Well for the past couple of months my father has gone into the hospital and rehab for onset of dementia like symptoms. It has been going on longer then this but the deterioration is happening rather quickly. Early this morning he was rushed to the hospital as his BP was extremely low and blood sugar 10x what its supposed to be. Infection is in him and they are trying to figure it out. In the last week he has lost 10 pounds and he is skinny to begin with. My feelings were of sadness and hurt earlier, now numb. I never learned what I feel and why. I do not handle these emotions well EVER. I could be upset and become angered, I could feel the pain inside but never sure what expressions are supposed to come out of this. I have always had some type of bond with my father that went without saying. When I was about 8 or 9 he was rushed to the hospital via ambulance and I locked myself in a closet with a survival knife held to my chest, telling my sister and our neighbor that I would not come out until I knew he was coming home. I reflect now of all the things we did in the past and at times I am overwhelmed. I have not let this get to me as I have in the last week or so. I have experienced death too many times and have been through a few life changing tragic experiences yet it seems it never get's easier. I wish I understood feelings, what to make of them and more importantly how to handle them. Life always has a very funny way of showing us all that not everyday we will wake up with people we woke with a day before. Not that there is ever a good time for someone close to go but I really feel that it's coming sooner then we all expected. With Christmas on Friday and a new year ahead why do these things find a time that becomes more than just another day? Years ago I visited my closest friend at the time on Thanksgiving in the hospital. He was fighting cancer for almost a year by this time and was 24 years old. He was fine up to this day so going there I had no idea the last time I would see him living was lying in bed completely out but with his eyes wide open with his pupils moving all over the place. Two days later he died. Two Decembers ago on the 8th my best friend was killed in a car accident leaving behind his wife and two kids. I mention this as holidays and death seem to go hand in hand. I also have been keeping my distance from seeing him for a while now as I was preparing myself for what's next. Is this right? Maybe not, but for me I feel it's what I had to do. I have not gone once to the hospital to see him since he's been in. Later today I will be going. I wish I had more when I needed it most........

[Skeezyks]

[here today]

Thinking of you, Underground. Hope things are going OK, as OK as they can be under the circumstances.

[MissFiona]

It reads that you do have more inside you, when it's most needed.

[here today]

Good to see your name in the forum again, Underground. How are you? How are things going?

Originally Posted by here today

Good to see your name in the forum again, Underground. How are you? How are things going?

Thank you Here today!! I'm good, just going through the motions of what things are. Thank you for asking.

[Open Eyes]

Hi Underground, noticed this thread about your father and how that is challenging you.

Firstly, I am sorry that when you were young and were frightened by your father being taken away in an ambulance, that no one helped you with those feelings of fear. Unfortunately little boys begin to think they are not supposed to have emotions, so when they do have them they get either afraid or angry. Little boys need to know that it's "normal" to be afraid.

What is scary about having someone we know pass away is yes, as you mentioned, hard to figure out how to deal with having someone there and getting used to that, then that person is gone and they are never coming back because death is "final". The other thing about it is that it reminds us of our own mortality too. Human beings have "always" had a hard time with that and had many ways of keeping lost ones relevent to their lives, even when that individual is no longer living there were ways developed to deal with that better.

My parents are 90 and 91 now and I am terrified of when either one of them passes.
It's definitely a very private loss and it's different for each person too. There is always a fundamental part of us that is connected to a parent, even if there isn't a closeness and I think that is connected to how we are designed to connect and imprint as human beings, however many mammels are designed that way, even reptiles and birds. With human beings, it's a lot longer then any other living thing.

I am very aware how I hold onto tragedy now. I don't let go of things that hurt, not because I don't want to but because I don't know how to. I guess it's part of my issue. Memories(all the bad ones) are burnt into myself that are constantly there. The struggle of self help, self pain and so on is something that is me. I can't let go, it's burns in me and never leaves. I heard this great quote on a tv show that is sure to wind up as a tattoo on me soon enough:
We never bury the dead, son. Not really. We take them with us. That's the price of living.

I guess I do it on an overboard level like everything else in my life. Even pain consumes me because I'm my mind I don't need help (though I do). I let myself think that I am better, that I can do things alone. I have created a cave for myself, in so many more ways than one. I am human too, I have deep dark pain and sadness that keeps me held back from real life. I have had so many bad things happen that make me question things many times over. Seems as if it's almost a joke or even a test, not really sure.... To live in a world that I have created because I need control at all times???? Not sure if this is the way to live. I know I am rambling but this is one of those times where I'm letting my mind type rather than my fingers. If you know what I mean!!! I am going to probably say my last goodbye to my father today. I am hurting....

[Atypical_Disaster]

Underground, I can relate to quite a bit of your last post though there are some key differences. In a way I do suffer, I just disconnect from it somehow most of the time. Thanks for writing all of that, as usual your posts make me think.

I think another hug would be pretty lame at this point but seriously I hope you feel better soon. I've never suffered this kind of loss so of course I have no idea what it's like.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank you!! It's been rough lately. Went last night and saw him, knowing the end in near is a challenging thing for my mind. I know we all go through this as I have in tragic ways already. No matter what or how many times experience does not help like it does with everything else!!

[here today]

Oh, wow. Sorry I had missed the updates to this thread. Both my parents have passed away and I know the hurt. . .

The quote you mentioned is right on. The price of living. Somehow it seems to me that you write about these things in ways that are so real. Wishing you comfort. . .

Sorry for your pain.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Underground

I am very aware how I hold onto tragedy now. I don't let go of things that hurt, not because I don't want to but because I don't know how to. I guess it's part of my issue. Memories(all the bad ones) are burnt into myself that are constantly there. The struggle of self help, self pain and so on is something that is me. I can't let go, it's burns in me and never leaves. I heard this great quote on a tv show that is sure to wind up as a tattoo on me soon enough:
We never bury the dead, son. Not really. We take them with us. That's the price of living.

I guess I do it on an overboard level like everything else in my life. Even pain consumes me because I'm my mind I don't need help (though I do). I let myself think that I am better, that I can do things alone. I have created a cave for myself, in so many more ways than one. I am human too, I have deep dark pain and sadness that keeps me held back from real life. I have had so many bad things happen that make me question things many times over. Seems as if it's almost a joke or even a test, not really sure.... To live in a world that I have created because I need control at all times???? Not sure if this is the way to live. I know I am rambling but this is one of those times where I'm letting my mind type rather than my fingers. If you know what I mean!!! I am going to probably say my last goodbye to my father today. I am hurting....

Underground, your difficulty with letting go is truely not uncommon. I don't think that your mind is saying you don't need help and yet you do, it's probably more that you don't believe anyone can help you. I think everyone has a cave they hide in tbh, a place no one else gets to know about.

Most people try to create their own world where they can have a sense of control as much as possible. As people get older they slowly learn to accept that nothing is ever perfect and life can go on even when something isn't perfect.

Today at about 12:15am my father passed. While my family and I are away which I was first contacted while here that they would be taking him off the machines the day after we got home. He obviously didn't make it till then. I am very sad and unable to really express myself as my three younger boys I am here with and am determined to give them a trip that is only of happiness as the complete opposite will happen for them when we get back home. Very difficult to do but as always I feel nothing that goes on is ever simple. Anyway wanted to share my discomforting news and to also thank the ones with words of encouragement. Over and out, be back soon...........

[here today]

Thanks for posting the update. Wish I had some better words or even a smiley but I don't.

Ceremonies are done, life is somewhat back to normal. Many drinks have been consumed and today I am here. I've come to realize all the pain I carry, the weight of the world measured in hurt. New goal is to rid myself of all the torture, to get what's inside out and allow a normal amount to stay but not the amount I hold onto up to now. I don't think therapy is my fix, it may be up to God to help me through. Will find out starting this Sunday. On the road to becoming more spiritual....... May God grant me peace for the time I have in body and may the devil ease up on me a bit. Thank you all for your hugs and words.

[here today]

Could you let us know how it goes? Might lead to some interesting discussions!

[Open Eyes]

" New goal is to rid myself of all the torture, to get what's inside out and allow a normal amount to stay but not the amount I hold onto up to now. " quote Underground

This is the very first step towards "healing" Underground. It's very possible you are much like that little boy who was so afraid when his father might not come home that he hid in his closet. It is time now to embrace that little boy and help him understand that he can feel afraid and still survive, it's ok to "feel" frightened, you are after all, just human.

To be able to sit with someone who can not only hear but truly understand your emotions or lack of and so on..... How nice this must be for the one's who do get this. I don't know if because of my traits I feel that this cannot happen for me, or that simply two therapists have failed and I just gave up. I really don't know the answer but what I feel is that finding the spiritual side to reason with may be my only outlet. I did go to church this past Sunday and will continue on this as I believe it is only God who can help me now. The professional route seems to be so misguiding and non achievable for me. My thoughts on "my" therapist's are that when they don't understand they begin to produce their need's by projecting what they know onto me. Some type of coping mechanism for themselves I suppose. To not feel so helpless in their own profession it may be that they have to discuss with me what they are comfortable in helping. What I mean by helping is creating an issue for me that they can recognize, even when it's not there. You see, I have the desire to be healed. How great it would be for therapy to be the fix for me. I just cannot see this as the way for myself. I don't mean to make it sound so simple as I do understand therapy works by what "WE" put in. To have someone (more than one) look at you in a way as if I am speaking a foreign language is always so noticeable. This baffles me especially when one is supposedly trained in doing so. Therapy is so broad and I love to look up their self proclaimed "experience with" when they list as many lines of expertise as a short story has. I suppose if I found that "therapist" who deal's with NPD as their only routine, maybe I would have a shot. Seem's to be unlikely though as those list's of self proclaimed knowledge only grow's by the visit. I do not want to feel the way I do any longer, to hold on and continually magnify all the bad that has happened. It's not like I store it away in that dark spot in my mind, I see it always. I allow the pain to internalize and play it over and over again. I really wish I could become a much happier person. one who can see a simple gesture and feel really good about it. To see someone else's emotions and care about them. To be present!!! I have a sickness that allows me to seem so strong and non-caring. The truth is I want to be happy!!! I want to care more and understand others for real. I dislike the fact that my understanding is based on a story rather than true emotion. I am a f&*#@ng robot and it sucks!!! My point of this long story is that I think my only way of self preservation is through God. As cliche this may be for a NPDer to think!!! I cannot believe that a person can help me. needs to be so much bigger than that, at least I feel. A-typical has caused me many times to go back and re-read what I write before I hit post. Today I am going back to my roots and posting without proofing. Make's it so much more real for me to do this way. So with that being said, expect mistakes and improper grammar. This is real and unedited.....

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by Underground

To be able to sit with someone who can not only hear but truly understand your emotions or lack of and so on..... How nice this must be for the one's who do get this. I don't know if because of my traits I feel that this cannot happen for me, or that simply two therapists have failed and I just gave up. I really don't know the answer but what I feel is that finding the spiritual side to reason with may be my only outlet. I did go to church this past Sunday and will continue on this as I believe it is only God who can help me now. The professional route seems to be so misguiding and non achievable for me. My thoughts on "my" therapist's are that when they don't understand they begin to produce their need's by projecting what they know onto me. Some type of coping mechanism for themselves I suppose. To not feel so helpless in their own profession it may be that they have to discuss with me what they are comfortable in helping. What I mean by helping is creating an issue for me that they can recognize, even when it's not there. You see, I have the desire to be healed. How great it would be for therapy to be the fix for me. I just cannot see this as the way for myself. I don't mean to make it sound so simple as I do understand therapy works by what "WE" put in. To have someone (more than one) look at you in a way as if I am speaking a foreign language is always so noticeable. This baffles me especially when one is supposedly trained in doing so. Therapy is so broad and I love to look up their self proclaimed "experience with" when they list as many lines of expertise as a short story has. I suppose if I found that "therapist" who deal's with NPD as their only routine, maybe I would have a shot. Seem's to be unlikely though as those list's of self proclaimed knowledge only grow's by the visit. I do not want to feel the way I do any longer, to hold on and continually magnify all the bad that has happened. It's not like I store it away in that dark spot in my mind, I see it always. I allow the pain to internalize and play it over and over again. I really wish I could become a much happier person. one who can see a simple gesture and feel really good about it. To see someone else's emotions and care about them. To be present!!! I have a sickness that allows me to seem so strong and non-caring. The truth is I want to be happy!!! I want to care more and understand others for real. I dislike the fact that my understanding is based on a story rather than true emotion. I am a f&*#@ng robot and it sucks!!! My point of this long story is that I think my only way of self preservation is through God. As cliche this may be for a NPDer to think!!! I cannot believe that a person can help me. needs to be so much bigger than that, at least I feel. A-typical has caused me many times to go back and re-read what I write before I hit post. Today I am going back to my roots and posting without proofing. Make's it so much more real for me to do this way. So with that being said, expect mistakes and improper grammar. This is real and unedited.....

This is such a good post, I'm glad you shared.

By the way, your mistakes and improper grammar aren't that bad.

Sorry for your anguish. For someone like me, who feels too much, it is incomprehensible. Good luck.

[Open Eyes]

" I do not want to feel the way I do any longer, to hold on and continually magnify all the bad that has happened. It's not like I store it away in that dark spot in my mind, I see it always. I allow the pain to internalize and play it over and over again." quote Underground

This is from constant internal fear and a need to protect your boundaries. I think it's a good idea to get involved with church. Also, the kind of therapist you would probably do better with is a trauma specialist. You should have someone you can sit with and feel safe to open up to rather then a general psychologist that doesn't really specialize in trauma work as I think you need to finally open up about these things that play over and over again in your mind. I think that deciding that only God can help you might be looking for some kind of perfection, and what you need is to learn how to let go of perfectionism. Human beings were designed to "feel emotions" and that includes men. If you pursue God, then do so understanding that you can be forgiven for not being perfect, if you pursue God, it must not be to strive for perfection, no man is truely perfect.

[Open Eyes]

I think that what is labeled NPD has to be better examined and I think this diagnoses is being taken out of the DSM if I remember correctly. I think it's more important to consider the kind of injuries an individual has suffered that may have disrupted that individual from developing a healthy sense of Narcissism.

There is a difference between an individual growing up and trained/taught/encouraged to be too narcissistic and an individual who experienced trauma and neglect where they really struggled with finding a way to "self protect" and have a personal sense of control.

Life has a way of humbling a person and often someone who has been very narcissistic can soften with age. The fact that you have recognized that you want to make a change and let go and figure out how to just be happy in your life is an important step and it can mean you have started to soften to a point where you may be more receptive to opening up instead of "defending". Softening doesn't have to mean "weaken" either, instead all it has to mean is allowing one self to open up to learning and IMHO, letting go of the ideal of "perfection" because as I have mentioned, there really is no such thing, at best it's just an illusion of. Oddly, life can go by while chasing an illusion and it's quite possible you are beginning to recognize that with this loss of your father.

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by Underground

To be able to sit with someone who can not only hear but truly understand your emotions or lack of and so on..... How nice this must be for the one's who do get this. I don't know if because of my traits I feel that this cannot happen for me, or that simply two therapists have failed and I just gave up. I really don't know the answer but what I feel is that finding the spiritual side to reason with may be my only outlet. I did go to church this past Sunday and will continue on this as I believe it is only God who can help me now. The professional route seems to be so misguiding and non achievable for me. My thoughts on "my" therapist's are that when they don't understand they begin to produce their need's by projecting what they know onto me. Some type of coping mechanism for themselves I suppose. To not feel so helpless in their own profession it may be that they have to discuss with me what they are comfortable in helping. What I mean by helping is creating an issue for me that they can recognize, even when it's not there. You see, I have the desire to be healed. How great it would be for therapy to be the fix for me. I just cannot see this as the way for myself. I don't mean to make it sound so simple as I do understand therapy works by what "WE" put in. To have someone (more than one) look at you in a way as if I am speaking a foreign language is always so noticeable. This baffles me especially when one is supposedly trained in doing so. Therapy is so broad and I love to look up their self proclaimed "experience with" when they list as many lines of expertise as a short story has. I suppose if I found that "therapist" who deal's with NPD as their only routine, maybe I would have a shot. Seem's to be unlikely though as those list's of self proclaimed knowledge only grow's by the visit. I do not want to feel the way I do any longer, to hold on and continually magnify all the bad that has happened. It's not like I store it away in that dark spot in my mind, I see it always. I allow the pain to internalize and play it over and over again. I really wish I could become a much happier person. one who can see a simple gesture and feel really good about it. To see someone else's emotions and care about them. To be present!!! I have a sickness that allows me to seem so strong and non-caring. The truth is I want to be happy!!! I want to care more and understand others for real. I dislike the fact that my understanding is based on a story rather than true emotion. I am a f&*#@ng robot and it sucks!!! My point of this long story is that I think my only way of self preservation is through God. As cliche this may be for a NPDer to think!!! I cannot believe that a person can help me. needs to be so much bigger than that, at least I feel. A-typical has caused me many times to go back and re-read what I write before I hit post. Today I am going back to my roots and posting without proofing. Make's it so much more real for me to do this way. So with that being said, expect mistakes and improper grammar. This is real and unedited.....

I was once an unofficial officer of the grammar police, but at some point I realized at a deeper level that the simple point of language is to communicate effectively which can be achieved in countless ways.. and I think you are one of the better utilizers of language I've ever come across even though your directness can fuzz some up at times. Personally, I appreciate it, and can well relate to your conclusions around what therapy can and cannot provide where some of our situations are concerned, mine included. My own composite array of complexities seems to be difficult or impossible for most to understand, which is something I've just come to accept as being inevitable and okay. I suppose it just makes the worthwhile friendships that much more sweet as they emerge.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but .. maybe part of what's unsettling to some outside of the NPD construct is the way in which many personal values can seem to be more chosen than imbued or inherited. With someone like you though, who continues to make the choice to keep evolving as a person I think there is so much greater potential than many may be able to realize.

I know how difficult it is to be unable to effectively communicate with someone we love while they are in some way medically unable; perhaps wherever your father may now be, he can know and appreciate your efforts and achievements with renewed clarity and solace.

I do realize that most assume that this issue is self generated. That the things that happen to others while being around one of us is seen as "our" choice. I'm glad you brought this point up as it is something that is so important for the nons to understand. Sure all people have some levels of good and bad but we are different in the sense of what we know and what we do. Unlike someone who is aware, our actions are from somewhere familiar and not planned(not all the time). Not staying that this is right, just showing that what we do can also be what we see unlike the norm which is to think and react or speak. Things come out easier in tense ways that are politically incorrect. Sense of right and wrongs aren't thought of in the same sense which is what also makes us seem so cold. I've also seen the side of the so called nons who are so quick to place blame, call names and attempt to hurt people like me because of who we are. What does this say about these types? To try and help and only be treated as a "criminal" based on other events that have nothing to do with me? I continue to try and gain something that seems so out of touch. To one day reflection my own-self and see me for who I am. To live in a way of acceptance of self and not one created for acceptance of self. This is spoken in a fashion that some will get and others will perceive as something else. Not trying to breakdown each part as I do appreciate the fact that there are some "available" here that fully understand my words without asking a million questions or even better getting it all wrong. Anyhow thank you guys for what you write. At times people here really help me more than I can actually express.