Just got some sad news

Ah, Dave! I knew you'd come through for me! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dave}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Thanks for the laughs, too! I'd love to see her getting pulled through that keyhole! She doesn't deserve any less! And where can I find a collar like you mentioned? No doubt at a store that sells training implements for dogs, eh? LOL

There's no doubt in my mind that she never thought of what she was doing to the kids. She's so wrapped up with getting even with me for something so completely stupid that all she could think of was to hurt me. Well, she did and I'm sure she knows exactly what went on inside. Maybe she'll stop and think of all the tears that were shed on both sides and think twice before she accuses me of thriving on chaos! Lord have mercy! She's so busy pointing a finger at me that she forgets there's three more pointing at her!!

Dave, a special thank you for meeting me where I am right now. All the validation I need for all the anger and frustration I feel towards her and that I'm not wrong in thinking she's Evil! I have no doubt that her ultimate goal is to come between my son and I permanently.

ARGH! Enough of that! Thanks again.

PS And thanks for my special hug. I've been looking for it.





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Nightdream, it's comfy here in your heart. I know you understand.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Nightdream}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Tomi, just saying I'm sorry is not going to help - I know that. I don't think your DIL is any kind of mother at all. Regardless of your relationship with her, those are your grandchildren - you have a moral right to see your blood.

To use children or simply ignore their tears is inhuman. I can't stand to see my son in tears - if someone has caused it, I become inhuman and watch out! They are so young to feel this separation anxiety from you.

I'm sorry. Your DIL is a ****** and doesn't deserve to have those children or your help. Throw her down a well to rot and be done with it.

I love you dearly.............hmmmmmm, some saying about people that throw rocks shouldn't live in glass houses.

My thoughts and support will always be with you.

Mary Alice

<font color=red>Don't you just hate it when life doesn't follow the manuals? - Author Unknown</font color=red>

So sorry to hear this, I am also sorry my reply is late.
I wish you comfort as time passes, grieving is really hard, but is natural thing we all sooner or later will experience, and there is no set time limit as to when a person should or should not grieve. This affects people in so many different ways, as I am learning by the loss of my dad, I get days it seemed like it was just yesterday and I will get weepy, then days I can laugh to myself remembering his sayings and even his "put downs" at us kids.
I hate when ignorant people say, "you have to get over it", there is no easy way and I tell people that say that to me off (I can get rather snippy, as we all know) when you love someone and know them most of your life, even our pets, you just don't "get over it" 1-2-3, it takes time.
I wish I could remember the person here that told me that this becomes something, losing someone, a thing we just accept in time, but never means you don't miss that special person or pet, some how life and time helps us to carry on.
Okay, I yacked your ear off enough, but want you to know that I feel for you. . .it is tough.

(((((((((((((((((((( Sept )))))))))))))))))

DE

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

Thank you {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Will you help me throw her into the well after Dave and I get done pulling her through the key hole? LOL

Morals and rights don't apply to this *****. She has no morals and thinks she's the only one with rights of any kind. She sits in judgement of people when what she does is worse than anything she's seen in her young life.




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

An extra tight {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DE}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} for you! You didn't yack my ear off. I have similar experiences with the loss of my mother over 20 yrs ago. Sometimes it feels like just yesterday and sometimes I can either laugh or argue with her in my mind. The old tapes of critisizm play in my head and I'll argue with her then realize that she probably knows that she was wrong. That's when my love for her floods in and I'll cry, miss her and then hold her memory in my heart.

I've been going around singing to myself a hymn that my ex MIL used to love; "Precious Memories." Yes, they are; the good, loving memories I have of her. Then the scenery that Neil and I saw together floats into my mind; the San Francisco coast. Beautiful! He was gay and his partner was with us, but at one point, he put his arms around me from behind and rested his chin on my shoulder. The memory of that moment has brought healing to my heart many times as it does now. Also, the anger at him dropping my camera and breaking it! That's when I get mad at him for dying. He never even said he was sorry!

Oh, jeeez... talking about yacking someone's ear off. Sorry 'bout that.




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

That's fine, yack all you want, it is good to talk to others about this stuff, and anyone with compassion could understand these vivid memories we posess, they just have a way of imprinting permanent photographs of time lost but not forgotten

Sincerely,
DE

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

This is just what you need to be doing. Tell us all about Neil and his humor and his friends and your relationship and his relationship to the children. What did he look like? How did you meet? What was most special about him? Keep it up, your doing great. I am so sorry great means tremendous pain.

You want to know about my Neil? Hmmm... I guess the best thing is that I loved him more than I knew. We met about 25 yrs ago when a next door neighbor of mine got a divorce and his wife and kids left. There was a steady stream of young men coming and going but I'm not making any judgements about Ted. All I know is that Neil came and stayed. Ted introduced us to him and Neil and I formed a bond right away. My daughter didn't like him because he was gay, my oldest son and one of his cousins used to spy into their kitchen window from our bathroom window and several times came out running and screaming "EEEWWWWWW!!" I made them stop spying because I didn't want Ted and Neil to hear them raising a ruckus. Can't remember what kind of a relationship our middle son had with him, but Neil took to "the baby" and the baby took to him.

Neil was blonde with curly hair and emerald green eyes... maybe about 5'8" or 5'9" and thin as a rail. Boy, did he like his sleep!

Neil always had special little insignificant "things" for his "Little Johnny." He'd address John seriously and would tell him he had something at the house for him. I can see it like it was yesterday "Little Johnny" taking Neil's finger and going next door with him. My daughter thought I was a horrible mother for letting John go, but I know that it's one thing to be gay and something totally different to be a perverted child molester. One has nothing to do with the other.

Actually, Neil and I became closer when he and Ted moved to another part of town. We made more of an effort to have quality time. Neil taught me to sew and make my own patterns. He told me that he once interviewed with Richard Chamberlain to be his wardrobe master, but Richard turned him down because Neil was younger that he. LOL

When we'd talk about my crush on Richard Chamberlain and I'd say "What a waste!" -- meaning that RC was gay, too, Neil would answer "Maybe for you but not for me!" and give me an evil grin. LOLOL

We'd play argue about which method was better, crocheting or knitting. He knitted like a royal fiend and I plodded along with my crocheting.

One Christmas, not too long ago, he rescued me from the pit of despair and insisted I come visit him in San Francisco. He introduced me to the Castro District (gay part of town), to sushi and to a magnificent restaurant on the beach. We had New Year's breakfast there with a harpist playing holiday music in the background. If it hadn't been Neil I was with, I could have fallen in love... maybe I did... just a little bit. After breakfast is when we walked around and looked at the ruins of the "bath houses" and took pictures. That's when he put his arms around me and rested his chin on my shoulder. (tears) We made a love connection but not one between man and woman. Maybe one of spirits. ... ... ...

I could go on and on, but that's enough for now...

Thank you so much, Wise Woman.




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Hi (((((((((((((((((Tomi))))))))))))))))))...

One thing I wanted to mention that you may have (or will) notice, too, is that your grief about Neil, (as mine was with Karl), is more 'pure' than other losses/grief we have dealt with.

No love/hate, guilt, abuse/forgiveness, etc., mixed in - just 'pure', spiritual honoring of the gift of who they were and tears at letting go type grief. I know I still 'enjoy' (I know, wierd word), thinking about Karl, whereas thinking about other deaths, like that of my Mom, makes me feel 'mixed' and more 'comlex' emotions that aren't ever really comfortable or comforting. Even the grief bursts at the beginning are more 'pure' and can be experienced fully and with an open heart.

Hope this makes sense - sometimes I don't always get things out quite the way I mean it, and this particular thing doesn't even lend itself to mere words...

Even my initial intense grief over Karl's death had a pure beauty about it that I look back on and feel good about now - like there was beauty in the work of the grief, that again, is so very different from the complex struggle involved in grieving the death of my Mom.

XOXO, Jillers

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT</font color=blue>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jillers}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I certainly understand the "pure" part... which makes the pain much more exquisite, the memories more vivid, the "feeling" of him more near... Quite a new experience for me. I've had men friends before, but nothing like this... again, the "purity" of it all...

Thanks, Hun... your words along with my own feelings of agreement and understanding came across just fine.

Gulping down the knot in my throat as Jerry nags at me to come out to the back yard with him.





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

{{{{{{{{{{Tomi}}}}}}}}}}}

Please don't hate me for what I have to say. This has been painful for me to read. I am very sad for you for the loss of your friend and your ex-MIL, and I continue to offer my condolences. The situation with your DIL and your grandchildren is much harder for me to deal with, which is why the best I was able to do yesterday was give you some hugs in your other thread, but I was at a loss here. We need to remember that this story has two sides. I am very sad for you and for your grandchildren that you are prevented from seeing them. Children need grandparents. And parking in the car with the children in front of your house and not allowing them to get out was totally uncalled for and mean, to all of you. But the mother of these children, while she makes mistakes and it sounds like she really struggles with her role as a mother and homemaker sometimes, is trying to protect herself and her children. I'm not saying that she does this in the right way, but it sounds like she doesn't know a better way. Tomi, you said that you were trying to improve her self-esteem and make her a better person (I can't remember your exact words), but she feels like she is under attack. Nothing she does is ever good enough. Telling her all the things she does wrong will not boost her self-esteem - it will shove it further down into the basement. You say that she comes from a dysfunctional family. That means that she has not had the chance to learn more effective ways to do things - to raise children, clean the house, relate to in-laws, etc. She may need help, but it has got to be offered in a non-threatening way or she will see it as criticism and reject it. Threatening anything punitive, such as reporting her to social services with the implication that she could lose her children, is not going to be constructive or help anyone. I know because I have been in her position. She feels as though she is trapped - caught between loving her husband and her children and knowing that she doesn't measure up to your standards. Maybe she got married too young and maybe she misses the freedom to direct her own life that she gave up to be a wife and mother. A frightened animal trapped in a corner has no choice but to try to fight its way out, or at least can't see any other options. And in that moment, the frightened animal doesn't know that the person who has it cornered may want to treat its wounds and set it free.

I'm all for family mediation, but it needs to be from a loving perspective. Any hint of punitiveness or revenge will ruin it. It would be best if you could work through your son, and have him offer the idea. It's not about laying it on the line and convincing her that she is wrong - it is about all of you learning to work together peacefully for the best interests of the children.

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh. It isn't meant to. I wish you all the best.

With Much Love,
Wendy

<font color=orange>"Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill "</font color=orange>

Neil sounds like a tremendous friend. How lucky you got to be part of his life. He sounds gorgeous too. I am happy that you have these memories of a dear person in your life. We should all hope to be so lucky as to have a friend like that in our lives. Keep talking, keep sharing. With deepest empathy

A very old, very wise soul once said "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

I have always had a sense through this that while you certainly very angry at your DIL, really what has been driving you was a desire to see your grandchildren and allow them to have the right to see you. Certainly there is a personal motive there but it is also deeply connected with the wellbeing of your grandchildren.

I have always accepted your venting as just that... venting, and I know that you have tried to work this out peaceably... talking with your son and trying to reason with her. I DO think this deserves to be fought out, especially for the sake of the children. Taking them in the car was downright cruel. In light of what Rapunzel has said I do agree that if there is anyway a beneficial solution can be worked out, maybe with a moderator, that would be in the best interest of the children.

I have considered that the quote that I began this message with might be appropriate to your DIL. Maybe working to allay her fears, as Rapunzel suggests, would end the chain of suffering she is causing.

I do however think you have every right to be very angry... not just for what she is doing for the children... but also for what she is doing to you. And also how it effects the relationship between you and your son, and what it must be doing to him.

I remember a thread here a while back about expressing violence on the board, and recognizing the difference between imaginary violence and real violence. And maybe more importantly, recognizing when imaginary violence is helpful and a form of venting, and when imaginary violence is destructive and keeping us focused on distressing thoughts rather than letting us get past them.

In this case it is definitely your DIL's ongoing actions that are dragging this out, not your hanging on to anger over a past event. My talk of pulling her through the keyhole was entirely meant not only to help you vent, but mostly to validate your anger against the situation which I think you very much needed. I know you know that I wasn't intending to encourage you to make the situation ugly, and I do trust that you understand that as well, which is why I felt comfortable posting that. Believe me I gave it a lot of thought before hitting the "continue" button.

I do believe very strongly that Anger leads to hate but not that we should not be angry... just that we should not allow our anger to grow to control our emotions and anger. I believe the solution to that is to express our anger, vent it, and release it... or when it needs to be addressed, to fight for a resolution but not to fight out of anger, but out of the desire for resolve. IMO everything you have ever posted about this situation has felt to me to have "resolution" as the driving force... not ever revenge or punishment.

I'm posting this for the sake of people who may be just looking in and might not understand. And also to emphasize the consideration of Rapunzel's post when considering the best solution to this for everyone involved.

{{{{{{SeptemberMorn}}}}}} {{{{{{{Rapunzel}}}}}}

There's an old story about a Japanese Samauri that spent a lifetime trying to locate the man who murdered the Samauri's master. This was a matter of honor and justice, this was the Samauri's role. After many many years the Samauri finally located the murderer and confronted him. He drew his sword to slay the man, which was the justice called for for his crime. Before he struck, the man spit in the Samauri's face. The Samauri then sheaved his sword and walked away. The reason was that if he had killed the man at that moment, he would have been acting out of anger and emotion, striking the man with fury over the indignity he caused. The code of the Samauri was very strong on that account, they understood the danger of following the path of anger and it was forbidden to the utmost degree.

------------------------------------
--http://www.idexter.com

I'm not sure what to write...I just wanted to tell you I care and am very sorry for your recent losses. I read about the loss of your friend and then when I read farther and got to the loss of your Mother, tears came to my eyes. You've gotten a great deal of support and it seems as though you're moving through your process. I don't thing there's anything I can add exceptmy love and support. I care about you, am glad you are here and are really glad you chose to reach out. Annie

It is kind of cliche to write about remembering how much life one person can squeeze into their lifetime... but from your description of Neil it sounds very much that he was very happy, under circumstances that could have been very limited. He was very comfortable in his life and was lucky to have a great partner and a long lasting relationship. Society makes that so difficult to do. Some people preach "tolerance" but "tolerance" implies judgement, it implies negative judgement and then surpressing that judgement rather than getting past it.

I am sure your acceptance of him, rather than tolerance, was a large part of him living a happy life.

It was also a great life lesson for your children... no matter how they grow up and what their beliefs--everyone is entitled to their beliefs--that others should not be judged, as judgement leads to hatred and hatred destroys civilized society. It also taught them early on not to fear what they don't understand, as fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, and hatred leads to... well see my other post. But I think that applies very strongly here.

You were obviously very lucky and appreciative to have such a good friend in your life, as he was to have you in his.

It may be cold comfort to try to appreciate that he chose a path of happiness and fulfillment for his life, but it does give you an opportunity to harbor many happy memories of him, and to keep him alive in your mind. No one can know 100% what happens to our souls after we die... but memories like these are the surest proof of at least one form afterlife exists.

------------------------------------
--http://www.idexter.com

Wendy, I found it impossible to get through your post but it's not necessarily your fault. Once before I was faced with this same problem of not being able to see two of my grandsons. They were being abused and neglected and I felt I had to do something about it. As a result, my daughter cut me out of her life and the boy's live. Why? Because she is a paranoid schitzophrenic!

I got involved with Grandparent's "Rights." "Rights" is in quotations because after much dealing with grandparents and trying to understand where parents were coming from in not allowing their children the benefit of good grandparents, I learned that in reality, grandparents don't have "rights"; we have priviledges.

Many of the words you use are the same that angry, militant parents used to bash good grandparents. As much as I could, I tried to get through their anger and find the real reason's for their militancy. Some were very eager to share their experiences in a calm, clear manner realizing that they and I had no quarrels and were trying to reach the same goals. We were all trying to find our way in what seemed an impossible situation. In honor of these great parents that were willing to put effort into getting me to understand their situation, I dropped my campaign for Grandparent's "Rights." So please, don't tell me about parent's rights, their ultimate authority, etc. I wasn't nor am I a perfect mother, but I can sure tell when something is seriously amiss.

When you speak in defense of my DIL, I feel as if you take for granted that I speak to her as I speak here about her. I assure you that is not the case.

As I've said before, I used to go over and clean their house, bathe the kids, do the maggot-y dishes and cook dinner. Something I didn't do for myself! I not one single time spoke to her in anger or frustration. I tried to get her to get involved with me and I would give her all the credit for how the house looked at the end of the day.

I tried to teach her how to do her hair, telling her that I supported myself and two kids as a beautician. As far as she was and is concerned, I didn't have a clue as to what I was talking about. She condemned me, no, she was certain that I bought the most expensive hair products and THEN condemned me, not only for spending money unwisely because she thinks that the cheapest products work as well as the more expensive ones. Then she labelled me an idiot. The way I tried to get her to see the difference was to offer to do her hair for a special occasion and I brought my own products and used them on her. Her hair shown for the first time since I had met her. For the first time, her own curls actually formed because I used a lighter hair moose than she does.

I don't know that I can ever convince you about how immature, inexperienced, ignorant and close-minded this girl is! And she is the way she is because her father made her that way! He's as ignorant and stupid on top of that, as she is! Come hell or high water, HE is right... even when you show him in black and white that he is NOT.

It was the same way with a bunch of baby goats that he bought at an auction. He knew that I had raised SHOW GOATS, but as far as he was concerned, I didn't know a thing. Both my son and I tried to tell him what he was doing wrong and he flat refused to believe us. As a consequence, he killed about 60 baby goats in about 3 months time. He'd get a batch, bring them home, overfeed them, gave them no shelter, they'd get the scours, die and off he'd go to buy some more. But he was doing it right! He knows everything there is to know about everything and his daughter is the same way.

Now, every time John wants to do something or tries to do something that she doesn't approve of, which is almost anything HE thinks of, she threatens to leave and take the kids where he'll never see them again. She won't listen to him, she won't try to understand him or his needs and wants, etc! What kind of a marriage is that??

I've said enough and I've worked myself up enough. I understand what you are saying but I don't agree with a lot of it, especially when it comes to maltreatment of my own blood, that being my son and my innocent grandchildren. I've tried kindness, I've tried friendship, I've gone out of my way to help her, I've even shown her that I love her. I do! She's endearing in many ways but most of all, she's my son's wife and I honor that. But I will NOT put up with her tormenting her children like she did the other night! My son tried to convince her to stay home but she would have none of it. Why?? Why did she have to come and sit outside in the truck, make the kids sit in their car seats for two hours and not let them even come in to go to the bathroom and get a drink? She had to take them to a gas station! Even my son questioned her intentions!

Ok... I've had enough of this anger and frustration! I need to get through the mourning of two loved ones and some anger issues I have with my ex that just cropped up tonight. I'm not going to play fast and loose with my grandchildren's lives and feelings. I have enough foresight and experience to not do that.




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Thanks, WiseWoman, but Neil wasn't gorgeous. In fact, I don't think he was very goodlooking at all. What I love was his inner beauty, his acceptance of the ugly me and the unconditional love he showed me.




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Dave, you and I are on the same page, Hun. Be assured of that. Something that has just dawned on me as I've re-read my own posts is that I've made it sound as if it's all about me and it's not. Like I said, I've been through this valley before. I'm a big girl and if I have to go through the valley again, I'll make it. It will hurt, but I'll make it.

The children are my biggest concern. When I cry, I cry for them. When I'm sad, I'm sad for them. They have no clue that they are being used as pawns in a control game. They don't understand why mommy won't let them come in and see me. They don't understand why it's been so long since they've come inside my house. They don't understand why "Bela" doesn't give them special treats like she always did. I could go out to the truck and force the issue, but if an argument starts or something uglier, they don't need to hear or see. Whatever I do or don't do, it's because I'm thinking of them first.

And as for the "violent" imaging and posting... I took it for what it was. Just venting, just a way to release pent up emotion. More than anything, I took your post as a validation of my feelings. It was never meant to form any kind of an evil plan to harm the mother of my grandkids. I knew that then and I know it now.

As for some of the restrictions she's put on me, like not being able to come to her home, etc., I wrote back to her and said I would honor her wishes but that I, in turn, would not close my door to her nor place any restrictions on her BECAUSE I was considering my son's feelings and respecting the fact that she is his wife by choice. It IS playing hell with my son! He feels torn in two different directions. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't! He knows that all he's going to get from me us hurt and dissapointment but he doesn't want to hurt me. What he gets from her is ultimatums and threats. I don't know that he realizes that yet.

After we talked night before last, I retracted my "no restrictions" on his wife. I told him that she could no longer accompany him if she was just going to sit in the truck with the kids. If she came, she had to let the kids out. It would be a foregone conclusion. I'd rather go without even a remote chance of seeing them than to know that they are outside, suffering, being tormented for no other reason than to hurt ME!

As for your quote: "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." I've lived it, Dave. I've acted out in anger because of fear and now I find myself hating someone all over again because of the hate that the anger engendered. No, it's not my DIL. I don't hate her. Stay tuned and you'll hear that story, too.





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Ok, now you've got me crying... Thanks for such a wonderful affirmation of what I want to be a part of me. When I die, will you see that they carve "She was an accepting person" on my gravestone?

So many times I've been labelled as "judgemental," a "black or white" person, "self-righteous." Maybe in some instances like in my religious beliefs and my own integrity, but it hurts so much when I'm believed to be that way about people.

You've given me a wonderful gift {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dave}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I'm going to print out your post and will read it when I start getting down on myself or someone tries to bring me down.




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Tomi,

I'm all for you getting to see those kids, and I've been happy for you when you have gotten to see them. Making them sit in the truck in front of your house was a rotten thing that their mother did. But I see her side of things. She is hurting too, and all she knows is that nothing she does is good enough. Yes, she makes mistakes. And it does seem to be sad but true that grandparents have privileges, not rights. I firmly believe that we are missing out on something when grandparents are not closely involved with their grandchildren's lives. But the fact is that she is the mother of those children, and she has the power of deciding who is allowed to see them. This situation has gotten to the point that it isn't going to be easy to resolve. The only way it will be worked out will be for both sides to back down and be more forgiving, loving, and tolerant of each other. Since she has the kids and you don't, you're likely to be the one most motivated to make it work. You are going to have to change the way you think about her. Even if you don't speak directly to her the same way you talk about her, she knows what you think of her.

My advice is probably worth about what you paid for it, and I know that you make your own decisions. It probably doesn't feel like it, but I am trying to help you. I think you are going to have to try to look at it from her point of view if you want to make any progress in being able to see those kids.

Love,
Wendy

<font color=orange>"Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill "</font color=orange>

Sept, that is so special, I am glad you shared that with us, and it is healthy for you to have done so.
My brother-in-law was gay, died of aids about 10 years ago, him and his partner were such great people, talented and downright good souls.
I hope homophobics will see that rather a person is gay or not, they are human beings, and their sexual preferance is their own business, it doesn't make them bad people.
Like the old saying goes, "there are good people and there are bad people", and I add no matter what colour, religion, sexual preferences.
I am happy that you will be able to hold those special moments in your heart and memories for ever.
The pain will recede in time, the fond times will last in your soul, I wish you comfort and peace.
Take care,
DE

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

Wow! What a great frienship ... It sure is a gift.

gab

Hun, I know what you're saying. I've heard it all before and I've lived through it all before. I learned some harsh lessons last time.

The big problem is that she won't back off! She flat refuses to listen to my explanations and my intentions. There's no moving her! She's taken her stance and don't confuse her with the facts. She's got all of us, John, Jerry and I by the short hairs where we're all afraid to make any kind of a move.

I know her actions are from fear and insecurity. I know she's angry and defensive. She's so focused on "protecting" herself and her kids that she won't listen to reason. But I also know that she won't break the cycle. She's mean and vindictive. I've seen her at work. I could litteraly "kiss her ***" and she may give in for a time or two, but she'd get it in her head that I had done something wrong and we'd be back to square one. Am I supposed to let her play her power games with me, my son, my husband but primarily with the kids until Hell freezes over? I don't think so!

Like I've said before, I don't plan to do anything right this minute. I've got some pretty tough days ahead of me and I plan to get through them with as much peace and outside distractions as I can. When my mind is clearer, then I'll see what my options are. But in the meantime, I will NOT allow her to pull that same crap again! Not in front of my house and not to my grandkids!




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Thanks, DE. I agree that people's sexual orientation is their own business and between them and their God.

Knowing Neil changed my mind about being a homophobe, which I was when I met him. What a great friendship and beautiful memories I would have missed had I gone with my thoughts instead of my heart. I would have also missed some "enlightening," wouldn't I? I'm a better person for having known Neil.




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>