[Ygrec23]

It hasn't been a good week, and right this second I'm coming from reading an article in today's London Telegraph which essentially says that if you watch a computer screen more than two hours a day you're dead.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...the-heart.html

It's 5:28 P.M. on MY Tuesday, January 11th, and, frankly, I'm about ready to give up. I found out today that I can't possibly pay my creditors what they need, that we'll probably have to go bankrupt, and certainly lose the house, and my wife of 42 years is wildly angry at me, and we only have fifty dollars to get to the end of the month, among other things. Not only is my business dead but everyone else in the same business is dead too, locally. I just don't think anything matters anymore. Except having enough money to buy a rope. I'll probably leave this life as utterly naked as I was when I entered it. My wife wouldn't even dream of asking me what's wrong or what's going on or what's happening. We don't have enough money. My fault. I spoke today with several of my confreres in the same industry and found out I'm not alone (i.e., it's not my fault). But I don't think we can hold out any longer. If it regarded myself alone, that simply wouldn't be a big deal. But selling it to my wife, selling ANYTHING to my wife, is ALWAYS a big deal. She comes from a culture that ARGUES about EVERYTHING at GREAT LENGTH, regardless of the potential value of the argument. I.e., not American. I'm ready to go. I really think I'm ready to go. Take care.

[yellowted]

hang in there, there is always a solution, sometimes you need to take astep back to see it, sometimes you need someone else to see it for you, but it is always there... sorry i don't have the answer but i know it is not on the end of a rope! the arguing will end eventually when your wife realises that you had no choice but to go bankrupt and that you did it for her to save getting further in debt, to give you both a fresh start debt free. i know it is devestatingly hard when one looses their home, but in reality it is only the bricks and mortar that are lost, the memories, love and family are still with you, a new building will come your way to shelter you both, it will be then up to you both to make it a home once again. tghink of it as a new chapter of your life, not the end (((((hugs))))))

[silver_queen]

i think yellowted is right. From what you say, it sounds you had no other option but to declare bankruptcy. This is not the end of the world, nor are you the only person to have to do it, as the numbers of people declaring bankruptcy are rising. It sounds like some of your stress is being caused by your wife blaming you rather than her trying to co-operate with you. This may be her way of coping with the event rather than her really believing you are to blame. Can you discuss this with anyone? I am sure there will be debt helplines who may be able to give advice.

[Nola22]

Ygrec, I'm intensely sorry to hear of your myriad difficulties. I wish there was something more than offering you support and sympathy that I could do; you have been so very helpful, kind, and empathetic to me in my times of crisis and woe, and I appreciate that very much, especially as I'm still in them. Your words and good deeds resonate with me and help keep me going, please believe me.

Would a little downtime from your wife help at all? By that I only mean a day or two so perspective may be restored on all fronts. I've often been the more hot-tempered one with my boyfriends, but the shoe was once on the other foot, which was jarring and educational for me. At times, it was like watching something I'd scripted from my past interactions, with some of my exact reactions and words, except it had the more tangible and vastly annoying properties of happening in real time and being directed right at me.

In those instances, I stepped back from him, whether it was going into another room or leaving the house entirely. It worked many times. I know you are dealing with a more firmly entrenched situation than what I have, and I can tell you feel you are out of options.

Please listen to what yellowted and silver_queen have said--you must stick this out. I've only known you a short time, yet I have a lot of respect for you and gratitude for the interactions I've had with you. I have no doubt you are an asset well beyond your good words and solid intent here at PC.

All the best to you, Ygrec.

[lynn P.]

(((Ygrec23))) - I'm sorry this is happening to you and your wife. We went through bankruptcy a year ago. We owed more on the house than it was worth, plus there was a lean on it by a lawyer on our side, so we manged to keep the house. Yes it's very hard, especially since men view themselves as solely responsible for making a living. It's common to feel overwhelmed and like giving up - my husband felt the same but I reeled him back to the reality, he has children who depend on him.

When it was all over, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be - in fact it was a relief to get rid of the debt. I know facing poverty can be tremendously hard but please can reach out for help. Live as simple as possible and I save a lot by shopping for groceries at the lower end stores. There are many ways to cut corners, not that you aren't already. You and your wife can get through this and I'll keep you in my prayers.

[Perna]

It's the prolonged sitting that is the problem and it has been shown that if you get up every so often (half hour or hour) for at least a minute, you can stop the process.

What amuses me is that they didn't give any ages or anything; remember, everyone has to die of something! They get people all worked up about "oh you can have a heart attack or stroke!" as if people can avoid eventually dying of something.

I work on the computer 6-8 hours a day but I enjoy that, it's what I "do" and yes, eventually something is going to kill me, probably my heart or a stroke (biggest problems for my ancestors). But I'm 60; I'm hardly going to die "young" am I? I'm retired, have done the work, raised the family, buried the parents, etc. It's all part of life and yes, I do get up every now and then to stretch, wander outside to check the weather (and get cold :-), etc.

[Ygrec23]

You are all such good, kind people! I'm really touched by all your posts. I'll try to respond to each of you separately, but I'll say right here that if the world contained only PC members I truly believe there would be no big problems. I am proud to be here and to be part of this community, sharing it with you, who are all so worthy and serious about pain. There's nothing at all in my "real life" that can beat PC or its members in being truly humane and caring. It's just great, and a privilege, to be here with you. Take care!

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by yellowted

hang in there, there is always a solution, sometimes you need to take astep back to see it, sometimes you need someone else to see it for you, but it is always there... sorry i don't have the answer but i know it is not on the end of a rope! the arguing will end eventually when your wife realises that you had no choice but to go bankrupt and that you did it for her to save getting further in debt, to give you both a fresh start debt free. i know it is devestatingly hard when one looses their home, but in reality it is only the bricks and mortar that are lost, the memories, love and family are still with you, a new building will come your way to shelter you both, it will be then up to you both to make it a home once again. tghink of it as a new chapter of your life, not the end (((((hugs))))))

Thanks, yellowted, of course you're right. I would guess that my wife yells at me because she's frightened, in addition to it being a cultural heritage. And sometimes she calms down and seriously considers the situation. It's just that we've been in this house for 25 years and really hoped to live here until we passed away. Not to mention the immense hassle of getting rid of 75% of the "stuff" we've accumulated here. American "stuff" is like cancer; it keeps on growing and growing and growing until only the most Herculean work can possibly make a dent in it. Personally, I look forward to "having" less stuff. The vast majority of it doesn't make the slightest difference to either of us, and can only make for a very, very interesting "moving" sale. So, though I've been thinking for three years about taking myself out, today is one of the days that I'm thinking about other things. Thanks. Take care!

[Perna]

I don't understand why you and your wife would be blaming only you; she's part of the "team"; how's her business/job doing? I know it's natural to be angry illogically like that (be angry at recently deceased loved ones for dying and leaving us) but I would look and see if the two of you can't figure out/cobble together a Plan B? Working together on the problem might bring you closer or at least bring some comfort to one another?

That's too bad you feel you have to declare bankruptcy and lose your house, etc. Losing a house, especially now, can take some time though so maybe something will shift in your fortunes or your wife's and change things in some positive way.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by silver_queen

i think yellowted is right. From what you say, it sounds you had no other option but to declare bankruptcy. This is not the end of the world, nor are you the only person to have to do it, as the numbers of people declaring bankruptcy are rising. It sounds like some of your stress is being caused by your wife blaming you rather than her trying to co-operate with you. This may be her way of coping with the event rather than her really believing you are to blame. Can you discuss this with anyone? I am sure there will be debt helplines who may be able to give advice.

Thank you, silver-queen. Yes, there are people to talk to. I've spoken with the debt counselors and tomorrow have an appointment to talk with a bankruptcy attorney. And yes, what you say is absolutely true: millions of Americans today are being forced to do bankruptcy because they're either out of work (like myself) or have had their income cut by very significant percentages.

We're really very lucky, in a sense. Lucky not to have fallen onto hard times until we qualified for social security. The people who are really, really suffering are those in their forties and fifties who are facing the same kind of situation without the safety net. So I really shouldn't in any way feel sorry for myself or ourselves.

My wife's problem is a real problem: it's TERRIBLE to be totally dependent on another person, in this case, me. For most of her life, my wife was a trained, professional graphic and package designer. She now not only has diabetes and a serious heart condition, but is on the (very much, alas) downward road of either Alzheimer's or plain old dementia. And though I know she really doesn't want to think about it, she knows it's there, and that fear (along with her great fear of death - which I do not share) added to the economic fear is just too much, so she lashes out at me. And though her lashing out makes me feel really, really lousy, I can't help but understand and empathize with her situation. Thank you for your post. Take care!

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by Nola22

Ygrec, I'm intensely sorry to hear of your myriad difficulties. I wish there was something more than offering you support and sympathy that I could do; you have been so very helpful, kind, and empathetic to me in my times of crisis and woe, and I appreciate that very much, especially as I'm still in them. Your words and good deeds resonate with me and help keep me going, please believe me.

Would a little downtime from your wife help at all? By that I only mean a day or two so perspective may be restored on all fronts. I've often been the more hot-tempered one with my boyfriends, but the shoe was once on the other foot, which was jarring and educational for me. At times, it was like watching something I'd scripted from my past interactions, with some of my exact reactions and words, except it had the more tangible and vastly annoying properties of happening in real time and being directed right at me.

In those instances, I stepped back from him, whether it was going into another room or leaving the house entirely. It worked many times. I know you are dealing with a more firmly entrenched situation than what I have, and I can tell you feel you are out of options.

Please listen to what yellowted and silver_queen have said--you must stick this out. I've only known you a short time, yet I have a lot of respect for you and gratitude for the interactions I've had with you. I have no doubt you are an asset well beyond your good words and solid intent here at PC.

All the best to you, Ygrec.

Nola! You write so WELL!! It's always a delight to read your posts on any subject at all! With regard to my wife, I now believe that things will work out in the end. She's not American and comes from a very hot-tempered culture (at least it was way back when). Which means that while she does blow up, she most of the time calms down.

As I've mentioned in one of my other replies, she has real life problems that are not just economic. She's diabetic (type II), has a serious heart condition and is slowly sliding into dementia (of which she's aware). So she can't possibly be a happy camper. I have to put up with her two or three times a week explosions, knowing that she'll calm down for a while afterwards. And I'm wondering (not knowing all that much about it) whether or not the dementia contributes to her anger per se. I've somewhere gotten the impression that Alzheimer's or dementia themselves give rise to tantrums. Obviously, I'll have to check this out at greater length.

She hasn't yet signed a HIPAA waiver so her neurologist can talk to me one on one. But he HAS prescribed both Aricept and Namenda for her, and that tells me an awful lot in and of itself. Like almost everybody, we'll make it. Which means that we'll struggle on to normal deaths of cancer and/or heart disease and not die of starvation or in a ditch or otherwise by exposure to the elements. Even though we can't buy the food we need I'm still overweight (by my own standards), and for me at least dying overweight is a sign of some kind of prosperity or at least membership in a first world society. Take care!

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by Perna

I don't understand why you and your wife would be blaming only you; she's part of the "team"; how's her business/job doing? I know it's natural to be angry illogically like that (be angry at recently deceased loved ones for dying and leaving us) but I would look and see if the two of you can't figure out/cobble together a Plan B? Working together on the problem might bring you closer or at least bring some comfort to one another?

That's too bad you feel you have to declare bankruptcy and lose your house, etc. Losing a house, especially now, can take some time though so maybe something will shift in your fortunes or your wife's and change things in some positive way.

Well, Perna, as usual, you've hit the nail on the head: "[H]ow's her business/job doing?" A very long time ago, when we got married, the joint plan was that each of us would spend three years in rotation supporting the other one while we did what we really wanted to do. This sounded at the time like a realistic deal since both of us had been continuously gainfully employed since our teenage years. Except it didn't work out that way. I had the first shift of gainful employment while she did her pure artwork (she had been a highly trained graphic and package designer). And when the time came to swap she wouldn't do it. And I ddn't call her on that. My mistake. I gave in, buckled, conceded. And she's been playing games in her "art studio" and watching daytime TV ever since. I really had to have loved her an awful lot to do what I did, or else have a character built of corn meal. Not something I really pride myself on. Of course, I was reasonably out of my mind at the time and it mustn't have been too hard to manipulate me. I really can't hold it against her now. We were both so crazy. What's the line? Babes lost in the woods? Neither of us could ever really handle reality. It's amazing to me now that we've survived as well as we have. Me hitting on one cylinder and her completely spaced. This is still a great and generous country, permitting people like us to get through their lives in at least a half-assed normal way. Thank you for your kind post. Take care!

[Nola22]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Nola! You write so WELL!! It's always a delight to read your posts on any subject at all! With regard to my wife, I now believe that things will work out in the end. She's not American and comes from a very hot-tempered culture (at least it was way back when). Which means that while she does blow up, she most of the time calms down.

As I've mentioned in one of my other replies, she has real life problems that are not just economic. She's diabetic (type II), has a serious heart condition and is slowly sliding into dementia (of which she's aware). So she can't possibly be a happy camper. I have to put up with her two or three times a week explosions, knowing that she'll calm down for a while afterwards. And I'm wondering (not knowing all that much about it) whether or not the dementia contributes to her anger per se. I've somewhere gotten the impression that Alzheimer's or dementia themselves give rise to tantrums. Obviously, I'll have to check this out at greater length.

She hasn't yet signed a HIPAA waiver so her neurologist can talk to me one on one. But he HAS prescribed both Aricept and Namenda for her, and that tells me an awful lot in and of itself. Like almost everybody, we'll make it. Which means that we'll struggle on to normal deaths of cancer and/or heart disease and not die of starvation or in a ditch or otherwise by exposure to the elements. Even though we can't buy the food we need I'm still overweight (by my own standards), and for me at least dying overweight is a sign of some kind of prosperity or at least membership in a first world society. Take care!

Ygrec, first allow me to thank you for your kind words--you are so thoughtful and gracious--thank you. I find your posts very eloquent and well-informed and enjoy reading them too, when I've had the good fortune to encounter them.

I'm awfully sorry your wife is facing such a frightening slew of medical conditions and diagnoses; my heart goes out to her. I can't imagine how arduous and scary that must be for her. I realize it is also straining and difficult for you too, from what you must endure as you described, to feeling helpless in the face of a loved one suffering.

From my experiences, I can confirm the anger and outbursts that often accompany Alzheimer's and/or dementia. I have served in a caregiver capacity for a close relative who suffered from Alzheimer's, and have regularly interacted with several family members with varying degrees of that terrible illness or some form of dementia. The relative for whom I cared was very smart and opinionated, loving, warm, and dedicated (to say the least), but just like many others, prone to get annoyed or angry from time to time. The rage I witnessed and had to tolerate was unprecedented and a complete departure from what I'd come to know and expect from her. Those tendencies lessened over time, and then sometimes happened with bouts of lucidity or boundaries she didn't understand, i.e. she could not go to the store or for a walk alone any longer.

Though I am no fan of pharmaceuticals, Aricept proved helpful for another relative, at least in the beginning stages of the disease.

If there's anything I can do, I am here for you, Ygrec. All the best to you and your wife, and please take good care as well.