[Taonuviel]

Well that was an entirely useless visit. Why didn't I just go to my PCP??? Because I'm an idiot, that's why - looking for something I'll never find. Wish I'd given in to the constant death drive urges on the way home... why didn't I? Again, because I'm an idiot.
I think I'll just ruin my life further and skip work tonight. I hate it, don't have the energy for it, feel like crap, and make almost nothing. Who cares if that kind of quitting will make ever finding another job that much harder? Can't really hurt at this rate... took ages to find this crappy job, nothing better's ever going to hire me. What's it matter, anyway? It's as I've thought for years - eventually, I'm going to end up dead by my own hand, sooner or later, what's it matter. Too bad I don't think I can convince myself to do it now.

[kimboboo]

((((((((((Tao)))))))))))

I'm sorry your visit didn't go well. What happened at the visit?

[Rapunzel]

I'm sorry. What happened? And you are not an idiot, even if things you thought would help you don't work out as well as you hoped.

<font color=orange>"Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2."</font color=orange>

[SeptemberMorn]

Even if things didn't work out the way you wanted them, seeking help is never a stupid thing to do, {{{{{{{{{{{{Tao}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Want to tell us what happened?




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[Taonuviel]

I dunno. It was nothing really. Went through a list of questions, almost automated:
- Depression? "a lot."
*Sleeping problems? "yes." *Change in appetite? "not sure, I don't eat much."
>Ever had an eating disorder? "purged in High School, never lost much weight. I just avoid food now."
*Have much energy? "no." *Have trouble concentrating? "yeah." *Ever have thoughts of harming yourself? "yes."
>Ever thought of ways to end your life? "yes." What kind of thoughts? "umm... about whatever might work, I guess." Have you ever acted on those thoughts? "2 1/2 years ago I tried over-dosing, not with nearly enough, though."
*Have you ever intentionally hurt yourself, such as cutting? "yes, I hurt myself sometimes, haven't cut for 2 1/2 years though."
- Anxiety/nervousness? "around people."
*Had problems giving speeches in school? "yes." *Ever joined in classroom discussion? "not really." *Are interviews difficult for you? "yeah, really difficult." *Do you feel self-conscious in public, and avoid such situations? "yes, but I don't really avoid them... I just don't go out much." *Do you have many friends you spend time with? "I hang out with the college group at my church some... kinda confused if they're friends... I've never had any before so when they say they're my friends I don't know what to think of it, though I guess they probably are." *Any boyfriends? "no, never."
- Obsessive behavior? "no."
- Manic episodes? "no."
- Ever been abuse in your home? "no."
- Are you in counselling now? "no, can't afford it, I talk with my pastor some."
>Could your parents help pay the co-pay? "no, they're against professionals, think I should just talk with my pastor."
*Have you ever been in counselling? "yes, lasted about 2 months, ended because my mom was against it, that's when I OD-ed."
And life questions, living where? how's the family get along? going to school? have a job?
Ended with saying he'd write my PCP with a recommendation to prescribe Lexapro for depression and social anxiety. Lasted less than half and hour.
It was like he decided I'm just a boring, shy, depressed girl, and that's the end of it. Apparently unconcerned whether or not I'm currently suicidal.
It was an idiotic thing for me to do. Should have just gone to my PCP and asked for a prescription of Paxil and gotten the same results. Don't know what I was hoping for... what else would he have done?
It's pointless, should've never tried it. Knew better, nothing's going to help. Not the medicine, either. That'll just give me some very good OD material to consider. Shouldn't even care anymore.

[SeptemberMorn]

Tao, is sounds like he was just gathering information so he would know how to proceed. I always hated those questions and always left feeling empty, like I didn't make any kind of impression on the therapist. But when I decided to stick it out, we built a good relationship. This happened about three times with three different therapists.

Something all of us need to learn is to speak out and state our needs. We also need to remember that these guys are trained in dealing with mentally ill people and nothing much surprises them. They don't expect us to know just how to act or just how to say things properly. If the best you can muster, when your needs aren't met is "Hey, dammit! You haven't helped me any today! What good are you??" they can work with that. Really, they can. You might get a lesson in learning how to ask that your needs be met, but I'll bet you'll get his attention, too!

I think you're very courageous in reaching out for help! Please don't give up! {{{{{{{{{Tao}}}}}}}}}




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[Taonuviel]

I don't think I'm going back... nothing was mentioned of it... I think the idea is I should get the prescription from my PCP and see a counselor. Should've just gone to my PCP in the first place, seeing this pdoc was just a useless complication. It's not like anything's going to help, anyway. I don't know why I'm still dragging through this day, wish I could sleep through it but I hate feeling like a slug. I'm sick of it all, it's so pointless.

[SeptemberMorn]

Tao, I've been where you are in the depression as well as feeling that there isn't any real help out there and getting so dang frustrated with therapists. But I'm passed that now. I stuck with it and got the help I needed and improved a great deal. Nothing says you won't have any relapses, which I'm going through right now, but I'll have enough of it real soon and start putting to work all the things I learned. Soon, I'll get over this hump in the road and feel good again. You have that hope, too. No, it will be a certainty, but only if you are willing to work through the rough spots. All of us here are willing to support you and to encourage you, but none of us has the power or the will to "make" you do it for yourself. That's something you need to do on your own, but you don't have to do it alone. That's why you joined this site, right? For help and support? We're here for you! {{{{{{{{{{{Tao}}}}}}}}}}}}}




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[dexter]

>> It's not like anything's going to help, anyway.

Just a reminder, that's the viewpoint of depression, not of reality. Everyone with depression thinks there is no hope of ever feeling better. Those that stick with treatment learn otherwise.

It is worth continuing the fight.

------------------------------------
--http://www.idexter.com

[Taonuviel]

Thanks you guys...
I dunno what to do at this point. I feel very dangerous, and while I try letting people know this and asking for help in more or less subtle or obvious ways, they don't seem to get it. They realize I've been close to suicide recently, but it doesn't seem to get through to them that I continue to go back and forth with it, or how about that asking for help is more of a pattern out of fear right after being suicidal - not so much before or during. What's that mean? I may not feel I can ask for help at the time I'm suicidal.
I'm contemplating drastic measures... feels like I'm going to have to do something like overdose then call for help, or at least leave large quantities of pills/other lethal items where someone will see them, or slice up my arms, for anyone to realize I really might be getting bad enough I'd kill myself. Maybe I should start at the end and work my way up. Not sure how else to say it. Telling anyone else, something like checking myself into the hospital, will only look like a search for attention at this point. Feels like actions are the only things that might get the point across.
*I'm hoping this doesn't go too far. I'm hoping it won't be considered a suicide post... because I'm not talking about commiting suicide... just about making it look like I'm trying to or near an attempt... I'm really sorry if it's too much*

[dexter]

The day I went into the hospital, ALL DAY the previous day things were so bad that I was definitely going to put my plan into action that evening. I was kind of fishing around for help though. I called a friend and let him know I was in trouble and asked if he could visit. He said he would come by that afternoon, but he never did. That almost broke me.

But once my mind cleared I realized that although from my point of view I got on the phone very sternly and said "I'm feeling really badly, I think I may be in danger, and I don't think I should be alone... can you come over?" What I really said was "Hey, how ya doin', I'm alone today, think you might be able to drop by, if you have the time, if it wouldn't be out of your way..."

What we think we are saying and what other people is ALWAYS an issue, it's the nature of humanity and communication... but when we are depressed it is multiplied by a thousand because we intentionally hide our true thoughts, we set "tests" for other people to see if we are "loved" (and we set up those tests to ensure failure), and no matter what the result of the communication we see it in the most negative light possible.

The very good thing here is that you recognize that you need to call out for help. And you recognize that your instinct for calling that attention to make people how bad off you really are is the WORST POSSIBLE WAY to do it. If you do that then you truly are doing it only for attention, and although your motives are good, other people won't make that distinction.

When you get the urge to do that why don't you call one of those people instead, make sure you state specifically how bad off you feel and exactly what you would like from them, and if necessary tell them everything that you have talked about here. Let them know specifically that you are thinking of hurting yourself, that you know you don't want to, but that you can't think of anything else to do.

If the first person you call is not responsive, call another... find someone to help.

------------------------------------
--http://www.idexter.com

[Rapunzel]

I know what you mean. I got progressively worse (in actions, not necessarily in terms of how I felt) over a period of at least 20 years before I felt like anyone took me seriously. I started with trying to tell someone/ask for help. Crying, not eating, head banging and various (non-cutting) SI methods failed to get the point across. Eventually it progressed to suicidal gestures (involving cutting) and passive suicide attempts such as wandering around dark streets in black clothes wishing to be hit by a car or something. It still wasn't believed for a number of years.

It really is a failing in the system or something - but unless you are an adult with your own money to spend and the ability to advocate for yourself, it is very hard to get effective treatment until there is some drastic evidence that it is necessary. Maybe it would be of some comfort for you to know that this problem is being recognized, and there is research in progress to demonstrate the need and effectiveness of early intervention to prevent depression in at risk children and teens and to treat it earlier. Where I see difficulty is in how this early intervention is to be funded. Yes, it costs less to treat depression early or to prevent it than it does to treat it after it has become more severe, but kids don't have those resources and too many parents deny that their kids could have a problem. The only way I can see for it to work would be to go through the schools.

There are reasons why people like us slip through the cracks. One is the lack of support from parents; even discouragement and interference. Another thing is just that we seem to have it all together. Not acting out or being a problem, managing to handle the demands of school and work. Eventually it reaches a breaking point, but up until then, it just doesn't look that bad to people who can't get inside your head and feel what you feel.

What can you do about it? The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but if you complain too much to the wrong people they decide that you must have Borderline Personality Disorder, and somehow they think that gives them an excuse not to listen. So find someone who will listen to you and advocate for you, like your pastor, and tell them how bad it is and what will happen if you are not taken seriously. Make it clear that it isn't a threat - it is something you are doing your best not to act on, but might not be able to keep in check without some help. Get this person to step in and help you explain what is going on to your parents, to care providers who miss the point, wherever you don't be able to get it across on your own. Once you have established a relationship with a therapist or somebody, and they understand and are helping, then things start to get better. It takes a lot of effort on your part too - nobody can make you better; all anyone can do is guide you. Sometimes it takes hitting bottom before you are able to push off and start really getting better.

I hope that some of this is helpful to you.

<font color=orange>"Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2."</font color=orange>

[SeptemberMorn]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Tao}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Only YOU know how bad you really are and how badly you really need help. I still think WORDS are our best defense. If you think you really need the help, call the Suicide Hotline and simply say "I AM GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE IF I DON'T GET HELP <font color=red>RIGHT NOW!!</font color=red>" It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. Screw'em!! Get the help you need and everyone else be damned! We here are behind you all the way and don't judge. We all know too well how you feel. {{{{{{{{{{Tao}}}}}}}}}}}






<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[(JD)]

Tau, I'm sorry you are feeling so low. Actually, it's a good thing that the doctor thinks you need Lexapro, and that your pdoc can handle the prescribing! You won't have to return to THAT doctor again!

Lexapro will help you, I'm pretty sure. It's a good drug.

IF you really feel like you can't wait, then don't do anything to yourself, but, like the others said, ASK for help. I mean, call your pdoc and say, I'm not sure I can even wait for the medicine to go to work or something like that. This is important enough to call your pdoc NOW, on call, or emergency basis or whatever! Your pdoc doesn't want you to suffer, they went into medicine to help prevent suffering, remember?

You would only be asking them to do what they do: HELP!

It wasn't dumb, going to that doctor. Now your pdoc has a reference to be guided by... and can also refer you to a clinical psychologist or counselor, as they see fit.

Keep asking for help make an ASK of yourself till someone listens!

<font color=blue> meditation is a true way to connect to the Source </font color=blue>

[Taonuviel]

Well, I'm feeling a little better now, spent some time baking on my roof... nice place to sit, nice out. Not sure it's a good thing to feel better... I tend to forget what's wrong if my mood's a little better, which makes it a lot harder to seek help, which I obviously still need seeing as how I'll soon enough be just as bad again. But it's nice to feel a little less turmoil inside.
I guess I'm not going to do anything dumb for now. In this moment of clarity, my plan is to *try* talking with my pastor soon, probably about seeing a professional counselor again. I'll see him tomorrow... probably too much to hope to talk with him then... but maybe he'll be able to give me a day next week we can. And Monday I'll call my PCP's office about that prescription.
Of course, I know better than to think it's going to work out perfectly... or well, probably. And I know that when I once again feel suicidal I likely won't be making any calls, I'll just go in a circle of wanting to call but not doing it and feeling horrible because I don't. And should I call, I'll neglect to say I'm suicidal, or downplay it if it's a suicide line, mostly because I'll lose my thoughts at that moment. Yeah, these are just the realities of my life and how I "work."
At least I know I'd be calling someone if I were actually about to commit suicide. That's in my plan... I have this old cell phone with no service, but those always work for 911, so I figure I'd give it a try, talk to someone, and still have all my options intact. It'd be anonymous, because even if they tracked it to my family I could say I'd thrown it out - if I decided to walk away from the plan. Or I could let them help me, or go through with it, feels pretty "safe."

[dexter]

I understand that cycle of "I feel better now so I'll let it slide" and then going back to needing help and not being able to seek it.

Maybe at those times when you are feeling bad, in addition to whatever you do to help yourself, also write yourself a note about how bad things can get... and when you feel a little better, refer to that note and use it for inspiration to seek deeper help at those times when it may be easier for you to get out.

I do that as I really isolate myself seriously when I am depressed... so if I have a moment with a little more clarity I will force myself to make a doc appt or at least put "make a doc appt!" on my to do list so that I will go through with it and not get "trapped" between the waxing and the waning.

------------------------------------
--http://www.idexter.com