[rebecca1938]

Hi,
I am hoping you will all be kind to me. I have posted here before about my daughter. At the time it was looking like she had bipolar, but I never thought her behaviors entirely fitted that. Since taking a NAMI course, I am sure she has BPD also.
I am asking for urgent advice because she has just turned 18 last Tuesday and I have no clue what to do. Currently she is on Latuda, (20mg), Clonodine, and Lexarpo. Her behavior has always been difficult, but I knew it was more than just the usual teenage rebellion. She is unhappy, and has self harmed and made a suicide attempt that led to her being Baker Acted in 2015.
She has always had classic signs of being dependent on another person, and one person only, and it had to be someone who was 'pliable' and would do what she wanted. Well, for the last year and a bit this has been her boyfriend. She has once accused him of climbing in her bed and sexually assaulting her, and actually had the police come and told them. She got back together with him, and it goes through the same pattern of him behaving really badly, but she WILL not or CANNOT leave him because she hates to be alone.
The latest thing was a couple of weeks ago when he pulled a knife and threatened to kill himself and take her with him. She called 911. The police came and told her she had to finish the relationship with him, yet she went to back to him. She is going to refuse to prosecute him for it, and the state will not go ahead with it without her agreeing.
I have since found disturbing messages on her laptop to various people suggesting she is having sex with him, someone asking her if she is pregnant, and her mentioning she is smoking weed. She has quit school, college, job.
She refuses to live by any house rules, and when I get on from work she is gone and doesn't come back until late. I'm worried if he loses it again, he could stab her this time.
On reflection this does sound like a naughty teen, but believe me, she fits almost every marker fro BPD, has self harmed and threatens suicide when she argues with her BF. She cannot function in life in any capacity.
I just do not know what to do. I am trying to find her a counselor who does DBT, but its not easy to find, plus I am worried sick each night thinking will I get a phone call to say she's had an accident or something worse.
I'm worried if I do anything drastic like take my car off her or threaten to throw her out that she will get even worse.
Does anyone know what appropriate boundaries are for her?
Anyone got any advice at all? I'm at my wits end and about to have a nervous breakdown myself.

*In addition to the whole 'naughty teen' thing, I have tried taking things from her before and it NEVER went well. She always found a way round it and it never had the desired effect, like it would have had with a kid with no mental illness. I tried reward and punishment, but have found if she doesn't want to do something, she isn't doing no matter what reward or punishment is dished out.

[Skeezyks]

Hello Rebecca: I'm sorry your daughter is having such a difficult time. I read your post yesterday, but did not reply because I didn't think there was really much of anything I could offer. I still don't think so. But I noticed no one has replied to your post. So I decided I would.

Unfortunately the only thing I can really think of to say, I'm sure won't come as any news to you. At 18 years of age, your daughter is now basically an adult. Perhaps the time has come to set some ground rules she must abide by if she is to continue to live in your home. (I presume she does from reading your post.) And if she prefers not to abide by your ground rules, then the alternative is for her to find somewhere else to live. (If in fact she doesn't live with you, then perhaps it's simply time for you to let this go... difficult as that may be.)

I'm sure this sounds harsh. But the fact is your daughter is only going to get older year-by-year. And from what you wrote, it sounds as though nothing is likely to change with her. That being the case the likelihood is you're going to end up having to "lay down the law", so to speak, eventually anyway. So then the question becomes do you do it now or do you postpone it... perhaps to the point where you do in fact have that nervous breakdown you feel you may be about to have even now? Only you know the answer to that question.

The cold hard reality here is no matter how much you love your daughter & how much concern you have for her safety & her "success" in life, you can't make it happen for her. She is the only person who can do that for herself. No good will accrue it you allow yourself to dragged down in her undertow. I wish you well...

[rebecca1938]

Hello.
Well, I looked here earlier today and was so sad to see no reply, only because I am so desperate, so can I just say to you, thank you SO much for your reply, and you have no idea how thankful I am to read this. I know there isn't a true solution to this, but this advice helps and I can only say thank you for taking your time to reply. I agree with you, and I think that in the end the universe will be her consequence. We have tried to help her, but until she is willing to help herself, there's not much I can do. It's just so painful to watch your only child destroy herself.
But, again, thank you for being kind. I truly appreciate it.
x

Originally Posted by Skeezyks

Hello Rebecca: I'm sorry your daughter is having such a difficult time. I read your post yesterday, but did not reply because I didn't think there was really much of anything I could offer. I still don't think so. But I noticed no one has replied to your post. So I decided I would.

Unfortunately the only thing I can really think of to say, I'm sure won't come as any news to you. At 18 years of age, your daughter is now basically an adult. Perhaps the time has come to set some ground rules she must abide by if she is to continue to live in your home. (I presume she does from reading your post.) And if she prefers not to abide by your ground rules, then the alternative is for her to find somewhere else to live. (If in fact she doesn't live with you, then perhaps it's simply time for you to let this go... difficult as that may be.)

I'm sure this sounds harsh. But the fact is your daughter is only going to get older year-by-year. And from what you wrote, it sounds as though nothing is likely to change with her. That being the case the likelihood is you're going to end up having to "lay down the law", so to speak, eventually anyway. So then the question becomes do you do it now or do you postpone it... perhaps to the point where you do in fact have that nervous breakdown you feel you may be about to have even now? Only you know the answer to that question.

The cold hard reality here is no matter how much you love your daughter & how much concern you have for her safety & her "success" in life, you can't make it happen for her. She is the only person who can do that for herself. No good will accrue it you allow yourself to dragged down in her undertow. I wish you well...

Save

[FeelingOpaque]

Have you spoken with your daughter about your concerns with her future? Not just in your home, but in general? I know everyones different, our BPD expresses itself in different ways in our lives and we all react to things differently - and i dont know what kind of relationship you have with her.

Gas she been diagnosed? Has she evee sought help? Does she recognized that she has a mental illness? BPD is a dysfunction in how our brain works, and the treatment is supposed to teach us how to deal - are these things you ever spoke about with her? Or did she ever bring them up?

Its important , at least for me, to tecognoze that i had a serious problem that wasnt always under my control. Can you imagine waking up depressed in the morning, feeling calm and happy in the afternoon, angry in the evening, then severly depressed at night, beimg tottally confused all the time and thinking that its putely your fault- whenin reality it is a serious chemical imbalance in the brain that is causing you to misinterpert and misunderstand almost everything around you?

I kind of just rambled here, but maubr you can open the dialogue. Nobody, i reapet, nobody, healthy or ill like to be told, or forced how to behave.

Find out what she thinks is happening in her life, in her mind.

Again, i kimd of rambled, but i think that opening the dialogie is where to start before demanding a change because to be honest she'll probably flip her **** and do some drastic things to others and herself and she wont know how to cope.

[FeelingOpaque]

The gtammar sucks in the above post because i am on my phone.

[rebecca1938]

Originally Posted by FeelingOpaque

Have you spoken with your daughter about your concerns with her future? Not just in your home, but in general? I know everyones different, our BPD expresses itself in different ways in our lives and we all react to things differently - and i dont know what kind of relationship you have with her.

Gas she been diagnosed? Has she evee sought help? Does she recognized that she has a mental illness? BPD is a dysfunction in how our brain works, and the treatment is supposed to teach us how to deal - are these things you ever spoke about with her? Or did she ever bring them up?

Its important , at least for me, to tecognoze that i had a serious problem that wasnt always under my control. Can you imagine waking up depressed in the morning, feeling calm and happy in the afternoon, angry in the evening, then severly depressed at night, beimg tottally confused all the time and thinking that its putely your fault- whenin reality it is a serious chemical imbalance in the brain that is causing you to misinterpert and misunderstand almost everything around you?

I kind of just rambled here, but maubr you can open the dialogue. Nobody, i reapet, nobody, healthy or ill like to be told, or forced how to behave.

Find out what she thinks is happening in her life, in her mind.

Again, i kimd of rambled, but i think that opening the dialogie is where to start before demanding a change because to be honest she'll probably flip her **** and do some drastic things to others and herself and she wont know how to cope.

First of all, thank you for your reply.
Yes, I have opened a dialogue, and she has agreed she has an illness, and she agrees she should not be with her current boyfriend. But then in the next breath, she is outside his house, writing abusive messages to him, and saying 'if you don't come meet me, you'll regret it.' Last night, she went out after her dad's birthday meal, lied about who she was meeting, then I get a message from a random girl saying that my DD had messaged her telling her she was going to take an overdose. I went and got DD's laptop to check her messages for evidence since she was not answering her own phone message I sent her.
Flash forward to today and she went to her therapist who told her next time I look at her private messages she should call the police and report me.
Now, the absolute CRUCIAL piece I do not understand is that YES, I do know that no-one likes their life being controlled, but what does that MEAN for me? Have I to let her live in my home, with absolutely zero rules, using a car she was given for free, the insurance and tax paid for, health insurance her dad pays for, and I say nothing? I do not understand what I can do and what is controlling. Right now, she has no rules. AT ALL. This is important for me to get across. This is how she behaves with no control! I do not lay down the law, I do not have house rules. She lives at home, rent free, she has no job, has quit school and comes and goes as she pleases. And I would NEVER have lifted her laptop had a girl not text me that she was planning on killing herself.
I am heartbroken and at a complete loss as to how to help her and how to stop her making absolute **** life choices!
Please help!!! And advice welcome!

I'd also say she's bordering on sociopath. She has no empathy. She is manipulative to the nth degree. She is abusive and mean and nasty when she wants to be. She is only interested in things SHE wants. I am absolutely desperate. It is going to ruin my marriage, and I feel like I cannot live like this any more.

[Lonlin3zz]

As hard as it is to say, it does very little to lavish her with material goods. You mentioned she's bordering on sociopath and has no empathy, did you use your point-of-view or her point-of-view to look at her? Don't assume who she is yet.

There is many questions to ask:

- How do you communicate, verbally or non-verbally?
- Do you point out her flaws (with an intent for her to be aware or level to your expectations?)

- Did you recall talking to her in a way it may have speculated her character?
- Mirror you and her character/actions, look very closely, pick up any similarities and self-study on it.

From a 3rd party perspective:

Originally Posted by rebecca1938

[Deleted]

Flash forward to today and she went to her therapist who told her next time I look at her private messages she should call the police and report me.

She could be afraid of how you see her if you were to check on her private message.

Now, the absolute CRUCIAL piece I do not understand is that YES, I do know that no-one likes their life being controlled, but what does that MEAN for me? Have I to let her live in my home, with absolutely zero rules, using a car she was given for free, the insurance and tax paid for, health insurance her dad pays for, and I say nothing?

No one likes to be controlled too much, but if one has too much freedom they might make unwise decisions. Be there to guide her, show her.

I do not understand what I can do and what is controlling. Right now, she has no rules. AT ALL. This is important for me to get across. This is how she behaves with no control! I do not lay down the law, I do not have house rules. She lives at home, rent free, she has no job, has quit school and comes and goes as she pleases. And I would NEVER have lifted her laptop had a girl not text me that she was planning on killing herself.

My elder brother acts like this, because my father is too authoritative, and hardly says comforting words to our own family members. However, my father is a kind person, just with a poisonous tone.

[ Deleted ]

I'd also say she's bordering on sociopath. She has no empathy. She is manipulative to the nth degree. She is abusive and mean and nasty when she wants to be. She is only interested in things SHE wants. I am absolutely desperate. It is going to ruin my marriage, and I feel like I cannot live like this any more.

She is or she acts like?

I, in no way is an expert or a Therapist, this is just my questions/views as an outsider. I mean no offence and neither do I want to show that I am correct.

I live by this rule, "How you do what you do, is more important than what you do". I'm here to listen thoroughly regardless of how things goes. You must persist in getting it right, not by your own method all the time.

I seem like I might be making an assumption, but don't see it as this way. I'm rooting for you!

I admire the first step she took was to admit she has illness. I admire that you're trying to build a bridge despite many unsuccessful attempt, just continue doing it.

[rebecca1938]

Originally Posted by Lonlin3zz

As hard as it is to say, it does very little to lavish her with material goods. You mentioned she's bordering on sociopath and has no empathy, did you use your point-of-view or her point-of-view to look at her? Don't assume who she is yet.

There is many questions to ask:

- How do you communicate, verbally or non-verbally?
- Do you point out her flaws (with an intent for her to be aware or level to your expectations?)

- Did you recall talking to her in a way it may have speculated her character?
- Mirror you and her character/actions, look very closely, pick up any similarities and self-study on it.

From a 3rd party perspective:


I, in no way is an expert or a Therapist, this is just my questions/views as an outsider. I mean no offence and neither do I want to show that I am correct.

I live by this rule, "How you do what you do, is more important than what you do". I'm here to listen thoroughly regardless of how things goes. You must persist in getting it right, not by your own method all the time.

I seem like I might be making an assumption, but don't see it as this way. I'm rooting for you!

I admire the first step she took was to admit she has illness. I admire that you're trying to build a bridge despite many unsuccessful attempt, just continue doing it.

Thank you so much. It totally struck a chord when you said about she may not want me to read her messages because I would find out about her character. I believe this may be the case, given the terrible hurtful messages she is sending to people. She was probably mortified and that is where it is coming from.

I will consider the rest of your points, and I appreciate you taking the time to write this for me.

As of last night, she left the home. I was talking to my mother, and it struck me. The most obvious and startling thing about her personality is that she HAS to be 100% in control of everything at all times. For example, if I asked her to brush her teeth, she takes it as a personal attack. As she grew up, we used the usual parental tactics of if you do A, you lose your cell phone. Her answer? She bought her own plan, which she sometimes can't afford to pay, but she doesn't care because all she cares about is she has complete control over it and we can no longer threaten her with taking it away. Ditto the car. She hasn't got money to buy one yet, but when she does she will buy and old crap car, simply because then we can't take it away from her. Maybe these aren't the best discipline tactics, but doesn't every parent say those things are privileges and use them as discipline tools? But yes, control is her thing, and if its taken away, boy does she rage and melt down. (I get that everyone wants to control their own lives, but hers is way over normal levels, and is hurting her choices and decisions.)

In addition, she does not understand emotions. I will say to her, I need you answer me if I message you at midnight asking where you are because if you don't answer I start to worry. She totally blows this off, like what are you worrying for, I'm fine. She doesn't seem to be able to put herself in my shoes and understand that I am her mother, and so I worry. In fact, she acts like she should not be parented at all, but again I think that's to do with control. What is actually a loved one trying to guide their relative to happiness and success is seen by her as unwanted control.

I hope that helps to explain her a bit more. Thanks again and I will re-read your reply and give it more thought!

[rebecca1938]

That cat keyboard gif made me laugh so hard by the way...I needed that!

[Lonlin3zz]

No worries, your daughter and I shares similar styles of independance. She wants to be in control because it's like an image to portray, to show she is strong. However the hard truth is, we punish ourselves by not letting others help us because we are subconsciously trying to maintain that image of independence. I've learnt to love myself after punishing myself for so long and I wished people see me as a person behind all these image that I was trying to portray.

If you remove layers and layers of a human protection, you will see that at the end of the day, you're seeing a person in their purest form.

Your daughter is probably on the path of self-learning, but not yet at the true level of loving and taking care of herself. It's a life of trial-and-error, but like your intent, I also don't want to see her being led astray and learn painful lessons. You and her closest friends are the ones who is able to guide her, so we should be mindful of how we approach her.

[rebecca1938]

Hello all.
I see that I started this thread back in April, and I am back again because again I find myself desperate for advice. Things have not got any better, and in fact I'm amazed I have survived this last few months myself. So, she didn't tell us, but at some point she came off all her meds, which makes sense, because on lamictil she was pretty stable, and at one point I actually asked my husband why she was acting so out of control and making lots of terrible decisions. She was visibly worse in terms of everything, her attitude, choices she made etc...
We were due to fly to the UK for 5 weeks at the end of May, and the day before we were due to fly she told me she thought she might be pregnant. Well, she was. Now a few weeks before this she had a major meltdown because we took the car off her because she chose to drive it while in a state therefore not safe for her or others. The reason she drove in a state was because she had been arguing with this same boyfriend. Well, the night we wouldn’t give her the car keys she had a breakdown. She was curled up on the kitchen floor saying ‘I want to kill you and dad.’ Then she packed a bag and ordered an uber. Well, she says that the boyfriend told her she could only stay if she slept with him, and that’s when she fell pregnant. Then she said it was our fault for ‘driving her to him.’
We didn’t know what to do about the trip, but in the end decided to all go to the UK, where she got a termination. Now, when we got back to the USA in July, she went back to this same boyfriend and at one point said he strangled her until she passed out. (she exaggerates so I don’t think she passed out, but still.) So she talked to the police about this. This was the 3rd time she has called police about him. The first time, she said he got into her bed and assaulted her. This came to nothing. The second time he had a knife to her and she could have prosecuted him but didn’t. The third time I just mentioned.
Her behavior has spiraled. She lies about where she is going and who with then stays out all night. At one point a few weeks ago she threw something at me in anger and I told her to leave. She did and was gone for 2 weeks, and I was getting worried and she asked to come back so we let her, but she was back at it immediately staying out all night etc. Basically she is still seeing this boyfriend. When challenged about it, she says she cant quit him and the police told her that women in an abusive relationship go back at least 7-8 times before being able to leave for good. However, I also heard her on the phone to someone saying how they enjoy playing mental games and I think he is as ill as her, and they do enjoy the drama, lying, arguing etc…
Well, after she came home she has brought a puppy home. It is adorable of course, but I don’t agree with how she is looking after it. Now, she’s not being cruel, but she’s certainly not doing it right. She is very anti social and if I challenge her about it I just get a mouthful of verbal abuse.
Help. I can’t live with her for much longer. And in case anyone says I’m cruel, I would do ANYTHING to help her, but she doesn’t want help, nor does she think her actions are any worse than the average teen, so what can I do? Until SHE feels she needs help, there’s nothing I can do, and not being able to help her is killing me.
Any advice welcomed.

[Shazerac]

ok if she's throwing things at you and saying she wants to kill you you need to get her the hell out of your house!!!

My daughter got in increasingly beligerant, had a horrible boyfriend who was a cocaine dealer and then escalated to actually violence. She would walk by me and shove me with her shoulder. She would throw tantrums, scream obscenities at me and tell me that she wished I was dead. I allowed this agressive behavior for years. And then she threw a her partially packed suitcase at me and knocked me down. It was partially packed because I wouldn't buy her a new bathing suit and told her to get a job.

That day something in me snapped. I grabbed her by her collar and tossed her out the door, threw her suitcase and boom box out in the front yard followed by her curling iron, jewelry box, and her purse. Everything purchased by me of course even though she was old Enough to support herself. It wasn't my finest hour and was somewhat of a redneck eviction, but I had reached my limit.

Don't take threats of violence lightly. I had a friend who allowed her mentally ill son to remain in their house even though he was aggressivenes, violent and used drugs and alcohol. Her husband was the sons stepfather and the son would say "Your not my father and you can't tell me what to do" whenever he tried to intervene.

This went on for years getting worse and worse. Finally the son attacked the mother. Her husband tried to stop it. THe son flew into a violent rage and KILLED him. somehow claiming innocent by reason of insanity he got away with it and still lives with her. She lives in constant fear for her life and does anything and everything the son demands. This is a worse case scenario, but an example of what can happen when you ignore threats.

[rebecca1938]

Originally Posted by Shazerac

ok if she's throwing things at you and saying she wants to kill you you need to get her the hell out of your house!!!

My daughter got in increasingly beligerant, had a horrible boyfriend who was a cocaine dealer and then escalated to actually violence. She would walk by me and shove me with her shoulder. She would throw tantrums, scream obscenities at me and tell me that she wished I was dead. I allowed this agressive behavior for years. And then she threw a her partially packed suitcase at me and knocked me down. It was partially packed because I wouldn't buy her a new bathing suit and told her to get a job.

That day something in me snapped. I grabbed her by her collar and tossed her out the door, threw her suitcase and boom box out in the front yard followed by her curling iron, jewelry box, and her purse. Everything purchased by me of course even though she was old Enough to support herself. It wasn't my finest hour and was somewhat of a redneck eviction, but I had reached my limit.

Don't take threats of violence lightly. I had a friend who allowed her mentally ill son to remain in their house even though he was aggressivenes, violent and used drugs and alcohol. Her husband was the sons stepfather and the son would say "Your not my father and you can't tell me what to do" whenever he tried to intervene.

This went on for years getting worse and worse. Finally the son attacked the mother. Her husband tried to stop it. THe son flew into a violent rage and KILLED him. somehow claiming innocent by reason of insanity he got away with it and still lives with her. She lives in constant fear for her life and does anything and everything the son demands. This is a worse case scenario, but an example of what can happen when you ignore threats.

Thank you for this. She was out of the house for a couple of weeks not so long ago, but of course guilt set in and I let her came back. Basically, a lot of her behavior is anti-social, and she has little to no empathy for how she is making me feel. She is delusional and thinks her behavior is normal, and that I'm the one who is 'psycho.' My heart is broken because I only have one child and now I have no relationship with her, but I have tried 100 plus things to try and help her and nothing has helped and I don't have a magic wand to make her better. I'm pretty heartbroken, but have come to the conclusion that until SHE realizes how much of a mess her life is and has had enough of it, there's nothing much anyone can do. I appreciate your advice. Thank you <3

Save

[rebecca1938]

I told her today that our relationship is on hold and when she can come back to me with respect then we can start again. However, she is still living free in my house with a puppy and this is the second night in a row she's been out past midnight. She normalizes all of her crappy behavior.
One thing I am very worried about is that my husband and I are meant to go away for 2 weeks over Christmas, and I do not trust her to be in this house. She'll allow her deviant boyfriend in my home, against my permission.
I'm so sick and tired of this. I just want some peace in my life.

[reb569]

Rebecca -- my heart breaks for you. I have been struggling with my own daughter's MI for a couple years. It isn't easy. My daughter has been diagnosed with Bipolar 2 while IP, with BP traits, and MDD, GAD out patient. Her out-patient PDoc doesn't think she has Bipolar 2, but anti-depressants trigger hypomania so she is on Tegratol in addition to two anti-depressants (an SSNRi and a trycylic).

She definitely has control issues and has been very angry at me for a long time. I have been very confused about this because I have always given her input and I find it hard to find cases where I have been overly controlling of her. When her grades started dropping in 10th grade and it was obvious she was no longer in the GPA range to get scholarships for the colleges she was interested in I did tell her that starting at a community college then transferring to a University was probably her best option unless she could get her grades back up.

That said, her anger his primarily been internalized or has been passive-aggressive. I've never felt threatened by her, and she has always been very good about letting me know where she is going and when she will be home. As a matter of fact for a long time I was just hoping for her to go do more.

She recently moved out and is living with her boyfriend and they are doing good. Unfortunately, she just informed us the other night that she can't handle college, she's behind and just not interested in it. She's dropping out. She also can't handle work because of anxiety. I'm devastated because I was hoping that school would go good for her this time and that if she could at least get her associates, that she would be able to get a job that had some growth potential. I have lost hope that this will happen now.

Anyway I guess my point in all this is that I understand how this can impact you. I have CPTSD, have had it my whole life but didn't realize it until the last year or so. The situation with my daughter has pushed me to the breaking point. I struggle daily with depression and/or anxiety. I am now trying to figure out how I can help her work on her anxiety so that someday she will be able to go to school, or work, or both. I also know from experience that if I recommend something she will most likely disregard it. She turned 19 recently, so technically, as an adult, I really have no control over what she does. Still, however; I want to help her find a solution. She is on my health insurance. It's so hard and I can only imagine how hard it's been for you.

I'll just finish up by recommending that you make sure to take care of yourself. I have to remind myself that I need to do that too.