Question about mindfulness for emotions

Also, has anyone with alexithymia done mindfulness?

Alexithymia: difficulty or inability identifying and/or verbalising emotions, feelings. Often they'll be unrecognised bodily sensations, where you notice the sensation but it doesn't get recognised as emotion.

Alexithymia can be inborn or acquired from trauma, or both.

So depending on the severity of alexithymia, some of your emotions could be just bodily sensations where you cannot do any top-down processing and control of emotion.

(ArmorPlate if you are still reading, I don't know if you had that.)

I have difficulty in recognising and naming emotions too. I really struggle with doing mindfulness because I know I am feeling / experiencing something, I just don't know what!

I often come to a dead stop in therapy sessions because I can't verbalise what it is I'm feeling.

It is very frustrating.

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Yeah, I get you. I've read that only a minority of therapists are trained/have experience with alexithymic clients. Is your therapist trained with it? Have emotion word lists helped you, or did therapists not provide you with any such list? Do you have no problem feeling something even if asked what you feel "on the spot", is it just a problem with labelling?

Why or how does mindfulness require you to know what you are feeling or experiencing? (Real question, I'd like to hear more on this if you can say more)

***

I'll add more in case it helps.

I would say it already counts as identification/recognition of a feeling/emotion if you recognise you've felt it before and you know what to do with it based on previous experience, or if it's new then you know because you can connect it to the situation you are in, or whatever thing/memory you are thinking of, where you can see what it is a reaction to and how.

Verbalising is a separate step from that, especially if it comes to verbalising the nuances. You may be able to say what basic emotion you are feeling, without further precision or nuances. Many times you don't really have to verbally describe those nuances to know how to make a decision or take action on what you feel.

But if you can't even identify a feeling like above and emotion word lists or emotion wheel images (downloadable online) don't help, then I would say you can be patient and try and wait to see if you can identify it later, observing it on several occasions and in different situations, contexts.

I was encouraged to try mindfulness in order to become more aware of what I was feeling which drove how my thoughts affected my behaviours. My difficulty is that I often have a feeling or emotion, but I can't 'name' it.

My Ex-T was trained in working with alexithymic clients and she gave me some word lists, which sometimes helped. I don't think current T is specifically trained in this area.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by East17 I was encouraged to try mindfulness in order to become more aware of what I was feeling which drove how my thoughts affected my behaviours. My difficulty is that I often have a feeling or emotion, but I can't 'name' it. My Ex-T was trained in working with alexithymic clients and she gave me some word lists, which sometimes helped. I don't think current T is specifically trained in this area. Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk

Those word lists helped but what helped also was going beyond that with the word lists & I took the list that applied to me & thought through exactly why & the cause of each of those emotions. That was my real break through

So you did not have to take a long time first to observe the feelings in different situations, contexts to be able to recognise them nonverbally before naming them like that? Did you usually have feelings when asked what you're feeling, just not verbalised, not labelled, or consciously understood by yourself before doing therapy/practices like that?

The emotion wheel helped me identify feelings or rather be more specific about identifying them. I had a lot of "anger" I needed to release. I tried a lot of different ways of processing it all, but if I didn't identify it beyond general anger, none of the techniques worked.
I know this is a different approach, but when I couldn't easily identify a feeling, my T suggested giving it a name like Joe or Jane as if it were a stranger I had just met. Then I took the step of getting to know Joe or Jane (aka exploring the feeling). When it came time to apply anger release techniques, I could recognize the real feeling behind the name I assigned. This worked to help me sort complex emotions like feeling rage, fear, anticipation and relief all at once. I've worked through a lot of emotional abuse and trauma this way.

Thanks, this is interesting. I personally find that I don't have to verbally name or label feelings to be able to recognise each feeling separately. I have some holistic perception of each one.

How do you explore the Joe or Jane feelings?

What are the emotion release techniques like?

Some update about my little project too.... After I dared* to add my emotional control back into it all, I can safely say now that I've found more of myself again. And I just actually feel better having added the rational control back into it all. Like if I have a feeling that I didn't at all pay close attention to before (I ignored, quickly dismissed, etc some emotions before), I feel a lot better and it feels a lot more natural if I have my rational distance and control added "on top" of it. If that makes sense.... Yes it makes me more detached but I'm not ignoring those feelings, I keep observing them to see what they mean. I just no longer allow them to go all over the place, I no longer force myself to go into them as much as I'm at all able to. I instantly put the emotional control on top of the feeling/emotion and it does go away faster that way of course, but I do still observe it. Which eventually results in further conclusions of course. I just no longer let them get past that rational control. I no longer let them direct things. That was a disaster when I tried to allow that. I can only function right if I keep in control. But yeah I still want to observe them while keeping in control too.

I'm doing all this because I've been too burned with ignoring some of these feelings before. It worked ok until it no longer worked and I got burnt

And then there are those very bad and strong emotions and sensations (from my bad past + stress) that will come up anyway, and I do have to let those "go through" "all over" me while I do ofcourse keep that control too so it's not like I get overwhelmed by them. The point is, I try to not stop or avoid, but go through them while keeping in control.

So is this half mindfulness and half just me being me & liking control over my stuff?

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*: I dared to..... what I mean is I've been told it's not okay to have "walls" or be too "distant" or "not vulnerable enough" and whatnot. So I tried to change myself into this more emotionally open person, more open inside myself and to others, but that wasn't working. Finding myself again, makes me feel much better and I function better. My trying to not have "walls" and whatnot, it resulted in me not functioning at all. Overemotional (even if I didn't show it) and overly negative and taking to heart way too much whatever others would say or do. This just wasn't helping anyone lol

So it was very helpful for me to realise that I'm fine the way I am, and I already have my way of dealing with emotions and that I do not have to fundamentally change that. Even if some people don't like the way I deal with emotions, it works for me and it actually helps others too.

So yeah, I dared to go back to how I actually do things naturally. ....

Not "know" in the sense of coming up with a name for it and being prepared to pigeonhole it as this or that (or getting distracted when it doesn't see to fit into any familiar category). More like: notice what you're experiencing (including what you may be telling yourself about it). Something like, "That cloud... I don't have a name for shapes like that but one end reminds me of the back end of an elephant and the other, of Little Red Riding Hood's head with the hood up."

Perhaps the most important "ground rule" of meditation/mindfulness is to take what you get and not dismiss it or argue with it or make excuses for it.

Ah yeah, I think I get this then. I have those holistic sensations for emotions that - if they are completely unidentified - I can observe and put that information aside for later observation if they come up again in another situation or context.

So this is good for understanding myself and things in the long run and find a beneficial direction for myself.

I think after several times of observing an experience like that I eventually can feel ready to identify and find a category or draw a conclusion or do something about the thing. But I don't necessarily ever get that far, it depends.

Where I find the way to fully identify the stuff that's where emotional control and cognitive empathy really kick in for me. If no full recognition/identification then it's just generic emotional control that I've reintroduced for myself. That I think goes beyond mindfulness or this thread though lol

You mention not dismissing the observed feelings, and yeah that's what I've changed compared to how I used to be, and I think I'll keep that change. Not just immediately dismissing them... but keep them in mind more.

Joe was the name I gave to a complex and often conflicting set of emotions. Exploring "Joe" was like exploring any emotional state in therapy. It was in my second session ever that my therapist asked how I was feeling and I said I had so many feelings I couldn't name just one. I started crying and after a few minutes my therapist handed me a new box of tissues and asked me what I would call this set of overwhelming emotions. He was wanting to know if it was anger, sadness, etc. I couldn't handle the heaviness of my emotions in that moment and blurted out that I would call it Joe because I had no other name for it.

Releasing "Joe" was a long process. Identify and verbalize specific emotions. I was processing years of emotional and verbal abuse from my ex. Replacing my negative emotions with positive ones through physical action was huge. I volunteered at my local recycling center and was able to crush a number of boxes while verbalizing my emotions. I could throw plastic stuff and crush cans while naming all the events that caused "joe".
Color therapy and art therapy were effective for dealing with ptsd and triggered episodes and flashbacks. Art has become a very important part of my life in the last 10 years. Creativity is my go to coping mechanisms for dealing with things like stress, anxiety, loneliness, sadness, fear, and most negative emotions. I haven't felt consuming anger in a long time and haven't had a ptsd flashback in about a year.

I apologize if this comes off as a bragging about my therapy success or personal growth style post. I don't really know how to describe the processes from a clinical approach. The clinical process has never been that important to me. I've always just focused on my goal of stronger, healthier and happier and doing the work to get there. I'm proud of myself and how far I've come. Thanks for being curious about things.

**edit to Clarify- whenever I haven't been able to describe all the emotions I'm feeling in a therapy session, my T suggests using the Joe/Jane technique because it works for me. My current T was ok with using this method too. No idea if there is a psychology term for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etcetera1 So you did not have to take a long time first to observe the feelings in different situations, contexts to be able to recognise them nonverbally before naming them like that? Did you usually have feelings when asked what you're feeling, just not verbalised, not labelled, or consciously understood by yourself before doing therapy/practices like that?

I recognized anger in myself but not the other emotions. When given the list, I recognized that those other words were also emotions I was experiencing also. This whole thing started one day when my T asked me how I was feeling & all I could say was "UGH!!!!" She gave me a 5 page list of words & asked me to write down the ones I was feeling.....I wrote down 2 pages of the words that I was experiencing.

Thing was, I didn't have a bunch of situations. I had just moved 2100 miles away from my bad marriage & was sorting out who I was after 33 years in that marriage & all the financial damage he had done to my life (& was & is still doing even after my divorce) The only other thing I was recovering from a trauma that happened just before I left but it was over & done with.

I was finally living alone on my little farm in the country so I had lots of time to analyze the emotions once I found the words to describe them. They were kinda hidden inside until the words unlocked the door for me to understand what had been inside for so long. It helped me also in the long run, realize some of the emotions I experienced growing up & hadn't even known what was actually bothering me as a kid. It helped me understand myself so much better. I was doing so much healing & understanding myself once I was in my peaceful living conditions, removed from what was still causing anger & frustration but being 2100 miles away I could distance well from it & deal with those emotions only when I had to deal with the issues.

Also now when I feel something affect my peaceful balance in life I can take action to remove or solve the issue that is causing it where before, everything was causing an imbalance & I never knew exactly what was causing me to feel the emotions I was experiencing. Simplifying my life has helped

Thanks much for the details. It didn't come off as bragging at all, don't worry. I'm glad it's worked out so well for you.

Thanks a lot for the details. So just to clarify you were instantly able to write down all the words for 2 pages? Like you'd been feeling a lot of emotions already, they just were unrecognised and unnamed and unprocessed?

That makes sense, by situations I meant anything that's happened, even inside recalled memories.

I'm glad it's worked well for you. For me I was coming from the other direction, like, not feeling a lot, if I do feel something without having to block it out it feels like I've already got the majority of the work done. I don't take long to sort it out at that point. Though I do have to say that I still don't try to name small nuances, trying to do that hasn't helped me so far. I'm happy with just recognising/identifying it for the given situation, whether that's done verbally or nonverbally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etcetera1 Thanks a lot for the details. So just to clarify you were instantly able to write down all the words for 2 pages? Like you'd been feeling a lot of emotions already, they just were unrecognised and unnamed and unprocessed? That makes sense, by situations I meant anything that's happened, even inside recalled memories. I'm glad it's worked well for you. For me I was coming from the other direction, like, not feeling a lot, if I do feel something without having to block it out it feels like I've already got the majority of the work done. I don't take long to sort it out at that point. Though I do have to say that I still don't try to name small nuances, trying to do that hasn't helped me so far. I'm happy with just recognising/identifying it for the given situation, whether that's done verbally or nonverbally.

I think the anger I was feeling so overshadowed any other feelings I had that I didn't even realize I was or had felt them until I read the list & could identify that the words I read were ones I was feeling or had felt. My mom had died of cancer 2 years before I moved but the choices she made caused me to go through a trauma with the home care person I caught abusing her (financially & an OD on her pain meds) My mom made stupid choices & hurt me.
I was so angry at her, I never grieved her death. Lots of feelings associated with frustrations & hurts that were so overshadowed by anger even in my marriage I never even knew those were feelings that were going on at the same time.

For me the anger I was experiencing blocked out my knowledge of any other emotion going on because it was so overpowering. You know that saying "so angry I see red"? I thought it was just a saying till I experienced it with an interface I had with my now ex. I did experience fear with the home care person several times but my anger made me fight more than recognize the fear till after the situation was over & I started experiencing depersonalization issues. 15 years I have been away from it all & only some issues crop up but now my mind is finally in a state that solves issues rather than reacts to them in a dysfunctional way. My T was wonderful in integrating my past with my present & letting me know the feelings I had experienced were normal for the circumstances even with my dysfunctional parents & husband

But it was like some great immediate insight when you looked at the list? It instantly started working for you with the emotion words list?

I'm asking because I still find it hard to imagine how those lists help people. I understand they help many people but I can't really imagine how it works for them. Instant recognition and verbalisation of the feelings, and the feeling is not in a vacuum when you named the feeling, but a lot of other emotional context comes up right away? Is that right?

I'm glad you had a great therapist helping you with all that. I agree it's very important to be able to do all that, integrating the past with the present, and seeing the feelings, reactions as normal. I've had to do all that myself.

These lists don’t help a person on a micro level. They help in relating the points with them and then analysing them. Once a person is done analysing s/he is able to see the truth that seemed blocked due to negative emotions.

In my opinion, mindfulness is related to observing things attentively and analysing the situation without actually being involved in it.
Meditation is the best way of analysing things unbiasedly. It may be any situation, it is always good to give a pause, have a thought and then respond. This is a hard habit to develop. But one can start by sitting alone and thinking about the past situations and the possibilities s/he could have responded to.

When I see descriptions of mindfulness (not all descriptions of it are like this), I always keep thinking to myself, is mindfulness just about learning to do rational control over emotion?

Which would be kind of a seeming - and funny - contradiction, as rational control tends to get seen as the evil by people who think emotions >>>> rational detachment and distance and non-attachment and non-connection.

Instead you are constantly pushed to connect, connect, feel your emotions, sink in your emotions, all that. Distance is a bad thing, it gets called walls, and blah blah. So yeah, ironic.

Ah you mean the emotion word lists and emotion wheel stuff?

I think I would do better if I could have an example of this kind of analysis. Do you (or anyone else) mind providing specific examples of it? For some situation with a problematic emotion and its analysis in this manner.

Your mind is relatively calm now, rather than the feeling of being in crisis and having to deal with things immediately, falling back on instinctual reactions. In calm one can analyze, which in crisis there is no time for that.

Do I have that right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachyderm Your mind is relatively calm now, rather than the feeling of being in crisis and having to deal with things immediately, falling back on instinctual reactions. In calm one can analyze, which in crisis there is no time for that. Do I have that right?

EXACTLY
now I can figure out how I really feel about things (besides just anger) & I can figure out how to best solve any issues.

I had a person I knew from high school & college contact me a couple of years ago on FB messenger. Every time I interfaced with him, I came away feeling like my peace & balance in my life was being disrupted. I let it slide to start with. Then I kept noticing it & confronted & set my boundaries. Distanced without blocking at that point. He tried to reconnect & that unbalanced feeling returned so I just blocked him totally. Before I was aware of how I felt, I would just let stuff like that slide forever probably because my whole life was so unbalanced & couldn't always pinpoint the cause. Having a quiet, peaceful life really helps in analyzing the causes of the emotions experienced

You weren't asking me but let me add that instinctual reactions can work great and can even work better than the calm, mentally effortful analysis.

Did you eventually define what the unbalanced feeling was about?

I understand you trusted your gut feeling and then maybe you figured it out only later what it was about, when you were in a more calm, quiet space....? If you did figure it out, if you saw clearly as to what specifically caused it, I'd be interested. I am interested in general about this kind of stuff - feelings like this in relationships - is why I am asking, as I naturally learn best through examples. Thanks much if you can say more on it.