furious at condescending healthcare pro

My allowed visits with my current T are over Dec 15. I sent a letter to the MH program asking if I could keep my current T because of trust and attachment issues. I knew it was a long shot but I felt it wouldn't hurt to ask. So, phone calls went back and forth and finally a meeting was arranged to discuss the matter.

The meeting was this past Thursday and don't think it could have gone any more wrong then it did. First, I had an advocate to help me but she couldn't make it to the meeting that day. I thought that would be okay because my T, who claimed to have my back on this, was going to be there.

So, I get to the meeting and I'm really nervous and all my triggers are firing at once. I enter the room and four people are sitting there. I was told only 3 people plus my T would be there. This threw me off right from the start. Then I sit next to my T and his boss, Lisa, is sitting next to him and the other 2 are across the table from me. Lisa is a nurse/director of the program and I don't know what her credentials are in relation to psych health.

Everything went downhill after this Lisa person opened her mouth. As soon as I looked at her and she started talking, I felt a wave of "there's something not right about this woman" shoot through me. I felt my energy begin to drain away and I became confused and disoriented. She proceeded to tell me she too had PTSD from child abuse, but I didn't sense any sincerity in her voice. I actually think she was lying to me to get me "on her side" or something. I just wasn't getting that "I've been where you are" vibe from her. When I told her it would be difficult to go through everything again with another T, she smugly said that it was better to tell my story over and over to "get used to it." She was trying to be some kind of expert on my mental health. She then asked me if I knew anything about my personality. I'm thinking, wtf is she talking about? She said she uses the Enneagram and how helpful it was for her. What that had to do with anything, I have no ****ing clue. I know about the Enneagram, but in my mind that wasn't pertinent to the meeting. Then, when I told her I had trouble concentrating and became overwhelmed at times, she started talking to the group about my meds as if I wasn't even there. She's not a psychiatrist and she was telling everyone my meds should be adjusted. By this point, I had just about had enough. When I told them my psychiatrist wanted me to have long-term counseling with my current T for the same reasons I stated, they blew that off quickly. I guess they figured he was only a psychiatrist, what did he know? I told them I searched for counseling elsewhere and could find nothing suitable and didn’t really want to start all over again with someone new. She snapped back at me, literally snapped back at me, “That’s your choice!” They claimed they had places for me to go (another lie). (Side note: when I got home that day there was a letter from some ******** gov funded counseling service they referred me to. Not only were the two locations too far from my home, but the wait time was 2 years and it only offered 10 sessions. Like I'm going to wait 2 years for 10 sessions.

No matter what I tried to say in my defense they had already (my T included) made up their minds. So, I just wanted to get out of there and away from that woman because she was really triggering me. She was being arrogant, condescending and dismissive of my feelings. She acted like she somehow knew what I needed and that within the course of that meeting she was going to discover a way to fix me so I’d be more cooperative. She didn't hear a word I was saying, it was all about how she was going to solve the problem somehow. I was a nurse and I've met health care people like her before. Their egos usually get in the way of common sense and they end up doing more harm than good. And, through all this, my T didn't say a ****ing thing. (Maybe he has a thing for this ***** or doesn't want to lose his job, who knows). He only humiliated me more by asking me in front of everyone if I was angry, like I was a 4 year old. What a ****ing asshole. Yes, I was angry but not entirely for the reasons he thought.

Yes, I was upset I wasn't going to get my way, but before the meeting I decided I would try to work out a compromise with them. But I was so taken off guard by this condescending, insensitive ***** and my T not backing me up that I couldn't think straight. By the next day I was furious, confused, overwhelmed and suicidal.

I talked to my psychiatrist first thing Friday morning and he was very supportive and comforting, thank God. He seems to totally get what's going on with me but he's not my therapist. I fired off an email to my T about how pissed off I was. He phoned and we contracted that I wouldn't harm myself and I was to see him on Monday (tomorrow). But now I don't trust him anymore. I don't want anything to do with him now, but I don't want to flounder alone in this state of mind before I can arrange for some other help.

I know people are fallible. I can usually give them the benefit of a doubt more often than not and move on. The other two seemed okay and probably had good intentions. I wasn't angry with them. I wondered if there was a possibility this woman reminded me of my mother, but she didn't look anything like my mother. Maybe it was the tone of her voice or a look. But it was more than that. I’m good at reading people and there was something not right about her. I’ve met people like her before and I haven’t been wrong with my instincts. If she was my boss, I’d watch my back for sure.

My T said he liked this woman, but if he had known or worked with mother, who was an assistant director of nursing at a major city hospital, he would have liked her too. I worked for a year in the same hospital as my mother and everyone loved that *****. If my T had known my mother he would have never believed the things I told him about her. I’m not saying this woman is a narcissistic sociopath like my mother but I wouldn’t trust her has far as I could throw.

This is, by far, my longest post ever. But I really had to write all this down.
Thanks if you made it to the end.

((SkyWhite))

This is so awful - I am flabbergasted.

I have no idea what options you have, but hope you can sort out something soon.

Take care of yourself, maybe a bit of pampering or something might be in order to get calmer and able to focus.


Bluegrey

wow~ that's ****ed up. I do hope your advocate had a reason for her failure to show. It sounds like you handled it well but I'm betting it would have been nice to have someone in your corner long enough to get a grip on the tone of the room.

Did they given you an definitive answer?

Kudos to you for fighting a failing system. I wish you luck!

My advocate told me she was giving a class that day, so she didn't do anything wrong. I should have never trusted my to T to advocate for me. He's as bad as the rest of them.

I know now that it was pretty much decided before the meeting I wasn't going to get what I wanted. The meeting was just a show to make it look like they were "helping."

I have no trust in my T now and couldn't care less if I ever see him again. They ****ed this up so badly

That sounds awful Sky, I am so sorry you have to go through this.

I hope you can find a solution soon, are you sure it is over with your therapist?

Take care of yourself

That totally sucks. I despise condescending people. Do you think it would make a difference to send a follow up letter to the committee and explain that you were being triggered by (disclose if you choose) during that meeting and felt unable to respond in a manner to discuss your concerns at that time? But now that you have had time to process it you find the committee's decision unsuitable because <insert reasons>. What is there to lose? Waiting two years for ten sessions fails to meet your needs. Putting all this on paper may be cathartic and if there is a higher up person that you can cc a copy to all the better.

Sorry you had to experience this!

It really pisses me off how some of these so-called "professionals" can botch our treatment over and over and over again then look down on us as if we're the ones who effed up!

Eff Them!



ps. I know there are good ones out there, but stuff like this makes it hard to keep trying to find them!

My advice is don't see him again. Don't psychoanalyze it either. Just remember how horrible he made you feel.

And oh, welcome to reality - it's just a business and Ts play politics too. Honestly, the best therapy is where there is no charge for the visit.

My sentiments exactly. Now onto my 3rd T and I'm about to toss in the towel. Here's how my story goes:

1) 1st T only listens, does not provide feedback
2) 2nd T - late 20 minutes, went over our session time by over 20 minutes, asked irrelevant questions, paranoid (won't leave a voice message, text, or email)
3) 3rd to be T stood me up and then calls 3 hours later as if she was drunk profusely apologizing
4) 3rd actual T is indifferent or irritated; laughed at disturbing texts I received, contemplated picking up her cell during our session

I'm sure the warning signs were there but often we only see what we want to see.

SkyWhite,

I am sorry you had that happen to you and it triggered you this way. As far as that Nurse triggering you, it doesn't have to be a person who looks like an abuser, yes, it is the way the other person can be condescending and dismissive and disrespectful instead. Also the fact this Nurse talked about herself having PTSD from childhood abuse doesn't make her any more qualified to decide what you should have for treatment. Yes, you need to tell your story in a repetitive way, but it is more involved than the way she disrespectfully described it. The way this Nurse directed this meeting also was very disrespectful because the tone from her was that you as the patient only JUST has to, and that is NOT what the long healing process with PTSD is, there is no simple "just". And any truely qualified KNOWLEDGABLE "trauma specialist" would not accept having a distressed PTSD patient wait for 2 years to get "just" 10 sessions and bingo the patient is all better. Also, it is not "just" a matter of changing your medication either, if it was that simple there would not be so much effort taking place to study this disorder and keep trying to find better medications for treatment because it is well known that the medications being used only help with "some" of the symptoms and it has consistently been strongly recommended that "therapy" for the patient is very important. Along with that any "true trauma specialist" will know the significance of the patient feeling SAFE with their treatment provider, not intimidated as was how you felt in that meeting.

I will say that what is really taking place is your health care system is failing at assuring that people who genuinely suffer from PTSD get the right treatment. I feel that this is also how the attempt made in the health care system in the U.S. is also failing to meet this genuine need, even in the state that totes they are very successful with the similar "social healthcare design" because all one has to do is interact with people who are supposed to be receiving "improved" care and they will talk about long waiting lists too. So, what this meeting was really saying is, "we don't have the resources to adequately treat you and all we can do is find a way to pretend you don't need the treatment you are saying you so desperately need." For a person who experienced childhood abuse, that will be triggering because that is what abused children get told too. Well, no one should have to go through that again as an "adult". For "anyone" who has experienced PTSD personally, they will know that is "inhumane". So much so that at least here in the States there have been laws passed and groups have been formed to "adovcate" for those who suffer from PTSD as well as other disabilities. The only problem right now is that the individuals who are working in this area have not found a way to get funding so this service is provided at no cost to a patient.

Complex post traumatic stress disorder (complex ptsd, pdsd, shell shock, nervous shock, combat fatigue), symptoms and the difference between mental illness and psychiatric injury explained

there is a link in this information Legal aspects of PTSD that covers some interesting legal situations. Within that link are other links that may lead you to information that discusses the need for treatment. Doing your own research can provide you with research information to back up the fact that you deserve treatment, something that is actually well known in the field of those who best understand the needs of a patient aside from the burearcratic crap that individuals like these throw at innocent patients when the reality is these individuals are simply, as I mentioned, making excuses because they are covering up for not having adequate help to fill a genuine need. The reality is, these individuals are adding "insult to injury" and that is not being fair to you. Therefore, while I know you are struggling, you need to throw it back in their faces. Keep as much as you can in "writing" SkyWhite because what these people are doing with you is "wrong".

While more needs to be done to help those who are disabled, there "are" efforts being made to address advocating. I found this however, for myself, I did not have the funds to access this service. I was told that an effort is being made to find a way to gain funding so this service is available to people like me. I did not know it was available, and it would have helped me with my own effort in my legal case, especially when I was deposed and ended up experiencing flashbacks and had no one there to help me. I did not even have a therapist at the time because I could not afford one. My situation is different than yours however, with myself having PTSD that presented from watching so much of what I had destroyed, my case has been ongoing for now 7 years and counting. I am typing this in a small room that is a mess with all kinds of papers and files, I am so bad now that I can't go near them as I end up disassociating. My neighbors negligence has sent me on one hell of a journey as well as it leading to my being severely challenged with this cursed thing called PTSD. I am not really fighting them either, no, they get protected by their insurance company that plays games that purposely prolong a case in an effort to make a plaintiff weary so they give up or settle for very little. It is wrong and "inhumane" considering that "yes" it works to cripple someone horribly when they struggle with PTSD. Seven years and counting? That is out right "cruelty".

I pray all the time that science will prove how I struggle, show what goes on in my brain and what this process does that is so cruel and "inhumane".

I save anything I come across that is being learned about this challenge too. I know how society "still" wants to ignore it and how wrong that is to someone who genuinely suffers. I understand how you feel because I too have come across people like that nurse you have discribed. I was in no condition to have that happen when it did either.

There are people out there trying to advocate as I mentioned, however, as always, it is a long process. This Doctor has been working on this for "years" now. I could not afford to have her or her team advocate for me sadly, however, it has been a comfort to at least know there are individuals out there trying to help those who suffer and deserve to have help.

Dr. Karin Huffer
Associate Professor King's Univ.
Counseling and Forensic Psychology
NV lic Marriage Family Therapist
ADA Title II and Title III Specialist
www.equalaccessadvocates.com
702-528-9588
NOW AVAILABLE -
If you have a disability, don't go to court without Unlocking Justice - your guide for protection under the Americans with Disabilities Act Amendments Act (ADAAA) at www.equalaccessadvocates.com

Thanks so much all of you for your support. I can't tell you how helpful it has been.

You know what hurts the most, I don't think even one of them will take any responsibility for my being upset because I’m just a “nut case." Their egos will tell them that I'm to blame for it going so badly. They’ll blame my reaction on my mental illness and walk away smugly saying they tried to help and then criticize me for being “unreasonable.” I’m very familiar with this tactic used by mental health professionals. They use our mental illness against us to not take responsibility for being insensitive.

I was in a room full of inflated egos. I was angry because I felt intimidated and unheard and that no one there took into consideration that I was getting severely triggered. My T could have at least taken me out of the room for a moment to calm me down, not make fun of the fact that I was angry. I’ve lost faith in everything and everybody, especially myself. I feel so alone in all of this. I don’t know if I can ever trust another therapist now and don’t know where to turn or who to turn to. There’s no one who can help me.

Oh yes, I know this feeling so well myself and I was in no condition to go through what I went through either. I have had therapy for bad therapy too as well as how I was so alone in the room with strangers in my deposition, one being my own lawyer who was declining into dementia and made my deposition "all about him" that embarassed and triggered the hell out of me. I don't know how I even made it home after experiencing that, it was horrible.

I know how you feel about how "none" of these people will take responsiblity either, I have experienced that myself and the more I got to understand PTSD, the more I worked through it and learned about it the more angry I got about how poorly I had been treated. However, I gave you the added information just so you know that there "are" people out there that are aware of this and have been trying to fight for those who are challenged and treated unfairly.

Do "not" lose faith in yourself though, and I know that is hard when one suffers from PTSD. All you were really dealing with is the bureaucracy of individuals who's hands are tied because they can't "provide" for the genuine need and "they know it". All they can do is have these meetings and find a way to at least "pretend" to hear a need, and as much as you don't like it? Well, if these people really "know" the facts, they don't like it either, but are "stuck" in a job in a system that is "inadequate" at having the true capacity to actually address a genuine "need". This is what these people have to do when there is a waiting list of 200 who have the same needs you do and they don't have the capacity to facilitate that need. Actually, this is what takes place in my country too, and in a big way recently with the VA hospitals that were making patients "wait" because they could not fill the need. Now they say they are working on resolving this big issue, however, they are also talking about the large numbers of doctors and other professionals they will need to hire to handle this huge need. Well, these numbers are pretty large, who knows if there are even "real people" that are qualified out there to even fill this need.

While I know you are "angry" and have a genuine need, you need to also know that there "is" a real problem with having the kind of therapists that you want that can help you and treat you with the therapy you genuinely deserve to have. This meeting you have sat in would not even take place "if" the system was set up to where there really was the adequate resources to address the need you have that is "genuine". Right now in the system your country offers, filling that genuine need is simply not "sustainable" and that is exactly what is going to happen in the U.S. too, and already is in the state of Mass. because I have already come across people that get the same kind of run around and long waiting lists.

So, in that, don't ever blame yourself for an inadequacy that is really the inadequacy of others.

((Hugs))
OE

Saw my T yesterday. He said he should have got a better handle on things at the meeting then he did. He agreed it did not go well. But he said I brought up some excellent points through all of this and I made people take notice. I told him I wasn't just thinking of myself here. I was thinking how so many people with mental illness don't have a voice. Maybe it was clumsy cry for help but at least I made it. I am extremely depressed and triggered by all of this because I have only two more visits left with him. I also feel ashamed for causing such a fuss.

My T assured me that he is not going to the moon or anywhere else. As long as he's at my clinic I think I'll be able to see him, but not with any long term therapy because the program there isn't set up for it. But he is officially my primary care counselor.

My abandonment issues are extremely severe. The emotional pain right now is pretty much unbearable. Saturday was so bad I started cutting again. I haven't done that since I was 13. It was either that or beat my head against the wall.

I put my name on a wait list for counseling at a women's health clinic. It's low fee and long term but I don't know if I'll trust another T. My T and I talked about transference with a woman counselor because of my mom's severe abuse towards me. I thought of that but what else am I going to do now. I have to see someone. I can't do this alone.

((SkyWhite)), don't ever feel ashamed for causing a fuss. That is a symptom of PTSD too.
What you are asking for is not anything wrong or unreasonable at all. And actually, your T is validating that for you, however, he is avoiding telling you that you deserve to get the help you need but the system itself is inadequate when it comes to providing/addressing that genuine need. He actually said a lot about how unprepared he was, yet, he also knows that he has to be careful not to upset the applecart too, because the bottom line is he knows the system in place is underfunded and understaffed and he can do so little about that "fact".

My own therapist explained to me the difference in what I needed and deserved and what is now available in our system too. He said that our system is very inadequate/broken really and that to provide what I needed and really deserved is too expensive to offer now. The facilities that used to exist were unable to sustain and have long been closed down. Where I went, the psych ward only tries to get patients under control with medications and the goal is to get them out as soon as possible as they really are not equipped for any long term caring treatment as I had needed and requested. What my therapist also told me is that the staff in these psych wards have been ill informed in identifying trauma patients and an effort has been underway in training these various individuals/staff members in how to recognize the signs of a trauma patient to avoid traumatizing them even further as was the case with me.

Unfortunately the places that offer the kind of services you want are there but are also very expensive. When I searched the net to find a "trauma specialist" that offered therapy, the cost of going to one of these specialized groups was astronimical, nothing I could afford at all. I also looked for a support group and there were none and the only thing I found was this site. It took me a while but I finally found the therapist I have now, he was not on the net when I searched, he really did not need that as he was filled up just from word of mouth alone. I found him through word of mouth and by that time I was not doing well at all. Well, had I depended on a "system"? I would have never gotten the help I needed. And honestly, if you talk to people that work in the system, away from the system on the cuff, then you will learn just how frustrated these people "are" about the inadequacies of the system. You will not hear that while you are "in" the system itself though as these individuals would lose their jobs. So, the therapist you are seeing has to function within the guidelines of the system which is move patients along as quickly as possible as that is all that can be done as there are simply not enough funds to staff the system to offer the kind of care that is needed. While you are having your hour with this therapist, there is a long list of others waiting for your block of time.

So before you do "any" self blaming, you need to realize how your needs are genuine and deserving, the bottom line is that of "inadequacy" of addressing your needs, not your fault.

Thanks OpenEyes. My T was very upfront about the inadequate system right from the start. But he didn't see any reason why I shouldn't try to bring to light the problems from a patient's perspective. He said I got peoples' attention. So maybe it wasn't a complete loss. One problem was people in my area not having access to a peer support group. The organization that offers this is way downtown, and people in the burbs don't want to go downtown after dark with no parking anywhere. He said he's going to arrange with the org that groups be held at his clinic for people in the area. I'm totally game for that because I like those groups. I told him I would even be a peer volunteer for that.

He was really concerned about how stressful all this was for me and how triggering, so I assured him I wouldn't be emailing complaints anymore. He's a good T. He's gone way beyond his limits to provide me with the best care and attention he could within the program's limitations. TBH, I'm not used to someone caring so much about me. And my pdoc is a gem too. I'm very lucky and maybe I'm worth caring about

This was a pretty bad ***** storm for me and I guess it'll never be over; there'll be others. My hubby said to take it a day at a time. I told him right now I have to take it an hour at a time.

Well, I am glad to hear he was up front with you from the start. PTSD is hard enough, never mind being further confused by an inadequate system.

Your husband is right and it's good that he is being supportive even though "yes" when a trigger takes place often it is getting through it an hour at a time to a moment at a time.
Oh, I have been there so I know how hard it can be. I think it's great that you stood up for yourself. You do that for others too you know, others who are too afraid, but also deserve the support when they are really struggling. PTSD can be crippling, it takes time to gain on it, lots of patience and support is a "must have".

I decided to send a cordial email thanking the people at the meeting for their time and apologizing for not working with them on this. I guess I'm embarrassed and guilty about how bad things went although it's not like I was cussing everyone out and trashing the place. They were making a clumsy attempt at helping me, but I thought I'd cut them a little slack give them benefit of the doubt.

Maybe I should have just let it go, but this gives me closure. And it was sincere.

((SkyWhite)),

You were not wrong in what you did though. You need help, it's not wrong to defend that need. You need to be "ok" with being brave "for yourself" and not give in to the poor quality of help out there.

If you are sending an email that is appologizing, what is the closure for you?

You said you did not cuss at everyone or create a big scene, even though inside you were being triggered (which by the way was a lot for you to keep control over, so good for you). All you were doing is fighting for yourself, make sure you don't feel guilty for that. You are trying and you "want help" to heal, nothing wrong with that. Sometimes PTSD can bring on regrets that one has to learn not to listen to because it's the ptsd talking and not anything "you" are doing wrong. I have had to deal with that a lot myself, and I catch myself and remind myself I should not be feeding into that negative ptsd symptom.

That is one of the reason's I talk about the "one day at a time", because I have learned that I did have a lot of triggers and each time I was triggered I had to work through it, often over and over and literally one day at a time even a moment at a time when it was bad, but, I began to notice I was improving "very slow and gradually" but improving just the same.

Honestly, people even professionals can't really appreiciate how much work it really is, not if they have not experienced what it is like first hand.

My pdoc told me the same thing today. Don't feel guilty for trying. Don't be ashamed of asking for the help I need. But I'm conditioned to feel shame for having any kind of need or emotion. I was ashamed of getting angry. So I apologized. That's one of the many ways cptsd hurts me and my relationships. I still don't feel I have a right to ask for what I need or want. I still deep down believe that everyone else is more important than me, everyone else's needs come before mine. How do I get rid of such engrained conditioning?

I don't mind thanking them. I think they wanted to help but their hands were tied. These people know the system sucks, but they have to work with the boundaries they're given whether they like it or not. They don't make the rules.

((SkyWhite)),

The first thing you need to do is recognize your challenged areas. You are doing that, "good". Yes, some of these challenges come from long ago deep conditioning, not your fault. You also need to understand where it comes from as well as slowly developing a part of yourself that many call the "wise mind". That is a part of you that is going to work on healing, healing as though you would help someone else with this same challenge that you know doesn't deserve to feel that way about themself.

I can have that challenge myself, that comes from what I experienced with my older brother. My older brother was treated really badly from everyone, the bus to school, in school, at home. I felt bad for him, knew it was not right and began putting his needs above mine. My T told me that I took on the role a parent should have done. I had never really thought about it that way. All I saw is he had no one so I did my best to help him.

Often children learn that when a parent is not there to take care of whatever is wrong. But, a parent can also send that message to a child when the parent doesn't know how to be a parent and in ways treats the child as a burden.

When you get this feeling you need to step back and think about "you" and "your needs" and keep validating your own needs. It takes time and you need to be patient with yourself. You are going to have to practice "self care" and relearn, it doesn't happen overnight.

I have this very strong protective part of me when it comes to a person or people picking on others. It developed from seeing my brother picked on horribly day after day on that bus and in school, everywhere and seeing the pain in his face. People were relentless would not stop. I had not realized how much that got engrained in me tbh. It became obvious when the PTSD developed and got strong.

Not everything bad that we experience means we are bad either. Your caring about others is not bad, but you have to learn to "care" about yourself too. You did really good going to that meeting and fighting for yourself, now, you have to learn to be ok with that and not think it was wrong. So, you have to "practice" at doing these things for yourself that you need and then when you doubt like this, stop yourself and make sure you remind yourself, that was the old me, now I am going to change that and be ok with it.

One of the things I noticed with this PTSD is how I kept saying "I am sorry" all the time.
First I had to notice I did that when I struggled, then I had to keep telling myself in my mind (talk to myself) and say I don't need to be sorry, I really "am" struggling and it's ok to struggle and work on healing.

You have to pay attention to your self talk and especially when you talk down to yourself too. Keep acknowledging that you do it, and also tell yourself you are wrong to think that way and say "I am healing, I deserve to heal and take time for myself to do that healing".

You felt the urge to appologize to these people. Well, that is the old you, you need to recognize that and say to yourself, it's ok that I asked for help and try to stop your old habit of "appologizing".

Is it a lot of work? Yes, but you need to do this because the old way of thinking and feeling you are wrong to need is unhealthy. It takes time to change something so automatic like that, but it can be done. Lots of repeating to yourself, catching yourself and changing your inner message to yourself.

Hey, sometimes one can slip, that's ok too, just acknowledge it, don't beat yourself up if you slip and keep the positive messages going.