[Bathony]

Firstly, I'm saying this in general and I'm not relating to this site.
I don't deserve anything good and everyone has the right to hurt me. As weird as it seemed to be, this is true and I coming to terms with it. I still sometimes have those crazy moments of not accepting it but reactions of the people bring me back to earth. That's my whole life- I get attacked and no one helps me, all the time, always, which means I don't deserve any help.As simple as that. Lol, who would have thought. That's the magic explanation to all my frustration: why is this, why that? That's why. It's been like that when I was a child, a teen, now a young adult and it will never change. The people are different and I'm the only common denominator for all these situations, means I'm the guilty one and since it keeps happening and no one's on my side, means I deserve this. I actually feel better now, all that exhausting frustratio will stop because I do deserve bad things happening. Therpaists, siblings, false friends, bans, my ex- it all fits into the pattern.

[pegasus]

They tell you it's your fault, therefore it must be, therefore it shall be. No, it doesn't have to be that way.

I can see you are hurting.

I don't deserve anything good and everyone has the right to hurt me.

IMHO this is the key to all the rest of your thoughts stated in your posts. Until you change your thinking on this it won't matter what anyone else does, thinks, or says.

[IowaFarmGal]

Your signature says to me that you have had good and substantial reason to be angry in your life. I have a big bundle of anger of my own that gets me in trouble in life on a regular basis. I don't have a lot of tolerance for other peoples abuse even if they have a title or position of authority. This doesn't go over well when I seek to defend myself, but I don't believe that makes me to blame or you either.

only thing i care about bathony is hearing someone say they feel better. but if you want to travel the road as the rug you see yourself as PLEASE retain enough self awareness not to let yourself be led.

[Bathony]

I cannot draw any other conclusion from all those experiences and people's reactions. I don't know why I'm that bad to deserve punishment from all but there's must be one, since I get attacked and no one gives a crap about this. I experienced more unfair treatment than you can imagine. I asked many times why I deserve to be hurt and no one could give me an answer, so I cannot change this, only accept this.

[Mindinpieces]

This may sound strange and this is no way completely true of you or your situation. I wouldn’t know and am only going by what you have posted; even then this is more what I do to myself personally. However have you ever heard someone say this, as much as it hurts you to receive hurt, it’s almost real and acceptable for yourself. Therefore you allow yourself to be and stay around situations that reflect hurt upon you or may lead to your own hurt. Not intentionally but you are naturally draw to those people or situations because you believe they are the only circumstance acceptable for yourself. Therefore you end up in a cycle resulting in you strengthening beliefs about yourself with evidence you unintentionally sort of set up for yourself.

I can say you can change this. However I don’t know you or your situation, nothing is that easy to change for anyone. Also this would mean nothing being said to you at the moment. The reason this would mean nothing is anything that challenges the hurt you receive you would naturally be deflected and dismiss by yourself again unintentionally. Because it probably has been a long time since you felt any different. When that voice so to speak in your head keeps telling you hurt is all you deserve. There is at the moment no way for the conflicting emotions to be heard or accepted by yourself. Even if they are true, good, kind, helpful it’s hard to allow these to be heard by yourself in the way you once would have taken comments like these. If only words could sort out a lot of emotional and mental health problems then we all would be able to function as we would like. However some when you can allow good things either people have said or the way they reacted towards you to come in and show as evidence you are NOT deserving of hurt.

Of course the way to go about changing this is different from person to person but one day some when in your life you can make changes. Hopefully you will see that you are worthy of being cared and given the same emotional respect back from others. There are many therapies and I can’t say which one would be of help to you. But there is nothing to lose by having some therapy because either you will learn to change and see another side of yourself or it would have done nothing and therefor you were right to begin with. So if you think of it that way, what do you have to lose? Surely it would be better to give it another go if you already been down that route then to say with these emotions day after day. Hopefully you will see the way you see yourself at the moment is not true of you. You can allow yourself to be around people who treat you as they should with kindness and compassion. I am sorry if I have been insensitive and not helpful with my post. Please remember this is just my view from another person just trying to figure it out just as much themselves. Wish you all the best.

[darkpurplesecrets]

((((Bathony))))

I am really sorry you are going through so much but I am glad that you are reaching out and talking. I agree with what pegasus said:

They tell you it's your fault, therefore it must be, therefore it shall be. No, it doesn't have to be that way.

As a child I was told the same thing, and because I was only a child, I reacted humanly not understanding so I must have wanted it and deserved it. I am learning that it was a lie and they had to make me believe that to keep the guilt and responsibility off of them. If they could make me believe it was my fault and I wanted and liked it then I would tell no one, if I believed I was worthless, bad, and nothing then their secrets were safe. If I really loved them I would never tell and I would do what they said.

If I never told, I would not know to question or ask, I would always live in silence and alone, in their lies and guilt they placed on me. And believing I was unlovable and that God did not love bad girls that did not obey their parents and adults, and would go to the bad place made me want to be good and do what they said. Somehow being hurt through love and pain, was better than no love at all.

They used fear and terror to ingrain what they wanted me to believe. A child does not know that and we look to our parents and other adults to teach us what we don't know. They told me that they brought me into this world they could take me out, that they could make another one just like me. I only knew what they wanted me to know and I did not tell anyone. They said no one would believe me and that I would go to the bad place. I believed them, and it often even today screams loud in my head at times that I cannot get away from it or hear what the truth really is.

I have always felt I deserve nothing good in my life or that love was never for me. Maybe because love hurt and scared me so much I pulled away from any possibility it was possible or that in reality it was not supposed to be that way or even good. Being brainwashed to believe how bad I was still lingers in my head and causes me to often see nothing else, my brain was wired all wrong, I knew nothing else. Sure, I was always hurt so therefore I was the common denominator, or that is what I believed. I always caused them to have to hurt me because I somehow could not do it right, that is what they said. What else could I believe, I just always knew that. But it was another lie, the lies they wanted me to believe to justify what they needed me to believe to keep me silent.

Even in my adulthood I knew nothing else, things kept happening and still do. As a child I had to leave myself and others took over, but they were told the same things. Always put into lose/lose situations that I or those within could never win, even to the point to where we had to ask for it and thank them afterwards.We did not even know they were lose/lose situations, we could not see that or even had the knowledge to know it was lose/lose situations. It left no room to know or believe anything else. I even believed that I caused everyone that knew me to get sick or hurt. Somehow it was all my fault.

I did not know what the truth was because I did not even know what a lie was. Life was living within a lie, a lie they wanted me to believe---and I did, still to this day I struggle with that. Believing somehow it is my fault and I deserved/deserve it. Fear underlined everything within and even to the point that I feared myself and everyone else never knowing that life could and was not like that everywhere. I thought all little girls were special, and that they had others living inside them, and that love meant hurt because I was bad. I was often tricked so that no matter what I did it was wrong, because there was no way to do it right.

Always trying to know what they expected and be three steps ahead but there was no way to know for the expectations changed and often even if I did what was expected there was something wrong with it----I did not do it fast enough, or they knew my thoughts even if it was not what I was thinking somehow they made me believe it was. If I for example was folding clothes, I knew what they expected but just because it was expected that way before, they expected it folded another way this time, so I did it wrong. Even perfection was wrong, and I did not know that perfection was not possible, not in my world.

Truth is I don't deserve it, I never did. Neither do you. I am not that powerful that I can cause people to get sick even though I thought I did. I did not have the power to cause people to have problems but I thought that because someone knew me it had to be my fault. They had to make me believe that, it had to be all my fault to keep me silent----and it did until just five years ago, and even now often I struggle to say anything or talk about things.

I could never see the lose/lose situations they put me in for to me and others within that was just the way it was. I never knew that is what it even was until I finally could see it for just what it was. I could never be good enough no matter how hard I tried. I could never be loved, love did not exist if it was not something hurting or something that was expected, for in my world, if it hurt then it must be love.

I too have asked why? I perseverated over why, and still often do of the why's and how's. I often get pulled into a tornado that spins me around and around pulling everything and anything into it winds, tearing me apart and not able to stop it. But I am learning slowly and can at times feel that tornado coming on. I am beginning to stop always asking why for there are sometimes no answers or even reasons other than they were sick and they wanted me to only believe what would control me and make me see only what they wanted me to see and believe.

But I am also learning that the why's will be answered when the time is right, and when I am ready and able to see them. There are things that may never have an answer. Like you, and many others, the only why's we know are what they drilled and brainwashed us to believe. They knew that what they were doing was wrong or they would not have worked so hard making us think it was all our fault. They knew that if we believed we wanted it, then we would never tell anyone. They knew that if we believed no one would believe us, we would never say anything because we did not want to be thought of as crazy.

They wanted us to not get close to anyone, to believe that we were bad and worthless, that we caused it all----it keeps us from knowing the truth they worked so hard to make us believe, that kept the guilt and blame on us and not where it belonged----on them. If we never got close to anyone, it kept us separated and from seeing that life was not supposed to be that way. It kept us right where they wanted us and silent.

Bathany, I validate how you feel, you are not alone. But sometimes our feelings are based on what we were trained or brainwashed to believe. That is not your fault. If that is all you ever knew or saw, how can you believe or even know anything else? But there is the truth and there are others that do understand what you are saying. Even though everyone has gone through different things, somewhere we have asked the same questions and felt/feel like you do. This is not about me, but the only way I know to somehow connect to how you are feeling. To let you know that you are not alone, and that I hear what you are saying and I care.

I am glad that you reached out, that you shared how you feel, and I believe you that this is how you feel and how it is for you. I do not know if anything I said helps but I hope that somewhere it does. You do matter, what you feel matters, and you are worth being heard and validated. Please keep reaching out and know that we do care and are here for you. Sending you gentle hugs and loving thoughts if okay. Always.

dps

[Bathony]

Originally Posted by Mindinpieces

But there is nothing to lose by having some therapy

I know you have benevolent intent but I have my signature for a reason! I once written down all my therapy failures for The Samaritans but they forgot about me, surely more important people are more important. Anyway, the list:

1 psychologist whom I was seeing when I was still sexually abused and she didn't notice.
1 psychologist who wanted me to look into his eyes all the time, even when I was telling him horrible stuff, 'Hey, my eyes are here!'- you don't say?
1 psychologist who told me nobody wants to listen to me and everybody ignores me, I'm lazy and expect a miracle, I want to remain miserable.
1 psychiatrist who said she wouldn't prescirbe me a mild antidepressant because it would be a waste of a medication and that she woulnd't help me.
1 psychiatrist who called me a maniuplative egoist and it took him a 10 min or so to decide I'm not depresssed
1 psychologist who blamed me for everything and said that I can't do anything right.
1 psychologist who deceived me, trivialised my pain, made fun of me, took the side of the people who hurt me, was really harsh about my 'everyone's against me' thing- I have a long list of examples, why couldn't she just believe me? I can prove that everybody is against me but no, she didn't listened because I'm insane.
Of these brilliant people, 1 psychologist and 1 psychiatrist denied my right to have problems because 'I'm young and pretty'. And let's not forget the most incredible way they 'treatd' me in mental hospital. That's a laugh, 'treated'.

Yeah, yeah, now you say I must have misunderstood them and that eveybody wants to help me. I wish that was true.

[Leed]

Bathony it IS possible that what you are HEARING is not what they SAID. Please don't get me wrong, but many times when we are ill, we don't have the best perception. We don't "hear" things correctly. We are so "sick" that we hear things as we EXPECT to hear them -- not how they actually come out.

I find it hard to believe that all those trained professionals we ALL AGAINST you, honey. You are NOT a BAD PERSON!! I've read all your posts, and you're just not all those things that you said THEY said. So i have a feeling that what you heard was not what they said. When I was in the deepest darkest phase of my depression, I didn't hear things correctly either. I ALSO heard what I THOUGHT people would say -- since I felt useless, worthless, ugly, fat, (add what you want) I heard what I thought people were inferring. I couldn't have been more wrong. Trouble is, it started many fights and lots of trouble & heartache.

Think about it. All those professionals couldn't have suggested all those things, because for one thing, it would be VERY unprofessional -- and for another, they're there to HELP you, not browbeat you into submission.
It's not supposed to be a torture session.

I'm not inferring that you're crazy so don't go there --I'm just saying that when we're ill and in the worst of our illness -- we just don't really hear what is really said. I've been there and done that. God bless Bathony -- we're on your side. (((hugs)))) Lee

[IowaFarmGal]

I've had some pretty crappy experiences with "professionals" including a predator, so I'd just say you were very unlucky Bathony. I've had a couple good ones, but some major jerks too. Also there's the snowball effect from the way people chart to cover their @$$.

no-one who's way down can do it alone but neither can they think that someone else can help them all alone either.

i realized some time ago that there's no treatment that's going to solve my problems completely without some tradeoff. i could either sit back and keep wondering why it doesn't change or realize that i had a problem with the way i expected help to come.

I think you should get over to the introduction forum here and read some introductory posts by new members. And then take a minute to welcome them. get out of your own head for a bit and hear someone else. no i'm not damning you with selfishness so don't read that into it. Just listen to the rest of the scenes that exist. You have insight...use it for a few moments to respond to someone who might be having a tough time...doesn't have to be a revelation. Say hi and welcome...use your judgement which you likely have enough of...and say a kind thing or two.

No it's no exercise or anything corny. But give something...drag yourself out of you and give...just for the *uc* of it. You have experiences you've shared with us somewhat but you can use them to relate to someone else who might need the help as well.

If you can't right now that's ok...but think about doing that somewhere here at some point. It's not for you it's for someone else. After a while it might be a help to you too. bathony...don't get piszed...i don't like to hear people in a pit.

Originally Posted by Bathony

I cannot draw any other conclusion from all those experiences and people's reactions. I don't know why I'm that bad to deserve punishment from all but there's must be one, since I get attacked and no one gives a crap about this. I experienced more unfair treatment than you can imagine. I asked many times why I deserve to be hurt and no one could give me an answer, so I cannot change this, only accept this.

Yes, you can draw other conclusions. But you don't need to. You determine your self-esteem and your worth. Take that bullseye target off and put on some armor.
Don't let other people shape your image. That is something you control.
Look at your update "deserves all the pain and is stupid ." That is you saying that.
You don't have to accept it. Find and develop your good character traits. Love yourself. If the people you interact with have causeed a toxic environment...leave. Find a better place... better people.
Sorry if that seems blunt and unsupportive but you need to take control of your thoughts and self-image.

[Mindinpieces]

Originally Posted by Bathony

I know you have benevolent intent but I have my signature for a reason! I once written down all my therapy failures for The Samaritans but they forgot about me, surely more important people are more important. Anyway, the list:

1 psychologist whom I was seeing when I was still sexually abused and she didn't notice.
1 psychologist who wanted me to look into his eyes all the time, even when I was telling him horrible stuff, 'Hey, my eyes are here!'- you don't say?
1 psychologist who told me nobody wants to listen to me and everybody ignores me, I'm lazy and expect a miracle, I want to remain miserable.
1 psychiatrist who said she wouldn't prescirbe me a mild antidepressant because it would be a waste of a medication and that she woulnd't help me.
1 psychiatrist who called me a maniuplative egoist and it took him a 10 min or so to decide I'm not depresssed
1 psychologist who blamed me for everything and said that I can't do anything right.
1 psychologist who deceived me, trivialised my pain, made fun of me, took the side of the people who hurt me, was really harsh about my 'everyone's against me' thing- I have a long list of examples, why couldn't she just believe me? I can prove that everybody is against me but no, she didn't listened because I'm insane.
Of these brilliant people, 1 psychologist and 1 psychiatrist denied my right to have problems because 'I'm young and pretty'. And let's not forget the most incredible way they 'treatd' me in mental hospital. That's a laugh, 'treated'.

Yeah, yeah, now you say I must have misunderstood them and that eveybody wants to help me. I wish that was true.

I am sorry if I have triggered you by posting things I should have been more thoughtful about. I am sorry you have had bad experiences that have just added to your distress. I really I would not know either way to tell the truth if you misunderstood them or actually they were people who should not have been working in that profession.... Heck at this point you could just accuse me of agreeing with you to be kind and polite and make myself look kind and not argumentative... Even so you will or anyone else will not really know or can tell what my emotions and intent behind my comments are about or where there coming from so to speak.

This can be the same with our own minds, thoughts, feelings sometimes we react but do we know exactly why or the reason. Sometimes it's the questioning that adds to these strange feelings and emotions. You said so yourself you can accept how you feel about yourself? Well then what’s stopping you from being your own help and inner soother? Not everyone is suited to therapy like you listed. Although I am not to say that anyone should just walk out of therapy they are in, sometimes you have to finish something to be able to make your mind up. Even then you may still change your opinion at a later date and time in your life. Sometimes we need therapy to bounce back off so to speak. Personally certain types of therapy that makes me think and analyse patterns about the past just drives me mad and makes me feel ill because it just asking me to keep going over what I know and really all it shows me is evidence to strangely back up what I am trying to change and need help with in ultimately in a unhelpful way.

Sorry if I have trigger you but I will just say this and then leave it at that. Only not to cause you more hurt or upset and this will not be because your were wrong but actually because I am being the wrong one here because I should have worded or thought through things more in what I have posted to you.

You may want to look into mindfulness, I can't quite get it personally. Like most things it takes ages apparently to get or notice an effect on yourself. It’s basically being aware of thoughts and feelings that come into your body and mind, just notice them but the idea is not to be judgement about what you think and feel.

EG someone walking down the street, they then see group of people chatting and laughing, the feeling this person then gets is heart beating fast and they start to feel tingling in their body,

Judgmental way is great I am hopeless because I react like this, those people will hate me and make fun of because of how hopeless I am, this then makes that feeling and thoughts stronger and more real, Resulting in that person believing those comments and actually making that personal react in a worse way.

The more mindful way is for that person to say something like ok my hearts beating and I'm getting this feeling again, it's because there’s a group of people over there and I am getting anxious. I am aware of this and notice this but now I need to focus back on what I was doing, where I was going or other things happening around me sounds, smells, things you see to distract your mind from following a cycle of thinking patterns. This way you don't then add onto that hurtful feeling by actually just being another voice of the hurtful thoughts and feelings.

Again please remember I am just another person who doesn’t really have a clue themselves. I hope you can be your own best friend and work on changing yourself how you would like and when you want to or are personally ready to. So that you can be at ease and more accepting of yourself in the way you do deserve. Which is with kindness and compassions as well as understanding of yourself but not being the judge that punishes themselves. Wish you all the best

[Bathony]

Originally Posted by Leed

Bathony it IS possible that what you are HEARING is not what they SAID. Please don't get me wrong, but many times when we are ill, we don't have the best perception. We don't "hear" things correctly. We are so "sick" that we hear things as we EXPECT to hear them -- not how they actually come out.

I find it hard to believe that all those trained professionals we ALL AGAINST you, honey. You are NOT a BAD PERSON!! I've read all your posts, and you're just not all those things that you said THEY said. So i have a feeling that what you heard was not what they said. When I was in the deepest darkest phase of my depression, I didn't hear things correctly either. I ALSO heard what I THOUGHT people would say -- since I felt useless, worthless, ugly, fat, (add what you want) I heard what I thought people were inferring. I couldn't have been more wrong. Trouble is, it started many fights and lots of trouble & heartache.

Think about it. All those professionals couldn't have suggested all those things, because for one thing, it would be VERY unprofessional -- and for another, they're there to HELP you, not browbeat you into submission.
It's not supposed to be a torture session.

I'm not inferring that you're crazy so don't go there --I'm just saying that when we're ill and in the worst of our illness -- we just don't really hear what is really said. I've been there and done that. God bless Bathony -- we're on your side. (((hugs)))) Lee

As I suspected, you thought I lied or exaggerated. They always think that. I don't lie, you know? I could threw a couple of quotations of those therapists but they would be in Polish and apparently my being Polish is not acceptable here. No one believes me and that's just fine, particularly fine when therapists themselves ask me about my experiences and then tell me I'm lying because no way a therapist could say this or that. Oh really? Should I have witnesses to be believed? Again, I'm the common denominator, so people ask wtf is wrong with me, rather than: wtf is with the mental health system. It's good you all have come across only good therapists, I'm happy for you, but I haven't met anyone who would actually listen to me. 60% of the Psychology students chose the studies to solve THEIR problems, instead of helping others they want to help themselves- no wonder they later make me feel I'm interrupting their coffee break. Young and pretty, what problems, what suicide, go live a happy life, I'm too busy having my coffee! Gosh, what have I expected, it's always the same, ALWAYS. Let's all just agree I'm lying to get attention. Like a gilr asked me if there is anyone who has NOT sexually abused me because my story doesn't sound plausible enough. I lie, I lie! Damn.

Hello Poland... like the opening line says, just saying hi. No big deal but y'all were on my mind after I did some writing earlier. Old saying...much maligned for being overused trite and simplistic but says it clear with guaranteed sincerity...take care.

I'm just another person wandering this earth...if I choose to be honest and concerned then I am. And I am pretty much of the time...life can be hell I know it. I can't help you. I wish I could. But in many ways you have my support and my best wishes as long as my memory lasts. That I can't help but give. Look after yourself as best you can Bathony. That's your side of it. As best you can until things for you hopefully begin to change. Goodnight and good morning I guess. Poland right? Dawn by now likely...anyway bye