I have a question

If someone is sick, mentally ill, and the doctor knows that your suicidal but refuses to admit that; is he then responsible to protect you?? I ask this because here I am going in to see my doctor on a regular basis. He knows what I am doing and has said himself that I will die. But he said that its my choice to make. I told him today its just not that simple. There is a small part of me that wants to say, "enough of this bull sh@#$, I am going to fight you because I am a survivor." But its small. These risks that are involved are not enough for me to take this small part of me that wants the fight.
So my doctor that I trust, knows what my problem is, I have told him how I feel. I have told him with all honesty, but he is mad at me. I feel that he should put his own feelings aside and look at it like a suicidal issue.
Am I wrong??

Justy

I think that maybe the solution is to change your doctor? He sounds an @$$hole. What kind of medic tells you that you will die? What kind of doctor knows you are suicidal but doesn't act on it? In both cases, not a good doctor.

Of course he should put aside his own feelings. This is about you, not him. He has hundreds of patients, but each patient is an individual, and he should treat each patient as such. You are suicidal: you shouldn't be made to feel guilty about that, especially not by your own doctor. He should be doing all he can to help you, not blaming you for your condition and making you feel bad.

It's frightening just how many people on this board mention their ignorant doctors...

So justme, I think you should change doctors. From the sound of it, you're not going to improve with your current doc because it seems he has no confidence in you and doesn't want to help you.

I do not know about you and your relationship with your pdoc, but almost all would already have you under "watch", several years ago the confession of my s feelings had the pdoc convince me to sign myself in for observation and medication monitoring.
I find it rather odd that a mental health professional would so readily dismiss you or not take your feelings seriously.
Perhaps, if possible, seek another pdoc.
Meanwhile keep that what you said in your heart and mind that you are a "suvivor", that is what you said, right?

Take care,
DE

I vote, "Change docs."

I was thinking about changing doctors but I dont want to start over. This is my family doctor that I am referring to. I don't have a pdoc anymore and I really dont want one.
I am going to continue with him for now because of the lump in my breast.
I am also going to go see him tomorrow with my t. I mean really, how many doctors give you his cell phone number. I spoke with him tonight and he said he is looking forward to speaking with me and my t. So I will see what happens with it all. She takes what I say seriously and she knows I am in trouble. I tell her exactally what is on my mind. I promised her I would be fully honest even if it were to ever mean getting myself committed.
I know she is concerned and I do know my doc is too. He is so frustrated but I think its just that he does not understand this. But my medical health is in danger so I do feel he needs to put his views and negativity aside and do whats right.
If they commit me then I guess its what needs to be done.
I mean really, I can't help myself so I think by forcing me somewhere safe may be the only way. I dont want my choices to be taken away but I am killing myself. Its no different then me taking a gun to myself and ending it that way. Right?? What does it change if you slowly end your life or do it quickly? Its the same damn thing. I am suicidal. I admit it. And I am not sure if I want help or not. I must or I would not be here right. I am just so confused. I don't want to leave my babies, I love them so dearly.
My eating disorder t said when I speak of my kids its with such love and caring. I said yes, I would give them the world if I could. But it doesnt make mommy any healthier. I have always been a fighter and have over come so much, so why stop now.
The problem is that this is an addiction, I can't imagine my life without it. I am scared to get to know the real person inside. I was knew her and thought she was great, but will I still be someone who I like. I know how lucky I am to have the people in my life. My life could be so much harder, it could be a life that others struggle from birth to the ending. I have had many good times and I want to be here to watch and participate in my kids lives. I am sick of being sick. But I NEED HELP, THE PROPER HELP. The kind that is not judgmental, the commpassionate kind. Where the hell is it cause I am tired. And the longer it takes to find this, the closer I am to death. I am dying, by my own hand. Where is the help that I seek so desperately.
I will find it, and I hope it won't be too late. My entire body hurts. This pain is unreal. I am wrecking my own darn body. It could be well, if I let it. I could be free from this grip, just think, an illness thats not part of me anymore. How wonderful is that thought. Its so far away though. I feel sad.

Justy

It's great that yr T is going to the doc w/you to help you through it. So you do have that help. Best wishes for getting the support you need, on the forums & in 3D life. (((((((Justy)))))))

The support in here is unbelievable. This forum has got me through so much, I may sound negative many days, but really if it werent for this forum, I would not be here.
You all keep me here. I am amazed with how many others that are going through difficulties but yet are this supportive. I didn't think it existed in this world. But I was dead wrong.
Its wonderful to come on here and recieve the pm's that I do. They are full of kind and caring words. And the replies on my posts; wow. You are all special and awesome people. You all deserve the best in life.
I will let you all know how the day goes. I am nervous but it will be fine. I will keep all of you in my heart, that gets me through these tough days.

Love,

Justy

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Justy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} IMHO, you should stick with your family doctor. Taking your T is a great idea! That way, you'll all be on the same page. Your MD knows you better than a new one and there's a great advantage to that. With the crises you're facing right now, starting from scratch would be difficult and take longer to fix than staying with someone that knows all about you already. Just be completely candid with both your Dr and your T. Don't hide anything.

I'll be waiting to hear how this appointment goes.

I agree Justy... most of the members here are really sincerely caring ppl!

As you for ahem! yeah you too! heheheh <font color="blue">

I can't fault too much about how doctors handle suicidal patients... especially when what we read is 3rd party... and I know for myself that I don't always hear and relate exactly what happened... maybe he said what he did to try and show you HE isn't afraid of your talking about suicide? It may be that his showing this has helped you to not try it? I don't know for sure, there are a lot of weird doctors out there...

I kind of have a different take on the suicidal issue. One thing you must realize is that your family doctor is not trained to deal with suicidal issues. They are a GP &amp; that is exactly what it means "General". If you really want treatment for the suicide, then you need to go to the appropriate Psychiatrist. Not that your therapist can't handle it &amp; require you to sign a contract not to hurt yourself.

I hope when you said "I'm going to fight you because I am a survivor", you meant your suicidal thoughts &amp; not your doctor. Just remember, your doctor can not stop you from attempting a suicide, he can only temporarily protect you from yourself. If you are serious, YOU WILL SUCCEED at one point in time or another. He cannot control your thoughts &amp; when they are continual, a doctor is not likely to put you into the hospital on a permanent basis for thoughts any more than he can cage you up until your thoughts go away.

He is correct when he says "the choice is yours to make". He is being honest with you.

I have been where you are for so many years. It was a continual cycle that I could not get out of. I had so many suicide attempts, that my psychiatrist had never experienced someone that bad. The paramedics were a permanent fixture outside my home. He was continually requiring me to sign a contract to not harm myself (which I refused to sign). He controlled my meds, making me pick them up every week, but I found other things to take that could do just as much damage. I found other ways to try to be successful, &amp; came close several times, only ended up in ICU in a coma on a breathing machine for several days. I was probably in the hospital about every other week during the cycle which lasted for years. I would end up in the hospital, &amp; would be mad that I wasn't successful, so I would try harder the next time. My Dr finally said that he couldn't keep me safe anymore as long as I choose to act like this.

When it comes right down to it, we are the only one that can change our mode of thinking. Sure, it takes help &amp; therapy, but in the end, we have to value our lives enough to get out of that mode of thinking. There are many depressed people who are not suicidal. It is just the way we act out our depression (or our cry for help) &amp; is not a requirement of depression.

If you choose to continue with the suicidal feelings, it is different than actually acting on those feelings. Once you act on them, you are put into the hospital on a 72 hr hold. If you haven't resolved it by then, a hearing is held to continue it for 14 days more. After that time, they may try to find you incompetent to live in the "real" world, &amp; place you under the care of someone responsible (as if you are a child again).

My question for you is: Is it really worth giving up your life, assuming you are not successful in your attempt, to have someone control your life &amp; take all your freedoms away?

Your doctor is just being truthful with you, &amp; putting the ultimate responsibility for your life where it should be, in your hands. Not to say that you don't need help to get through the place you are at, but you make the final choice.

Please choose to stay alive even though at the time you don't want to. Once you get through the cycle (how ever many years it takes), you will look back &amp; realize how good life can really end up being &amp; be glad that you actually didn't succeed.

Please think about it. I know I have a different point of view than the others &amp; you may not like what I have to say, but remember I have been there for years. I know it doesn't go away over night. Those feelings are not easy to get out of our thought processes once they are there. But you can get there with help, support, &amp; a lot of work. You can contact me anytime if you would like, I'm always available.

Sorry if I ruffle any feathers,
Debbie K

I totally agree with eskielover. Our T cannot stop us from killing ourselves - it is always a choice we have. I have had only two days in my life (and those two have both occurred in the past two weeks!) that I have not thought about doing it (I even have two foolproof plans which I have told my T about) but I have a verbal agreement to not activate my plans as long as I remain in therapy. I know that my T is with me through this - he won't lock me up because he trusts me to not act on my thoughts - he knows, I think, that deep down I don't really want to die, as much as I think I want to (and now that I have had those two days I am beginning to believe he is right). I think I never would have gone into T if I had not wanted to live. I also asked him once what was wrong with wanting to die? Why is everyone against it? He did not give me any BS reason to do with morality and religion. He paused a long time and thought about an answer and finally said mainly it would be because of "missed opportunities" and that really made sense. If I had died I would not have had those two perfect days. If I had died I would no longer be able to stroke my cat. If I had died I never would have learned how to meditate or to have a yoga class or to see another beautiful sunrise or sunset. Missed opportunites makes sense to me as a reason to continue to try to live. At least for me, the fact that I sought therapy to start with means that some small part of me wanted to live and that small part acted to find the help I needed and had needed for 50+ years.

I am glad that you are here talking about it. Talk, talk, talk and then talk some more. I agree if we want to really die we would succeed ( if we're lucky). I know no matter what anyone says or thinks at the time when we're ready nothing else matters. Since my last attempt (which I thaught there would be no way I would survive) I learned that no matter what way you attempt to kill your self there is always that chance you will survive. The chance may be slim but do you want to take that chance and be the one who lives in who knows what condition? Think about it. I am so grateful and I believe it was only by the grace of God that just as I was getting ready to follow through, a voice; one that I had never heard before loud and very clear and very strong and sure said, "What if you live?" This clarity came in my thaughts and for a moment it was like watching a movie of what was going to happen, I could see the damage it was going to do (some how knew with no doubt) and living like that was not what I wanted for sure. I was able to call mental health center for help and was placed in the hospital. There are ways that you are more apt to succeed but since that time I have heard more about those who have survived those so called sure fired ways to kill your self. I still get the thaughts but today I talk about them to my T because I do not want to get to that point of no return. It scares me more the thaught of living after attempting suicide then it does to actually die. I am grateful to have that fear and it gets me to talk to someone. I'm learning T can not be there 24/7 and will not be here forever either and that's where I need to make my support system bigger which is why I am here. So far being here has helped. Thank you all!

AMEN! I couldn't have said it better myself! Thank you, Eskie!

Thanks for the reminder about living for missed opportunities. I needed that. And yes, please keeping talking and writing here, because the discussion and the contact with others who are suffering is an opportunity for me. These virtual connections with people are a large part of what's sustaining me through the trough days. Thanks.

Wow, took a while to read; lol.

Yes for sure I agree with what has been said here. I have dealth with this for many years as well. Nobody can make our choices, if we decide to end our life, well thats our choice.

I guess what I was trying to say is that I feel helpless with my eating disorder. I do not know or understand how to take control. I am a fighter, always have been. Its the uncertainty in myself. Am I good enough to be alive or do I deserve this life. I am without a doubt a very lucky person. I have been dealth many different cards but without them I would not have learned what I have.

I do go from wanting to fight to not caring about myself at all. Sometimes I think about who I am and who I used to be; I think I am not so bad of a person. I have helped and touched many others in my experiences. I have had so many others tell me that I have a special gift, how loving and generous I am. I am not trying to be "high on myself" but I know I have been a support to many friends in my life time.

Like you say, my doctor is a GP. He is not trained to deal with all of these issues. I do resist many things that have been offered. Not fully understanding why at times. I have this deathly fear of getting better without having the "friend" I talk about so much. I am scared of life without it. Who am I anyway??

In the end, its up to me what I decide to do with the life given to me. I often think about those who get hit with an illness, like my mom, and she fights so damn hard to stay in the here and now. She is on the most part very positive. She wants to be here, watch us grow, watch her grandchildren strive to become who they are. I feel guilty about the choices I make. I think, "what right do I have to risk death when so many others are fighting so hard to keep theirs."

Its tough, mental illness is not any different. We still have to fight for our health. If we choose not to, well thats the way it is.

You didn't ruffle my feathers; lololol. I thought that was cute. Honesty can be hard to face or to hear. But the truth can hurt sometimes and other times it makes you look at it in a new perspective. We get ill and only see our way. When others show you there are other ways of thinking, well thats not a bad thing. Its good. We take what we want, what can help, and just leave the rest.

I do feel though that medical professions do have an obligation to protect patients to the best of there ability. Why did they go into this type of career anyway?? When someone is suicidal, they have a responsibility to step in until their thoughts can be changed to see that's its not the answer. These people need to help keep us safe cause when we are extremely ill, we don't always see the light at the end. But there is not doubt in my mind that they are doing this and will continue. Like my doctor said, help me help you. That could not be a more true statement. They can't fix it for us, we have to. And if we give up, well what are they supposed to do. They are professionals but are also human and get frustrated as well.

I hope this makes sense. Thanks for reading. And when I get silly thoughts, just remember; I AM STILL HERE!!! lolol.

Love,

Justy

Thank God you are still here and can say what you want to say. I admire you for that for sure. There is a lot to be said for that. Helps me to know when I get those silly thaughts that I can still be her too. Thank You Justy!