[MotownJohnny]

Is this seriously ALL I can look forward to the rest of my life, being set off by any odd random event, and feeling like crap for days or weeks or months or forever?

Really? I must have been a terrible person in some past life if this is what Karma or God or the Universe or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or whoever/whatever wants for me.

Because it just all feels so hopeless. It's such a multi-faceted problem, like a giant knot of thousands of strands, virtually impossible to unravel. And without end.

Kind of like eternal damnation to suffer, just without the actual hellfire and brimstone.

I feel like I'm trapped on this hamster wheel, but if I stop, I die. The people in my life who should support and love me the most treat me like crap for the most part, accusing me of being selfish for spending time on myself, telling me I'm irresponsible because I no longer follow their orders like I did all of my life and act like their groveling underling. (Yes, I had a fight with a family member, that's what that comment is all about).

And, I feel like crap today physically, and I have to get a lot of things done, even though all I really want to do is go to bed, and it will be hours before that is even a remote possibility.

So instead, all I can do is sit here, abuse my body with another shot of caffeine in the form of an energy drink, and try to get through the next 9 hours or so until I can go to bed, then get up tomorrow at 4 am and start it all over again.

[Parley]

I hate to feed your fire but i'm going to say something I've never said in my life.

I believe if I were a man, I would have more issues. I imagine I would have the same needs but I wouldn't have had the same choices (that goes both ways. I'm not giving up my own fights). Maybe I would have but society's views of me would have been harsher and probably had more of an impact.

I've never in my life had an energy drink.

Sorry Motown~ not trying to bring your down. Just wanted to say what I recognized from your post.

[glok]

Hello, MotownJohnny. What you are doing is not working. Change is the only viable option. What do you think you need to change? Would professional help to guide be helpful?

[Open Eyes]

(((Mowtown))),

I am sorry you are having a down and emotional day today. But I am glad you came here to vent it out. I had a bad morning myself and luckily I had therapy today and got to vent it, plus other big issues that are challenging, one being very much like yours, having family that is unsupportive when I need support.

Mowtown, these days will come up where you come across something that you need to mourn, it doesn't mean you will forever be this way, as my T said to me today, try not to get too far into the future with this. You need to make note of how you feel and discuss it in therapy, that is something that is part of trauma work that you do with your T. You are not going to change your family, instead, you will change how that affects you and that really takes time, I am dealing with that myself.

Oh, how I wish I lived near you so you could stop by to vent and get a hug, you certainly do need that. I try to do that in my words to you, I already know you have a good heart and have been trying very hard in your healing. You "are" a kind hearted man Mowtown, and you just need some more time to heal, you need to be patient with yourself, and I know first hand there are days when that is hard. I also know all about feeling like you are on that mouse wheel, I get so I feel that way myself, god knows I have a lot on my plate and I have to ignore the comments when others around me are unsupportive and trigger me or upset me.

I had therapy today and I had so much to vent I was all over the place. My T stopped me and he said, "you see what you are doing now?" He said, this is what some misdiagnose as Bipolar because they think these racing thoughts are Bipolar thoughts when instead what you are doing is trying to run from all the emotions you are dealing with, it takes a knowledegable trauma specialist to recognize the difference. I thought that was interesting to know. My T has read through my records and has seen the mistakes made with me he asked me if he could keep them for a while and I think he is planning on doing something and showing my records as an example of what not to do with a trauma patient.

You need to talk about how you feel in this thread with your therapist too Mowtown, you are trying very hard, but you cannot run away from your emotions, you need to vent them out and have them validated correctly and as my T explained to me that means I need to slow down more plan to focus on one thing at a time. Well, that isn't easy is it?

So bring what you wrote here to your next therapy session ok? I hear you and , easy does it take some time outs at work and self sooth, take deep breaths slowly learn how to work on using some techniques to get you off that "mouse wheel", hey I have to work on that myself so I know it isn't easy at first.


OE

[Hellion]

I feel like that quite a lot, I certainly don't see a 'cure' that would work on me in the near future, but of course going on this way still can suck a lot...I think it is one of the major things that contributes to sometimes becoming suicidal. So I don't know I do my best to keep going, get burnt out, feel suicidal go to the hospital....and essentially do it all over again like the last time I was in the psych ward I did not think of it as my last time since I am sure that wont be the last time I am too stressed and overwhelmed and need it to stop while trying to appreciate and enjoy some things in life being I am 24 one only gets to be in their 20's once and I've probably already missed out on a lot of things.

I have no useful advice or anything, just similar feelings about having PTSD.

[unaluna]

I think my t (or past ts) would say, "You ALWAYS have a choice."

[doglover1979]

I'm so sorry you feel this way.

If it makes you feel any better, my 20's were a spiral of mental health hell and I had no idea what was happening. You are ahead of the game by recognizing that something is going on.

I know that doesn't make it feel better, but I do believe there is healing for you. You will find your way.

[MotownJohnny]

Thank you for the kind sentiments.

Maybe the problem is that ... I'm searching for a solution that doesn't really exist. Perhaps I should just accept this for what it is, and let it just "be".

I know metaphorically running on a treadmill chasing a vision of "cure" just isn't getting me anywhere.

Has anyone ever just walked away from all of the "treatment", said "to Hell with it," dropped the therapists, doctors, medications and had it work?

A big part of me says "crazy is as crazy does" (a la Forrest Gump), and if I stop "acting crazy" by seeing therapists and doctors and chasing after some "cure", and just live a normal, day to day life and try to FORGET about it all, let it stay in the past, and just deal with the triggers in my own way, recognizing them for the ghosts of the past that they are, I would be so much better off? Time to take my toys and go home?

[Bolivar83]

Dear Motown Johnny: I've felt similar things- does this ever end? Am I doomed to constantly questions, minute by minute, whether or not I am a good person? I too feel as though I am strapped to some self-flagellating machine that runs endlessly on a loop of illness, acting out, shame, guilt, and brief respite before it sucks me into the gears, again.

What really stood out for me is that you just fought with a family member. Also, how it is difficult to escape the roles every family assigns to its members (they are used to you being/acting x or y, etc).

Family arguments are absolutely one of my own triggers, and the fallout of guilt and anger can last for days. When you attempt to change, this can threaten them, and conflict can increase. Just wonder if your thoughts of "will this ever change?" are what naturally blooms out from this trigger for you...

Forgive my assumptions/if my comments are too personal.

Hang in there - the ups and downs are kind of par for the course. In my own case, therapy, keeping med compliant, and trying to keep my health have made a difference. But, ***** still comes out of nowhere and blind sides me every now & then. I guess that's part of mental illness (thanks, universe!).

Please take care; hope you post follow up & tell how you are faring.

Best - Bolivar

[Open Eyes]

Mowtown, you were triggered by unhealthy statements your family made to you. It set you back and triggered you. While you can't change them to grow up and behave, you can change how you react, that takes time.

Yes, some people have talked about giving up therapy and medications etc, but, that is only telling yourself to give up on yourself and those are not the messages you should feed into.

Instead, you need to talk about how you are feeling in therapy, you have had some triggers lately that has affected you negatively. When that happens it tends to present the negative emotions you are describing and you need to work through whatever that is and gain on it.

Remember, healing is not just a straight line going upwards, it is up and down for a time until you and slowly learn to overcome these obstacles. I have these ups and downs myself, just have to be patient when they happen and talk through them.

[JaneC]

I don't know Johnny......I have often felt the way are describing. That it might just be easier to put all the hurt back away and go on living as if it were no there.

The problem with that, for me, is now I realise that I wasn't living to my full potential. I don't mean I wasn't "achieving", because I was. I had a fabulous career, money, stuff.....but I was not living in a fulfilling meaningful way. I had lost connection with all of true values.

Now, as painful and hard as this journey is (and some days you see it here, I frikkin well hate the shyte I have to deal with) I truly believe that it takes far more courage to go through this, than to hide it away. And that by going through it, I'll find my meaningful and content life.

And I believe you can too......you already see glimpses of it right? Just keep taking that next right step.

[MotownJohnny]

Originally Posted by JaneC

The problem with that, for me, is now I realise that I wasn't living to my full potential. I don't mean I wasn't "achieving", because I was. I had a fabulous career, money, stuff.....but I was not living in a fulfilling meaningful way. I had lost connection with all of true values.

Now, as painful and hard as this journey is (and some days you see it here, I frikkin well hate the shyte I have to deal with) I truly believe that it takes far more courage to go through this, than to hide it away. And that by going through it, I'll find my meaningful and content life.

I instantly had a strong response to your post. I know exactly what you mean, but I see it as 180 degrees from what you are saying.

I think the entire ordeal has been far too drawn out, and that I am placing far too much emphasis on "the cure", at the expense of living a fulfilling life in the here and now.

The more I think this over, the more I am convinced that I need to walk away from so much of this - chasing after the "next thing" that will "fix" me, and just settle down and start living a "normal" life that isn't centered around the next appointment.

I know I have arrived at a few fundamentals: I can't rely on other people to create happiness for me - I have to do that for myself; I can't exhaust myself to the point of collapse; and I can't live perpetually in a state of disgrace.

[SkyWhite]

What I'm sensing in your post MotownJonny is good healthy anger. And why shouldn't you be angry? You've been and are being treated like s**t. But don't let that anger drag you into hopelessness and defeat, and please, please don't talk about Karma or being punished by God or aliens or whatever. You're not being punished and it makes me sad every time I hear people say these things because it just adds salt to their wounds.

When my eyes were finally opened to all the s**t and abuse I had to endure as a child and then as an adult, I got rip roaring mad too. Now I'm taking that anger and telling myself they are not going to break me, they're not going to win. I'm going to get well and they can all go f**k themselves!
Don't drop therapy, it'll make things worse. Get mad, then get well.

[MotownJohnny]

I don't know if I would say "anger" - I've been there and done that for so long. I still have some anger towards the past, but it isn't my overwhelming feeling. I am so ready to be done with all of this. And I need a life where I'm in control of it. This really isn't me being in control, because I'm always chasing around doing X, Y, and Z because someone suggested it will fix things.

I've gone to therapy for about 22 months almost weekly, and it helped some things, but it still can't ever "solve" some of the basics. These things will always be there, no matter what. I will always have had a bad childhood, I will always have had a bad experience with a doctor, I will always have ended up in the day hospital program, I will never be able to erase that from my "permanent record" unless I suddenly become the greatest computer hacker ever and figure out how to delete it all from my electronic medical records, and develop super breaking and entering skills and destroy the paper files, too.

Maybe this is the "radical acceptance" I keep being told I should come to.

Therapy feels like a broken record, it's the same old same old every week. I guess the thing about it is, it's a "no harm/no foul" situation to quit it, you can always go back, and if that one can't see you, there are a thousand more that can.

[Open Eyes]

((Mowtown))),

I totally understand what you are saying/feeling because I have felt that way myself. I took some time out from therapy myself, just a couple of weeks. I did feel like I was living around therapy at times.

However, I am seeing you have some challenges that put you "back" some and I feel you need to have a therapist you can talk through these "setbacks" with too. I don't think it is the therapy that tires you out, it is just facing these setbacks and how exhausting they can be that is tiring. 'ME TOO".

I totally understand what you mean by how disturbed you are with your records too. I have been discussing that with my therapist too. I met with him on Tuesday and I was in bad shape tbh. I sat down and started to talk about all the triggers I had just in the past week and I had so much ground to cover and I was literally darting around trying to get it all in. He stopped me and said, "Do you see what you are doing?" and I thought about it because I have been this way a lot, as I really do have a lot to discuss. Well, Mowtown, he said that what I was doing is the "PTSD and how a patient in trauma does exactly what I was doing" and he said that what I was doing has been "misdiagnosed" as bipolar instead of being diagnosed for what it really is "PTSD". I was so glad he stopped me and pointed that out because it did make me realize what he was saying and yes, he is right and I thought about you Mowtown and how "you" were misunderstood too.

My therapist has asked me if he could keep my records and I think he wants to address it with his colleges because he sees how much I have suffered that was not fair to me as a patient.

Well I was severely triggered on Monday by two different situations and when I reached out my husband's responses made me even worse. By the time I got to sit in front of my therapist I was in such bad condition and when I was trying to tell him so many things came forward all at once that he saw how much I was struggling and did stop me and took the time to point out what I had just explained to you.

Quite frankly, for the past two days I have been crying and totally "exhausted". Yes, I would like to be able to take a break from it too.

I do think you should talk about all this with your therapist though Mowtown. I know it is tiring, I hear you. If you feel you need a break, then maybe talk to your therapist about
possibly taking a couple of weeks off, but I don't recommend breaking away from therapy completely.

(((Hugs))))
OE

[MotownJohnny]

I'm not opposed to that - tonight is the night, in fact, I think I'm going to say "every other week". It is physically tiring just to run there every week, she is halfway across the Metro area in the next county, about 30 miles from home, luckily in a line with work so I am halfway there when I leave to go to her office.

I was raised that everything was black or white, and everything was a crisis. Things don't have to be either of those, there are a billion shades of gray, and not everything is "a big deal".

Yeah, you have been through the wringer. Take care of yourself, you hear?

[Fresia]

When I was looking for a cure or to fix it all the time, I made myself miserable. I did stop one day doing everything, no more T's, treatments, etc., chucked it all. This went on for some time until I realized since I was just a miserable and there was no cure, but that I do have a choice in what i do to deal with it. The problem for me wasn't with the treatments, providers or in having none of them, it was my mindset in how I looked at things and wanting to get rid of it. I was unrealistic at this time.

I started looking for ways, instead of ways to fix it and to get rid of it, just to cope with it and to find strategies that worked to help ease it instead and let go of the the mindset that it was ever going to go away, which was hard to get my mind around at first to accept. So many things have cures, why not this? Accepting this wasn't one of those illnesses yet with a cure and changing my thinking got me out of a race with myself to get to the next big thing that would take everything away because that was not going to happen, only if they lobotomized me was that apparently going to happen and not so common these days to get.

For some reason turning this around for me knowing it would be a part of me, but that it could be coped with, changed things and knowing I do have a choice in how I deal with it and let it get to me. I began to handle things better and though still traumatic at times, it is better than it was.

I don't know if it helps to know that I found, that if it doesn't go away, I will actually be ok and can be for you too. Know that though it is still annoying and can bring me to my knees, that it does not level me anymore and I can pick myself much faster now. Do not give up, it doesn't have to level you. Know there are are choices in how you deal with it.

I don't know if this helps but no matter, I do hope you find the answers that you seek, the help that you want, ease of symptoms, and the courage to continue with finding the path that is right for you. Take good care of you meanwhile.

[Open Eyes]

I think that is a good idea, going every other week for a while, nothing wrong with that. It would be nice if you could fill in that empty spot with some kind of Yoga or meditation
classes.

OE

[Parley]

I don't think it's possible to walk away and forget.

I have not tried to cure my symptoms but I've controlled them because I had no choice and I wasn't about to be an 80's ginny pig. I never forget about my problems and my ghost are getting stronger. My acceptance for that time was good but it isn't working any longer. I still need to face my ghost and accept the damage that was done to me.

I don't think needing help is a bad thing and I hope 20 something months isn't considered to be a long time in therapy. I don't think i'm gonna make it out by then.

I hope you don't give up~ but nothing wrong with changing your strategy or having help.

[JaneC]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

I instantly had a strong response to your post. I know exactly what you mean, but I see it as 180 degrees from what you are saying.

I think the entire ordeal has been far too drawn out, and that I am placing far too much emphasis on "the cure", at the expense of living a fulfilling life in the here and now.

The more I think this over, the more I am convinced that I need to walk away from so much of this - chasing after the "next thing" that will "fix" me, and just settle down and start living a "normal" life that isn't centered around the next appointment.

I know I have arrived at a few fundamentals: I can't rely on other people to create happiness for me - I have to do that for myself; I can't exhaust myself to the point of collapse; and I can't live perpetually in a state of disgrace.

I 100% agree that forgetting to live your life and only focusing on therapy and a 'cure' is not healthy.....not at all. And that is not what I was alluding to at all when I said it is important to go through it. I also agree that we do need to be responsible for our own happiness, that living in disgrace and going and going until we are exhausted are not useful.

I have come to realise that it is crucial TO make sure I am doing everything I can to 'go on with my life' WHILE I am in therapy. If I spent my entire existence trying to continue to escape or 'cure' what stresses me.....it would be pointless to be in therapy. I would be repeating long held patterns and end up nowhere.

So while it is often excruciating to get on with life, deal with my triggers etc......I keep on doing it because I know it is the way to find the meaningful life I deserve to live. Therapy is part of what I am doing to move forward.....it is not the everything.

Johnny, I think it sounds like you know what you need and the direction that is going to work for you....and if it doesn't pan out, well......you just take the next path. And finding time to relax, in a way that works for you, also sounds good. As you say, shades of grey.......shades of grey hun.

I also wondered, is it maybe a good time to work on that sense of disgrace with your T? I want to work on my feelings of constant shame. I wonder if instead of focusing on the past, it is possible to work with the current feelings of disgrace and process them to a more useful place? And if you do that will help you to find the peace and space to live life without the desperate chasing? You got this Johnny. I know you do.....I can see it through your posts.

Take good care ok.

[Teacake]

Johnny, because your trauma ocurred in childhood you have two issues. The first is the development of your personality around childhood trauma. The second is the physiology of a body that doeant know how to let go trauma.

Body oriented therapy can put you in the right parasympathetic state that allows the body to let trauma go and makes psychotherapy much more effective.

There are effective treatments for PTSD and the other disorders of traumatic experience. Being able to distinguish the different disorders is important. When actual DSM described PTSD is part of the picture coaxing the body down from fight readiness to calm and peaceful is essential. When ptsd is the only dx that's the only cure needed. When psychotherapy is needed, a parasympathetic body state makes psychotherapy much easier, simpler, quicker, and more tolerable. When your body is relaxed and food therapy is pleasant.

When your body is normal, and you can experience pleasure and love and simple joy, you dont worry about "mentations" or "horrible imaginings".

My dad had ptsd and my mother was a profoundly gifted borderline. When I was all ptsd all the time myself I thought I had a terrible childhood. When I can knock off the ptsd tension and live in a happy parasympathetic body, I see that I had an optimal and very enriched childhood. It becomes so easy to see the folks as very human human beings. It is also possible to have an adult perspective on childhood, to remember without reliving. Our perspective changes with our state.

Psychotherapy can be very destructive in a tense and panicked body.

Sometimes people like to hurt themselves. A lot of people seek therapies and treatments that they like to complain of as being horrible. Its obviously better not to do that.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Teacake

Sometimes people like to hurt themselves. A lot of people seek therapies and treatments that they like to complain of as being horrible. Its obviously better not to do that.

For some reason I don't get the impression there are many people who actually enjoy hurting themselves, usually there are other reasons why people do that...

Also I doubt people go out seeking therapies they know would be horrible just so they can complain about it being horrible because they 'like' to....honestly I think most who complain about a treatment being horrible would prefer it hadn't been I doubt its that they 'like' to complain about it being horrible.

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

Thank you for the kind sentiments.

Maybe the problem is that ... I'm searching for a solution that doesn't really exist. Perhaps I should just accept this for what it is, and let it just "be".

I know metaphorically running on a treadmill chasing a vision of "cure" just isn't getting me anywhere.

Has anyone ever just walked away from all of the "treatment", said "to Hell with it," dropped the therapists, doctors, medications and had it work?

A big part of me says "crazy is as crazy does" (a la Forrest Gump), and if I stop "acting crazy" by seeing therapists and doctors and chasing after some "cure", and just live a normal, day to day life and try to FORGET about it all, let it stay in the past, and just deal with the triggers in my own way, recognizing them for the ghosts of the past that they are, I would be so much better off? Time to take my toys and go home?

I'm feeling the same way. I'm not gonna go off meds. But it seems that therapy isn't working, I understand. Like just deal with all of it on my own. I've tried therapy, it just makes me feel worse. I'm sorry ur feeling the same way.

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by Hellion

For some reason I don't get the impression there are many people who actually enjoy hurting themselves, usually there are other reasons why people do that...

Also I doubt people go out seeking therapies they know would be horrible just so they can complain about it being horrible because they 'like' to....honestly I think most who complain about a treatment being horrible would prefer it hadn't been I doubt lits that they 'like' to complain about it being horrible.

There is a compelling symptom of PTSD called "repetition compulsion". Freud discussed it. I have experienced it myself. My compulsion is about "making a bully stand down". It is hugely satisfying. It could be retraumatising if I made an error and stood up to a bully who didn't back down. To date they all have. I think it is not wrong to tell a sufferer of PTSD to be aware that powerful unconscious motivations affect us all.

People do like to complain. Think about it. We "ventilate" it, hopefully to willing participants, and we get stress relief. We get reassured that we are OK and reasonable and it wasn't our fault. Stronger egos turn a moment of awkwardness into a moment of comedy and move on. Weaker egos take complaining more seriously. It's possible all our complaints reflect our early childhoods. Certainly our constant refrains do. My constant lament is people are dumb and don't help me. That's a gifted child whose educational needs are neglected. (they used to think enrichment was good enough). I like to complain from weak ego spots and strong ego spots. It's the weak ego spots we want to recognise and not loop in childhood stuff.

[Open Eyes]

The problem is we have an increasing societal problem that "lacks" in understanding empathy.

There are times when it is "ok" to make a joke and walk away, and there are times when it is more appropriate to sit and actually listen. It actually takes a strong ego to be able to have the courage to sit an listen and empathize with others, as being in touch with emotions can be scary to some people, actually a lot of people have that challenge and it is those people that make horrible parents/nurturers and even treatment providers.