[ToeJam]

***TRIGGER WARNING*** - Deep reflection and talking about suicidal ideation/self harm... no specifics to the latter, but a warning just in case.

Frustrated as hell at the moment... I guess I've withdrawn a bit in the past few weeks with regards to talking about depression... or whatever the hell is going on with me... I've been functioning pretty well elsewhere on the board and posting in general social topics and the like... but I'm still fighting suicidal ideation hard. For obvious reasons (and in accordance to forum rules) I'm not going to mention method or other details... but I keep slipping into a sort of daze like state with the intrusive thought barraging me like pans being clashed together in a small room.

It is horrible... the area of my body that would take the damage tingle along with it and it just makes me want to scream. This is when I will sometimes deliberately self harm in a controlled spot as a deflection... a pained distraction to try and snap myself out of it. I know I should use other methods... breathing techniques for example... but in that state unless someone is there to tell me to do it (and I know that sounds pathetic), it doesn't even register that I should.

Called the Crisis team (short term measure in the UK) for the first time while in the early hours of yesterday (numb state)... and it was a massive step for me to take. When numb and getting barraged, I find it very very hard to talk... in fact talking can lead to panic (which happened when I called) and then I get the urge to uncontrolled self harm which can be excessive... a bit of a catch 22 position.

As talking leads to anxiety, the suicidal ideation diminishes (my rational slowly eases back and I can think about consequences - my wife, responsibilities etc)... but by then I'm in the middle of talking about it and then I feel like I'm attention seeking and that leads to self loathing which in turn can put me back in the trance like state I mentioned above (after the anxiety attack has eased off).... it's a fricken nightmare

On a side note and in relation to the above, while in hospital (was discharged just over 2 weeks back now I think) my named nurse picked up on me projecting judgements onto the people I talk to: that the self judgements I beat myself up with... I become convinced that those I talk to (while in the lovely midst of anxiety) are judging me in the same way... so it's no wonder that I'm reluctant to speak as I'm hyper sensitive to what ever is said back, unless it falls into 'what I allow' as genuine and logical to me.

Thankfully last night, the guy I talked to was really good and he stayed on the phone with me for half an hour while I tried to put into words (with long silences and stuttering) what I was experiencing... he put in little questions and asked if I'd taken my diazepam (I seldom take this as it's an as and when medication.... and as with the techniques above, it doesn't always register that I should)... told him no and he said he'd wait on the phone while I went to do so. Got me to do some of the breathing techniques and reassured me that I'd done the right thing by calling... that he understood the catch 22 position I mentioned above but it was so important to talk rather than suffer in silence.

Got me talking on some topics that were closer to home (like my dog, wife, hobbies etc) and it began to distract me to the point where we were actually talking normally... I'd snapped out of it. Was so grateful... thanked him and was able to slowly relax before I got myself geared up to go to bed.

But yeah... I am frustrated... this is a frequent problem I'm having and it's really draining my ability to fight. Seeing my T tomorrow so I might use a chunk of this to show her... I really WANT to get better... but there seems to be this side of me that is forever yelling 'GIVE UP'.... the metaphor of a rock being battered by ocean waves springs to mind

Not sure what anyone can really say to this... been wanting to just burst this out into written form... to detach it from me for a while... but the above is what I'm having to deal with and I just don't know how to whittle it down into manageable chunks that I can break down and overcome.

Hello ToeJam: I'm not going to offer any sage words of wisdom here. I do have some sense of where you're coming from. I've experienced much of this myself. I've said a number of times, to various professionals: if I'm rational enough to call someone... I'm probably not in real danger. But, if I'm in real danger, I probably won't be rational enough to call someone. But, also, whenever I do talk to someone, my rational façade automatically kicks in & I end up sounding perfectly reasonable. This then makes me feel completely silly. It can be a vicious circle.

[waterknob1234]

Hi ToeJam, I'm not sure what to say to make it better. But you did the right thing to call the crisis team. You did exactly the right thing so for that you are on track. I am glad you were able to talk to a supportive person who was helpful. I believe it would be good to go over all of this with your T. Depression is such a horrible thing. It bullies you, makes you hate yourself, then makes you want to hurt yourself, then the anxiety attacks and on the list goes. It's hard. Hang in there. You have had a hard time but you are going to make it. You are such a good person and we all care.

[ToeJam]

Thanks so much to both of you for the quick replies... kind of a little teary just reading them. I was really umming and arring over posting this at all... I don't want to trigger other people... I don't know sometimes if I'm even making any sense... so yeah, thank you for writing what you have.

Skeezyks: to the latter part of what you wrote... yeah, exactly... I really hate it. I find it hard to even talk to my wife and she gets so frustrated with me as all she wants to do is get me to talk and in essence help her to know how to help me.

Originally Posted by ToeJam

Skeezyks: to the latter part of what you wrote... yeah, exactly... I really hate it. I find it hard to even talk to my wife and she gets so frustrated with me as all she wants to do is get me to talk and in essence help her to know how to help me.

Yes... me also...

[Fuzzybear]

[Clara22]

I am sending you a big hug and also wanted to say that your posts are not triggering at all

[Rohag]

Originally Posted by ToeJam

...he understood the catch 22 position I mentioned above but it was so important to talk rather than suffer in silence.

Oh! He was good! Glad you got him on the other end.

Originally Posted by The Skeezyks

...whenever I do talk to someone, my rational façade automatically kicks in & I end up sounding perfectly reasonable.

Yes, this is an obstacle to conveying the gravity of one's situation.

ToeJam, I'm glad you found the internal power and focus to post this.

[Idiot17]

Nothing to say to ease any of this but I definitely relate to the catch 22 with self harming.....Hope you have an easier and more relaxed day today. (((((TJ))))

[Frankbtl]

Hi TJ,
You should be giving yourself serious credit for picking up that phone!! That takes real strength so well done!!
And attention seeking..........if you must call it attention (I'd call it support!! ) then you absolutely 1000% deserve that attention. You're not weak for needing it, you're strong for reaching for it
And just over two weeks from discharge...........I'm sure you've had plenty of challenges/things to get used to/things to adapt to in that time and now, and even things that seem small can be big..........and functioning pretty well at times well that's a real achievement/ a real start/definitely something to work with.
And the periods that haven't been going well.........you may still need support, and there's nothing at all wrong with that...........even if you need a lot of support, OK??!!
And keep going on trying the distraction.......breathing techniques.......maybe very gradually working on spotting the signs to get them in much earlier might help just a little???
And just a thought.........but continuing with/focusing on the breathing techniques if you start them with so much going on in your head........the feelings.....the urges........has to be so hard, if not impossible at times, so do you think you/your T could cut a CD with those on for you to be trying to listen to (on your headphones??) amongst the barrage................??
Anyway........just a thought...........

And again.....well done on picking up that phone!!!!!
And thanks for sharing with us, hope it's helping talking about what's going on for you, remember we're here for you



Alison

[Fuzzybear]

I agree with Clara, your posts aren't triggering at all

[ToeJam]

Thanks for all of the replies. Saw my T tonight and well, I don't know... it was not as productive as it has been in the past. I guess I am just feeling so confused and mixed up with where I'm at right now that I was probably coming across as frustrated, a bit stir crazy and angry at myself.

She asked when I was going to accept that I was ill... to which I replied that I'm finding it hard to accept 'illness' when I can't put a finger on what is going on... I'm diagnosed with depression and anxiety sure... but now there is a personality disorder on the cards that I have to wait weeks for a follow up... got an aspergers screening god knows when... she has identified trauma work that needs to be done.... nothing is simple... and it feels like it's going to take a long long time till I'm no longer hopping from one foot to the other wondering what the hell is going on.

Tangent I know but this reminds me of a recent topic on here about 'choosing to be depressed'.... pffft... not a chance + I'm getting additional stuff thrown at me and it starting to overwhelm.

When I got home, I spoke to my wife... told her that I was sorry for all of this... that I just want to get back to having some semblance of get up and go like I did in my 20's (I still struggled with mh... but I had some kind of reserve back then that fought on regardless without medical help as I had had enough of mh services while at Uni). She said that it was ok, to take things a day at a time... and that to look at it in the context of: a year ago, I was getting very little support and it was singled down to depression... sure these extra things are adding stress, but long term it's good they've been identified.

Sorry... long post and a bit of verbal diareeh... and I guess a rant with some self pity to throw into the mix

I just hate being locked up in my own head... but I guess I'm preaching to the choir on that one

[waterknob1234]

Hi ToeJam. I think sometimes it helps just to rant and vent and talk to people who understand what you are going through. I know I do plenty of ranting and venting on here when I feel overwhelmed. Then I usually apologize for doing so. We are here to listen and support in any way we are able.

I can relate to wishing you could bounce back like when we were in our 20's. I wish I could bounce back like when I was in my 30's. That's the other bad part of depression and mental health issues. It robs you of your energy for things that you want to do. It becomes a chore to just get out of bed in the morning.

It's hard because somewhere down the line I think we all just want a day without hurting, pain, sadness, anxiety, and panic. Anyhow, hang in there and take life one day at a time, one hour at a time if you have to. And keep posting to us. Hugs and best of wishes.

[Frankbtl]

Hi TJ, to hold back from the complete diatribe I could launch on.........I'll translate "She asked when I was going to accept that I was ill..." into: "When are you going to go easier on yourself/give yourself a break........."
But I know it must be really hard to have so many unanswered questions with assessments coming up.........but to a point it doesn't have to be so "scary"/"life changing", you already know some of the problems you're having, and some of the ways of dealing with these, or some of the things that don't help e.g. if it's Aspergers then you are already, in some ways, dealing with it e.g. by use of the headphones when you need (not to say that everyone with Aspergers need that, or that plenty of people without Aspergers don't find that helpful, just..........). And your wife (?) is spot on with the "but long term it's good they've been identified" because that may lead you to finding/using even more coping skills with...........which could give you even more "get up and go" when you have some more answers. So a positive thing in the long term??
But the actual depression/anxiety...........you're not going to "just accept" it anyway, right?? You're going to accept that sometimes it is there and your limitations with it, without "blaming yourself/beating your self up", but also keep the door open to what you may be able to do about/with/despite it.
And, I spot a contradiction with........"choosing to be depressed'.... pffft... not a chance" and "I spoke to my wife... told her that I was sorry for all of this".........a little less "guilt", hey TJ??!!
Alison

[TheOriginalMe]

Hmm, I so relate to the only diagnosed issue being depression. I've just started CBT with IAPTs and so far all we've done is screening and risk management. Needless to say the screening has thrown out all sorts of potential issues with no resources to follow them up.

The risk management thing has p*** me off a bit too, as I thought I was doing pretty well on that score and I feel like I'm being told I'm not. Perhaps they deliberately generated a faulty cognition to give themselves something they could actually work with.

Sometimes in the NHS merry-go-round we get lucky and find the right person, sounds like that happened with the crisis team the other night. Obvious advice really, but keep a record of what works and why and share it with your support network as appropriate. Experience is always better than theory, perhaps.

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by TheOriginalMe

Hmm, I so relate to the only diagnosed issue being depression. I've just started CBT with IAPTs and so far all we've done is screening and risk management. Needless to say the screening has thrown out all sorts of potential issues with no resources to follow them up.

The risk management thing has p*** me off a bit too, as I thought I was doing pretty well on that score and I feel like I'm being told I'm not. Perhaps they deliberately generated a faulty cognition to give themselves something they could actually work with.

Sometimes in the NHS merry-go-round we get lucky and find the right person, sounds like that happened with the crisis team the other night. Obvious advice really, but keep a record of what works and why and share it with your support network as appropriate. Experience is always better than theory, perhaps.

I read that and my heart really goes out to you (I think you know this anyway from posts I've made before)... It's about 9 months ago that I went private for therapy and that was after coming home... not moving from the sofa and the wife finally prodding out of me what had happened from the 1st session of my 4th iapt T (at our surgery the turn over was ridiculous... you'd see them once a month... and after the 3rd or 4th session they'd move else where so you had to start from scratch).

That weekend I had become more and more despondent and by the time I saw this T I was very very numb... monotone and battling suicidal thoughts. Lady asked me how much of a risk did I feel that I was at doing something and I told her that I didn't know... that as I spoke to her I just didn't care about anything... but it could dip an hour later.. 2 hours later... that evening.

She didn't seem that phased and I left feeling that as long as I had told her I wasn't about to top myself in her office, she was just covering her own arse.

As for keeping a note at the moment, yeah I do... kinda lucky in so much as the crisis team and other agencies have access to some file that is ongoing so, I think they are essentially on the same page.

I find out tomorrow what is happening with regards to a future care plan if there is one (as in I get a cpn or not)... so, a little anxious about that as I don't think I'm ready to be dropped back to my GP at this time... had a really bad anxiety attack in his office a week or so ago when I went to get a prescription renewal.

[TheOriginalMe]

Hey TJ, thanks. BUT what are we both doing? It is nearly 2am and we're online. I've just had an minor op and should be resting and you have a stressful day ahead. Good luck for later on. Try and get some rest, but if it helps keep the anxiety down then being on here is not so bad. Take care now.