[Troy]

I'm not in therapy, but I did go to VA for evaluation for PTSD and the Dr who met with me finally gained my trust after the second meeting. She knows more about me that the readers of these posts.

And today i went to the hospital and intended to see her, but instead i found out she is dead. I met w her about 3 weeks ago. She got married 2 weeks ago. adn she died one week ago. She went on honeymoon and came back and died.

I have to tell ya that this has affected me much more than i could ahve ever imagined. Much more than the deaths of some family members.

She was in her 30s. This is a real tragedy, just ike those of soldiers. And it proves once again, do not get close to anyone because thy will soon be taken from you. As soon as i start to trust someone, she dies. it feels like it is my fault. Just like the dead and wounded solders are my fault - please don't get close to me.

[insightunseen]

how tragic!! awful, unexpected, and shocking. if my therapist died i might feel cursed too.
there is so much sorrow all around us. and we feel it more acutely because we know what trauma really does to your whole life. i think that makes us feel unsafe to be around. in addition to the impossible load of agony we walk around feeling we are leaking every day.
the poor husband of your therapist must feel unfairly struck down in anguish too. maybe a note about the therapist's special quality might help, for you and others close to her?
so sorry, troy. there are no answers.

Originally Posted by Troy

I'm not in therapy, but I did go to VA for evaluation for PTSD and the Dr who met with me finally gained my trust after the second meeting. She knows more about me that the readers of these posts.

And today i went to the hospital and intended to see her, but instead i found out she is dead. I met w her about 3 weeks ago. She got married 2 weeks ago. adn she died one week ago. She went on honeymoon and came back and died.

I have to tell ya that this has affected me much more than i could ahve ever imagined. Much more than the deaths of some family members.

She was in her 30s. This is a real tragedy, just ike those of soldiers. And it proves once again, do not get close to anyone because thy will soon be taken from you. As soon as i start to trust someone, she dies. it feels like it is my fault. Just like the dead and wounded solders are my fault - please don't get close to me.

[bebop]

oh hon I am so sorry! how tragic! it is not your fault troy. do you know what happened?

[Open Eyes]

I am very sorry Troy, thats terrible. I honestly don't know what to say at the moment. It is normal to feel like you feel, I would feel that way too. I did have a marriage coucelor die and he was healthy and was murdered. I guess you would have to think what she would have said about that kind of loss Troy. If you knew her than it may be a good way to think about what she may say to comfort you. What did she say about the loss of your friends.

[Open Eyes]

The truth is that yes when we lose someone we get confused and often feel fear.
And this is because we are programmed to survive. When we see that another has not survivied well, we get very upset because it goes against what we are programmed to do, survive. So, what you feel is normal. It takes time to understand that yes, this does happen, life if really fragile and we do have to accept that yes, others do not live a full life.

But, the one thing that it does do for us is draw us further into finding ways TO SURVIVE and as a result we do live longer lives. We now have many ways of addressing the different causes of dealing with the loss of life. And, we keep trying and we are living longer because of it. But we do not have all the answers yet.
So with every loss we are reminded of just that. We have a hard time with that.
It is a normal reaction Troy.

Every day we live, we must somehow realize that life itself is fragile and we must take time to live and take pleasure in WHAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE in spite of seeing that OTHERS DO NOT GET THAT CHANCE.

Open Eyes

[Can't Stop Crying]

I am so sorry! I wish I had something more comforting to say. It was NOT your fault!

[Troy]

Oh, cant stop crying, that is such a good name for me. I know it is not my fault, just as i know i am not to blame for all the deaths of my soldiers, but the guilt and the blame and the responsibilty still comes back to me.

I just cannot let anyone close becuz they will be taken also and it will be my fult no matter what logic says, no matter waht anyone else says. getting close to me is hazardous.

I felt this way once before, when i found that a close combat friend had died. His adult son emailed me with thi sinfo, and i felt like I ws just devastated. And i felt this way when i met wih the psychiatrist about ptsd. He asked wy i was reluctant for treatment, and i told him through tears and sobbing, that "it's like the bad guys win. It's like I finally have surrendered."

He told me the 'bad guys didnt win" but let's ask why this fine young woman has died. He deathi s just as random and tragic as any GI.

I was asking about her because I wanted to tell her how much she has helped me, just with two visits and neither as regular counseling, and now she is dead. I canot tell her.

this is tragic

[Troy]

Originally Posted by bebop

oh hon I am so sorry! how tragic! it is not your fault troy. do you know what happened?

I'm told the death is of natural causes. I thought at first she was suicide, but I dont think so since she was just married an d honymoon. Blood clot from a leg injury is the officil cuse
cause.

thank u bebop
this is like the ned
end

[Can't Stop Crying]

Troy - I completely understand how hard it is to make your heart believe what your head already knows. Logic seems to go completely out the window when the feelings are so real and overwhelming. Could you write a letter to the doctor letting her know how much she helped you in those two sessions for your benefit? It might help to process the grief. Let the thoughts and feelings you were going to express to her out so you don't have to carry them with you.

I understand a lot about shame and guilt and responsibility - not from combat, but from other trauma. It is a hard thing to overcome. Guilt and self-blame thrive in secrecy, start to eat you alive from the inside out. Exposing the feelings and recognizing that you are not responsible is a hard, but necessary step. And believe me, I know it is easier said than done.

My heart is breaking for you! Thank you for serving our country! You deserve a chance to heal from this. While I might not have all the answers, I have two ears to listen and two shoulders to lean on. I will keep you in my thoughts!

[mgran]

Oh, sweetheart!!! I'm so sorry... what an awful thing to happen to you.

There was a time when I was younger when I had a terrible run of bad luck. Within a year, I was raped, then two of my best friends from school died, one of cancer, the other was raped and murdered. Then my mother killed herself, and my Grandad died... and I heard one of the other girls in my college joking about it... she said, "we should put a warning up, 'ring of death surrounds M... B...'" At the time I thought it was my fault, I believed I was cursed. I couldn't make friends with anyone. It had always been very difficult for me, but the loss of the only two girls I'd been friendly with really cut me, and my family members dying so shortly after was the final nail in the coffin.

But believe me, it's not always going to hurt like that. You will get past it (that's not to say you'll get over it, you'll always feel the hurt when you think about it.) At least, hang onto this... she was newly wed, she was on her honey moon, she died happy. And she wished the very best for you, she wanted you to be happy too.

Hang onto that. Happiness is attainable... don't give up. She wouldn't have given up on you. Don't you give up on yourself.

[(JD)]

(((((Troy))))

I just cannot let anyone close becuz they will be taken also and it will be my fult no matter what logic says, no matter waht anyone else says. getting close to me is hazardous.

That is the PTSD talking. Trust me. That is not you...that is not the truth...that's what the PTSD talks like. Don't believe it. Tell it that isn't true, and even though the PTSD will make it feel true, it isn't.

[Open Eyes]

Hi Troy,
It is good to see you posting and letting out your feelings. Thats good for you to do, better than holding them in.

It isn't you, nothing to do with you Troy. So many people die all around the world every day. We are bound to know them, not our fault we don't carry curses. I went to a funeral last week and this woman was fairly young too, it was very sad as she touched so many lives and was a very good person.

You know perhaps yes it is sad that this young woman died, but she probably didn't know it was coming and didn't suffer like so many others that suffer for a long time with some sort of disease or illness.

I think her new husband is really having a hard time too. He may feel some guilt as well and he will never forget this experience as long as he lives. It will take him a while before he gets close to someone else and allow himself to fall in love or care again, think of him. So in thinking of him, you must realize that he too is not alone.

But it is a part of life Troy, and we do have to accept that yes, we lose others in life and that is why we also must learn to enjoy the life we are given and yes reach out to others. The others that may feel lonely but don't because we reached out. There are good things in life too. It is not about knowing someone who has gone, it is how we touched them or they touched us while they were here, for whatever time that was. The fact that you care means that you have a lot to offer, even though you may not realize that now. Caring about the loss of others means that we can also care about the others that are lost in other ways and need in other ways.

Survival is not a curse, it gives us another chance to meet others, help others in ways that you do not even realize yet. You are still young and when you do recover, you can help others do the same, others that walk in pain as you will know how they feel and how they need to not be all alone.

Life is a gift Troy each person can be a gift. Even the others that come here and support each other, give gifts of hope and the knowing that we are not alone.

The beginning of healing is the moment we ask for help.
The path to healing is learning to accept help
The strength starts to come when we also offer help.

Open Eyes

[summersquash]

Originally Posted by Troy

I'm not in therapy, but I did go to VA for evaluation for PTSD and the Dr who met with me finally gained my trust after the second meeting. She knows more about me that the readers of these posts.

And today i went to the hospital and intended to see her, but instead i found out she is dead. I met w her about 3 weeks ago. She got married 2 weeks ago. adn she died one week ago. She went on honeymoon and came back and died.

I have to tell ya that this has affected me much more than i could ahve ever imagined. Much more than the deaths of some family members.

She was in her 30s. This is a real tragedy, just ike those of soldiers. And it proves once again, do not get close to anyone because thy will soon be taken from you. As soon as i start to trust someone, she dies. it feels like it is my fault. Just like the dead and wounded solders are my fault - please don't get close to me.

Troy,
Hi. I know i have PTSD from something that happened in my past and please understand i am not ready or may never tell people the story of what happened in here but i really really am happy i found a place where there are people like me. I want to share this true story with you Troy. I have not been in combat in the service (so you know). When i was going thru my divorce some years ago i had no idea and im not kidding that it was coming. i was unhappy about some stuff my husband knew what it was and he wouldnt make some life changes with me anyhow. At that time i lived in a beautiful neighborhood with people that we all had kids around the same time, were raising our families etc. My husband send me divorce papers, i was served at my front door near Christmas (great timing) within the next few months i just could not in my life believe what was taking place on our block a neighbor who was just a great guy in his 30s at that time that i knew him took his life, the family with a huge house and beautiful kids were having marital problems, the woman across the street got cancer she was about 35 i would say at that time wanted for nothing and lasted about 6 months, some of the other couples i knew and others i did not. I swore that there was seriously someone else causing a curse or whatever. i also thought maybe the economy effected some of them and me. i didnt have the answers. im not promoting that you turn Catholic but i am going to tell you what i do and i hope it helps you. There is a prayer to Saint Michael the Archangel and i dont know how to post. You can find it on a catholic website. it is a prayer of protection and i say it OFTEN and im not kidding i say it believing God will hear me when i say it. #2 im on this website for anxiety and many things. when i was young i was too little that this stuff didnt bother me as much as now. I try to go with the belief that i was taught : God has a book up there (he may have graduated to computers) in it is marked the day we are born and the day we die. WE have no control over these dates. It makes me sick when someone dies young. I have no control. All I can do is pray. There are no answers. you said DO NOT GET CLOSE TO ANYONE BECAUSE THEY WILL BE TAKEN AWAY. Think think did everyone in your life fit this sentence. Chances are no. Yes you found a good friend when you met that doctor and i bet you were looking forward to her working with you and who knows why her time on earth was over. Her death is certainly NOT YOUR FAULT unless you did it. If everyone does not get close to you it seems you feel no one will pass away. People in the world will still pass away. I think your depression is making you believe things in your own mind. Hope what i shared with you helps you to see that ive been thru the everyone is dying and getting cancer around me time period. and may the Prayer to Saint Michael give you Peace when you feel anxiety. Say it to yourself.

summersquash

Troy
I don't have words to say how awful this is. I do understand the feelings behind it though. It ISN'T YOU! Please believe that. I am so sorry; I wish I had more to offer than this pitiful words.....

[Troy]

I'm glad you mentioned her husband. i'll try to find a way to send him a note because her counseling did have a good impact on me -- probably has helped me avoid suicide, and for sure gave me some helpful techniques to use daily.

i would have continued to work with her even though I didn't want to go into group therapy at this time.

i need to get in touch with her husband and let him know how valuable she was to vets ... and thank you... please stay in touch

Originally Posted by insightunseen

how tragic!! awful, unexpected, and shocking. if my therapist died i might feel cursed too.
there is so much sorrow all around us. and we feel it more acutely because we know what trauma really does to your whole life. i think that makes us feel unsafe to be around. in addition to the impossible load of agony we walk around feeling we are leaking every day.
the poor husband of your therapist must feel unfairly struck down in anguish too. maybe a note about the therapist's special quality might help, for you and others close to her?
so sorry, troy. there are no answers.

[Troy]

And thanks for these remarks ... for many years I was almost totally disabled by the guilt of survival, knowing it should have been me who died instead of my troops. In just two meetings this therapist helped me a lot.

In the next few days a relative of mine will die, and i feel nothing about tht compared to the loss of this therapist life.

While it might be normal to feel like we have some connection to the deaths, I still go back to the point where I don't want any close relationships -- it all leads to pain. And besides that, what if I'm the next one to die? Then the other people will feel the pain.

It's all way way confusing and illogical. Thank you for being here.

QUOTE=Open Eyes;1847268]The truth is that yes when we lose someone we get confused and often feel fear.
And this is because we are programmed to survive. When we see that another has not survivied well, we get very upset because it goes against what we are programmed to do, survive. So, what you feel is normal. It takes time to understand that yes, this does happen, life if really fragile and we do have to accept that yes, others do not live a full life.

But, the one thing that it does do for us is draw us further into finding ways TO SURVIVE and as a result we do live longer lives. We now have many ways of addressing the different causes of dealing with the loss of life. And, we keep trying and we are living longer because of it. But we do not have all the answers yet.
So with every loss we are reminded of just that. We have a hard time with that.
It is a normal reaction Troy.

Every day we live, we must somehow realize that life itself is fragile and we must take time to live and take pleasure in WHAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE in spite of seeing that OTHERS DO NOT GET THAT CHANCE.

Open Eyes[/QUOTE]

[missbelle]

So sorry for your pain....Life sucks sometimes and is not at all fair. So for you, you go on and become strong and stronger and make something of your life for all the people that died and could not have a life.
Hugs;
Dee

Thanks Open Eyes
That was a wonderful post!!!

[Open Eyes]

Good to see you back Troy. I worry you know.

If we live on the premise that we should not love others because we might get a broken heart if we lose them, or if we allow someone to love us than we might break a heart. Well a broken heart means that one has been loved. Better a broken heart than a heart that has been broken by never being loved.

When you speak of the therapist and how she helped you, well at least she was there and she did help you. As for her husband, I am willing to bet that he would not have changed anything had he known he would not have her for the rest of his life.
It was wonderful of him to love her, she got married, had a wedding and a loving honeymoon. And, Troy, some people go through their whole lives not knowing that.

We cannot be afraid to give love or be loved on the condition that someone may not live a full life, it is a chance we all take. The truth is that none of us know how long we will live. As the days go by we do get acustomed to living, either in happiness or with illness, or even mental illness. We all seem to think that we will suffer out our lives without realizing that we really don't know how long that will be. So, at the most we must take the time we have and try to appreciate what we can have. If we live longer than someone else, then perhaps we can give love and help to others. Even just giving another person a kind thought, taking a moment to listen and show concern is a gift we can give in our time in life. It can be so meaningful to a person to know true kindness, caring and good intentions directed to them personally.

What your goal should be Troy is to learn not to be afraid of life, but to accept what you have in it and try to reach out and share it with others. Yes, you have seen lives lost, all of a sudden and that is hard to see. But that is a part of life and we all have to accept it, and remember that we need to live our lives instead of giving up. At least remember that if the therapist were here to talk to you about this, she would say the same. She worked with you, with others, chose that work, because she did want to see others have some quality to thier lives.

The best way you can remember her is to finish what she tried to start and continue to heal.
Dont worry about disappointing others, as long as you try and you give love, others will appreciate you. That is really all any of us can do.

If everyone was afraid to love or be loved, then no one would be loved and that would be sad.
Yes, you have seen loss. But you are here and you deserve to heal and live, just like everyone else. And none of us are perfect, oh we all have our little squeeks. But that is what makes us all unique. Instead of punishing yourself for being here, try to be grateful for having more time to spend with others and live and learn, and try to enjoy with no guilt. And never be hard on yourself for being human and having genuine concerns and fears, normal fears.

Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

I just wanted to add Troy. My husband has been having a hard time understanding my PTSD. And I have been struggling, I wont lie.

But he has a friend in AA that is a vet from Vietnam. This friend sat down with my husband and told him how PTSD is and how he has to be patient with me and how hard it is. This friend is much better now and he told my husband, listen to your wife, she is telling you that she is trying, give her time.

So, Troy, I am glad that man lived, because my husband is so much kinder and understanding to me. And, my husband has a friend to ask when he has questions.
He has someone who will tell him what I have been going through.

There are lots of reasons to heal Troy. Things that you may share down the road that you don't even realize yet.

Open Eyes

[SkittlesMoney]

All I know is that it isn't you. I believe in curses and all of that stuff. I have a true curse on me. But God helps me deals with it. I don't mind at all.

And everyone has a set date of dying, I have to turn my feelings off, because if I was sad for every person I knew that has died. I would be in a depression I couldn't come out of. And that's why I'm bipolar, but in my mind, I've earned it.

Just keep faith, and everything will be fine.

[Michah]

Troy, despite the fact that you are a continent away......we are close......we are mates.......and I am still here.

You have always taken care of me, as I hope I have taken care of you.

I can imagine your pain and your sadness at the death of this person. You shared something, intimacy, and now she is gone. It reminds you of other deep and enduring pain, but you could no sooner have prevented her death than fly to the moon.

The only people we can truly be responsible for, is ourselves. There are many complex designs for others, dear friend......so large and interwoven in to the fabric of life, that we would be arrogant to think that we could prevent, change or misdirect the outcomes of others. You are not responsible and in your heart of hearts, you know that.

You liked her. You shared with her the Darkness. You might have even grown to really respect and cherish her insight, her help, her support. But there will be another. Grieve, for it is natural.

You are SO truly loved Troy. The fabric of life will provide. I guarantee it.

Michah

[sunviper]

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat." -THEODORE ROOSEVELT

[sunviper]

"Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - George Orwell

[sunviper]

I’m not sure how to start this but I will start when I joined the army in 1977. When I joined I had my choice of infantry or supply, I decided on supply. After basic training and AIT I went airborne but I hurt my leg and decided instead of waiting around for the next rotation I would put in to be stationed overseas. I was in the Army for 16 ½ years.

My first station was in a place called Mokiminoto, in Okinawa. I was stationed there for 2 years and I loved it. The unit I was with was so small that they changed it to a detachment. Snorkeling, Scuba diving, gambling, typhoons and women helped out the boredom. I will only talk about my overseas duty stations or I would have to write a book.

The second tour was Korea, I lucked out and got put in 2nd Div on a hardship tour for a year. After going back to the states I was sent back to Korea on a command sponsored tour for 2 years with 19th Support. For my 4th tour I was stationed in Ayers Kaserne - Kirchgoens Germany with Bravo Battery 2d Battalion, 3d Field Artillery (2/3 FA) that was part of the 3rd Armored Division. Are battery fired from 155mm self-propelled Howitzers, I also went to Iraq with them.

I don’t want to get to far into it because I have a problem with PTSD and talking about it, but are orders were to destroy enemy forces. They put my battery up front to support 3/5 Cav. There was nothing in front of use but are fisters or spotters. What made me mad was that I was in a hemmet and before we went into combat are Battalion gave us orders to take out all the wind shields so that there would be no reflections off of them. My driver even took off the roof of the Hemmet so that he could stand up and fire. He never thought about the rainy season.

On are first attack all I say was A10 tank killers and Apache Helicopters over are heads and in front of us we received mortars and incoming. For a time we were so close to the enemy that we had to have ether firing batteries fire over are heads. Maybe that is why I go into flash backs and freak out when I’m around fireworks. I also think that we were one of the first to reach the highway of death as it was called. I have had a lot more stressers as the VA would call them but I don't like to get into them. I still believe that they put us up front is because we were nuclear capable special weapons and all. We were in Iraq for 6 months.

Well as it goes after I got back from Iraq I became a alcoholic. My next duty station I got into trouble and was shipped off to El Paso, TX for alcohol treatment. I kept getting into trouble because I did not care about anything. When the army started to down size I figured that I would be the first to go and I was right. Instead of kicking me out they let me out by what they called Force Reduction and gave me separation pay and an honorable discharge that made it my 5th one.

In 2003, I received my first DUI after hitting 2 cars and going down a 40 foot embankment luck was going my way and no one was hurt. I then came up with a great idea and quit drinking and started ordering codeine online from overseas and at the same time going to school to become a Pharmacy Technician which as I look back was not such a great idea. I was getting most of it from Spain and Romania, it would be delivered to my mail box. I was taking around 800mg a day. This had to stop or I was going to die so I called the VA after going through the worst withdrawals of all times at home. I made an appointment with the VA in Menlo Park, CA. The women I talked to said I had PTSD, so after going through two thirty day drug and alcohol programs they sent me to the National Center for PTSD as an inpatient.

I was there for 72 days. It was very hard going through the trauma groups some people could not do it. I still have a lot of problems with depression, nightmares and most of the other things that go with PTSD. I got out of being an inpatient on 11/19/2004, and put in for PTSD disability on 11/30/2004. I had my compensation and pension meeting and came up with a 36 gaff score. I am now 100% service connected and receiving 100% disability and considered nonemployable, I am also receiving 100% disability through Social Security after being denied it 2 times. On the 3rd time about 2 weeks before I went to court, I received my paper work through the VA approving my 100% disability. I mailed this to the Social Security Office. When the day came to go to court I did not get a lawyer and they granted me full disability. I stay home all the time and read.