[MtnTime2896]

Is it a conscious decision accompanied by a selfish agenda? Or is it actually just the sickness finally killing us?

Like, is it that we truly don't care what happens after we die to the people we love?

Is it that we care, we'll always care, but the fact remains that we're sick and hurting and feel as though there's truly no hope to ever get better?

Is it actually selfish if you really believe that the only way to get better is through death so that the people around you will heal, as well? If it is selfish, does that even matter? I mean, if you live for everyone else but yourself, you just delivering yourself to depressions hands, yet again. Maybe a little "selfishness" is justified here. Maybe we're sick and hurting and just need to stop being in so much pain.

[DechanDawa]

I spent a month calling crisis hotlines and talking to people about these issues. Some people on hotlines just want to help you through the immediate crisis...but others actually take the time to discuss these things you have brought up here.

I think when you can problem solve a little bit and find even a small amount of relief you may want to take suicidal ideation off the table. That's what I did. Now I have to find other options because I have removed that option.

You will never find the answers to some of your questions because they are metaphysical questions. But the asking of them is important for you now.

What hotlines did I use? Honestly, I just went online and called one after another that was listed until I found a few I preferred. I also called a local crisis center once or twice a week.

I hate to confess this but I did study and research about a lot of famous people who committed suicide. I found out that individual motivations are different.

But mostly it is about escaping pain. What else?

If you can start to focus your attention on how you can relieve your pain you may find you care less about suicidal Ideation or suicidal thoughts.

The crisis hotline people gave me immediate coping skills to practice. In this way I found that I could actually manage suicidal ideation. I even started a new job while having a lot of suicidal ideation.

I finally took it completely off the table...as of yesterday! So...24 hours of not having to think about it. I feel such relief. Suicidal thoughts are scary and depressing. At first it took some effort but not so much now. Remember, also, I spent a month talking to many, many counselors and volunteers on crisis hotlines.

I hope this helps, dear one. No one could possibly understand how painful your situation is without having been there.

Your statement that maybe we are just hurting and need the pain to stop...is the core message.

If others knew the depths of our pain they would try to help. Why don't they help?

Because it takes experience and special skills to deal with all the complexities of suicidal ideation. It was a relief to talk to crisis hotline people because one can talk openly and honestly.

[Artchic528]

Originally Posted by Só leigheas

Is it a conscious decision accompanied by a selfish agenda? Or is it actually just the sickness finally killing us?

Like, is it that we truly don't care what happens after we die to the people we love?

Is it that we care, we'll always care, but the fact remains that we're sick and hurting and feel as though there's truly no hope to ever get better?

Is it actually selfish if you really believe that the only way to get better is through death so that the people around you will heal, as well? If it is selfish, does that even matter? I mean, if you live for everyone else but yourself, you just delivering yourself to depressions hands, yet again. Maybe a little "selfishness" is justified here. Maybe we're sick and hurting and just need to stop being in so much pain.

You say that living for everyone else is delivering you into depressions hands, but by that same logic, so is taking one's own life. To truly escape from depression, one must not consider living as doing it for everyone else, but doing it for themselves. With life there is hope. Always hope. The funny thing about hope is that it's hard to kill. Sure, it's dwindled down to the tiniest of smoldering embers for some folks, but it's still there, still burning away in some corner of their mind and soul. They just need to stop thinking about hurting so much, and start thinking about hope. Granted, that's a very hard thing to do. I completely understand, but one needs to put mind over matter and grit their teeth. It can be done.

With death, there is no hope. You can't get a do-over. Once you've died, there's no going back. It's so final and complete it's depressing. It's not a release, or an end, but the beginning of suffering for others who have been in your life. Taking one's own life IS a selfish act, and will only spread the pain and suffering further. The pain hasn't gone away, but transferred to another body. Would you so selfishly give another person pain and suffering over yourself?

[MtnTime2896]

"Would you so selfishly give another person pain and suffering over yourself?"

That's why I haven't done it. I'm just tired. It isn't just depression that's making me tired, either. The other issues in my head, this war I've been in for so long, it's exhausted me.

[Artchic528]

Originally Posted by Só leigheas

"Would you so selfishly give another person pain and suffering over yourself?"

That's why I haven't done it. I'm just tired. It isn't just depression that's making me tired, either. The other issues in my head, this war I've been in for so long, it's exhausted me.

What you need to do is to talk to a professional about how tired and exhausted your "head issues" and depression are making you. I'm not saying to go IP, mostly because all they do is drug you up the wahzoo there. Maybe write down, in as much detail as you can, all that you are feeling, doing, and whatnot in a journal, then present the journal to a T so that they can help you figure out how to best go from there and treat you.

I sometimes find that when I'm at a therapists office, I am compelled to say that everything's fine, when I'm truly struggling the most. It's scary being open and honest with a healthcare provider, but it feels so much better when all is said and done and you are feeling better from proper help.

[pillid12]

It is for the best to seek professional help. Loneliness and depression are the main reasons on why a person would feel the way you did. What you ought to do is to seek attention and affection from your family. Familial love is one the greatest form of love. Knowing that there are people who still care for you will greatly improve your condition and the feeling of being alone.

[little turtle]

some suicides are preventable....certain physical problems in your body can end in suicide...biology needs to be considered along with the psychological...

[Clara22]

Originally Posted by Só leigheas

Is it a conscious decision accompanied by a selfish agenda? Or is it actually just the sickness finally killing us?

Like, is it that we truly don't care what happens after we die to the people we love?

Is it that we care, we'll always care, but the fact remains that we're sick and hurting and feel as though there's truly no hope to ever get better?

Is it actually selfish if you really believe that the only way to get better is through death so that the people around you will heal, as well? If it is selfish, does that even matter? I mean, if you live for everyone else but yourself, you just delivering yourself to depressions hands, yet again. Maybe a little "selfishness" is justified here. Maybe we're sick and hurting and just need to stop being in so much pain.

To me, it is not selfish. It is not selfish at all. I am convinced we come equipped with a preservation instinct. So, we need a very strong opposite force to drive us to death. I think we are in total pain, that is why we think of suicide

[destroyedlife]

I totally disagree!!! If you couldn't chose if you wanted to be born, you just FU*KING can and have all rights to terminate your own life!!! You're not selfish! They are selfish! They want you to be here so THEY CAN BE HAPPY they don't give a fuc* about you! All... Just... Lies!!! If I would be ruler of the world I would put sodium pentobarbital in supermarket for dirty cheap price! Who wants to die has absolutely every right to do so and nobody and no one can deny him that right! Not even God if he really exist (fake human self perservation... You'll burn in hell if you do suicide! So you just suffer more on this world!) They actally really prohibit euthanasia? What retards! It should be like milk. Available to anyone. Strongest survive, weaker die. Such is nature. Cruel. Humans are just bunch of animals that think are intelligent. So actually I would be hospitalized, against my will if I just vocate word suicide! **** them and **** their Hypocrates oath. I know more than any of them. It's honor and bravery to die by suicide. Not by God's determined time and His will! Fuc* that!

[Artchic528]

It was always considered very cowardly to stop fighting the good fight when you still had fight left in you. A warrior's honor is to fight till he draws his last breath, as is all of our honors. We are warriors in the war on depression and we must fight as long as we draw breath, no matter how weary, tired, or wounded we get. It is our honor as warriors.

[mar33]

The people around you don't heal if you die. They chip away a little bit. It could break them further.

A friend of mine from school recently committed suicide and he thought he was hurting his family. Truthfully, his family were so sad when we saw them and it surprised me. None of them were angry, they just all wanted to find something they could've done differently. After all the pain he may have caused them in life, after he died it was amplified. A person doesn't heal from that. They hurt.

As for the pain you're in, suicide will permanently eliminate the possibility of it ever getting better. Like a permanent end of the road when all you needed was a shovel to clear away the snow. I understand your questions completely, because I've felt them. But I also know that however appealing it may become, death is not freedom.

Good luck in hard times

[MommaD]

That's why I swear every person who's ever thought about suicide while suffering like we do and hasn't done it deserves a damn medal. We fight a battle every day, every damn day, sometimes for years, sometimes for decades. What kind of courage and determination does that take??? Incredible, that's what kind.
Sons heroes carry a gun. Some Heroes carry a burden that can't be seen.
Medal of Valor to you, So Leigheas, and to all who have looked that demon in the eye and said "not today"

So Leigheas....

I know that this burden is....huge. But your words here matter to people and your kindness has made a difference.

I wanted to thank you and tell you that, like any illness, the pain can be alleviated sometimes and then it's very sweet...

[sugarbeeMe]

This may be odd. I made a promise to myself long ago that I would never commit suicide. I came the closest last year when medicine was messed up. I was exhausted and broken. When they asked me, are you going to hurt yourself? I said that I have promised myself not to do that but if I didn't have that promise made- I would be at that point. Suicide haunted me, stalked me. That experience gave me a whole new understanding and compassion for people who died by suicide before me. My mother tried and I was heart broken.
Now I know the torturous hell that causes suicide. it is selfish to commit suicide, but depression is such a cruel place to be stuck.

[bornunderabadsign]

I'm not an advocate of suicide but how people perceive suicide is tied very closely to their cultural beliefs. In the west especially the Christians in the west believe that suicide is the ultimate slap in the face to God. Many Christians believe that by killing yourself you are buying a ticket to the furnace. There are other cultures that suicide is considered a noble thing or at the very least a way to regain ones honor. What is funny is that even in the West where suicide is considered a very bad thing to die so that other might live is considered honorable even though the hero is making the decision to die.

[Emotionally Dead]

I just wanted to say that I don't think suicide is "selfish". It's a very sad thing, and I always wish that when I hear of those tragedies I could have spoke to them first and maybe even showed them that someone does care. Having been in that dark place before, I can relate somewhat to what they're going through.

The thing is, I would say that many people who commit suicide do so with the feeling that no one cares about them. If you don't think anyone cares about you, then you don't think you're hurting anyone by ending it.

Still, death is a scary thing to me. No one really knows what happens. We can have our own beliefs but we can't know for sure. You want to end the pain, but what is left beyond this life is so unknown. We should all try to live to live. You never know what life will bring us, which is why we should try to find things that make us happy and live our lives gaining experiences along the way.

I never want anyone to do something so final, especially when it isn't their time to. But at the same time I can't blame them because I don't know what they're feeling or what is going on in their lives. Plus, it isn't only an emotional pain people are going through either, which is why I just don't think it is right to judge people on that decision.

Originally Posted by destroyedlife

I totally disagree!!! If you couldn't chose if you wanted to be born, you just FU*KING can and have all rights to terminate your own life!!! You're not selfish! They are selfish! They want you to be here so THEY CAN BE HAPPY they don't give a fuc* about you! All... Just... Lies!!! If I would be ruler of the world I would put sodium pentobarbital in supermarket for dirty cheap price! Who wants to die has absolutely every right to do so and nobody and no one can deny him that right! Not even God if he really exist (fake human self perservation... You'll burn in hell if you do suicide! So you just suffer more on this world!) They actally really prohibit euthanasia? What retards! It should be like milk. Available to anyone. Strongest survive, weaker die. Such is nature. Cruel. Humans are just bunch of animals that think are intelligent. So actually I would be hospitalized, against my will if I just vocate word suicide! **** them and **** their Hypocrates oath. I know more than any of them. It's honor and bravery to die by suicide. Not by God's determined time and His will! Fuc* that!

I am sorry you sound so hopeless. I understand people why people think euthanasia should be legal but it should never be automatic/easy. I nearly died from an attempt and am really grateful that the doctors saved me. Sometimes people can be impulsive and take actions they later regret. But I do understand how you feel and this is a great place to talk about it. I just wanted to let you know that some of us are glad that people stepped in when we tried to kill ourselves and I know there are many here who wish they weren't saved......

[passionfruit3]

I don't think it's selfish it's selfish for people to want to keep people alive on this planet for there own personal gain.people die everyday you try to make suicide different cause they did it themselves wrong some people are terminal. Which is why even the therapist throws in the towel they are empty shells just walking around like zombies.if euthanasia was legal for the hopeless it would be a lot less traumatic as opposed to someone overdosing or harming themselves and you finding there body..depression is essentially cancer and it can become terminal you want to believe there's hope for them maybe but some people no all they are is empty shells the turtle died a long time ago they will keep trying and eventually they will do exactly what they set out to do.lockmthem up put them in a long term facility cause that's all you can do but they
Lloyd still be more vacant then ever and possibly more messed up when they come out cause long terms are known for abuse

[Yellow Knight]

I wouldn't wish this disease on anyone. For each one person who claims their own life, that is any number of people who now have to deal with loss. Loss can throw people into depression, hell my depression is due to loss, and those people are all still alive and I have completely made up with them.

I'd prefer if depression didn't exist in the world, you can't eradicate something by inflicting it on more people.

[destroyedlife]

Originally Posted by passionfruit3

I don't think it's selfish it's selfish for people to want to keep people alive on this planet for there own personal gain.people die everyday you try to make suicide different cause they did it themselves wrong some people are terminal. Which is why even the therapist throws in the towel they are empty shells just walking around like zombies.if euthanasia was legal for the hopeless it would be a lot less traumatic as opposed to someone overdosing or harming themselves and you finding there body..depression is essentially cancer and it can become terminal you want to believe there's hope for them maybe but some people no all they are is empty shells the turtle died a long time ago they will keep trying and eventually they will do exactly what they set out to do.lockmthem up put them in a long term facility cause that's all you can do but they
Lloyd still be more vacant then ever and possibly more messed up when they come out cause long terms are known for abuse

I agree! 100% they can lock me up! They can sedate me! They can restrain me! They can hold me 5 years locked up! But the CAN'T prevent suicide! What someone plans he really does that! Yeah, instead of making it easier to die they let people throw off the building, get slit by train, hang themselves (my childhood friend) or slit their veins! I luckily know what's the best and even euphoric way to die, to do a suicide. So good that you actually aren't afraid of dying! Not just one method, several of them. I studied suicide and methods several hundreds of hours. Years and years... And honestly, although not as cheap as it would be by euthanasia by doctor (or if they think they'll have blood on their hands, give it to patient), it is still great way to go. Depression, schizophrenia is serious illness and at some point it's same as metastasized cancer! It's not worth living considering pain! I am pro-suicide! Pro-choice! We all have pain limits, as someone would go for suicide much earlier than other, someone would never do it anyway. It's not a shame, you won't burn in hell and after all it's your choice. I am not afraid of death. I just wish to experience some of things life has to offer still. Like true love. Or firearms shooting. Or game hunting... I want still to try to make an impact in society. Even by writing a book! I am really fuc*ed up psychically. I was so near suicide last year and this... But I don't want some lame stuff non-lethal that mostly women choose. I like next attempt not to be attempt, but success. So I know what can I choose as method of ending life. But until I go beyond bottom, I won't do it. Eventually I will succumb. And ladies and ppl... don't be afraid of death... I have very interesting article about death. It changed my mindset completely! I am afraid only of agony and pain!

Here's the link: https://www.innerpeacenow.com/inner-...-fear-of-death

Just a note: I am not encouraging anyone to commit suicide. I just have belief that it's that and only that persons decision. No matter the consequences for family, or either the world! Watch this also:

I am changing your life by linking you this, in fact... It's mind blowing stuff! So really know, that every action you take... Even the date you commit suicide changes the future. Butterfly Effect.

Enjoy!

[passionfruit3]

Surprisingly I'm getting better and not as suicidal as suicidal as I was but there will always be setbacks I'm aware of then all bets are off on living in like the article written we really don't know anything about death but what we heard which makes it so scary.its like it was did purposefully to prevent people from ever being curious cause death is taboo to people I'd never heard of dying psychologically and letting your mind just stop pondering about what death really is and just let it be ..it's actually intresting.
I don't know when I'll attempt.ive had hundreds so I'm hoping I won't have to and that this means I quit for good. I'm afraid someone close to me will die though and set me back which was part of the reason I wanted to get off this awful planet before my family starts dying and before the world ends.but they keep saving me.i have plans to i want to accomplish before suicide and no not kids though I do want a baby just not time .I want to get a book published and I want to fall in love and prove that it still exist. It's terrible are country not legalizing suicide but in one country they do I'll pm you were at just not here don't want post removed

"But I don't want some lame stuff non-lethal that mostly women choose."

I respect your opinion and free will. This discussion is interesting

Possible trigger:

but the immature daredevil side of me has to say that my attempt was not like that and because of that I will likely suffer from aggravating chronic pain for the rest of my life. I only felt an adrenaline rush for a second or two and because of the blessing of "shock", there was no pain until I was revived and conscious on a later date. Then the pain was excruciating. I could not move, talk, or do anything. I was helpless and in ICU. I did not even consider "pain" when I did it. I had to be out of my mind not to even consider things like this! It was temporary madness and I wish someone had a glimpse into my crazy thoughts before I attempted but I kept many things to myself so that I would be free to act on these crazy thoughts should I ever wish to.

I looked at your links. At times in my life, I have read Buddhist teachings and meditated. I should fear death because I attended a fire and brimstone church during my youth but despite that, have not had much of a fear of death for many years. Funny, when I was revived, I thought maybe there is a God after all because it's a miracle I'm here. And maybe I wouldn't have gotten so hopeless if I had just believed and obeyed many of the things I had learned in church. I certainly believe in the butterfly effect.

Possible trigger:

You see, in my madness, I thought my $500,000.00 life insurance policy would have a good effect on my family. I have a Health, Life and Annuity insurance license in my state and had studied the laws and my policy thoroughly. More madness. But maybe not so mad--sometimes I think that money helps us accomplish so much that maybe there is merit behind this whole idea, not madness! Yes, the butterfly effect is a very unpredictable thing.

So I only thought of one good effect but there would have been many more negative effects plus I can now he available to help in many other ways for years to come. Someone in my family could have a crisis which is best handled with patience and face to face time, etc. Remember, sometimes when we are suicidal, we mistakenly believe that the world would be a better place without us. It might be faulty thinking....

[destroyedlife]

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

"But I don't want some lame stuff non-lethal that mostly women choose."

I respect your opinion and free will. This discussion is interesting

Possible trigger:

but the immature daredevil side of me has to say that my attempt was not like that and because of that I will likely suffer from aggravating chronic pain for the rest of my life. I only felt an adrenaline rush for a second or two and because of the blessing of "shock", there was no pain until I was revived and conscious on a later date. Then the pain was excruciating. I could not move, talk, or do anything. I was helpless and in ICU. I did not even consider "pain" when I did it. I had to be out of my mind not to even consider things like this! It was temporary madness and I wish someone had a glimpse into my crazy thoughts before I attempted but I kept many things to myself so that I would be free to act on these crazy thoughts should I ever wish to.

Hello Hopingtrying, I know I am maybe rude to do this, but can you PM me what your attempt was? It sounds that you really didn't care about pain and possible consequences. I can just imagine what you did... It sounds... Ouch... really. I am neither on the blowing my head with shotgun side neither on OD with benzos. I am in the middle. Sure death, no pain. But I never attempt any suicide since 5 years or so ago, since I know when I do that with this method it is really 100% sure. So, I want to pi*s blood before I decide to take my own life. I mean, metaphorically. I do not encourage anybody for suicide, but I am interested in your case.

As for Butterfly Effect, who knows? If you did die, mankind would went to World War III with fatal consequences. You never know! There was even sci-fi movie about that. Really strong brain exercise!

I battled suicidality for many years. In retrospect, I know when I made attempts, my thinking was "selfish." I don't mean that in an insulting or demeaning way -- just in a definitive sort of way. When I was considering suicide, my only focus was on myself, my suffering, my need to escape. Lots of "my's." It is what it is.

I took suicide off the table six years ago when my sister died. My sister had battled cancer multiple times in her life, and that last time she didn't win. Even though we knew her death was probably coming, losing her was devastating. Even though she died from "natural" causes, her death left a hole and pain that never really has gone away. As I watched my parents and my husband and my children weep and mourn and suffer from grief, I realized my life DOES impact those around me. People care about me and love me, and there is no way I could leave this earth, naturally or at my own hand, that would be anything but devastating for the people I care about.

Within a few years time, I lost two more people to suicide. The devastating effects of that kind of death on those that remain is even worse. I won't do that to the people I love. I won't leave them with the legacy of suicide. I won't do that to my parents. I won't do that to my husband. I certainly won't do that to my children.

Suicide is not an option for me any longer. It was amazing how things changed for me when I pulled suicide off my menu. It forced me to change how I handle stressors in my life. It forced me to make changes in my life that were healthier for me psychologically. It forced me to use the healthy coping skills I had been taught but that I had not always used because somehow defaulting to suicide as an option had become, ironically, easier and habitual. It does take a determined change in thinking and habit, but it is possible to take suicide off the menu and find different ways to cope with depression and anxiety. After years of multiple hospitalizations, I've been stable for nearly three years now. I hope things stay that way for me, and I honestly don't foresee that I will ever be in a place again where I put suicide back on the table.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by MommaD

That's why I swear every person who's ever thought about suicide while suffering like we do and hasn't done it deserves a damn medal. We fight a battle every day, every damn day, sometimes for years, sometimes for decades. What kind of courage and determination does that take??? Incredible, that's what kind.
Sons heroes carry a gun. Some Heroes carry a burden that can't be seen.
Medal of Valor to you, So Leigheas, and to all who have looked that demon in the eye and said "not today"