognize these symptoms and behaviors in bipolar 16 year olds and if so, how do I keep her on the rails, get her through HS and try to get her to behave within some kind of 'normal' frame.
She is currently on 1 lexapro pill a day, and 5 lamictil pills.
Thanks in advance.
Help needed.

[Standup2me]

I don't think that's a BP thing, I think that it is just a teenager thing

[scatterbrained04]

Originally Posted by Standup2me

I don't think that's a BP thing, I think that it is just a teenager thing

I think I would have to agree.

[Trippin2.0]

I agree too, typical teen behaviour right there. It's so freaking common it should be included in the "How to raise a teenager 101" manual.


Oh wait that's right, kids don't come with instruction manuals. Damn

[rebecca1938]

Thanks for those comments, but this child is WAY more extreme than the regular teenager. I feel that I am not conveying to you just how extreme her behavior is. It's WAY beyond the realm of just staying out later than she is supposed to. Her behavior is destroying my family.
She has bipolar. She has major mood swings. You cannot tell her to do anything and if you do she either verbally abuses me, tries to exit moving vehicles, leaves the home and disappears, threatens to call social services. That would be something, but this is over the most minute requests. School has called us in for meetings because they are worried about her. She does things that are really beyond a joke then next minute acts like nothing happened.
I truly can't do it justice on one forum post the daily behavior we deal with and how we are walking on eggshells all the time as to how she will react next. She has a counselor and a psychiatrist and the counselor is out of ideas as to how to manage her.
I was hoping some parents of bipolar teens like me would be able to offer some constructive advice.
I'm at the point of nearing a breakdown myself at this point if I don't get help. I'm also going to a support group this coming Tuesday, but I thought a post in here might receive some helpful advice.

EDIT- She has previously been diagnosed with ODD. Could it be that she has that AONGSIDE the BP if you guys don't think the oppositional stuff has anything to do with the BP? I did read a book on BP, called 'The Bipolar Child' and it mentioned lots of kids with BP being oppositional, and how you can't parent them normally because the usual discipline tactics as used on a non BP child just make things worse in a kid with BP. Just wanted to add that.

[hahayeahtotallylol]

Originally Posted by rebecca1938

Her behavior is destroying my family.

Originally Posted by rebecca1938

I'm also going to a support group this coming Tuesday, but I thought a post in here might receive some helpful advice.

Are you looking to help her, or yourself?

[rebecca1938]

Originally Posted by hahayeahtotallylol

Are you looking to help her, or yourself?

Both of us!
I am trying to learn how to respond appropriately to her behaviors because I still parent as is she does not have BP/ODD and it doesn't work. Ultimately I think if I have the tools to parent her and help her the knock on effect will be that my life will get easier too. The way she is behaving just now there is NO way she can go to college at 18. She won't cope. I need tools to help her become a funtioning adult. I'm so, so worried about her right now.

[hahayeahtotallylol]

Originally Posted by rebecca1938

how do I keep her on the rails

I guess just tranquilize her, right?

Just kidding..

But what have you done so far to try to bring peace to the house?

[rebecca1938]

Originally Posted by hahayeahtotallylol

I guess just tranquilize her, right?

Just kidding..

But what have you done so far to try to bring peace to the house?

Gosh, I am not sure. Well, 2 years ago we started going to therapy because we knew she needed help but she doesn't listen to any adult advice. We've tried doing 'regular' parenting stuff like telling her in advance what the consequences of her actions will be, but she always acts the victim, and if he behaves badly and we do something in turn like take away her phone, she twists it around as if we are evil and are persecuting her. I have stopped nagging her about stuff I used to Now I pick and choose my battles. She tells me she is unhappy in this house, even though I have ramped my responses to her down. She also goes way off the rails if the answer to anything is no, or even if we compromise and she gets something of what she wants. Nothing I have tried seems to help chage her behavior or make her more stable, and in fact the last few weeks she has been worse than ever. She lies, manipulates, she obsessively texts her boyfriend. (Not like a regular teen) She has always had difficulty making friends and obsesses over one person. She has no girlfriends. Not one.
Sorry, that went off track to your question.
Basically I have tried backing off her, she used to push my buttons until I argued with her and now I don't allow her to reel me in. She has been like this for years too, way, way before she was 16. I look back now and I see things as far back as when she was 6 that weren't 'conventional' behaviors. I now believe she's had childhood BP, unknown to us.
I don't know what else to do. I've taken to treating her almost like a roommate and just leaving her to her devices because I cannot parent her like a normal parent would. I'm really at a complete loss.

[hahayeahtotallylol]

I understand.. my parents did the exact same thing to me.

I guess, just leave her alone, then.

It doesn't look like you want to get involved with her, so, i don't really know what to say

Maybe you could look into a parenting support forum or something. I don't think you'll get the answers you are looking for here.

[hahayeahtotallylol]

And just a side note, my parents gave up, and still do to this day.

I'm 24 now, and it's worse than it's even been.

So, keep that in mind if your relationship with her is important to you.

Follow through with punishment.

Don't be afraid of her.. don't let her take advantage of you. You own the house.

[rebecca1938]

That's not true that I don't want to get involved with her. You're right though, I'm not getitng the help I need here. That's for sure.

* I don't want to give up on her, that's why I am seeking support. I don't know how to have a relationship with her when she has categorically stated she will do what she likes, when she likes. And she does do what she likes, and even though it is my house, it's sometimes not worth the end argument trying to get her to do stuff.
I'll stop writing now. I'll go to a parent support place. I don't think this was the right place. I just thought it was the BP forum and I'd get help.

[MistressStayc]

I agree with following through with consequences. You have to show her that you mean what you say or it is pointless. Consistency is key to modifying behavior. If children dont believe you will stay consistent they will continue to push boundaries. Have you tried positively reinforcing the behaviors you want her to display and I mean heaping it on to start and slowly lessening it over time. If she wants to be able to call the shots and have freedom then show her what she has to do to earn it and reward handsomely when she does.

[raspberrytorte]

That sounds very hard. I'm sorry you're dealing with that. I don't have any advice. Just wanted to let you know that I hope things get better for you and your daughter. Hugs.

[hahayeahtotallylol]

I don't think it sounds hard, to be honest.

She says it's not worth the mere argument to try and lay down rules.

Seems like more of a personal issue. And the fact that she is hard to deal with is magnifying it, sure.

You're looking for a fix for your daughter, but to me it seems like your not even giving it your all. So what do you expect? Honestly, why don't you just tranquilizer her.

[Victoria'smom]

My parents raise 3 BP kids. Your daughter sounds like my sister was. First make sure she's on the 18 credit graduation requirement. If she's constantly in trouble at school have her do flvs on a 5 year plan. See if she can go to a therapeutic day program even if its an adult program. Have her attend trade school as she may not want to go back to school at 18. Is she seeing the school counselor? Does she have an iep? s she in therapy? Are you in therapy? Are your other kids in therapy? If she has an iep she can see the school councillor 2x-3x a week. Plus outside therapy. She could spend the day in credit recovery finishing her required courses without homework.

Your lucky she can hold down a job. Is she taking the meds?

[Pastel Kitten]

I'm 20 years old and I'm not too sure if the way she acts is because of bipolar or because she's just a very defiant teenager. I've been symptomatic since I was 13 but I did not behave in this sort of way. In fact, my parents had a problem with the fact I'd isolate so frequently during my depressive episodes. My brother on the other hand acts very similar to the way you are describing your daughter, and he is not diagnosed with bipolar. He's currently 18 and can barely graduate from high school as well. He is the definition of defiant! Some teenagers end up this way. I'm really sorry that she is giving you so much stress and I hope that you manage to find a way to help her. Are you strict with the rules you place on her? Our father is very passive and did not enforce any of his rules on my brother and I after our mom left, so he learned from an early age that he was able to get away with pretty much whatever he wanted.

[Nammu]

All I can suggest is love. NAMI has groups for people of loved ones who have MI. Google support for parents with mentally ill kids....there's all kinds of help out there. this is an area I have no experience with, best of luck.

[MistressStayc]

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

My parents raise 3 BP kids. Your daughter sounds like my sister was. First make sure she's on the 18 credit graduation requirement. If she's constantly in trouble at school have her do flvs on a 5 year plan. See if she can go to a therapeutic day program even if its an adult program. Have her attend trade school as she may not want to go back to school at 18. Is she seeing the school counselor? Does she have an iep? s she in therapy? Are you in therapy? Are your other kids in therapy? If she has an iep she can see the school councillor 2x-3x a week. Plus outside therapy. She could spend the day in credit recovery finishing her required courses without homework.

Your lucky she can hold down a job. Is she taking the meds?

Extremely good questions and points! She most definitely should have an IEP and supports at school.

[rebecca1938]

Originally Posted by hahayeahtotallylol

I don't think it sounds hard, to be honest.

She says it's not worth the mere argument to try and lay down rules.

Seems like more of a personal issue. And the fact that she is hard to deal with is magnifying it, sure.

You're looking for a fix for your daughter, but to me it seems like your not even giving it your all. So what do you expect? Honestly, why don't you just tranquilizer her.

You're just delightful. Thanks for your helpful advice. You have NO idea what I've been through, or what I've tried.
I wouldn't be on here asking for help if I didn't care about her, or helping her.

[rebecca1938]

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

My parents raise 3 BP kids. Your daughter sounds like my sister was. First make sure she's on the 18 credit graduation requirement. If she's constantly in trouble at school have her do flvs on a 5 year plan. See if she can go to a therapeutic day program even if its an adult program. Have her attend trade school as she may not want to go back to school at 18. Is she seeing the school counselor? Does she have an iep? s she in therapy? Are you in therapy? Are your other kids in therapy? If she has an iep she can see the school councillor 2x-3x a week. Plus outside therapy. She could spend the day in credit recovery finishing her required courses without homework.

Your lucky she can hold down a job. Is she taking the meds?

Thank you SO SO much. This is what I need. Real, constructive advice. We have tried everything, and it didn't help that it was only in the last few weeks we knew what she had. I've spent years doing the wrong thing because I didn't realise she was BP, but now I'm trying to learn as much as I can, so I CAN parent her correctly.
I am going to ask about and look into those things you suggested. I had no idea about an 18 credit graduation requirement. If she did the FLVS route, would she stay at home to do that because I think she needs structure and to be out of the house. I don't want her home alone all day. The counselor called me in because she was never out of her office saying all sorts of things and it raised a red flag. They are on the verge with her because she is so defiant, and she gets herself involved in drama and is in tears almost every day. She doesn't yet have an IEP but I think it may help. OK, so we were all in family. She's an only child and we were going to family therapy but the counselor eventually said there was no pint my daughter going back to her because nothing the counselor said she did. I was like Groundhog Day every session. The counselor said she would continue to see my husband and I to help us know what to do. Should I get my daughter a counselor of her own? The only thing is I was told that my daughter will tell the counselor all her sob stories but a good counselor will see through it. She acts like she is persecuted, but her version of reality is so not accurate.
Anyway, thanks so much. It's advice like this I need. Things I haven't thought of. I appreciate your help!

[Nike007]

Hello. I am a teen your daughters age, and to me, that does sound extreme. I'm always surprised how so many teens are defiant. I have too much anxiety to be defiant. I consider myself very submissive. I am not sure if it would be classified as bipolar, but I'm no professional and if they said she has teen-onset bipolar, that may be a possibility because they must have found she fits the DSM V criteria.

Anyways, I have a few things to tell you. I have mental illness (if you care, see DXs below), and one thing I wish I could have is a parent who cares that I have mental illness and wants to help. My mom is in major denial about it and thinks it's all hormonal, but I have run basically every hormonal test possible with nothing out of the ordinary. They want to check estrogen levels now. And my dad, well, doesn't deny it, but never wants to bring it up and sometimes says I just need it to go away some how. It's just not that easy, but my dad is willing to take me to a therapist or councillor or whatever I need.

Next, I suggest you also get your child to get tested for ADHD. Many children diagnosed with bipolar disorder also have ADHD. This may also be the case since you said she was previously DXed with ODD, and 40-60% of people with ADHD have ODD also. This may explain more issues that are underlying. I suggest you try to look into that and read up on ADHD and bipolar comorbidity. Here is a link I found online, but this site also has a bunch of information for disorders related to ADHD:
https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/adhd-comorbidity/

Last thing, my neighbour's kids (two boys) both have ADHD. One has combined type and the other predominantly inattentive. The one with combined type has ODD also. From stories I hear, you need to work on a reward/punishment based system. With them, I hear that the kid with ODD's parents let him do whatever he wants because they don't want to argue with him. He basically rules the house. He failed high school with an average of 40% roughly. They let him have parties, drink, whatever. You need to discourage this behaviour. It's really hard to do so though, especially if they are DXed with a mental disorder with fighting back and defying in their health description, but you need to work with it. Say if she doesn't come home before 10, as an example, you don't let her have her phone or the WiFi. You take her phone away or change the WiFi password so she doesn't know it. She will probably fight back, but explain to her that she can have it back if she comes back before 10 the next day, as an example. You could also try family therapy, but she needs to be willing to do it. My friend's dad has BPD, and therapy is out of the question for him because he denies he has anything wrong with him, and he also probably has conduct disorder too. If they are just going to deny it, you need to help them accept it. You will get no where if they don't want to believe it.

Anyways, these are my suggestions. I hope you can help your daughter. I wish my parents would help me more and accept that I have a lot of anxiety. I haven't even told my parents I was recently DXed with OCD either because of fear and judgment that they'll say I don't have it or whatever.

Social anxiety disorder, GAD, OCD, and panic attacks

Lexapro, 10 mg

[jacky8807]

Well I looked at some of your older posts and it seems she threatens suicide to manipulate you ect ect she has a lot of anger
Bipolar is just not jumping out at me
They won't say borderline personality because she's under 18 but they will mark her as bipolar on paperwork even if thy don't really think so to get insurance coverage
But no matter what she has I would look into dbt and also look for unorthodox treatments like those teenager nature excursions for those with trouble
What does she connect with? Animals art anything? I think positive feedback goes a long way in troubled kids
There has to be something she can be passionate about that will help her self worth

[rebecca1938]

Originally Posted by Nike007

Hello. I am a teen your daughters age, and to me, that does sound extreme. I'm always surprised how so many teens are defiant. I have too much anxiety to be defiant. I consider myself very submissive. I am not sure if it would be classified as bipolar, but I'm no professional and if they said she has teen-onset bipolar, that may be a possibility because they must have found she fits the DSM V criteria.

Anyways, I have a few things to tell you. I have mental illness (if you care, see DXs below), and one thing I wish I could have is a parent who cares that I have mental illness and wants to help. My mom is in major denial about it and thinks it's all hormonal, but I have run basically every hormonal test possible with nothing out of the ordinary. They want to check estrogen levels now. And my dad, well, doesn't deny it, but never wants to bring it up and sometimes says I just need it to go away some how. It's just not that easy, but my dad is willing to take me to a therapist or councillor or whatever I need.

Next, I suggest you also get your child to get tested for ADHD. Many children diagnosed with bipolar disorder also have ADHD. This may also be the case since you said she was previously DXed with ODD, and 40-60% of people with ADHD have ODD also. This may explain more issues that are underlying. I suggest you try to look into that and read up on ADHD and bipolar comorbidity. Here is a link I found online, but this site also has a bunch of information for disorders related to ADHD:
https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/adhd-comorbidity/

Last thing, my neighbour's kids (two boys) both have ADHD. One has combined type and the other predominantly inattentive. The one with combined type has ODD also. From stories I hear, you need to work on a reward/punishment based system. With them, I hear that the kid with ODD's parents let him do whatever he wants because they don't want to argue with him. He basically rules the house. He failed high school with an average of 40% roughly. They let him have parties, drink, whatever. You need to discourage this behaviour. It's really hard to do so though, especially if they are DXed with a mental disorder with fighting back and defying in their health description, but you need to work with it. Say if she doesn't come home before 10, as an example, you don't let her have her phone or the WiFi. You take her phone away or change the WiFi password so she doesn't know it. She will probably fight back, but explain to her that she can have it back if she comes back before 10 the next day, as an example. You could also try family therapy, but she needs to be willing to do it. My friend's dad has BPD, and therapy is out of the question for him because he denies he has anything wrong with him, and he also probably has conduct disorder too. If they are just going to deny it, you need to help them accept it. You will get no where if they don't want to believe it.

Anyways, these are my suggestions. I hope you can help your daughter. I wish my parents would help me more and accept that I have a lot of anxiety. I haven't even told my parents I was recently DXed with OCD either because of fear and judgment that they'll say I don't have it or whatever.

Social anxiety disorder, GAD, OCD, and panic attacks

Lexapro, 10 mg

First of all, I hope that you get the help and support you need. Second of all, thank you SO much for your reply. This has given me a lot to think about. It's late here now, so tomorrow I will re-read your reply. There's definately a lot to think about and with my daughter's behavior it's been difficult. Thanks so much!

[Victoria'smom]

Yes she should have a child therapist, youngish, female. If she did credit recovery then she'd be in public school. With all the charter schools you maybe able to find a good alternative school for her.