Just got some sad news

It's a gift that keeps on giving even if I can't email him or call him or touch him.





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Where does your son stands? The poor guy loves you and loves her ... and loves the children!

gab

I've mentioned it before, that I can't deal with the DIL until I get through my mourning, or at least the worst of it.

Dealing with my ex MIL's passing is going to be yet another uphill climb that won't be nearly as easy as getting through Neil's death. Jerry talked to our daughter last night and she was more ready to talk about the funeral than my oldest son. About all Jerry relayed to me was that my daughter had to leave the reception after the funeral because my ex was "being so pissy." That brought back all kinds of visions and played so many old, buried tapes that started a horrible rant until my husband couldn't take it any more.

For starters, I'm already angry that my ex didn't let me know she had passed away. It took my oldest son to tell me when I let him know about Neil. This was two days after my MIL's funeral.

Last night, I knew that my ex is getting ready to go into another scizophernic episode. But instead of feeling any empathy, I was glad! I want to see him writhe in agony for all the abuse he heaped on me. Forty years ago, I told him how his life would end if he didn't get some help and it's come about. His third wife stays with him only because she knows he wouldn't have anybody if he didn't have her. She broadcasts the fact that her bedroom is upstairs because she knows he can't climb the stairs. If I was in his place, I would rather be alone! But that's something he's never been able to do. When he and I divorced, he moved back in with his mother... during a scizo episode. My MIL would call me every day telling me what he had done or said now. She eventually moved out and left him "alone, again, naturally." That was his theme song.

Enough for now. I can feel the anger building and my blood pressure rising. This one, I'm gonna have to take in small, easy steps.

Over and out...




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

***This one, I'm gonna have to take in small, easy steps.***

Hi (((((((((((((((((Tomi))))))))))))))))): I think this advice you've given is very good. Everything that is going on is too much to take all at once. Don't let the bastards win, i.e., don't let all of this make you sick = you don't deserve that.

More hugs ...

XOXO, Jillers

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT</font color=blue>

Tomi, that is rough. This lady meant something to you, but you weren't even told of her passing until after the funeral. Funerals are for the loved ones left behind. They help us to make sense of our feelings, and to find some closure. It must hurt to be deprived of that, and also the fact that they knew she was important to you and didn't tell you.

{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}

<font color=orange>"Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill "</font color=orange>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jillers}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} You know me! But this time it isn't about me winning. There has to be winners on all sides, especially the kids. The kids win, we all win.




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Yeah, I've got a hard road ahead of me. Don't have any other choice but to take it step by step.

I've been thinking alot about what you've said about my DIL and wanted to tell you that I understand. Things have cleared up a bit more today because I've made it a point to not talk about her but to think and feel. Yes, I know how inadequate she feels. Everybody tells her to get it together, to clean her house, to do this, do that. I thought I had done better by her by going over and doing some of the cleaning for her, by showing her shortcuts, getting her involved. She just pouts when I try to get her to do something. Her dad raised her to think that she was to be served the rest of her life and that she should surround herself with people that would do for her.

I understand that she's acting out of fear. I did too, when I was her age and had two kids. Everybody in her life tells her how and when to do everything. Her mother has even helped her clean house on occasion. I was going over every week for 2-3 days! She never got it that she was supposed to try to keep it that way. I no sooner cleaned the living room floor and she'd be using it as a waste basket again! What do you do with a person like that??

When my son asks her what she wants me to do or stop doing, all she says is "She has to get her head together." What's that supposed to mean? She won't give specifics. I'm thinking that what she wants is for me to act like her family does, to think like them. I can't do that! I've been there and had to work too hard to get better!

Ok, this is getting to be too much about me so I'm going to stop now and get back in the right frame of mind. I do understand where you're coming from, Wendy. I don't plan to do or say anything until I take care of me and "get my head together."




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Tomi}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Step by step sounds like the way to take it. I do feel for you, very much, and I'm glad that you are able to understand my point and step back and consider what it would be like to be her. Since you've been a young mother, and she has not been a mother-in-law, that might just be what it takes to work this out. It would be much harder for her to empathise with you, since she lacks the frame of reference. I really, sincerely, hope that this situation gets better soon.

<font color=orange>"Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill "</font color=orange>

{{{{{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Thanks for your advise, whether I paid for it or not. LOL It still counts.

My grief for Neil seems to be taking top priority so I'm going to get throught that first. The hurt and anger I felt for being left out of my ex MIL's death and funeral was a burst the other night, but nothing is coming up again for now so I'm going to concentrate getting through the greiving period for Neil, awaiting his funeral services... not until July 8, which is a real puzzlement to me ... and just dealing with that and whatever else comes up, but I promise not to take any action on the family front until I'm thinking more clearly.

Just an aside, Kiddo... When I was trying to get through your first post about my DIL, I kept thinking "What about ME? What about the kids? What about my son?" I've sorted that out and realized that I have to take care of me first before I can take care of anything else. I guess that's what was upsetting to me... that I was needing to take care of me. I didn't want to hear about anything else. Thanks for having the courage to hang in with me. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Still feeling lost... Does anyone believe that spirits can visit us after they've passed? Neil feels very close to me and it's enjoyable, but... why me? Why isn't he with his mother or brother?

Then there's the guilt that I don't think about my ex MIL very often. I try... I think of her and see her when she was listening to Blue Grass music, but not much comes up. I try to remember the times that she desperately wanted to spend alone time with me and I can't remember what we talked about. Maybe in time...

Neil and my ex MIL had something in common. They both suffered with migraine headaches. I have them, too, sometimes, when the stress and anxiety gets too much to bear. Migraines can sometimes lead to strokes. Can they lead to brain cancer, too? Then the fear sets in...




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Their spirits come and visit their loved ones I believe ...
My dad had a very dear friend that came to him a few days after he died and told him how to take care of some unfinished business my dad didn't even know about. He was skeptical, but went ahead and did what his friend asked him to do, and at the end, it turned out that were things very important and needed!!

Keep your ears and eyes open, maybe Neal needs you.

gab

I'll do that, Gloria. Neil's mom told me that his brother felt like he had to go back to San Francisco and check out Neil's apartment one more time, looking for some closure for himself. Maybe something will come up then. For me, it just feels like he's trying to comfort me by staying close. Maybe it's like Dave (Dexter) said, that I made his life easier by simply accepting him and loving him with no reservations. It could be his way of thanking me.

Just the same, I'll keep my ears and eyes open.

Thanks for understanding! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Gloria}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

SeptMorn

Although I don't have any answers to this, I do have strong feelings about the question.

I do believe that spirits can visit us... maybe. Specifically, I believe that we as humans can and often do experience the feeling that someone has come to visit us and to comfort us. This might be something that our brains manifest, a way to comfort us (IOW a powerful instance of imagination) or it might be because spirits physically exist and are able to make "contact" in some way...

Or it might be something in between the two. That's where I personally believe the answer lies. Who is to say "what" a spirit is? Some form of energy left behind by the departed? If so we also have this "energy" while we are living, so who is to say we can't subconsciously project it to manifest a spirit? Maybe that "attracts" the spirit in question? Maybe we are pulling on the "imprint" that person left on us while they were still alive? That would certainly be akin to "keeping someone alive in our memory" in a more physical sense.

So there's a lot of metaphysical hoo-ha for you, but the bottom line is that this is a question that it may be impossible to ever answer, at least while we are alive. I believe the important thing is our belief and accepting the comfort that such an experience may give us. It may only increase anxiety to question it. Questioning it brings science into the equation, whereas this is really a matter of faith. I am a "man of science" but I have faith as well, for many things that are outside the realm of science... and I believe trying to mix the two rarely brings about any positive results.

(Back to the hoo-ha ) if a "spirit" is something that we manifest, either through memory or energy, then that spirit can manifest in several locations simultaneously. OTOH if there are physical spirits, they may very well exist outside the world of space and time as we know it. For them "being in two places at once" may have little meaning for them, just as we can talk on the phone, chat on the internet, and have a local discussion all at the same time.

So if you find yourself needing some "explanation" just remember that almost anything is possible. Defer to the realm of faith and accept his visits for what they are to you. And don't try to rationalize your memories of your MIL. I agree with you, give it time. Maybe they know, or maybe deep down inside you know, that for right now dealing with one at a time is the best thing for you to do.

------------------------------------
--http://www.idexter.com

Tomi,

I believe that spirits can and do visit us. Maybe he is around you because you are thinking of him so much and he recognizes that you need the comfort he can give you. Maybe you are more receptive to him now than others he might also visit, or, who is to say that he is only hanging around you? Spirits are not subject to physical limitations such as how long it takes us to travel from one place to another.

The fact that you aren't thinking about your ex-MIL so much doesn't mean that you aren't grieving appropriately for her or didn't love her enough or any of those things. It's possible that you already did some of the grieving for her back when she was not so much a part of your life anymore. Or maybe it isn't the time right now for you to be thinking of her, and maybe you will think about her more at some other time - maybe two at once is just more than you can process. Just a couple of ideas, but remember there is no right or wrong way to grieve.

{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Wendy

<font color=orange>"Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill "</font color=orange>

Thanks, Dave. What you say makes a lot of sense. It could very well be a product of my own imagination but that doesn't preclude that I strongly believe in the spirit world. There is definately and "energy" to a person while we are alive and I have no doubt that our "energy" continues to live on after that energy has discarded the material body. There are "scientists" that work at proving and/or identifying these energies. My aunt left me with a healthy curiosity about the subject, so at times I indulge that curiosity in a variety of ways.

But... and it's a large "BUT" ... I've purposely never gotten involved to the point of proving it to myself any more than "it" has proven "itself" to me. What I've experienced is enough.

But on the other hand...:
First, my Bible says that we "have a cloud of witnesses" around us. Second, I had an aunt that strongly believed in the spirit world and claimed to communicate with them. She claimed to have a "Spirit Guide" which is where I draw the line. This aunt also answered something for me that was very freaky. It wasn't only me that saw and heard things. We actually lived in a haunted house when I was a child. Once, I heard footsteps down the very long hallway of this house that went on and on. I screamed and she came running and took me out of the room I was in. She proceeded to tell the rest of us what she had seen. It actually corroborated what I had heard. (shiver!) It wasn't nice! Third, my oldest son and I were visited by my mom's mother's spirit. My son actually saw her. I only felt the coldness of the place where she had been sitting. Numerous times, I've smelled her smell. When I tell her to be gone, she goes. I've seen my dad's spirit, although at the time, I didn't realize who it was. Other times, I've smelled his aftershave. There were no open windows or doors or drafts where it could have traveled from another source into where I was.

Often, I have thought it strange that I have never had any manifestations of my mother, but when I stop and think about it, SHE didn't believe or didn't WANT to believe that there is communication between the spirit world and this one. Yet, I felt her strength of spirit/character when she was in the mortuary. My half-brother and his family were with me. They and my mother hadn't gotten along well at all when she was married to my dad. While at the mortuary, I tried to open her coffin and it wouldn't budge. I even called the attendant and she said that the coffin my mom was in wasn't a locking model. She couldn't explain why none of us could open it. I can! It's simple! My mother didn't want my brother or his family to see her. My mother's family also thought it in terribly bad taste... or something... to be seen after one dies.

To tell you the truth, I'm very surprised that Neil has been with me. But what it boils down to is that I don't feel worthy of his presence. Who am I that he should want to be around me? Yes, we made a connection while he was here, but I guess I never realized how strong that connection was. It's very possible that what you said before is true; that I made a small part of his life happy because I didn't judge or "tolerate." I Accepted. Neil told me that he had never discussed his homosexuality with his family. He felt that if they didn't know, it's because they didn't want to. He asked me to promise that I would never discuss it with them and I never will.

As for the spirit being able to be more than one place at one time; why not? Spirits don't have the normal constraints on them that our human bodies have. Again, the unexpectedness of Neil's presence around me just comes down to my own failure to see me as others see me. It prompts me to ask "Why me?" Why not his mother, brother, his partner... Maybe he's been with them and they just aren't sharing the experience.

You're right. To delve into the question too deeply just causes if not anxiety, then doubt. "Oh, ye of little faith!" Best to just accept what is and enjoy... No questions, no analizings. Just let it BE.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dave}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Have I told you lately how much I appreciate you and your mind? WOW! What an outlet you've provided for me!




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Well, Wendy, it seems I've already answered your comments in my responses to Dave and Susan. You and I are on the same page, I think. Obviously, or not... there wasn't that much left to resolve with my ex MIL. And then again, her time will come, too. I don't know. The best thing to do is just let things be as they are and see what happens.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Thanks for your validation of what I'm thinking to be true, too.




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>