[rdgrad15]

Anyone have trouble being assertive which leads to people believing they can just take their anger and frustrations out on you simply because they know you won't say or do anything about it? I have this problem and I always have especially if someone is much older than me. It's something I've been working on and I have gotten a bit better and standing up for myself when it's people my own age lashing out but still not brave enough to do it when it's someone much older. I'm always worried they will find a way to make me out to be the bad person if I'm assertive and tell someone who is older than me to stop taking their anger out on me.

This is super obvious when someone only does it to me but no one else and at times it may even seem like that person doesn't like me. In some cases that can be true but in other cases I think it's just them lashing out because when things are going well then they treat me just fine. It feels more like they just see me as an easy target because they know I won't say anything to stand up for myself. Wish there was a way to become more assertive especially with people way older than me including coworkers without them getting mad and making me out to be a disrespectful person.

[Breaking Dawn]

You're describing me. Same deal all my life. I'm not willing to say anything because I just want to disappear & make it all go away. Yes, for sure, people use people like us to safely get their negative feelings out. I'm so used to it & I usually don't feel any resentment, because my goal is to keep "smooth water", no ripples, which could potentially lead to danger, violence,...

[*Beth*]

I've found, throughout my life, that I'm a genuinely kind and understanding person. Sometimes someone crosses a line, however. When that happens and I assert myself the other person seems shocked by my ability to stand up for myself and they attack me. It feels like they think I was supposed to be "nice" regardless of how much they pushed me. This is a repeat pattern in my life. So what I'm doing, finally, in my late 50's, is trying my best to set healthy boundaries in the beginning...be fair to both myself and to the other person. That way, when I do say "No" or "I don't agree" - they don't act like I just tried to attack them, and start an argument with me.

[MuseumGhost]

This is very close to my experiences with people, too. I've had varying results while trying to work on it and become more assertive. Some have worked, some still hang in the air, somewhere over Lake Michigan....

Something I know I had to work on was not letting things pile up, and then getting frustrated, and perhaps over-reacting. I've been working on giving a more measured, rational response when someone has crossed a boundary with me. That's been the best tactic for me, so far.

I also try to give people a chance to explain their position if I find there is some friction happening. That gives me a chance to hear their point of view, before it all evolves into a misunderstanding, and emotions get tangled, or responses get misconstrued.

Older people can be tricky to deal with, I've found. There's actually so much going on underneath that surface, that I've found it's akin to walking into a mine field. This is situation where it's probably the most important time to become a good listener.

If you suspect it's a case of people simply using you as an excuse to vent their anger, it is permissible to remind them that they don't get to do that. They need to justify that to you somehow, and back it up with an explanation. They have to give you a chance to respond. This gives everyone a fairer chance to be heard, and understood.

Great help from the Mayo Clinic: Being assertive: Reduce stress, communicate better - Mayo Clinic

Best of luck with it all.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by Breaking Dawn

You're describing me. Same deal all my life. I'm not willing to say anything because I just want to disappear & make it all go away. Yes, for sure, people use people like us to safely get their negative feelings out. I'm so used to it & I usually don't feel any resentment, because my goal is to keep "smooth water", no ripples, which could potentially lead to danger, violence,...

Yep I'm the same since I hate causing ripples in the water. I'm a little more brave with people my own age but I still prefer to remain quiet unless I really have to speak up. I'm most likely to speak up if someone is spreading false rumors about me that could seriously damage my reputation or someone else's reputation. Also someone being just a downright toxic person and not showing any signs of stopping will also most likely result in me saying something at some point but that is rare since I prefer to keep the peace.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

I've found, throughout my life, that I'm a genuinely kind and understanding person. Sometimes someone crosses a line, however. When that happens and I assert myself the other person seems shocked by my ability to stand up for myself and they attack me. It feels like they think I was supposed to be "nice" regardless of how much they pushed me. This is a repeat pattern in my life. So what I'm doing, finally, in my late 50's, is trying my best to set healthy boundaries in the beginning...be fair to both myself and to the other person. That way, when I do say "No" or "I don't agree" - they don't act like I just tried to attack them, and start an argument with me.

Yep I know what you mean when people seem shocked when you assert yourself, it's like they thought you were incapable of doing so the whole time. During the rare times I have stood up for myself, I've seen a couple people stand there and stare in disbelief that I said something right back. Most people verbally fight back in anger especially since they're not used to me saying something but a couple have been shocked speechless, a couple times the conversation didn't even continue because they had nothing else to say. I never yelled at anyone because I don't like yelling or screaming but the simple fact that I did something I usually don't do was enough to startle them, just simply saying please stop doing that or something similar is usually enough to either leave someone speechless or they will get defensive because they realize they're loosing their grip on you.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by MuseumGhost

This is very close to my experiences with people, too. I've had varying results while trying to work on it and become more assertive. Some have worked, some still hang in the air, somewhere over Lake Michigan....

Something I know I had to work on was not letting things pile up, and then getting frustrated, and perhaps over-reacting. I've been working on giving a more measured, rational response when someone has crossed a boundary with me. That's been the best tactic for me, so far.

I also try to give people a chance to explain their position if I find there is some friction happening. That gives me a chance to hear their point of view, before it all evolves into a misunderstanding, and emotions get tangled, or responses get misconstrued.

Older people can be tricky to deal with, I've found. There's actually so much going on underneath that surface, that I've found it's akin to walking into a mine field. This is situation where it's probably the most important time to become a good listener.

If you suspect it's a case of people simply using you as an excuse to vent their anger, it is permissible to remind them that they don't get to do that. They need to justify that to you somehow, and back it up with an explanation. They have to give you a chance to respond. This gives everyone a fairer chance to be heard, and understood.

Great help from the Mayo Clinic: Being assertive: Reduce stress, communicate better - Mayo Clinic

Best of luck with it all.

Yep I agree with you, it's tricker with older people since there's a sense of superiority. If you stand up to them, they essentially have the ability to make you out to be a disrespectful person. This is why I never stand up to coworkers, I know quite a few of them that would run to admin and say I was being rude or inappropriate if I ever stood up to them and told them to stop doing something even in the most polite manner. I have come very close but I always keep in mind that I need a job and also I work with kids so it wouldn't be professional to sink to their level in front of students, outside of work it may be a bit easier though to stand up for yourself.

[unaluna]

In the 80's, we used to say, "Be assertive, not aggressive." For a minute there, i thought assertive was the negative one. Or maybe times have changed.

I once told my mother, dont think because i didnt respond to your insult, that it didnt register. Boy that stopped her in her tracks. She thought she was getting away with carp all that time. But as my dad used to say, someone has to keep the peace or else there would be arguments all the time. But it did not make for a happy family.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by MuseumGhost

This is very close to my experiences with people, too. I've had varying results while trying to work on it and become more assertive. Some have worked, some still hang in the air, somewhere over Lake Michigan....


Something I know I had to work on was not letting things pile up, and then getting frustrated, and perhaps over-reacting. I've been working on giving a more measured, rational response when someone has crossed a boundary with me. That's been the best tactic for me, so far.

Exactly - you've described this so well, I think. Certainly something I am working on.

I also try to give people a chance to explain their position if I find there is some friction happening. That gives me a chance to hear their point of view, before it all evolves into a misunderstanding, and emotions get tangled, or responses get misconstrued.

Yes, I believe it's so important for all involved, to be an active listener.

Older people can be tricky to deal with, I've found. There's actually so much going on underneath that surface, that I've found it's akin to walking into a mine field. This is situation where it's probably the most important time to become a good listener.

What an interesting observation, MG. Sadly, my own parents and all aunts and uncles died before I could really call them very old. The one grandmother (lived to be 100) who really was old, while actually always kind to me, was cantankerous from - well, from what I always heard, all of her life. So I don't think she was a good measuring stick. Hopefully there will be some truly old people around for me to have experiences with - and I'll be truly old enough to experience them!

If you suspect it's a case of people simply using you as an excuse to vent their anger, it is permissible to remind them that they don't get to do that. They need to justify that to you somehow, and back it up with an explanation. They have to give you a chance to respond. This gives everyone a fairer chance to be heard, and understood.

Yes. That is what I'm working on. It's tough when "that" person is so extremely defensive, I simply cannot speak without an attack occurring, unless the topic is either of interest to him or is entirely benign.

Great help from the Mayo Clinic: Being assertive: Reduce stress, communicate better - Mayo Clinic

Darn link won't work. But, thank you, anyway. I understand the concept.

Best of luck with it all.

Thank you, MG - and to you, too

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[*Beth*]

In the '90's I was seeing an outstanding psychologist. He taught me that the most effective way to communicate was to be validating (validate the other's position) and assertive (assert your own position).

Sounds easy; it often is not. A smart habit to practice.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by unaluna

In the 80's, we used to say, "Be assertive, not aggressive." For a minute there, i thought assertive was the negative one. Or maybe times have changed.

I once told my mother, dont think because i didnt respond to your insult, that it didnt register. Boy that stopped her in her tracks. She thought she was getting away with carp all that time. But as my dad used to say, someone has to keep the peace or else there would be arguments all the time. But it did not make for a happy family.

Yep it's always interesting to see people's reaction when you are assertive and they're not expecting it. Sometimes it's genuine shock and other times it's verbal retaliation which is usually the case. I agree I like to try to keep the peace as well and I've always been that way since I really don't like confrontation. Also I used to think being assertive meant you were aggressive as well which technically it can be if your assertive in a hostile way which I've seen happen before.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yep I'm trying to work on being more assertive to especially towards those who are older than me. I'm more likely to be assertive towards those who are around my age but even then I still struggle.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

In the '90's I was seeing an outstanding psychologist. He taught me that the most effective way to communicate was to be validating (validate the other's position) and assertive (assert your own position).

Sounds easy; it often is not. A smart habit to practice.

Yep it's one of those scenarios where it's easier said than done.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

Yep it's one of those scenarios where it's easier said than done.

It is. But what an effective practice, and one that is of benefit for all who communicate.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

It is. But what an effective practice, and one that is of benefit for all who communicate.

Yep I agree with you.

[Mendingmysoul]

I had a freeze response if someone attacked me verbally. People figured out I was a safe person to vent,emotionally dump and I won't retaliate. Did it start in your childhood? Such people are afraid of people, who fight back,put a boundary or retaliate.They identify and then target people who tolerate their emotional toxic dump.What I do is...if done repeatedly I go low contact with such person.They will find another target.I don't believe healthy discussions are possible with such people ,when their primary objective is to crap all over you to relieve themselves of their emotional diarrhea, so to speak.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul

I had a freeze response if someone attacked me verbally. People figured out I was a safe person to vent,emotionally dump and I won't retaliate. Did it start in your childhood? Such people are afraid of people, who fight back,put a boundary or retaliate.They identify and then target people who tolerate their emotional toxic dump.What I do is...if done repeatedly I go low contact with such person.They will find another target.I don't believe healthy discussions are possible with such people ,when their primary objective is to crap all over you to relieve themselves of their emotional diarrhea, so to speak.

I have the same freeze response, I just take whatever people say to me unless it's so outrageous that something needs to be said. It definitely started in childhood, I wasn't really allowed to stand up for myself or be assertive, any form of assertion was met with a verbal retaliation so bad that if I was much older and able to just walk out of the house then I would've done so since the urge to just simply walk out was there. I also go low contact with people like that as well, if I sense they're in a bad mood then I will avoid them too until I know they're in a good mood. It's one thing if they just want to talk about something that happened and need someone to listen to and I'm okay with that, it's another thing to absolutely lose your crap on someone just because you know they won't do anything about it and you see them as a punching bag and can get away with it.

[Mendingmysoul]

People who use children or younger ones as emotional trashcans, they absolutely disgust me.They are cowards who target helpless children who cannot defend themselves. And we are groomed since childhood tobe that person who tolerates toxic people's crap.When more and more of the same happens,sometimes we tend to think it's kinda normal until we wake up and realize. I am glad that now you are aware and asking these questions. As an adult you have the power now to put a boundary if needed.I am doing the same.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul

People who use children or younger ones as emotional trashcans, they absolutely disgust me.They are cowards who target helpless children who cannot defend themselves. And we are groomed since childhood tobe that person who tolerates toxic people's crap.When more and more of the same happens,sometimes we tend to think it's kinda normal until we wake up and realize. I am glad that now you are aware and asking these questions. As an adult you have the power now to put a boundary if needed.I am doing the same.

Yep I agree, hate it when adults use children or punish them because they’re in a bad mood and want to dump their toxic crap on them. It can even happen in schools, I can usually tell when a teacher is yelling at their kids just because their in a bad mood and just dumping their crap on the students. I can always spot the difference between a teacher getting mad for a legitimate reason and a teacher that’s on a power trip due to being in a bad mood, I’ve definitely gotten better at setting boundaries especially with people my own age and I’m glad you’re getting better too. I’m still struggling with much older people especially coworkers, usually I’ll just low key avoid them or ignore them if they try to tell me what to do when they’re not actually the boss.

[eskielover]

I always tried to be diplomatic with my assertiveness even way back in grade school (almost 70 now). Many took that as not meaning what I said. They regretted pushing the issue because when pushed past my boundary they soon learned to never do it again. There were times when hearing people say "don't mess with her" I knew my point had come across loud & clear. Growing up I pretty much had to stand alone & even during my marriage. Took me quite awhile to learn over the last 15 years what it is like to have people standing there with me & some people are still learning not to mess with me but now I have a strong community standing with me

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I always tried to be diplomatic with my assertiveness even way back in grade school (almost 70 now). Many took that as not meaning what I said. They regretted pushing the issue because when pushed past my boundary they soon learned to never do it again. There were times when hearing people say "don't mess with her" I knew my point had come across loud & clear. Growing up I pretty much had to stand alone & even during my marriage. Took me quite awhile to learn over the last 15 years what it is like to have people standing there with me & some people are still learning not to mess with me but now I have a strong community standing with me

That's good you've learned to be assertive. Yeah I try to be diplomatic too since I don't want to come off as overly rude or arrogant when I'm being assertive. That's another reason I'm not very assertive because I don't want people to see me as rude or arrogant. Unfortunately I have seen people who are very arrogant try to play the assertive card to get their way so that's why I'm careful to not cross that line.

[Discombobulated]

You know I think this is one of these things which can come with practice (and maybe age). I think it was true of me once, it’s less so now, and now I’m trying to think how I did become more assertive.

I agree with Beth’s advice about validating but not necessarily agreeing. It’s stating your truth I feel. That’s not the same as THE truth of course, but it’s acknowledging we can have different views and that’s okay. I wonder if part of not being assertive is wound up in fear of conflict. Conflict is normal and healthy at. times though.

As a retail worker I get people blowing their tops at me frequently, their favourite product isn’t in stock and that’s all it takes for some individuals to rant at the store assistant. I find this more difficult because of the power balance, it’s the customer always being right even if they’re wrong and we have to diffuse constantly. It’s wearing but it’s part of my job - I validate, apologise and smooth over - I really would like to tell them to get some perspective but that’s not allowed. I don’t indulge their temper any longer than necessary though and cut the interaction short as soon as possible.

Not sure if any of that helped but can only encourage you to keep on practicing that assertiveness when appropriate, it’s really only stating your truth, you can do it firmly but kindly and it does get easier in my experience.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by Discombobulated

You know I think this is one of these things which can come with practice (and maybe age). I think it was true of me once, it’s less so now, and now I’m trying to think how I did become more assertive.

I agree with Beth’s advice about validating but not necessarily agreeing. It’s stating your truth I feel. That’s not the same as THE truth of course, but it’s acknowledging we can have different views and that’s okay. I wonder if part of not being assertive is wound up in fear of conflict. Conflict is normal and healthy at. times though.

As a retail worker I get people blowing their tops at me frequently, their favourite product isn’t in stock and that’s all it takes for some individuals to rant at the store assistant. I find this more difficult because of the power balance, it’s the customer always being right even if they’re wrong and we have to diffuse constantly. It’s wearing but it’s part of my job - I validate, apologise and smooth over - I really would like to tell them to get some perspective but that’s not allowed. I don’t indulge their temper any longer than necessary though and cut the interaction short as soon as possible.

Not sure if any of that helped but can only encourage you to keep on practicing that assertiveness when appropriate, it’s really only stating your truth, you can do it firmly but kindly and it does get easier in my experience.

Yeah I agree that it definitely takes practice and I think we get better with age since I'm definitely better now than I was back in high school. Yeah it's very hard to not tell people like it is at work since I have similar experiences where students will go off and you're not allowed to say anything other than deescalate. This even goes for coworkers who get mad over nothing and I see that a lot as well. In some cases coworkers can be just as bad or even worse than the students so it definitely requires lots of patience and I'm sorry you have to deal with that and being afraid of conflict is definitely the reason many are not assertive.

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

That's good you've learned to be assertive. Yeah I try to be diplomatic too since I don't want to come off as overly rude or arrogant when I'm being assertive. That's another reason I'm not very assertive because I don't want people to see me as rude or arrogant. Unfortunately I have seen people who are very arrogant try to play the assertive card to get their way so that's why I'm careful to not cross that line.

Thing is that if nice doesn't work with some people then I get firm & direct & let them know I gave them a chance & they blew it. Lol....the older I get the less I care about not crossing a line but mostly I work at communicating my thoughts firmly in the first place so people know exactky where I stand. If they don't like it then they can choose not to associate with me.....no loss but they don't take their anger out on me because there will be a battle & they usually don't want to go there.

I think DBT interpersonal relationships section is a really good place to start for strengthening assertiveness skills. It reinforced skills I already had & taught me others.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by eskielover

Thing is that if nice doesn't work with some people then I get firm & direct & let them know I gave them a chance & they blew it. Lol....the older I get the less I care about not crossing a line but mostly I work at communicating my thoughts firmly in the first place so people know exactky where I stand. If they don't like it then they can choose not to associate with me.....no loss but they don't take their anger out on me because there will be a battle & they usually don't want to go there.

I think DBT interpersonal relationships section is a really good place to start for strengthening assertiveness skills. It reinforced skills I already had & taught me others.

Yeah that is true, some people really need to learn the hard way. I see what you mean by not caring as much as you get older, I'm that way to a certain extent when it comes to people my own age. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is in a tactful manner, some people need the wake up call. It's dealing with people much older that I need to work on, I need to work on being more verbally assertive without them trying to make me look bad because they perceive me as being disrespectful even though I'm an adult as well since some older adults still see adults at least 10 years younger than them as children in a sense and there's even been some older adults that talked to me the same way you would talk to a child which isn't appropriate and that's one of the places I need to draw the line at.