talking back to me talking back

It all started in the chronic pain forum. Basically I have some issues that sometimes and sometimes often cause me extreme pain. Well, I have done the whole spine clinic thing and thought I had a plan.

I went to my personal physician whom I have liked and trusted for a long time and she went over the spine clinic stuff and told me that I should not be on narcotics except in an extreme flare up. I was stunned, having already taken a vicodin 2 plus hours before for pain in mid back region, and still in pain. I asked her about what she was thinking and she said there is nothing on the science from the tests that speaks to my severe pain and that I had to manage on celebrex and narcotics infrequently for extreme flare ups. She said she didn't want to help me to get addicted. She also told me a very high number of scripts since August and I know there is no way in hell I have taken that many pills. She stated she trusted me etc, and wanted to help me.

Well, I have been stewing, took 2 more vicodin after visit yesterday and was pain free. I have been in a lot of physical pain today.

I was never believed as a child. It was not only wrong but dangerous to ask for anything to get your needs met. I didn't feel pain like other people most of my life and still don't feel it like other people. I have a very high tolerance.

I know this is my PTSD, on one hand writing a letter to her stating I needed P,T, acqua therapy, and on the other telling her about today's pain and my feeling helpless. I put every container of everything I had prescrption-wise and put it in a bag and dropped it off at her office with a letter. She wasn't in today and will be monday. She perscribes my anti-depressants, prozac, wellbutrin. She prescribes clonazapam. Well, no matter what your logic wants to say to me, I know and I can't let it in. I am cold turkey from everything as of today. I also called the drug store and I am going to get a printout of all meds since August. I feel so horrid, disbelieved and now I understand the hospital treating me like %#@&#! when my rotator cuff and bursitis/tendonitis was happening.

I am angry and I don't care if it's cutting off my nose to cut my face. I just don't even believe in docs now. I don't trust they can help and I am done. I started tumeric which is supposed to be for inflamation tonight. I will start the st Johns wort etc but I will never ever be dependent on anyone ever again to help me with my pain.

For someone reason in my opinion the biggest mistake Doctors make is not believing a patient when they say they are in pain. I don't know if its from that the patient is just seeking drugs or because, they are afraid of making an addict out of their patient. Or because, they actually think they know our bodies better than we do. But, most doctors in todays society are usually just too afraid and too distrusting of their patients because, of all teh negative conotations involved with prescribing pain meds.

My husband walked around in pain ( from his left hip and femur ) for 2 years and no matter how many times we would go to the doctor telling her, he is hurting so bad he can't sleep at night. He can't hardly walk etc...she would tell him to take some Motrin or Tylenol. Then of all things she ran tests on his stomach??!?!?!? what does the stomach have to do with hip and leg pain???? Did blood work dozens of times, always came back with abnormal red and white blood cell counts and liver panels all mess up. But, she just kept telling him to take tylenol. Finally after 2 years, we went in to talk to her again about his hip and leg. I got so mad, I raised my voice and yelled her to do something for him. She sent him for an xray. And guess what, they found a Tumor in his left femur that had almost eaten completely thru the bone. Needless to say he has better doctors now who listen to us. Oh she apologized and prescribed him some pain meds finally but, only enough to last a few days till his appt. with the cancer specialist.

I am sorry Wise that you are having to deal with Dr.s like that. The crappy thing is once Dr.s and or emergency rooms mark your files with pain med seeker or possible addict. You are more than likely never gonna be able to get the right amount or type of pain meds you need for your pain.

I can suggest you go to a new doctor and start fresh ( which can be a total pain in the rear. ) but, just tell them you are there for a second opinion. And don't sign papers for them to see files from your former Dr.

I hope things get better for you. Take care and be safe.

On a side note. I should have mentioned this before. My husband has a pain specialist he sees. The pain specialist manages all his pain and talks with him in detail about any and all discomfort or pain he might have. You could ask your Dr. to refer. you to one or if you don't need a referall set up an appt. with one and have your records sent to the pain specialist.

They are there to help your pain and are trained to understand that people experience pain differently. What might not be too painfull for some, can be excrutiating for others. Dunno if that will help but, might check into that.

WW the actual number of scripts and shots is verifiable...for both sides Contact your pharmacist and ask for a run down on the scripts and tablets etc. Your doctor's office or hospital can give you the number of visits for shots etc...and then you can be armed with data when she says that again!

I'm sorry you gave away your meds. NOT good, imo. She will probably let you go through withdrawal, as that's what she wants imo... or at least wants you off the meds.

Most MDs don't understand pain, and they only have the FDA to answer to and get skitterish about prescribing. My MD doesn't even keep any narcotic meds in her office, not even for a flare shot Ignorance and failure to care, that's what it is, in my POV. My MD has even admitted on record that I'm not on a high dose of narcotics, yet she brow beats me about it all the time. I quit going to her monthly now, as ordered, because no one stepped up to admit they were having me see her monthly.

Only, sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread, but wanted you to know it's common.

I do think your taking the meds and flailing them at her (in your mind) was a PTSD reaction to not being believed and being attacked (in your mind.) PTSD is a beast.

No pain centers in FL that are worth... anything. Hope you can find one up there.

Sky, she has all of the meds, depression, anxiety, you name it. I will go through withdrawals but I am prepared. I am doing some herbal things that I believe will help. And you are right it was and is a PTSD reaction. I was depending on her to help me and she failed me. HISTORY, I was depending on the ER to help me and they not only failed me, they victimized me. I feel that last visit was traumatic. who are these people responsible to? My shoulder was big time pain more then this body has ever known and they treated me like poop. I like my doc as a person but your right, it's a fear thing. In my mind if she can't help me with the pain I don't trust her with the rest of it either. It has been a good cocktail though, the depression/anxiety meds but maybe they do something to highten pain senses.

Hanging on by a thread of snot here.

Doctors are just like anyone else, just with a slightly different background/"education." They're not all-knowing, all-good, all-helpful, all-caring but have the usual mix of personality, skills, interests, abilities, etc. that we all have.

I was never ill until 3 years ago and then my appendix burst. A simple 3-day operation/situation costing a total of around $5,000 took 5-1/2 months and cost $35,000-$40,000. I was seriously jeopardized (could have died) by doctors, hospital and emergency room over that period several times and finally it was uneducated, ignorant, didn't-have-a-primary-physician ME who finally figured out what the ongoing problem was and kept myself out of the operating room. Heck of a crash, medical education! So now I'm "starting over" having moved last summer to this location, got my husband and myself a primary care physician (did learn I needed to choose and get to know doctors before I got sick :-) but I still have troubles with my current, chronic (from the 2003 mess) problems. I see my health practitioner next Wednesday and I'm still trying to figure out how to point out a serious mistake I discovered without making them feel defensive or like I'm being difficult.

No one cares about your health more than yourself. It's not possible. Take care of yourself, wisewoman but please don't do it in a way that is just to spite the doctor. She's not going to see it that way as it can only injure yourself. It's very hard forging and maintaining any kind of relationship and a doctor/patient relationship is a very intimate one and one of the most difficult kinds. If you do or don't want meds that's okay, your choice as it is your life, your health, but do go off them in a healthy way! Don't damage yourself because someone else didn't see they had to make themselves clearer after a potentially thoughtless comment.

Perna, I know you are right on here. Unfortunately I can't get out of this place and I am determined to need nothing from no one. This speaks to your comment about the patient physician relationship being a very intimate one. I am running for the hills. I am hurt and feel like I have been disapproved of, scolded, unloved, unbelieved. I know it relates to the past. I can tell you exactly how but I can't move past it.

I just feel bad, wish you could scale back from the meds in a better way so you didn't replace it with less effective/safe ones like alcohol and Tylenol.

I was thinking about the ob/gyn who nearly got me killed (let infection move into my ovaries and grow out of control) and I feel the same way about ob/gyns now so I sympathize with you.

I always add "yet" to things I'm having problems with now. "Can't move past it, yet" :-) My T laughed/enjoyed it when I told her about that policy of mine, to add the "yet" and did it. It's really helpful, keeps you moving forward. What's that quip, "Never say never"?

yet...

I have to say I have not had a major ptsd reaction like this one for a year when I flipped and quit my job. Now I am aware in a brain sense what going off all of those meds at once can do to me but I am also unable, {yet} to stop the feelings of having been disbelieved, rejected, called a liar, trusting and being sucker punched. And then I tried to objectively step back and this woman has had me on a ton of drugs forever!!!!!! Yes, quality of PTSD, black and white thinking, it has not been forever. Prevacid, Clonazapam, Wellbutrin XR, prozac, then the pain meds, I had asked them at one point to step down to a smaller dose and now they think I am drug seeking? Also all of the migraine and other intermitent stuff.

Well, I don't have pain but since the little dachsund I recently rescued has been in heet and getting blood everywhere I had three beds of blankets, sheets, you name it to do! I went to the laundrymat as doing that much at home would be at least a three day job and then there would be the daily laundry as well. So I went to do it all at once and after an hour I couldn't lift my arms above my stomach. My back feels not so great and both shoulders hurt. So, I am just reclining for a bit after coming home, leaving all of the laundry in the car for hubby to bring in, making up three beds completely except mine as I ran out of clean blankets and want my wool ones back anyway.

I will pay, I know, but how do I get out of this thinking of wanting to push myself to the max, not take meds, and prove that I don't need anyone or anything to change? I feel like I am 20 again for crying out loud!!!!!!!! I AM relying on hubby, he knows what I did and understands why. He is also aware that I may be facing some nasty withdrawals and he promised to be here for me in whatever way possible.

So, I don't expect you all to have the answers, just complaining, venting, trying to sort this all out.

WW,

In retrospect are you glad you quit your job last year?


EJ

yup!

WW,

Then it's all good!

from working in an ER, i believe that a lot of doctors get jaded because they do have to deal with addicts a lot.

but on the other hand, i also observed a doctor being a perfect *** to a reasonable and articulate patient who was complaining of pain. she had cancer in her spine. and it was a power trip for him.

i took him into a room and when i finished with him, i knew that i'd either be fired or he'd be a better doctor. he went back in and treated her as a human being who needed his help desperately.

i think it's a crap shoot when you go to ER.......like Forrest Gump said, "you never know what you'll get".....

i'm so sorry that you were victimized by a doctor. i wish i had been with you. they put their pants one, one leg at a time, just like the rest of us do and i don't suffer fools, medical or not. please PM me or e.mail me and i'll hang in there with you.....love you, pat

I always know and tell others NEVER to go to E.R. or doc alone and ignored my own advice. Thanks for being there, here. This week will have to show some changes or I will self-destruct. vicodin, lower does $10.00 a pill on street. I know it's an issue, but it's not mine and that stuff is for sissies anyway. i have worked up to needing to take it round the clock or using something stronger when severe pain comes which seems like daily. Trying to stay out of body as much as I can. But I am aware that even with the max of 4,000 mgs of acetominophen in me I can't get comfortable.

WW, don't take this the wrong way, because you KNOW I KNOW about chronic pain...

how long have you been taking the vicodin or other strong pain meds? What doses did you begin at and what doses are you at? What level pain did you begin with, and what level pain are you at now, most of the time, and when it's at it's best for you? Have you ever gone totally off the meds, long enough to allow them to totally leave your system (weeks?)

Don't answer here, but write these things down. SOMETIMES you do get rebound pain... stupid drugs... of course you wouldn't want to be trying to deal with that in addition to your chronic pain...

tell me more please. I don't take meds even daily. I average 35 pills per month since august. This means a lot of those were used for my shoulder and that there are days, 2-3 where I don't take anything at all. Calling pain clinic. Please explain rebound pain, I am not familiar.

Hello I hope you are feeling better at this time. I feel that since you are in pain you need to see someone that can help you with your pain management, in a manner that you can live with. Pain can be very debilitating mentally and physically and you need someone that can help you in a manner that can help you mentally and physically, at this time, and understand you want the least amount of druge possible for hte pain in order for you to be able to maneuvour yourself in your daily activities. Possibly getting rehabilitative therapy would help to keep you from having to take high doses of medication. I hope the best for you Take care Soidhonia

Yes, I am getting referral to P.T. and will be doing water exercises as well. I am working on reversing the distress I inflicted on myself in anger and pain and am getting back on meds today. Yes, in my mind I threw them in the doc's face. PTSD is such a bear.

Rebound pain and doctors who won't treat pain:

http://www.prolonews.com/doctors_who...treat_pain.htm

Perna, I saw this as I did a google and it seems like one place pushing their agenda? I did not know that opiates suppress the immune system. I have made appoints for PT and for pain clinic which can't see me till Jan 8 unless they get a cancellation. I spoke to an old P.T. friend of mine and she helped me feel better about myself. I know that I really jumped off the deep end here with being frightened and not wanting to need anything from anyone. So here i go needing the pain clinic and P.T. I would appreciate anything you or anyone knows about rebound pain though. Thanks.

Well, 24 hours back on reg meds and I feel exhausted from the ordeal. I feel really frightened,-still by the experience with the doc. I just had a call from her office, they have sched me to start Thurs instead of fri at 9:00 a.m I am still waiting for doc herself to call but we will see, I doubt she will. It leaves me in a place of fear, distrust and depression. I will not take the narcotics. My back is okay today. I would say I was more sore then anything. And I will wait for the pain clinic. But what do I do with the whole fear and self-loathing? The fear is so big.

WW,

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this. Do you have any anti-anxiety medication? Do you have a nice big bathtub, that you could soak in?

I wish Fayerody lived closer. I don't know about you, but I would always like to have her on my side if a fight was necessary.

Keep us posted!

Hugs,

EJ

You ain't kidding, would love to have Pat advocate for me. Yes I do have
meds but they are a little low in my blood system right now. I know this too shall pass. But geez it's fun. NOT. well, I am watching puppies now and they are destroying all of the toys Iput down for them and are eating my toes and pant legs. They are so funny. I would expect at some point they would settle down. Three are trying to nap now but large families... 4 is chewing on three's neck. I think 4 is sky's puppy. They are way too cute.

Waiting to see if Doc calls me back.