Dateline Predator Series

............And another thing... why should we care about the ifs and what ifs... give me one good reason why we should care about sex offenders, when they in fact do not care one bit about their victims...........And don't give me the oooo they are a human being ...... They didn't treat their victims as human beings.... ......

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
radio_flyer said:
....First folks are trying to compare white collar crimes with child molesters.. Then using mental illness as an excuse for doing crimes against other people.. now this.. a sleep walking sex offender.. Makes you think that an erection is a "mindless" thing... that men don't need a brain for one...
. . . .
So please take all of the ifs and what ifs to another thread..

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

radio_flyer . . . excellent posting!!!

Sunday morning I listened to a radio talk show called God Talk. One of the topics was about a Priest who stepped down now because he molested a 14 year old girl 23 years ago. The discussion was whether he should have stepped down noe becasue it has become an issue now even thoughhe has been a saint for the past X years, haveing only been bad this "once".

Well, as I listened to the chat, it was disclosed that this guy had kept it up for 2 f'n years. It wasn't a one time thing like the host said. I sent an email to point this "little" fact out, and to ask what had happened to the girl.

The host had not approached the topic from the child's perspective at all. Blew me away. A woman called just after I sent the email and asked about the kid. Host had no idea at all, hadn't even thought of the question.

He musta been brought up short because for what was left of the show he stopped saying the guy had only offended once, and there was less vigor in his defense of this "tarnished" preist.

How this "liberal commentator" could compress two years of abuse into "one incident" sorta reveals how much denial there is out there about the effects of sexual assaults.

I've busted my brain for an analogy to get through to men about how "shook up" victims are for how long (ie: LIFE) by
having been assaulted. I think I've got it:

WAR. Listneing to vets speak about their war experiences. The incidents are as fresh as yesterday in their memories. Their emotions are right there leaking out there eyes. There bodies and minds remember it all. They never get over it and aren't expected to. Ya know.?. Even if they "get on with their lives"....... the war damage is always there, right under the surface.

We should have a Veterans of Sexual Assaults Day....... women and kids live in a war zone every day.....

thanks to one and who are would respectfully request that another thread be started for the "what ifs"......

this is the first time, ever, that this subject has been so openly discussed and so much has been learned..and not only about this subject, but about one another. AND we're doing it in GENERAL. more people are reading it and are learning more about sexual abuse victims and the way our lives change.

i will admit that it is starting to creep me out. i was just getting irrirtated .about .. what i shall call, "the violator defense program". i'd like to be able to come here and discuss as thoughts hit me. i am no interested in a round table discussion about the predators. as i haven't been since that subject arose.

as we say in Oklahoma and Texas, once again, "that dog won't hunt" and "i don't have a dog in that hunt".........my dog is for the survivors/victims.......and she's here for the long hunt......

it is extremely interesting that hillbunnyb heard a program, yesterday, and a priest had continued the abuse for two years......and nothing had been expressed concerning the victim.........shame, shame, shame on the priest first and the radio talk show host second.........thanks HBB.

p.s. maven, every little bit of information that is exchanged here validates something somewhere in every survivor. it might just be one sentence or it might be an entire post.

we're allowing ourselves to open up and be vulnerable and exchange our deepest thoughts and feelings. i hope that this information explains better to you, why we don't want the "what if" program that you're selling. thanks, pat

The title of this thread is about the Dateline's "To Catch a Predator" series . . . and . . . desirae's question was this . . . </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
desirae said:
What do you all think? Please say whatever it is you feel about this series.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

i realize what the title of the thread was, jennie.....just expressing my feelings and frustrations.....p

fayerody, i know . . . you've expressed yourself very well. I agree with you that Psych Central should not be an advocate (or devil's advocate) or support group for the criminals (child sex offenders, as illustrated on the Dateline's Predator series).

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rapists and molesters, registered or not, probably do live close to you, too.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Yes, they do! As a matter of fact THREE of them in one small mobile home park. I know exactly where the one surviving one lives! Thank God two of them have since gone on to meet their Maker! Wonder what He had to say to them?

One that just died would ride his golf cart to the gate and watch all the kids going home from school!! Don't think I didn't call the cops on him!! They were watching him and so was I!

Florida has public record listings... maps, addresses, pictures and basic crime listing ... NONE in my own community...plenty outside of it.

I'm going to respond to the things said to me, even if off-topic, so I get my answers out. After that, if I still want to say anything off-topic, I will start another thread.

I'm going to start by stating some facts:

1) I think all molesters and rapists should be put away for good the first time they are caught.
2) I don't think victims ever get completely over it.
3) I don't think pedophiles and predators can be cured.
4) I think Dateline is doing a great thing.
5) I'm open to being proven wrong.

Now, responses:

fayerody said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
i would also like to comment upon your statement about "airlines always seating small children by women" instead of men.....has it occurred to you that it could be because women are considered to naturally be more nurturing than men? or that it could be that there is some notion, by the airlines, that more men, than women, travel for business and thus they would be less inclined to pay attention to a small child seated beside them? that dog won't hunt.......in my book.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I wasn't stating an opinion. I was stating what I've read and others have also read and stated to me. Here are some related links (you can find more if you Google for them):

PHXnews.com
Political Animal discussion
Reverse Discrimination
Airlines Say "No" to Men Sitting Next to Unaccompanied Minors
Hey, Buddy, Move It

radio_flyer said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
And I come back and folks are so they say "not defending" predators, but they really are with all the ifs and what nots.... Starting to make my skin crawl

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Well, I guess your skin's going to keep crawling, because asking questions is not defending predators. My belief that they should be forever punished (including torture), is based on their destruction of another's life. I'm not going to explain it again, because you're not understanding what I'm saying.

And, let me assure you, I'm not afraid to say what I mean. If I felt predators and pedophiles deserved little or no punishment, or even a long, but temporary, punishment, I'd say so. I'm not afraid of your opinions if I thought that. If I felt that way, I'd say so. I don't, so if you still think I do, re-read the numbered statements at the beginning of this post, and if you still don't believe me, then c'est la vie.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Then using mental illness as an excuse for doing crimes against other people..

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I never said mental illness is an excuse to commit crimes. If a person is dangerous, they need to be put either in jail or in a mental institution.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
now this.. a sleep walking sex offender.. Makes you think that an erection is a "mindless" thing... that men don't need a brain for one...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Sleep-sexing, not sleepwalking and having sex. This is a real occurrence. Google it. You'll find a lot of information. I had a boyfriend who did this. And the real danger is when they sleep with children in the room. I'm not saying there aren't sleepwalking sex offenders, but what I know of sleepsexing, it's done without the sleeper getting up and leaving his bed.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Bottom line is...... when ever a person violates another person, being molesting, rape, murder, whatever, they deserve plenty of time in jail....period.......

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

And when did I say otherwise?

SeptemberMorn said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I will say it for the last time! You have NOT been sexually violated so you DON'T KNOW what it's like! Stop trying to convince us that you do!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I DID NOT say I know what it's like! I'm NOT trying to convince you otherwise! So, stop accusing me of such!

fayerody said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
i will admit that it is starting to creep me out. i was just getting irrirtated .about .. what i shall call, "the violator defense program".

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm not defending anyone. However, if a person has been accused but hasn't proven to be a sex offender, and I have no reason to believe s/he is, then I will wait till I see/hear evidence before judging him/her to be. I believe everyone deserves a fair trial. Once a person is proven to be a rapist or molester, then I'll be the first in line to shave his skin off.
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
p.s. maven, every little bit of information that is exchanged here validates something somewhere in every survivor. it might just be one sentence or it might be an entire post.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Yes, blind hatred. You want so badly to believe I'm defending pedophiles and predators, so you can hate me, too, and express the anger and hatred you feel. You feel your hate is validated because you hate anyone with an open mind when it comes to her own beliefs, being willing to consider other things, being willing to find out she's wrong. You want to see me either black or white, defending the predators or defending the victims. You refuse to see that I do defend the victims, but I'm also for learning more about predators and pedophiles, in the hopes of stopping them in the future.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
i hope that this information explains better to you, why we don't want the "what if" program that you're selling.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

You make it sound like I'm a snake-oil salesman. I am not trying to sell you anything. I'm not even asking you to consider my opinion. I'm asking for my own, personal beliefs. I ask, "What if?" of myself all the time, so I am firm in my beliefs and I'm less-likely to be surprised by information I didn't see coming. I like to be prepared. I'm a writer. It's in my nature to ask, "What if?"

jennie said:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
fayerody, i know . . . you've expressed yourself very well. I agree with you that Psych Central should not be an advocate (or devil's advocate) or support group for the criminals (child sex offenders, as illustrated on the Dateline's Predator series).

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

So, people who commit crimes are not welcome here? I know at least one member who's stated that she's spent time in jail. Do you mean any criminals, or just violent criminals? Which would mean people with anger issues aren't welcome here if they've been violent.

Feel free to reply in a new thread, or privately, if you don't want to continue this in this thread. I was under the impression all people who wanted help were welcome here. Thank you for clearing that up.

As for the topic at hand, I did see the update show a couple of nights ago. I don't have much to say about it at this time, but if anyone has anything to say about it, I'm happy to comment if I have anything to say afterwards.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Maven said:
So, people who commit crimes are not welcome here? I know at least one member who's stated that she's spent time in jail. Do you mean any criminals, or just violent criminals? Which would mean people with anger issues aren't welcome here if they've been violent.

Feel free to reply in a new thread, or privately, if you don't want to continue this in this thread. I was under the impression all people who wanted help were welcome here. Thank you for clearing that up.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

If you want to reread my quote below, then you'll see I defined which criminals should not receive support here . . . hint: read what's inside the parenthesis following the word "criminals."

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
jennie said:
fayerody, i know . . . you've expressed yourself very well. I agree with you that Psych Central should not be an advocate (or devil's advocate) or support group for the criminals (child sex offenders, as illustrated on the Dateline's Predator series).

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Hey, I think you expressed yourself well, too. I understood you weren't supporting those Dateline perverts. "What ifs" are easy to take out of context, which was happening too much in this thread. (((((((huggs)))))

Maven, your questions and your "what ifs" is what's so INvalidating to those of us who HAVE been violated!

If you honestly believe what you say you do, WHY ask questions that bring serious doubt to your statements?

Like I said before, you go off on tangents and argue the point that really have no room in a discussion like this. Those of us who HAVE been violated in the worst ways can clearly see that you haven't "walked a mile in our mocassins" and it infuriates us for you to have even a thought of protecting these criminals.

Why argue the point?? It's terribly INVALIDATING for those of us who carry scars, pain, rage, memories we'd rather erase from our lives!

This thread, in many ways has been a healing thread for many of us because we've forged a head despite your "what ifs"!! You wouldn't have these "what ifs" if YOU had been violated. And as for your "sexual harrassment," these days even innocent flirting can be misconstrued as "sexual harrassment." Little kids in school that hug each other are accused of it, for pitty's sake!

You can sigh a sigh of relief when you think back on your experience. WE CAN'T! It DID happen to us!

I wrote this piece a while ago when a registered sex offender moved in three houses down from me. I call it Mixed Emotions. It may or may not belong here but this sums up the many feelings it brought up in me.

MIXED EMOTIONS

LITTLE ONE

I hold the envelope real tight so I don't drop it in the puddles on the way to the mailbox. It is very important business, Flowerchild says but she lets me carry it anyway. All three of us are putting the letter out today because there's a scary new neighbor. "We must be careful," Grown Up said. "We must stick close together." Silly Grown Up. It's not like we're ever alone. We all share the same head, I think.

I have to reach up a little to touch Gail's nose. I pull it hard and her mouth opens right up. I stand the very important business up on the side of her mouth so she can still breathe. Gail-box is very funny. She has no teeth so she can't bite the mailman. He pulls her nose everyday, but he still doesn't know she has a name.

Flowerchild calls me stupid. "Mailboxes don't have names, or feelings, or teeth," she says.

But she's wrong. Bugs have feelings. Flowers have feelings. Bad men have them too.
I wave to the bad man at the end of the street as he slips a letter into his mailbox. He smiles and waves back.

FLOWERCHILD

"Great! Now you've done it," I sputter at Little One. I push her arm down fast. Stupid kid. She doesn't even care that the neighbor's a registered sex offender. Doesn't even care that she's the juicy bait. That she's what he's drooling over.

He won't touch me, no freakin' way. I'll kick him and stab him and stick my cigarette in his eyeball. It's not me anyway, it's the young one he wants. That's what they all want. Long, straight hair, flat-chested, chubby little legs. What do they see in that? I have everything to offer and I do it real good. Upside down, inside out, on my knees. I know how it's done. Men like him taught me good.

But I decide who does the touching now and it won't be him. Look at him, a fat old bald man. What would Little One see in him anyway? Fine if she wants to sit on his filthy lap, let her. I'm fifteen, I'll find plenty of laps of my own.

I flick my cigarette towards him and spit.

GROWN UP

"Hi," I say a little louder than I'd like. With a nervous wave with a half-frozen polite smile, the new neighbor waves back. I get busy putting the envelope in the mailbox, taking way more time than I should so I don't have to look back up and make the dreaded eye contact. I turn and walk away as my stomach flips and the mixed emotions breathe heavy and gurgle.

I feel the watchful eyes of the neighbors peering from their windows although I see no one. Doors are locked. Curtains are drawn. The air has changed.

Mothers march their children to the school bus in single file holding better rank than a military squad. They gather on the corner to whisper their concerns, their disgust. Keen eyes scan the streets for the enemy; thoughts focused on protecting their young.

We don't know the circumstances, I tell myself. Don't want to jump to conclusions, I tell myself. Who am I to judge, I ask myself.

I go inside. My doors are locked.

My curtains are drawn.

My stomach flips.

Ok.. I think I better understand where you are coming from..This thread goes to show the different thinking of those who have been molested and those who have not been molested...

I can see your point on the child on the plane and I understand your boyfriend's feelings... Being perceived he is something that he isn't, just because he is a male....I can also understand taking all precautions to keep children safe......I guess it can be "extreme" on both sides.. with out even considering a middle ground... middle ground is "touchy" when it comes to a child' s safety.......

Yes, there is nothing wrong with asking questions... The difference from one being molested to one that hasn't, can determine the quality of answers. Yes my skin scrawls on these topics...But if I am to understand where your coming from, you also need to "understand" where I'm coming from... I doubt many victims have sat back and even thought once about the what ifs about predators... They tend to have a mind set on predators and may even "run" from such a topic.....I think it is very BRAVE of all the survivors that contributed to this thread....... Their thinking and feelings are validated.... When someone questions the reasons a predator does what he does, and tosses in all the ifs and what nots, it only invalidates the victims experiences...

i like your posts . . . (((((((radio_flyer)))))))

ty (((((((((( jennie )))))))))

the lil smilie guy reading is cute...

Wow, that's quite powerful. Beautiful writing.

gg

You do have a way with words.... Awesome... just awesome.. you are a gifted writer........

Thank you both.

(((petunia))) well said by all!

Petunia, I am touched deeply.

Everyone else, I have stayed out of here for my own sake but as I read today I would like to ask you folks to google safer society press and tell me what you think or learn or if it's even something you are able to do. It hurts me to see bad things said about people here, or anywhere. I want to say that Yes indeed I have a lot of hatred toward most of my abusers. I also have a belief system that knows that each of us are born with a kernel of light, god, Buddha, Jehovah, whatever. And very few of us ever lose it completely.

my 2 cents, I'am proud to be a survivor and even prouder to be amongst the other survivors here in this thread

Petunia, I am touched deeply.

Wisewoman,

Isn't it true, though? That people have so many mixed emotions about these subjects that it can be very confusing. I just tried to put mine on paper, tried to sort them out. Just sharing is all.

{{{{{{{{{Petunia}}}}}}}}}}}

You, indeed, are a wonderful writer! Great job of putting your feelings down! This isn't the first time you've touched my heart.