Dateline Predator Series

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Maven said:
Again, I'm not sympathizing with a pedophile, and I haven't heard of any victims who truly get over it, but if I'm understanding some of you correctly, you're saying you did overcome it.

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I haven't overcome issues from the incest or rapes I endured. I have related panic attacks, nightmares, phobias, and dissociations.

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Maven said:
If a victim can overcome the abuse, and if an offender doesn't re-offend (as high as the recidivism rate is, there is a possibility of someone not offending again), why should his whole life be spent in punishment?

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Maven . . . you have a valid question . . . but I believe they should be locked up their whole lives . . . because:

Because . . . we cannot look into the hearts and minds of such criminals. They all say they are sorry and won't do it again. Because . . . the only effective tool we have is prison. Drug therapies and behavior modification are no reliable treatments for them. Because . . . we must protect children.

I know my opinion is biased. Yes, lock up all child sex offenders indefinitely. However, I would support release from prison if they willingly had a lobotomy.

My pedophile-rapist promised never to do "it" again when I was about 13 years old. However, all during my teenage years he made sexually provocative jokes to me. He'd beg me to dress up sexy and go out with him on dates. Every hug, he'd feel up my body. When I was about 24 years old (still living at home), I caught him peeping through a hole in the door at my naked body while in the bathroom. He found Jesus and "repented" and asked my forgiveness. He loved going to church to see this beautiful 16 years old girl. He'd perk up every time and get excited talking to her, just as he'd do with me. I realized then the possibility of him hurting other children, yet I had no tangible evidence. He now has a pastor's license and regularly conducts sermons for his church . . . little kids look up to him. I wanted to forgive him and believe he'd not hurt a kid. Until . . . I saw him 2 years ago . . . he gave a gift and hug to this little girl maybe 3 years old. He was perky and focused all his energy on what that little girl was doing, yet he was supposed to be socializing with his adult friends. Still, I have no proof he hurt that little girl or any other child . . . but I have my instincts and I would bet everything he has erections every time he is around that child.

The question is . . . should we allow people like my father out in society . . . free and able to hurt a child??? He and other perverts promise they won't ever do it again.

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"If a victim can achieve a normal life, then should the pedophile who never commits another act be punished forever?"

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Surprise! Surprise! Believe it or not, there ARE one time offenders out there that no doubt have acheived a "normal" life. But have you stopped to think that offenders, at one time or another where victims, too??

Abused children will sometimes grow up to be abusive adults. I said SOMETIMES. Some don't.

And let's face it, one time offenders rarely get caught.

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because I suspect his victim(s) never got over it.

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*I* got over multiple molestations and rape.

I can relate to the phobias and panic attacks... Please don't be offended... but i hate the word dissociate...have no rhyme or reason why, i just do....

maybe predators should be required to pay for their victims therapy.. that may keep their hands off children... they would be too busy working to pay therapy bills and they would not have time or energy to do much else...and would be a constant reminder of what they did...........just a thought...

*****My belief that pedophiles deserve permanent jail time is based on his (or her) ruining his victim's life, so that the victim will never again be truly normal****

Maven, do you personally know anyone who has been molested, raped and abused as a child? no one that i know, or have had in group therapy, entirely gets over and becomes "truly normal".

yes, we move on. yes, we say that this will not define our lives. do we forget it? no, we don't. do we feel as though someone that we trusted did something wrong to us? yes. there is anger, sadness, grief, a huge sense of loss. especially when we mature and we know that we've already had our "first" sex, etc. there isn't the "choice" of having a "first" time. that was taken years and years ago.

perhaps, a good question for you would be this, "how do you define "truly normal"? maybe that is what i'm confused about. i think a lot of us here are confused by your thinking that a victim can become "truly normal" after having been molested, abused, raped, etc.

i definitely do not believe that any abuser does it one time and never again. i do not believe that. i never have had one abuser, in group, who only did it once.

i understand part of what you're saying, but i am still confused by the above. xoxo pat

I've wanted to post on this thread lately, but find myself moving on instead...because anything I say will offend someone. I don't want to do that.

I'm hoping as each continues to post, that more and more information will arise.

a victum may survive but we do not get over it totally,
why slap the offender on the wrist and send him on his way, he didn't do that to his victum, he may not have murdered the body but he murdered the soul

Go ahead Sky... share your opinions........

I tried to come up with a compassionate answer for child molesters and it was a very weak suggestion..... and I wasn't being honest with myself with my reply... I honestly don't want a predator living next door to me. They are sneaky...they are sly...they are cunning... some even groom their potential victims.. They trick the victims..They promise to never do it again, but they always do... They can't control their urges...They should stay in prison.........Give them freedom to do it again..... no way........

we had two predators arrested yesterday one for porn online to a 12 yr old and one touching a 14 yr old boy, now there where they belongand the kids hopefully are safer

if anyone thinks that i'll ever forget my mother putting me in bed with my father........fat chance...............

and i've worked past it, but we don't "get over" it. it damages us...and yes, we can work on it and work on it.......

but relief for an offender????????? i'd like to "relieve" some of them............

just because it doesn't define me as a person doesn't mean that i'd want to take one of the SOBs to lunch!! we must protect the children of this generation and future generations. we must!

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nothemama8 said:
a victum may survive but we do not get over it totally,

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I agree with this statement totally.... I was just saying that exact same thing to another person I was talking with today, about sexual abuse, porn, lust and womanizing.... they were all factors in my abuse from 4 different men (as a child and an adult).

While one may survive a sexual abuse incident in their life they will never be the same again.... some wounds should never have been created.


Rhapsody -

hmmm what OTHER crime do we say, well they only did this crime once, so no reason to punish them forever? And this addiction seems intractable... not only can they not find a "cure" or preventative measure... but the perps do this more than "just once."

Maybe it's difficult for some members here to realize, or accept that... maybe it's muddled in their own memory issues... so many "what ifs?"

Many of you define things differently than I and others do. You think I'm saying one thing, when I'm saying another. I realize it, in your answers, that you're misinterpreting what I say, because you're defining things differently.

jennie said:
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Because . . . we must protect children.

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Yes, we have to protect children. Children (and women) as sexual objects is a worldwide epidemic. It's highly profitable. Even where it's illegal, in many cases, cops are paid to allow it to go on. I don't recall what state it is, but I just heard last night that there's a state that has just made it legal for 12-year-olds to get married (with parental consent).

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I know my opinion is biased. Yes, lock up all child sex offenders indefinitely. However, I would support release from prison if they willingly had a lobotomy.

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I have no problem with that. I'd be happy to be the one to dole out punishment on child sex offenders. Or any real sex offender.

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The question is . . . should we allow people like my father out in society . . . free and able to hurt a child??? He and other perverts promise they won't ever do it again.

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Well, as I've said, I don't believe pedophiles and predators should be let out after the first time. But if they are, our laws are supposed to be that, once you do your time, you should be able to lead a normal life. If you commit a crime again, you will again be punished. The recidividism rate for sexual predators is very high, so why are they let out at all?

I'm not disagreeing with you, but making it "ok" to harass someone who has done his time because he was a sexual predator and probably will do it again sets a precedent. It can lead to it being ok to harass other people for other crimes, once they've gotten out of jail. Again, why are these people let out of jail at all?

SeptemberMorn said:
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Surprise! Surprise! Believe it or not, there ARE one time offenders out there that no doubt have acheived a "normal" life. But have you stopped to think that offenders, at one time or another where victims, too??

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When I say "normal" in their case, I mean in terms of not re-offending. But yes, I absolutely think about the fact that many, if not most, offenders were also victims. In that, I can feel sorry for them. In that they go on to create victims themselves, I have no sympathy. I understand one part of why some become sexual offenders themselves: They felt out of control, powerless, when they were molested and raped. Now, they have the power. I get that. But it's not an excuse to harm a child.

Let me make something clear at this point: I do not think pedophiles and sexual predators should ever get out of jail once they get in for these crimes. I do think most of them, if not all of them, will do it again, given the chance. However, I am open to the possibility that someone, even one person, will change. And I'm only willing to consider that he should be given a second chance if the victim can move on to a normal life. (I'll comment on "normal life" after I respond to more posts.) I honestly do not think any victim truly gets over it, which is why I think sexual predators should permanently be punished.

I'm asking questions because I believe everyone deserves a fair trial. I also believe in second chances, if one deserves it (IMO) and shows oneself to be capable of changing, and one's victim's life isn't ruined, or severely damaged. I don't think sexual predators are likely capable of this. I think victims of sexual crimes are forever affected by it.

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Maven, do you personally know anyone who has been molested, raped and abused as a child? no one that i know, or have had in group therapy, entirely gets over and becomes "truly normal".

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Yes, I know several people. I don't think any sexual abuse victim gets over it entirely and becomes truly normal, either. But I'm asking the question, because I want other opinions. And SeptemberMorn did say she got over it. I'm not saying she means that it doesn't affect her, and I'm not saying she isn't facing the truth. But I asked, and that's what she answered.

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perhaps, a good question for you would be this, "how do you define "truly normal"? maybe that is what i'm confused about. i think a lot of us here are confused by your thinking that a victim can become "truly normal" after having been molested, abused, raped, etc.

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Where did I ever say that I believe a victim can become truly normal. Please read my words, and don't "read into" my posts. I don't mean that I never use expressions, but I try to speak as clearly as possible, and often literally. I'm not saying I never speak in a way that isn't literal or confusing, but rather than guess what I'm saying, please ask. I speak in details much of the time. I tend to be direct, but others read my meanings as if I danced around what I was saying. Usually, I mean what I say, not what you think I'm saying.

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i definitely do not believe that any abuser does it one time and never again. i do not believe that. i never have had one abuser, in group, who only did it once.

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I'm not saying there are any such abusers. But your experience may not speak for the whole.

nothemama8:
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a victum may survive but we do not get over it totally,
why slap the offender on the wrist and send him on his way, he didn't do that to his victum, he may not have murdered the body but he murdered the soul

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Well, I've already stated that I don't think a molester or rapist should be let out of jail, but as for slapping him on the wrist, I never said that. Even if an offender does it once and is let out of jail, he shouldn't be let out of jail for a long, long time. If I got to decide the sentence, he wouldn't be let out of jail. At all. Frankly, if I got to decide the punishment and had free reign in doing so, he'd be in a helluva lotta pain.

I think it is okay to ruin the lives of child sex offenders if they are released from prison. The precedent for perpetrators of child crimes should be set.

I think there should be no statue of limitations in pressing charges against child sex offenders.

My pedophile-rapist has admitted to me, my mom, and two clergymen that he molested me. Forget statue of limitations, his acknowledgement should be enough for me to put his butt in jail, label him as a sex offender and listed on national registry, and prevent him from being a pastor (or any position where children see him as an authority role).

I worry that so many get out of prison and are able to move to another town, change identity, and obtain pastoral licenses or other jobs that effect children's lives.

There are an exponential number of child sex offenders out in society that will never get charged for their crimes. That makes me very upset.

Naw, Maven. The rest of us don't misinterpret what you're saying.

IMO, and ONLY IMO, you seem to find something in a conversation that you pick up on and it seems to take the discussion in a different direction... that of some type of argument or differing opinion.

I'm not saying this to pick an argument or to hurt your feelings. It's just your way of speaking or expressing yourself.

Again, until YOU are sexually violated, you'll never understand how those of us who have, feel. For us, there is NO sympathy, empathy, concern, compassion or ANYTHING else good for these kind of people. NOTHING is going to change our minds or our hearts!

Repectfully, I do believe that you are playing the Devil's Advocate needlessly by thinking anything possitive about sexual predators or trying to make us believe that there is any kind of saving grace for these creatures!

Peace

walk a mile in my moccasions
Maven you have a good heart, and thank God you've never lived through this stuff, would you want an offender living next to you if you had children?

Better yet, how would she like a registered rapist living anywhere on her block??

when i was 40, i saw a woman on Phil Donahue telling my word for word story. i'll never forget sitting there, thinking that she was my mirror image and "what am i going to do about this?" ....years of therapy and i got better. my husband was ashamed of "me"........

you have no idea how many lives that one molestation victim affects. no idea. and please don't start on my husband......he also worked through it.

it seems to me, that everyone who has contributed to this thread has been violated...except for Maven. i'd say majority rules on this one.

AND, if you are running a therapy group and most of the patients are either depressive or addicts. then you get a pedophile added into the mix. and he leans back in his chair and smirks and says, "as soon as i get out, i'm hitting the streets again"........

how do you think that makes you feel? i couldn't hit him. the judge ordered him into treatment. he had raped his daughter.

three days after he got out, i saw him at our local park, with his beautiful golden retriever, with a flock of small children around him. i puked. literally puked. then i went to a phone and called the police. thank god, our district attorney was a good, sharp man and he was all over him within two hours. that time, he went to jail for 15 years.

my experience may not be the be-all, know all, maven, but i know more about it than most. i worked at the psych hospital for three full years. consider running groups for a total of 8 hours a day, five days a week. how many patients do you think i saw in three years? and most of them were only in for four weeks. i burned out and took a sabbatical and never went back to it. pat

pat

Now I understand the reason I didn't want this thread closed.. It just hit me... I feel the pain so deeply for the survivors that have spoken out on this thread..Yes there is damage. Yes we can overcome. But there will always be this sense in the back of our minds, that we have been violated. Some, such as me, never understood why they kept looking over their shoulder all of their lives, that is until remembering being violated as a child... When we think of damage we sometimes think of discarding what has been damaged.. And then some know of the damage, but they have sewn a patch on the damaged parts and continued forward.. The damage will always be there.. The key is, there is more to us than just damage.. If we were damaged totally we would not be here today...But with understanding and healing, the damage will be just a small part of who we are...Some have become very successful.. whereas others have only managed to keep their heads above water...But they all survived!!! Despite the odds...There is hope within for damaged aspects of ourselves...Healing can happen... Healing may be a lifelong process.. There can be healing because we are all survivors.. We not only survived, we kept putting one foot in front of the other, and in many ways, never gave up.... Yes, we survived.... Wow.. I think i got it.....

I, also, am an outsider in this, but can empathize I think because I "got it" years ago.

I could have taken the devil's advocate on this, also... but why should the devil have an advocate in the first place!

But ... just in case.... what if? What if one of our members here were an abuser at one time?...what if it is a mental disorder that noone's working on a medicine or cure for?... what if it's connected to head trauma?....

I refer to Dershowitz' book, " The Abuse Excuse. " For when someone has been abused (such as a former generation where nothing was known or talked about) and carries on that abuse as a way of life they only know... not knowing why they would do that... sigh...

The group is coming across as quite adamantly insensitive. I choose to express that while we all acknowledge an abuser is a human being... they have to be stopped... until those what ifs are answered... we really are caring about people...but safety comes first. Right?

adamantly realistic is how i see the group. the majority of the group here weren't safe. there is a feeling to that that is unlike any other. you have to experience it to feel it.

if there is an abuser here, i hope that help has been sought. the Dateline series is about the prevention of someone being abused. and that is what we've been discussing 90% of the time.

sorry, Sky, i don't feel adamantly insensitive. p

oops I was off topic.... searched abuse excuse but didn't realize it wasn't the one mentioned..... deleted

Don't I feel stupid... should have read closer before responding.........

Radio, if I may please, take these two sentences from your post and tell you how I feel now...

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But there will always be this sense in the back of our minds, that we have been violated. ... And then some know of the damage, but they have sewn a patch on the damaged parts and continued forward.. The damage will always be there.

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The fact that I was sexually abused is NOT always in the back of my head. It only comes to the fore during discussions like this one or on a one on one.

I don't feel damaged in any way. The blame for those actions falls squarely on my grandmother's shoulders... and on my dad's.

The fact that I was a promiscuous teenager, I take that responsibility because I knew better! My mom had drummed it into my head that it's wrong to have sex before marriage. I, personally, discarded that. I have forgiven myself because now I understand that I was looking for a connection with someone else. I didn't have it at home nor did I have a friend that I had that connection with. I was also looking for someone to "take care of me" emotionally.

As for putting a patch over the damaged area, to me it's more like a broken bone. When you break a bone, more bone grows over the break making that part stronger. That's how I view the hurt part of me. It's stronger now. *I* am stronger now.

Like Maya Angelou says "Wouldn't Take Nothin' For My Journey Now"!

I understand where your coming from.... k.... But I think each person "healing" and/or "gets it", is as individual as we are all unique.. I can't say as you have, that I have not been damaged.. I am damaged.. My problem through out all of this "supposed healing" process was very confusing to me...And just today I realized that I am not just damaged goods..... There is a lot more to me than just what has been damaged.. I can also understand that what is damaged can be mended... Maybe I patched things over, but also seeing that I've become one covered with many patches and nothing was left, but patches....Either patched or discarded,I was living a defeated life........My "getting it" today to me means I can look under the patches, clean up the wounds, mend and go forward with hope... not with the self defeating attitude that I've had for a long time..There may be scars, but they won't be infected, seeping with loath and self hate and defeat......... You had strength where I didn't... I am a lil old to discover "inner strength", but I am glad I did.......Better now than never ...

I'm not saying that I wasn't damaged! I was! But it was the healing, just like a broken bone, that made me strong.

You're "old"? I've been finding this healing for 15-20 yrs. I will be 63 this year. Don't give me "old"! LOL