[lynn P.]

This post might not belong here. My daughter's 12(grade 7) and she takes the bus to and from school. When she came home today, she said a boy was allowed to touch a girls(she's 13) breast. My daughter said this has happened 2 other times and the girls is fine with it. She also told me this girl talks openly on the bus about having sex(oral sex). There are grades 4 -7 on the bus.

I called the school and spoke to the vice principle. I don't know how he's going to deal with this but I told him to keep this anonymous. I looked up this girl on Facebook and I was shocked to see pictures of her in her bra and underwear in provocative poses and some with her tongue sticking out. I wonder if her parents bother to look at her Facebook.

I wonder, is this what's happening in todays society or this an isolated thing? Is this how it is, you raise a child till they're 13 and then they're suddenly having sex? This is very scary from a parents view point.

I was 13 over a decade ago and the same thing was happening..I mean, "bra snapping" starts in Jr. High. Girls would leave the house wearing one thing and end up at school in something "sexier". The only difference in today's society is that there is Myspace and Facebook.

Why parents allow their kids to have webcams and cellphones with cams when they're 11/12/13 is beyond me. Even if you're convinced that your kid isn't being a *****, why would you want perverts looking at your kid? Plus, kids are naive. It's amazing what kind of pics a pervert can get a kid to take because they're paying more attention to the kid than a parent. You put a pic up ANYWHERE online and it could end up ANYWHERE.

[AkAngel]

I'm with MochaFrapPlz, I was 13 over three decades ago and it was the same then. Obviously not for you or you would not have asked, I understand that, but it certainly was where I grew up. My first girlfriend was ten and she was pregnant when we started going out.

[lynn P.]

Thank you both for sharing your points of view. I don't think I would be as shocked, if this was her boyfriend sitting with her and this happened. The way it's happening is she just accepts 'free grabs'.

If a parent's going to let their young teen have a facebook account, at least look at it regularly. Even if my daughter was 30, I wouldn't be pleased if she put up underwear pictures. Like MochaFrapPiz said anyone can copy these pictures and I wouldn't want people to get thrills from the pictures. It's very disturbing

I remember riding the bus at 13. Sex was a popular topic of discussion. However, people weren't touching each other like that and stuff... and girls usually weren't so slutty (sorry, I couldn't think of a better word)

but then again that was... almost 6 years ago (OMG I feel old! )

[lynn P.]

I'm beginning to think this degradation is happening more so, because of access to the internet and not enough discussion at home. There's another thread in social chat pointing out Christina Aguleri's(spelling?) new video. Many kids have Ipod Touches in our area and they can watch stuff like this and anything else including porn. They grow up thinking this is what's cool and acceptable. I wonder how this distorts their thinking and perception.

I agree with you Lynn.
I don't like any of it...and my daughter played softball when she was growing up--
no computers or ipod things.

We didn't even go to Disney--we went to the Smithsonian on Summer breaks.

I was her manager, and I taught her to slide (girls don't like to get dirty) etc.. She was a fierce Catcher and batted clean up-----I wanted her to learn to be competitive, and to realize she could do other things (she hated Barbie) in life.
She was MVP on three consequtive years.

My kids actually used to walk to the library to look stuff up and meet with friends---

They even read books!!!!! At 33, and 34 they read books--I love it.

I don't understand it at all---I'm sorry this is happening--hugs to you----theo

[Naturefreak]

What can be done about it?
It's the illegal drugs that are the real problem.
Hopefully it's just a minority . But then again I don't know what teens are up to these days.

I remember being in 7th grade over 30 years ago, and a boy at school tried to look down my top. I had the good sense to glare at him, pull up my neckline, and walk away. There was smoking, drinking, swearing and talk of sex, but I'm sure a lot of it was exactly that. Talk.

Openly touching on the bus shouldn't be allowed, though. You did the right thing talking to the vice principal. Another option might be calling the school board, or bringing it up at a PTA meeting.

As for underage semi-nudity on Facebook, I'm just appalled. I'm on Facebook too, and if I came across those pictures, knowing the girl in them was 13, the first thing I'd do is report the page to Facebook admins.

Or call your local police. There has to be a law against the Facebook pics, and I just had a horrible thought--could the girl in question be ignoring the sexual advances because she is being molested at home? It certainly wouldn't seem to me like this is normal behavior.

[lynn P.]

Here in Canada we have strict privacy laws, so I can't ask the principle what his action plan is. If I was the principle I wouldn't allow these kids to ride the bus anymore and tell their parents. Now I get why people do home schooling. It's sad to hear a young women disrespect herself like this and not care what others think.

[perpetuallysad]

Well, I hope you don't mind this sort of hijacking I'm about to do Lynn, but its fairly on topic and relevant to the discussion.

I've recently become close to a neighborhood family (this has been thrust upon me, I'm generally not one to get involved with other people at all... ). They have 2 girls aged 13 & 14. I carpool both of them (and their 5 year old brother) to school each day. The girls, especially the 14 yr old, have become very open with me (they have an extremely bad family life, but that's another thread and I don't know if I am ready to get into that yet) and she tells me about the things going on at her school, she's an 8th grader, her sister's in the 7th. There are blatant sex acts going on during school functions, sometimes in the literal site of teachers and chaperons, yet nothing is done to stop this. Last year, when she was 12, her 12 year old friend HAD A BABY by another 12 year old. I nearly had a heart attack when she told me this. There are drugs at school ALL THE TIME. Boys are constantly trying to get her to smoke pot with them (as far as I know this is the only drug they are using, but who knows what happens that she doesn't know about). Thankfully, to this point, the girls have both made good decisions, but they have a very bad family life that is most definitely not giving them good, healthy examples of positive choices, and I fear greatly for the track the girls may turn down. These kids are 7th & 8th graders and LOTS of them are having sex, lots of them are doing drugs and drinking. And there seems to be a trend that their parents are encouraging this for a large part, mostly because they do some of the same things. (I don't particularly care if an adult drinks or smokes pot, but I have a problem with them doing with the childrens' knowledge -- the pot -- and with them allowing the children access to such things). We are not talking about 17 or 18 year olds here, these are freaking BABIES. They aren't even in high school yet. I blame the lackadaisical attitude of the teachers for letting the stuff happen at school and I most definitely blame the parents for not caring, nor providing a better example for their kids. Things are getting worse. I'm just 34 and in the short time since I've graduated, things in schools and with young adults have gotten to a scary level. I'm a realistic person, I know kids are going to have sex, I know they are going to experiment with drinking and probably pot (hopefully nothing worse), but at such a young age? My son is heading for 4th grade and each year I get more and more scared. I cannot fathom sending him to this middle school, yet my husband has a good job that will be hard to find anywhere else (besides, he LOVES the university and would be greatly pained to leave it). We live in a small town, about 15k and this sh** is happening here.

[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by LovebirdsFlying

I remember being in 7th grade over 30 years ago, and a boy at school tried to look down my top. I had the good sense to glare at him, pull up my neckline, and walk away. There was smoking, drinking, swearing and talk of sex, but I'm sure a lot of it was exactly that. Talk.

Openly touching on the bus shouldn't be allowed, though. You did the right thing talking to the vice principal. Another option might be calling the school board, or bringing it up at a PTA meeting.

As for underage semi-nudity on Facebook, I'm just appalled. I'm on Facebook too, and if I came across those pictures, knowing the girl in them was 13, the first thing I'd do is report the page to Facebook admins.

Or call your local police. There has to be a law against the Facebook pics, and I just had a horrible thought--could the girl in question be ignoring the sexual advances because she is being molested at home? It certainly wouldn't seem to me like this is normal behavior.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
We both answered at the same time Lovebirdsflying - thanks for the idea - in a few minutes I'm going to check out how to report this girl and warn them she's only 13. She has her birthdate listed as 1993 but I know this is a lie because she's only one grade down and my daughter was born in 1997. She's not ignoring the advances, she encourages them. Thanks for the advise.

[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

Well, I hope you don't mind this sort of hijacking I'm about to do Lynn, but its fairly on topic and relevant to the discussion.

I've recently become close to a neighborhood family (this has been thrust upon me, I'm generally not one to get involved with other people at all... ). They have 2 girls aged 13 & 14. I carpool both of them (and their 5 year old brother) to school each day. The girls, especially the 14 yr old, have become very open with me (they have an extremely bad family life, but that's another thread and I don't know if I am ready to get into that yet) and she tells me about the things going on at her school, she's an 8th grader, her sister's in the 7th. There are blatant sex acts going on during school functions, sometimes in the literal site of teachers and chaperons, yet nothing is done to stop this. Last year, when she was 12, her 12 year old friend HAD A BABY by another 12 year old. I nearly had a heart attack when she told me this. There are drugs at school ALL THE TIME. Boys are constantly trying to get her to smoke pot with them (as far as I know this is the only drug they are using, but who knows what happens that she doesn't know about). Thankfully, to this point, the girls have both made good decisions, but they have a very bad family life that is most definitely not giving them good, healthy examples of positive choices, and I fear greatly for the track the girls may turn down. These kids are 7th & 8th graders and LOTS of them are having sex, lots of them are doing drugs and drinking. And there seems to be a trend that their parents are encouraging this for a large part, mostly because they do some of the same things. (I don't particularly care if an adult drinks or smokes pot, but I have a problem with them doing with the childrens' knowledge -- the pot -- and with them allowing the children access to such things). We are not talking about 17 or 18 year olds here, these are freaking BABIES. They aren't even in high school yet. I blame the lackadaisical attitude of the teachers for letting the stuff happen at school and I most definitely blame the parents for not caring, nor providing a better example for their kids. Things are getting worse. I'm just 34 and in the short time since I've graduated, things in schools and with young adults have gotten to a scary level. I'm a realistic person, I know kids are going to have sex, I know they are going to experiment with drinking and probably pot (hopefully nothing worse), but at such a young age? My son is heading for 4th grade and each year I get more and more scared. I cannot fathom sending him to this middle school, yet my husband has a good job that will be hard to find anywhere else (besides, he LOVES the university and would be greatly pained to leave it). We live in a small town, about 15k and this sh** is happening here.

You're welcome to share your story ((Perpetuallysad)). I'm sorry you're also feeling scared with the way things are - I'm feeling scared too. I've had the sex talk with my daughter and so far she has an excellent head on her shoulders. When I grew up, most were taught to protect our bodies and not just let anyone touch us - if and when that time came it would have to be a special person.

I just looked up the girls profile on Facebook and saw a 'report' button but I doubt this will make a difference. I'll check more in depth tomorrow if I can somehow send a direct email to Facebook. There has to be some law which prevents a 13 yr old from posting bikini shots of herself.

[Evening]

Being 22 myself, it wasn't long ago that I was a teenager.
The thing that I think is the problem- lack of education. Especially on the topic of sex. You want to know what my sex education was? Sitting on the floor putting condoms on chair legs, and being told that the ONLY way you can catch AIDS is through blood (example by teacher- if you catch AIDS through sex it means people have to have an injury in that area). We were even paired up with people we didn't like in the class once and had to discuss certain topics like our own relationships and views.
Needless to say half my friends have children now.

I am touchy when it comes to the label teenagers get, because I was unfairly labeled myself. I have never drank, never smoked, never done drugs, never had sex, but OF COURSE I must have because of how old I was. Before I moved out of home my mother and I always had fights because of her addiction and one day I said that maybe if she wasn't such a ***** I wouldn't exist. If anyone has ever called my mother a slut or a ***** you know that goes down. So she called her friend to have a sook and of all things, her friend suggested that I am on drugs. Not because I was being abused or neglected, but because I am on drugs.
Even when I moved out at 17 my neighbour didn't like me instantly because of my age, she thought I was up to no good. She thought I was going to throw parties and be hassle for her, so she always came over whenever there was noise from my house. She even told me I should be living at home with my parents.
Once I was using the payphone at the shops and 2 women who needed to use the phone stood there and had a good old ***** about me within earshot because I had OBVIOUSLY been on the phone for too long talking to my friends 'how long has she been on there for?' 'I don't know, probably ages' 'excuse me, you need to get of the phone or I'll make a complaint to the manager of the centre and they'll come and deal with you'. I was just trying to make a doctors appointment, pardon me for being a teenager, maybe I'll get my MOTHER to call when she wakes up off the floor next time.

Anyway, I just needed to get that off my chest. It was years ago and to this day it hurts so much to think about. And I think that may be one of the reasons teenagers act the way they do, because they get labeled, and it can kind of tip you on the edge when you know you haven't done anything wrong. Or maybe they have done something wrong. There could be a reason they are acting that way. More work needs to be done to deal with these people in a fair way that doesn't make them feel the need to get defensive.
I definitely think that a lot of teenagers need to be sorted out, the attitude of a lot of them is unbelievable, but for a lot of them there is a bigger cause to the problem, and for a lot of them, well they frankly haven't even done anything.

People have become lazy when it comes to dealing with and educating teenagers. Of course they are going to rebel, the point of being a teenager is to become your own person so you can be a successful adult.

And work needs to be done with the influences they have and self image. These days girls are meant to be thin. If they aren't thin they aren't good enough. I used to be a stick, and people always commented on my appearance, my hair, my size. My friends would even compare me to people I had never even met as to who was thinner, which of course made me feel as though I had to lose weight. Of course as soon as I gained weight people got nasty, and I don't get comments on my appearance the way I used to. People don't tell me I'm pretty and that I should be a model the way they used to. I'm not even fat. (Having said that I can't stand comments on my appearance, it's just to make a point that if you aren't thin you aren't good enough).

It's even the things girls read, I used to read magazines when I was younger, but I stopped after they changed. Back in the 90's when I was reading them they were great, I still have all my old copies. But now they are picking on celebrities, writing articles like 'what makes a girl a skank?' and- this was the LAST straw for me- a step by step guide on how masturbate to have an orgasm. This is something 12 year olds read. THAT'S the influence they have.

A lot of girls are manipulated into having sex, and a lot of people have excuses. The best I ever heard was probably 'I don't want to die a virgin, you never know when you're gonna go'. Now they all have kids.
I was harassed sexually at school because I grew up physically faster than the others, so guys made comments. It was humiliating, as if I don't have enough self image issues as it is. One guy in particular made my life hell and even harassed me in drama while I was standing in front of the class. I had to copy something he had done, so he grabbed his chest because he knew I'd have to touch myself in front of everyone. I said I wasn't going to do it, and I didn't. I knew what he was doing and so did everyone else. I had to stand there while people where whispering.
I'm no prude, but I do think a lot of respect for sex has gone. People just do it because it's good. At 16, while I don't think teenagers are clueless to being in love with someone, they are more vulnerable to being manipulated into a situation that seems okay at the time. Especially with the amount of drugs and alcohol that is done. And a lot of the time it is parents who are supplying that. They are just as clueless to what these substances do. Alcohol for a 15 year old is NOT okay for so many reasons.

And I might just point this out. In Australia the legal age for sex is 16. But the legal age to look at pornography, even a Playboy, is 18. So teenagers are allowed to have sex and be exposed to diseases, AIDS, pregnancy and being taken advantage of 2 years before they are legally allowed to look a a magazine.

I think a lot of work needs to be done, but we can't fully blame THEM can we?

[El-ahrairah]

Yea... when I was 13 it was pretty much like that too, except without the cameras on the phone. Sex was pretty... not a big deal, although we learned quick what to do due to all the pregnant girls.

**** I remember I was only 14 when I had sex.... I didn't feel bad when I did it because I felt I was "In love" lol. It's ok tho, I have no regrets, never got an STD, and a while after that I dated my 2nd bf and had sex with him 2 weeks into dating. I was only 16 at the time, I thought it was ok cause I cared about him and was best friends with him since I was 11 lol.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Babysteps

It's the illegal drugs that are the real problem.

Come again?

I grew up in the '70s smoking weed with all my ol' buds. I was fine until I started hanging round with a girl in my paramedic class and we would get drunk at bars and pick up strangers.

You must have a different perspective than mine.

(((Yoda)))--I grew up in the 70's too--I did the same as you---except I didn't much care for boys--always afraid of them. (Past traumas)I didn't get beyond weed till someone threw some angel dust in a J...didn't touch it again.

Drinking was not really my thing either---One drink, and I was ready to hurl.

(((Evening)))--You are the exception to the rule---love you kiddo!!!--theo

Originally Posted by Babysteps

It's the illegal drugs that are the real problem.

Wait, what..? I don't even..

[lynn P.]

(((Evening))) - thank you for sharing your story and I'm sorry you had to go through this with your mom and home life. I agree not all teenagers are the same.
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Thank you to everyone who responded so far and it's good to see the varied opinions. I think the emotion behind my OP is fear for my own children. I was also shocked at the way this girl behaves. I don't want to believe that my children are ready to have sex at 13 - it's scary. I had my girls late and I admit I have strong values. I also grew up in the late 70's and when I was 13, the kids didn't talk about sex until 16 and up. Girls weren't welcoming random boys to touch them.

I never dated until I was 18 when I met my now present husband. Looking back I regret and wish I waited even longer - I wasn't ready emotionally for a relationship. I regret getting sidetracked from University.

I've already discussed sex in the appropriate way last year with my daughter and we continue to talk - she knows I'm an open book. They're learning it in school right now and we joked that she probably won't learn anything new. My own mom never educated me at all about sex.

Now that I looked up this girl on Facebook, I feel there's something seriously wrong with her or the way she's raised. Her parents/guardian shouldn't allow her to put up these pictures or talk the way she does - profanities. My daughter has Facebook but I know what's on it and she has strict privacy settings, so only allowed people can see her page. With this girl, millions can see her posing in a very small bikini. I'm going to inform the principle about her Facebook and see if I can find an email to directly write to them.

I don't want to believe it's now the norm for kids 13 and up to have sex - I hope they're the minority. I believe access to the internet makes it worse. I also feel sorry for kids who watch porn before they've even had sex. Before there were computers young people explored their sexually the old fashioned way - with the right person this would be a beautiful experience of discovery. Watching porn before a person has sex is like, opening all your Xmas gifts before Xmas morning - it ruins the beautiful moment. With the stuff young people see with music videos etc - sex is portrayed as something dirty and not a beautiful loving experience it should be. It's all so confusing and scary.

[RRU96]

I think that something should be said to the school. While this girl may be "okay" with her actions, I would like to think that her parents are not. Also, how long before these boys decide to do this to someone who may have some form of mental impairment. I have heard it happening down here on the news, and I think just about an entire football team was expelled for it.

I also saw a 20/20 type show where Kids nowadays do not see oral sex as sex. Scarey thought. They probably ALSO dont know that if you have a cold-sore on your mouth (herpes-simplex).... it can be transferred to genitals and will in turn lead to genital herpes.

[IchbinkeinTeufel]

O.O

OMFG!

Well, I'm disgusted.

[AAAAA]

In my opinion the problem is low self esteem and lack of morals. It is my belief that you have to teach your children to respect themselves and their partners. I get really angry when people say that there’s nothing you can do. There IS something you can do, educate your children!

My daughter will be 21 in a couple of months and only recently became sexually active.

I’m very open with my kids. Each and every one of my kids were conceived while I was on one form of birth control or another… my twins after my husband had a vasectomy. Pregnancy IS a natural consequence of sex. Another of my pet peeves is when people complain about the mother/father of their children. YOU chose them! I’ve emphasized to my kids that if this is not the person you are willing to risk having a child with, DON’T do it. We are humans, we have control over our urges.

My state makes any type of sexual contact between people under the age of 18 illegal, and they do prosecute. A very dear friend of ours just got out of jail last week. When he was 16 he pled no contest to having sex and placed on probation until he was 21. Two weeks before he turned 21 he violated his probation by attending a going away party where alcohol was present. 10 months in jail, to the tune of $25 a day, plus lawyer’s fees and court costs. He was to start back at college a few days after he was arrested; he lost all of that money for tuition and nearly a year of his life.

[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by RRU96

I think that something should be said to the school. While this girl may be "okay" with her actions, I would like to think that her parents are not. Also, how long before these boys decide to do this to someone who may have some form of mental impairment. I have heard it happening down here on the news, and I think just about an entire football team was expelled for it.

I also saw a 20/20 type show where Kids nowadays do not see oral sex as sex. Scarey thought. They probably ALSO dont know that if you have a cold-sore on your mouth (herpes-simplex).... it can be transferred to genitals and will in turn lead to genital herpes.

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You made a good point. I did call the vice principle right after I found out. I really hope they'll call both their parents about this - but I can't ask what the schools going to do for privacy reasons(government policy). All I know is, if this were my son or daughter I would want to be notified. This girl is setting a horrible example to young boys that it's okay to touch girls -they may think they can do this to someone else or like you said to a disabled person.

On Monday I'm going to tell the school this girl has bikini shots on Facebook. I copied the picture and if I can, anyone else can - I could even post on Photobucket, Google etc. She's 13 and already has hair extensions I wouldn't want my daughter in a bikini on the internet for anyone to see. Either her parents have no control or they think it's fine - I don't get it. Yes I've also heard that statement about oral sex and I think it's ridiculous - it one of the most intimate acts.

Does anyone knows the rules of Facebook - can a 13 yr old post bikini shots like this?

[AkAngel]

Playing devil's advocate somewhat, I'm rather surprised at the outrage and actions being taken. I don't feel most parents are capable of being good and capable parents and I certainly can't fix that problem. A thirteen year old girl on facebook in a bikini? Calling the school and perhaps the police in an attempt to get this kind of thing stopped seems a bit over zealous in my opinion.

I went to the beach this week and probably saw a hundred or more tweens and young teens in bikini's there for all to see. Clearly this is condoned by society. I mean, they sell thongs in major department stores for five year olds. It's not the way I raised my daughter (and I raised her by myself) but bikini shots of facebook are pretty tame compared to what's going on out there.

Personally, I wouldn't get involved. Thirteen years of inappropriate upbringing isn't going to be rectified because her parents get a call from the school. I think she's more likely to get a beating for embarrassing them.

[lynn P.]

AkAngel - I respect your opinion and I'm open to all views. In my original post I was more concerned about the boy being welcomed to touch the girl on the bus and this has happened before. There are grade 4,5,6,7 and 8 on the bus and I don't think it's right to have this happening on a school bus, where younger children can see this. I don't think I was over zealous in calling the school because it's very inappropriate behavior.

Regarding the Facebook photos. Yes I know it's normal to wear a bikini on the beach but these weren't beach photos and anyone could copy the pictures. I'm sure many parents are fine with their tweens wearing a bikini on the beach but not posted on Facebook. I haven't decided whether I'll tell the school about Facebook. I was considering it, only because it represents a problem with this girls home life - supervision. This girl has been having repetitive problems at school and its rumored she's had sex at the back of the school. Groping shouldn't be allowed on a school bus therefore, I feel justified in calling the school. Who know's maybe next time a boy will decide to touch my daughter because they think it's okay.