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Old May 25, 2016, 11:15 AM
1976kitchenfloor 1976kitchenfloor is offline
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Since many times the abuse in early childhood is perpetrated and covered up by family, I am wondering if anyone here has an ongoing family relationship with people who have abused you?

Are you able to be around them--and if so, how? What about breaking off 'dissociating when you are around them/in reaction?

Is a safe environment away from abuse and abusers a necessary element in effective therapy for PTSD, dissociation related to abuse, or DID?
--------------

I am really troubled by the fact that DID is not understood or even accepted as a legitimate disorder by many practioners in the psychiatric community itself. How, I ask myself, can anyone treat the patient without a basis in understanding what is going on ?

So, I read books, looking for some common basis which could be applied to to DID. I am reading Self Comes to Mind. What part does the brain play in mind and self? What about awareness? How can this apply to DID and the basis and formation of self identity?

(I think of awareness as being the basic element necessary for having a sense of self and self identity. In my own expereince, the awareness of what others /alters/function had expereinced and felt was not there and that is why I think I was not functioning as one whole person with a continuing linear personal history. Only after becoming aware of my other aprts and having access to their own perviously separate expereinces/memories/feelings was I able to accept and acknowledge and work through all the peices of my life that were mine and that in the end ultimately shaped the whole intact person I am today. Awareness was the key: I couldnt acknowledge and react and feel my own life in entireity until " I" was aware and in the memory expereince feelings myself. )

I read Antionio de Silva's work in which he talks about memory being/making us who we are --and that explained a lot. "Of course," I thought to myself as I read, " if we dont have access and ownership awareness all our memories we are going to be less than a whole intact person--especially since the memories we are disconnected from are traumatic and fundamentally affect us unconsciously. "

Unlike other mental disorders drugs do not help a patient with DID. In my own case, I was misdiagnosed as a young girl and given all sorts of antipsychotic drugs for years. I spent years in and out of mental hospitals and had the mental and emotional awareness of the undead. Being sedated and altered chemically in my awareness and abilitites to function as an adult not only diminished my awareness of everything around me, when the mistake was finnaly discovered and I was off all the drugs, the misdaignosis also complicated my therapy and added years onto my recovery time.

That fact that DID does not depend upon drug treatment also leaves therapy dependent upon understanding and forging a solid therapeutic realtionship with the patient, and that in turn depends on the therapists understanding of self and mind and how we become who we see ourselves as and understand ourselves to be.

Any thoughts out there about any of this?
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Lost_in_the_woods
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Lost_in_the_woods

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  #2  
Old May 25, 2016, 12:58 PM
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amandalouise amandalouise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1976kitchenfloor View Post
Since many times the abuse in early childhood is perpetrated and covered up by family, I am wondering if anyone here has an ongoing family relationship with people who have abused you?

Are you able to be around them--and if so, how? What about breaking off 'dissociating when you are around them/in reaction?

Is a safe environment away from abuse and abusers a necessary element in effective therapy for PTSD, dissociation related to abuse, or DID?
--------------

I am really troubled by the fact that DID is not understood or even accepted as a legitimate disorder by many practioners in the psychiatric community itself. How, I ask myself, can anyone treat the patient without a basis in understanding what is going on ?

So, I read books, looking for some common basis which could be applied to to DID. I am reading Self Comes to Mind. What part does the brain play in mind and self? What about awareness? How can this apply to DID and the basis and formation of self identity?

(I think of awareness as being the basic element necessary for having a sense of self and self identity. In my own expereince, the awareness of what others /alters/function had expereinced and felt was not there and that is why I think I was not functioning as one whole person with a continuing linear personal history. Only after becoming aware of my other aprts and having access to their own perviously separate expereinces/memories/feelings was I able to accept and acknowledge and work through all the peices of my life that were mine and that in the end ultimately shaped the whole intact person I am today. Awareness was the key: I couldnt acknowledge and react and feel my own life in entireity until " I" was aware and in the memory expereince feelings myself. )

I read Antionio de Silva's work in which he talks about memory being/making us who we are --and that explained a lot. "Of course," I thought to myself as I read, " if we dont have access and ownership awareness all our memories we are going to be less than a whole intact person--especially since the memories we are disconnected from are traumatic and fundamentally affect us unconsciously. "

Unlike other mental disorders drugs do not help a patient with DID. In my own case, I was misdiagnosed as a young girl and given all sorts of antipsychotic drugs for years. I spent years in and out of mental hospitals and had the mental and emotional awareness of the undead. Being sedated and altered chemically in my awareness and abilitites to function as an adult not only diminished my awareness of everything around me, when the mistake was finnaly discovered and I was off all the drugs, the misdaignosis also complicated my therapy and added years onto my recovery time.

That fact that DID does not depend upon drug treatment also leaves therapy dependent upon understanding and forging a solid therapeutic realtionship with the patient, and that in turn depends on the therapists understanding of self and mind and how we become who we see ourselves as and understand ourselves to be.

Any thoughts out there about any of this?
my abusers were prosecuted and went to prison for most of my childhood, they were just released from prison not too long ago. I have a protection order preventing contact (which I obtained while they were still in prison going through the release process)

my point of view is that they abused me in such horrific ways that it created a serious, debilitating mental disorder that affected every aspect of my life, therefore despite being who they are and how they are related to me, they do not deserve having me back in their lives, they showed they can not be trustworthy around children and have in the past harmed a child in extremely horrific ways. there is no way they deserve to get to know my children or even be in close proximity to me and my children. it actually affects them not having contact because every time they are around my other family members they are constantly reminded of what they lost in harming a child so horrifically that it caused that under aged 5 child to have DID and that child having to grow up with all the problems that comes with such a severe mental disorder that DID is.

no having contact with abusers is not a necessity for healing. there are millions upon millions including me, that do not have contact with their abusers and have healed and integrated to become one whole person again.

suggestion contact your treatment provider, they will explain to you how not having contact with abusers does not hinder a persons healing process regardless of what mental disorder that person has, they can also speak directly in reference to you and your own problems and whether healing is possible for you.

um here in the USA DID is a recognized mental disorder with all treatment providers, you see treatment providers can not go on their personal opinion of a mental disorder here in the USA. some may hold the ....personal opinion....that DID doesnt exist but legally they have no choice but to recognize and diagnose and treat all the existing mental disorders listed in the DSM 5. if doing this goes contrary to their personal or religious beliefs they are supposed to stop treating that person and refer them to another treatment provider knowledge able in that clients problem areas.

if you have a treatment provider that is telling you that DID does not exist you can tell them that it does exist because it is in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual 5th edition put out by the america psychiatric association that lists what mental disorders are recognized /diagnosed and treated here in america. you can also tell them that there is a website where they can contact the APA their self for confirmation and information on this disorder, and you can also request that they refer you to another treatment provider that does work with dissociative issues.

not being on medication does not mean a person must forgo treatment for dissociative disorders. ....drugs do help some with DID because their triggers may be associated with things like anxiety/ depression\psychosis.....there is no medication to make someone not be DID because dissociation is a natural reaction to a trigger. the solution to not dissociating is addressing the trigger. Just like if you had a sore thumb you look to find the root cause of that sore thumb (trigger) so that you know how to treat that sore thumb,

short version there is no major secret therapy for DID. therapy for dissociative disorders is the same as therapy for PTSD, Depression and other mental disorders. some people heal in relatively short time and others it may take many years.

medication for things like anxiety, depression,.....
grounding....learning how to notice your suroundings, notice/recognize what you are feeling,
coping tools like relaxation, learning about what causes you to feel numb, spaced out, disconnected (in other words dissociate\switch)
Talk about your problems with day to day life and if you choose to talk about the abuse.

I know many people who have dissociative disorders including DID and they have been able to heal \integrate into one whole person simply because alters with DID are a special kind of alter with their own sense of agency (their own jobs, purposes, reasons for being created) when they are no longer needed for that persons survival they merge together to become one whole person again.

for example being on medication for my bipolar disorder, doing relaxation\grounding and stabilizing my day to day life to where I no longer needed to dissociate in order to live my live each of my alters merged together with me as their jobs, purposes reasons for being created were no more.

my suggestion talk with your treatment providers. let them know that you feel you may not be getting what you want out of therapy and maybe there is a way to work in what you want to do in therapy, regardless of what you are diagnosed with.

btw i have had and do have very solid relationships with my treatment providers. having DID in the past and now dissociative disorders did not impact \hinder\prevent my having therapeutic relationships with my treatment providers. in fact many were very interested given the rarety of DID. not everyone who has been abused becomes DID.

I did find on the rare occasions when i .....thought ....my having DID was hindering my having a solid therapeutic relationship that this turned out to be a transference of my own feelings onto the therapist. I did not accept my having DID therefore I felt my therapist would not accept my having DID. because I was .....projecting\transferring...my own denial onto my therapist I was the problem not the disorder or the treatment provider. this situation resolved itself when I went in one day and actually accused the therapist of not believing in DID, and such. turned out the therapist had a relative who was DID so they very much accepted the disorder, very much would have understood had I not self sabotaged by holding on to that idea of my treatment provider. after I started opening up on what my problems were, the therapeutic relationship was no longer hindered.

my suggestion let your treatment provider in on how you are feeling. they can help you to develop a better understanding of what they can and cant do for you and how to have a better therapeutic relationship.
Thanks for this!
Lost_in_the_woods
  #3  
Old May 25, 2016, 06:06 PM
Anonymous47147
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i have a good relationship with some of them now because i forgave them.
there are still a few people i have nothing to do with though, i am not sure why i am unable to forgive them yet.
  #4  
Old May 25, 2016, 07:44 PM
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My father was the worse. He fragmented fragments....so none of us like or talk to him.

But Mom is mom. Ours is just ignorant and simple....so she can't really be held for much...we do talk weekly.

I haven't talked to them in 20 years, but I tried reaching out and father freaked me out....we are so done.
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1976kitchenfloor, Lost_in_the_woods
  #5  
Old May 27, 2016, 07:07 PM
1976kitchenfloor 1976kitchenfloor is offline
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Hello, especially a note to Amanda.

I need to add something about this. I guess what I was asking about in the first question/part relates to the incredible loss that is incurred personally via DID: Specifically, the loss of family connections as well as the loss of time that has been connected to others in the past so that relationships could be formed and ongoing-- basically, the effects of the episodic nature of the disorder.

For me personally, the years I was coming and going all over the place made it impossible for me to establish long term relationships. This situation even today translates into me feeling, in myself, to be like an immigrant/transplant to my own world --simply because I have so little in common with most people I meet. I have no shared past to speak of. “I” was not there for many years. “I” was not present in my own awareness for many of the things that became signature events for my own generation. Factor in my age when I went into therapy the final time and was diagnosed (56?) and my age today : almost seventy. Most of my life was lived looking through different sets of eyes. I am only recently here as one whole and self identifying self aware person.

With regard to my own abusers, I no longer have any one of them in my life and I no longer have to deal with them in any way whatsoever. When they were alive, however, that was a differnt story and it was very hard on me and frankly, being around them triggered my dissociation repeatedly.

As for the medications, I wasnt suggesting that DID cant be treated without drugs. Just the opposite.

I guess what I am saying is that I am not in therapy any longer and anything I post is related to the questions I have regarding the nature of DID itself. Also, on a personal note, while I had this disorder in the past for many years, I also went through years of therapy and self help practices. I actually am here today now as one whole self identifying and fully aware person. Given that, today, my concerns might be called academic because they are based on what I read in relation to what I have personally expereinced.

Not everyone in psychiatry accepts or understands DID and for many people they dont get to pick their therapist ; he/she is assigned. In my area (where I live) ,in fact, psychotherapy is being phased out more and more and the emphasis on is on the managment of patients on psychotropic medications. Insurance and money plays a big aprt in this and that of course also has bearing on the quality of life a mental patient will have. Then consider the fact that psychiatry has a rather high incidence of patient misdiagnosis, and that misdiagnosis in psyhe often means a person is given drugs that hurt rather than help them, and this in turn impedes and complicates any future therapy and healing.

Among other things I am wondering about, I guess I am asking if others are concerned that the field of psychiatry itself has grown more dependent on basing everthing on a purely biological cause? It seems like everyone is taking one psychtropic drug or another in the country. I find that truly alarming.

I have another observation /question: In the course of my early life especially, I have spent a lot of time in psychiatric wards. I have known a lot of people with mental illnesses and or emtoional problems. What I find compelling is there seems to be a strong correlation between childhood abuse and neglect and developing mental illness. It seems like everyone I ever got close to and talked with had been the victim of childhood sexual abuse.

If there is in fact, a correlation between early ongoing childhood abuse and the later development of a mental illness, maybe it is related to how we handle this problem. I have to ask: What would happen if the abusers were called out and put away removed from society -- instead of the victims ending up being called crazy?

While your own case is quite remarkable, I think most abusers are not outed and prosecuted, and in fact go on to continue to abuse and exploit children for as long as they live. Maybe if our society addressed the sexual and violent abuse of little children in a more aggressive and comprehensive manner we would have less people ending up in a psychiatrists' office or mental hospital.
Thanks for this!
Lost_in_the_woods
  #6  
Old May 27, 2016, 09:41 PM
Anonymous48690
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I can definetly say that I feel like an incomplete person, lacking in certain human traits and memories. It's so bad that we look inept, stupid, incapable, clueless....but we are smarter than most of the people we meet. Our IQ has to be phenominal for we the student quickly becomes the master surpassing and teaching the master. Quick to grasp theories, multi talented in arts, science and engineering, procedures, intent, structures, be very calculating and systematic....but can't love, laugh, live.....or do all that and walk around like an air head.

I'm on my fourth (and final I hope) divorce and seperation. I'm done. We are so divided over human relationships. One will like or love and the Others would hate while expressing their opinions making it obvious.

We enter a relationship one way and exit as another. This sucks. As far as family, they suck, too.

I'm alone. Nobody could be "prosecuted" in our case. I dissociate (why? Physical defiency? Trauma- don't know)...then endured 18 years of yelling, threats, bullying, physical emotional and mental abuse by Mom and Dad...nothing sexual. Just a lot of red bloody raised skin, pain, pleading for my life crawling away bouncing off walls and grabbed for more, ridiculed, debased, rejected, scape goat, hated, beat.....we were just a shell of a person in our teens. Then harrassed, chastised, made fun of, laughed at, threatened, teased in public school because we were so weird. We should and tried to be dead but not everyone wants to die, so we plow on enduring life's worse..... a form of self debasment, self-harm, hate...

Triggers now causes certain responses like ritual abuse. Certain vocal tones illicit a particular response. People pick up on it and use it against me, then laugh. Even at 48 my father says words or a tone then I find myself doing things, reacting totally not the way I wanted to as an Other steps up to please....so we don't talk.

Perps of abuse won't get prosecuted over just the word of a mentally ill patient, I just can't see it without physical, photographic evidence....and most stay hidden.
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Lost_in_the_woods
  #7  
Old May 27, 2016, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
What would happen if the abusers were called out and put away removed from society -- instead of the victims ending up being called crazy?
I wish this would happen. But thinking of it, most abusers have some type of antisocial trait, there could definitely be an abuser disorder. I would be happy if it was recognized and they were seen as sick, instead they are seen as healthy but bad. I mean seriously, they are healthy?

I've never been abused but I've seen how different types of abuse have caused a lot of pain, two of my friends were "just" emotionally abused by their narcissistic mothers, especially one is a wreck from it. Still.. the mom is seen as perfectly normal. After all the crap she pulled over the years... Yea sigh.
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1976kitchenfloor
  #8  
Old May 27, 2016, 11:02 PM
Luce Luce is offline
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we have ongoing contact with our main perp.




'nuff said.
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  #9  
Old May 28, 2016, 10:59 AM
1976kitchenfloor 1976kitchenfloor is offline
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Originally Posted by Starry_Night View Post
i have a good relationship with some of them now because i forgave them.
there are still a few people i have nothing to do with though, i am not sure why i am unable to forgive them yet.
Thank you for sharing your personal experince with me. I want to say, 'do whaever you do to take care of yourself first. ' you sound like a very kind and loving person.
  #10  
Old May 28, 2016, 11:01 AM
1976kitchenfloor 1976kitchenfloor is offline
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Originally Posted by AlwaysChanging2 View Post
My father was the worse. He fragmented fragments....so none of us like or talk to him.

But Mom is mom. Ours is just ignorant and simple....so she can't really be held for much...we do talk weekly.

I haven't talked to them in 20 years, but I tried reaching out and father freaked me out....we are so done.
Thank you for sharing. I feel for you in having to go through things pretty much alone and undefended by others close to you. Take care and try to be generous with yourself and your needs.
  #11  
Old May 28, 2016, 11:15 AM
1976kitchenfloor 1976kitchenfloor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysChanging2 View Post
I can definetly say that I feel like an incomplete person, lacking in certain human traits and memories. It's so bad that we look inept, stupid, incapable, clueless....but we are smarter than most of the people we meet. Our IQ has to be phenominal for we the student quickly becomes the master surpassing and teaching the master. Quick to grasp theories, multi talented in arts, science and engineering, procedures, intent, structures, be very calculating and systematic....but can't love, laugh, live.....or do all that and walk around like an air head.

I'm on my fourth (and final I hope) divorce and seperation. I'm done. We are so divided over human relationships. One will like or love and the Others would hate while expressing their opinions making it obvious.

We enter a relationship one way and exit as another. This sucks. As far as family, they suck, too.

I'm alone. Nobody could be "prosecuted" in our case. I dissociate (why? Physical defiency? Trauma- don't know)...then endured 18 years of yelling, threats, bullying, physical emotional and mental abuse by Mom and Dad...nothing sexual. Just a lot of red bloody raised skin, pain, pleading for my life crawling away bouncing off walls and grabbed for more, ridiculed, debased, rejected, scape goat, hated, beat.....we were just a shell of a person in our teens. Then harrassed, chastised, made fun of, laughed at, threatened, teased in public school because we were so weird. We should and tried to be dead but not everyone wants to die, so we plow on enduring life's worse..... a form of self debasment, self-harm, hate...

Triggers now causes certain responses like ritual abuse. Certain vocal tones illicit a particular response. People pick up on it and use it against me, then laugh. Even at 48 my father says words or a tone then I find myself doing things, reacting totally not the way I wanted to as an Other steps up to please....so we don't talk.

Perps of abuse won't get prosecuted over just the word of a mentally ill patient, I just can't see it without physical, photographic evidence....and most stay hidden.
Hello again. Yes, holding abusers accountable is difficult and often never happens. I do think you should stay away from anyone -like your dad- who choses to keep hurting you. You need to protect yourself from toxic people, dont you think? And I do know how hard that is when family is involved. Who wants to comepletely go it on their onw?

And yet, sometimes it is the only way to keep from continued abuse and harm-- we need to divorce ourselves from the family we have because the family is so destructive. In my own expereince, my child's desire to be part of and expereince an accepting approving loving family was so strong that for years There was a part of me that kept trying to change or 'fix them.'
Only when I got away from these people was I ever able to clearly see what was going on and only then I could begin to approach therapy for what turned out to be DID. I truly do feel for those people who were so harmed by their primary caregivers when thery were young and most vulnerable so that now they aer trying to live without really ever expereincing what it is to 'grow up in and as the individual that was there in the first place.'

Therapy I guess comes down to having a therapeutic relationship that can work to repair the damage to the childs trust that was violated and broken in the first place. I do think that all DID people are DID because they instead fo growing up into themselves , before they ever got to expereince who they were as people, they had to spend all their time surviving ina serious defense mode.

I wish you the very best in your new single life. Maybe this will work better for you, giving you time to be there just for you. I wish you the very best.
  #12  
Old Jun 03, 2016, 12:10 PM
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TrailRunner14 TrailRunner14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1976kitchenfloor View Post
Since many times the abuse in early childhood is perpetrated and covered up by family, I am wondering if anyone here has an ongoing family relationship with people who have abused you?

Are you able to be around them--and if so, how? What about breaking off 'dissociating when you are around them/in reaction?

Is a safe environment away from abuse and abusers a necessary element in effective therapy for PTSD, dissociation related to abuse, or DID?
--------------
I've been thinking on this. I do have ongoing relationships with people who abused me. My mom and my husband.

With my mom, there is a shift that I feel when I am around her. I struggle with the feelings of betrayal blindness, and the pain in my heart of not having a true knowledge of what "safety" feels like. For some reason, she takes great delight in retelling stories of when I was little and how defiant and strong willed I was. When that happens, I do "go away" - I'm still "there" but I'm not. If that makes sense.

With my husband, there is a "radar" always on. Watching in hypervigilance for any sign that things could erupt. It's very draining and I feel very detached. There are different "parts" of me that are there, like a barrier between him and me. Those parts wait for a warning from the "radar" that something may need to be done to keep things ok. Usually, one of those parts can handle the situation, there have been times that I just "went away" and I'm piecing that together with my counselor now.

I'm working on learning about boundaries, and what they are. Being raised in the environment that I was, I question whether I have been like a codependent and allowed his treatment of my, because I knew no better/different. As I've become stronger, he is making an attempt to change. That is very encouraging to me. I hope that I can learn how to turn the radar off and that I can learn what "safe" really is.
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Lost_in_the_woods
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Lost_in_the_woods
  #13  
Old Jun 03, 2016, 11:50 PM
Sarmas Sarmas is offline
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You are so right. I've been abused in my childhood for many many years and then as an adult I've ran into abudive issues as well. Then unfortunately my life really sucks. I've been dissociating since I was really young. I guess when I was young to me is daydreaming. I would rock on a chair for ours in this imaginary world full of people who I knew in my real world an people who I made up in my head. I still do it today as well. I brought it up to my T and she didn't seem interested but to me it's a big part of my life. I just don't think that she knows how to approach it. I have to watch myself because I'll catch myself making facial gestures. It's my way of getting away but I find that it's an obstacle in my real life. I see that but I can't do much it with it and it's my crutch. As for the person who abused, I still have contact sporadically. I've learn to accept it and I've had so much going on in my world that now it's become one of many things. I sometimes feel like the world is against me. In fact I feel that now. This is something that I'm battling and it's only getting worse. Now with my therapy break I'm even worse but I can't go back.
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  #14  
Old Jun 04, 2016, 05:21 AM
Luce Luce is offline
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So we still have regular contact with our primary abuser, our father. Seems so freakin stupid when I say it. because on one side of this particular equation we would never ever have anything to do with him if it were our choice. Unfortunately we are not the only side that exists.
Our mother was aware of the abuse. She sent us to the bedroom to be abused while she watched TV. Sometimes she cried because it was too loud and she could hear us. We still see her too.
The other day we saw an old counsellor for the first time in over 30 years. We knew we had disclosed some abuse to her, but none of us front people knew about the father abuse back then. Apparently one of us told her about it then though. We didn't know that. One of the reasons for wanting to see this particular woman now was so we could tell her that. And apparently we did 30 years ago. Oh well.
Anyway, she suggested we sit down and have a conversation with the father about the abuse. I just about fell off my danged chair. Are you freakin serious, woman? 0_o Apparently she was. What would you say to him if he were sitting here now, she asked. We'd be feckin terrified and not say and a damn thing, that's what.
She drew this triangle thing. It said victim, rescuer, perpetrator. Who is here, she asked, pointing to the rescuer position. Father is, he rescues me. Father is all three. We are all three. We are all stuck in the same old roles. We are all the victims, all the rescuers, all the perpetrators.
She asked If we broke this cycle what would you lose?
The only answer is everything. They are family. They are all we have. Without them we are nothing at all.

Edited to add:
We had dinner with them tonight. We sat next to our rapist and his co-offender, and traded small talk and pleasantries over lasagna and apple crumble.
How's that for effed up?
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  #15  
Old Jun 04, 2016, 10:34 AM
Anonymous48690
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The last time I talked to father was on the phone a year ago. What we was talking about I don't know, but it was something that he disagreed with. He then used a condescending disapproving tone and a way of saying things (mother does too) which triggers a butt kissing little part to present to practicly glorify his rightness out of full blown fear even when he's wrong. He laughed at the responce because he knows it's there...always has by the look in his eye.

Other people have found it, too and abused it for there own amusement.

Ugh! We were so pissed off after realizing what just transpired (we were 46 years old at the time) when we hung the phone up that we ranted and raved uncontrollably for hours and felt sore about it for days to weeks still till now.

I emailed him and told him my mental condition and haven't said a word since. I've blocked his number and dropped the entire family from Facebook. They all happen to take his side and that we messed up children are all wrong. Why are the children of the saint such devils? How about the saint is in fact the biggest demon ever? Duh, blind fools.
Thanks for this!
TrailRunner14
  #16  
Old Jun 04, 2016, 10:48 AM
1976kitchenfloor 1976kitchenfloor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailRunner14 View Post
I've been thinking on this. I do have ongoing relationships with people who abused me. My mom and my husband.

With my mom, there is a shift that I feel when I am around her. I struggle with the feelings of betrayal blindness, and the pain in my heart of not having a true knowledge of what "safety" feels like. For some reason, she takes great delight in retelling stories of when I was little and how defiant and strong willed I was. When that happens, I do "go away" - I'm still "there" but I'm not. If that makes sense.

With my husband, there is a "radar" always on. Watching in hypervigilance for any sign that things could erupt. It's very draining and I feel very detached. There are different "parts" of me that are there, like a barrier between him and me. Those parts wait for a warning from the "radar" that something may need to be done to keep things ok. Usually, one of those parts can handle the situation, there have been times that I just "went away" and I'm piecing that together with my counselor now.

I'm working on learning about boundaries, and what they are. Being raised in the environment that I was, I question whether I have been like a codependent and allowed his treatment of my, because I knew no better/different. As I've become stronger, he is making an attempt to change. That is very encouraging to me. I hope that I can learn how to turn the radar off and that I can learn what "safe" really is.
Hello Trailrunner.

My mother ( who has now passed) used to do the same thing. I think that is part and parcel of the sick and sadistic nature of abusers. As far as your husabnd goes, I am also very familiar with this reaction-the hypervigilence and walking on egg shells.

As a kid you learned what you lived, it was what you were taught was 'normal' life-- and then later, like me, you married someone who was also an abuser. There is such an unconscious element in life expereinces and what we learn. It becomes part of our minds and selves and the unconscious mind often influences our choices. Most people who were abused as kids marry abusers. Its what we know and recognize unconsiously even as we dont actively choose to be with another abuser.

Take care now. It is very draining going through what you are going through. In therapy, understanding and knowing how we got where we are lays the groundwork for us being able to get where we want to be in our own sense of self and individual identity and in how we live our lives as that one true self.
Thanks for this!
TrailRunner14
  #17  
Old Jun 04, 2016, 11:09 AM
1976kitchenfloor 1976kitchenfloor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luce View Post
So we still have regular contact with our primary abuser, our father. Seems so freakin stupid when I say it. because on one side of this particular equation we would never ever have anything to do with him if it were our choice. Unfortunately we are not the only side that exists.
Our mother was aware of the abuse. She sent us to the bedroom to be abused while she watched TV. Sometimes she cried because it was too loud and she could hear us. We still see her too.
The other day we saw an old counsellor for the first time in over 30 years. We knew we had disclosed some abuse to her, but none of us front people knew about the father abuse back then. Apparently one of us told her about it then though. We didn't know that. One of the reasons for wanting to see this particular woman now was so we could tell her that. And apparently we did 30 years ago. Oh well.
Anyway, she suggested we sit down and have a conversation with the father about the abuse. I just about fell off my danged chair. Are you freakin serious, woman? 0_o Apparently she was. What would you say to him if he were sitting here now, she asked. We'd be feckin terrified and not say and a damn thing, that's what.
She drew this triangle thing. It said victim, rescuer, perpetrator. Who is here, she asked, pointing to the rescuer position. Father is, he rescues me. Father is all three. We are all three. We are all stuck in the same old roles. We are all the victims, all the rescuers, all the perpetrators.
She asked If we broke this cycle what would you lose?
The only answer is everything. They are family. They are all we have. Without them we are nothing at all.

Edited to add:
We had dinner with them tonight. We sat next to our rapist and his co-offender, and traded small talk and pleasantries over lasagna and apple crumble.
How's that for effed up?
Luce,
I agree this is effed up.

Who wants to give up their family? Walking away from your family and being on your own without other family connections is a very scary idea.

"They are all we have. Without them we are nothing at all." These are your own words.

I want you to think about this: You are 'we' because of the abuse you suffered at their hands.' "You have never been here as one whole and healthy self identifying person because this conflict within you that is connected to your family and that keeps being refreshed by your continued interaction with them.

It is true that giving up family is a process filled with grief: grief over what was and what never was and grief over what was done and not done. There is plenty to grieve over. And if you decide to walk away from them you will have to work through all this grief. BUT ON THE OTHER END OF THIS- is the real possibilty that you can become and know your own one self and that instead of living in parts and peices you can live freely as yourself.

It is, yes, its is a high price to pay for independence; to give up your family. All I can say is that as a person who chose to do this myself, it was the best thing I ever did. I wouldnt be here today if I hadnt done it. The effect being aorund them ahd on me was so pernicious I ahd to free myself from that influence. They actually wanted me to be sick and hurting. That was what I finally understood. [U] This was the basis of their own defense for how they lived and what they did : if I wasnt the crazy one they they had to be-- and such thoughts for my family abusers were unacceptable. They were not willing to confront their own behavior and sickness, so they made me the 'crazy' one in the family so no one else would ever know what they wre really like and what things they did to their own daughter.

[/U
Thanks for this!
Luce, TrailRunner14
  #18  
Old Jun 05, 2016, 01:18 AM
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TrailRunner14 TrailRunner14 is offline
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Please forgive me, but that really seems like a really intrusive and impersonal question.



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  #19  
Old Jun 05, 2016, 01:20 AM
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TrailRunner14 TrailRunner14 is offline
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My name means that at that point in my life I made a deferent decision.

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"What is denied, cannot be healed." - Brennan Manning

"Hope knows that if great trials are avoided, great deeds remain undone and the possibility of growth into greatness of soul is aborted." - Brennan Manning
  #20  
Old Jun 05, 2016, 01:48 AM
Luce Luce is offline
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Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I deleted it.
  #21  
Old Jun 05, 2016, 11:48 AM
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TrailRunner14 TrailRunner14 is offline
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Please forgive me Luce! I'm not sure where that came from. There were other things on my mind and I feel like I over reacted.

I apologize.

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"What is denied, cannot be healed." - Brennan Manning

"Hope knows that if great trials are avoided, great deeds remain undone and the possibility of growth into greatness of soul is aborted." - Brennan Manning
  #22  
Old Jun 05, 2016, 04:54 PM
Luce Luce is offline
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It's okay, I think you were right.
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attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




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