PTSD inho is not a mental illness

(bchlyn ))
please know i care
muffy

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happysappy said:
Anyone can get PTSD, no matter how mentally healthy they are or not. or what kind of past they have or not have.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">That is how I view it too. I have PTSD and it is indeed very real. But I am mentally healthy too. Orange_Blossom, I liked what you shared about Psychiatric Injury.

DesertNurse, I tend to have a similar view as you about the biochemical and physiological nature of PTSD, depression, anxiety, etc. Stressful and traumatic events can provoke long-lasting changes in our biochemistry. These responses are natural and in many instances adaptive and that is why they are with mankind today--they have been evolutionarily selected for over thousands of years. Understanding this helped me to come to terms with my own depression (although not everyone would take the same meaning and comfort as I did). For example, in stressful situations, the production of certain molecules is stimulated that result in depression. Some of these molecules are very long lived and can persist in the body for weeks and months (e.g. dynorphins). This is a natural and "healthy" response to stress, even though it is not a fun experience for the person. I guess my understanding of pharmacology, evolution, and biochemistry is partly what leads me to view myself as mentally healthy rather than mentally ill. If a doctor told me I was mentally ill, I would certainly challenge him or explain some of the biochemistry. I did have a long discussion once with my therapist about the adaptive value of depression and he was very interested, as he had not viewed it that way before. He was able to relate it to some of his own experiences with clients and together we came to a richer understanding.

pachyderm:

i do agree to an extent that young mind cannot handle the stresses of certain things. HOWEVER - having been raised in a truely violent alcoholic environment as a youth i can often remember with much more detail the bad things than the good things.

the example i was trying to paint is this: more often than not people CHOOSE to remember certain things. it often comes with much therapy and discussion that the actual details are CHOSEN to be remembered. regarding bad events related to traumatic stress - its much easier to remember those things than what color underwear i had on three days ago.

sunrise:

i do also believe in the effects stress can play on the body and how chemicals can make change. i DO believe that personal change can be made though to correct SOME things - not all of them. healthy living is definately a part of forming healthy thoughts. self recognition of personal accomplishment has been PROVEN time and time again to be a remedy against depression and future mental breaks.

doing what you love as a profession has been proven to add YEARS to your life as well as regular exercise and eating correctly. remember what goes in to your mind and body will produce something equal in return. its not rocket science.

my battle with PTSD is not a daily one... but i have noticed how much more easily i can be aggravated with certain situations. i don't get violent, but i do get upset. i have battled with with regular exercise and eating correctly. those things make huge differences in my attitude. i run half marathons and 5-10k races when i can. the stress of competition has more than filled the holes that PTSD left. its a very constructive outlet for myself.

i'm not saying that my solutions are the end-all be-all of PTSD. just thougth i would share.

Thanks for sharing, desertnurse. I definitely believe in healthy living. Diet, exercise, sleep etc. can all make a huge difference in our health (and can affect our biochemistry too). One of the things that helped me tremendously with my depression was working hard to conquer my sleep problems. I believe a person's attitude and life outlook can also play a role in altering their biochemistry (for the better and for the worse). Not everything can work for everyone, and a lot of things can help a little. Sometimes, it can all add up to help a lot. One of the biggest helps for me with depression and PTSD has been psychotherapy. We have worked a lot on healing wounds and processing trauma. We are now moving into a sort of phase that is very forward looking, where I identify my career, relationship, artistic, spiritual, etc. goals and how I will work toward them. Having something to look forward to in life is very helpful to me. Hope that my life could be better has helped so much. It probably sounds trivial, but I think regaining hope is what has helped me the most.

<font color="green"> My therapist has a coffee mug and a sign that say, 'Healthy people ask for help.' I like that. </font>

One way all of this has been put to me is like this: If a person had the flu, you could respond to that by calling them ill. Which in short is an illness. Not all illnesses are long term, just like the above case, flu isn't forever. When it comes to mental illness I have found that sometimes it helps to look at it in a different way by looking at things society accepts more readily. Just because you have a mental illness/ mental health issues/ Mental dissorders what be it, doesn't make you a bad person. Just like if a person had, like I mentioned something like the flu, then the person would not be looked down upon as someone who is bad. But really I think the problem lies with how society looks at the terms "mental illness." It is not something that is placed there to put you out to be "bad" as some people think. Really I don't think the problem lies with the doctors and therapists and other mental health professionals, I think it's more about society. I think one thing we, as a society, need to work on is building an awareness. And if you think of a person having mental illness as being "bad", would a person with say asthma be "bad?" I guess really the problem, like I says lies with ignorance of society, yet the awareness is building. But an illness doesn't mean anyone is bad. Even if you dont' consider yourself to mentally ill, yet you think someone else is, it's really judging, when in fact, you also may have problems, who's to say what is worse? No one.

Jennifer

what is the definition of mental illness?

Hi Minime, I have read some of your other posts on other boards here and read about what you wrote about your mom. Hope you don't mind me asking any questions, just thought it might help you with this issue. Do you think your concerns on this thread are related to not wanting to be anything like your mom?

Sannah....Are you speaking to mimime or jennifer?

Lenny

Minime....

we are mentally healthy at the moment, but when the PTSD kicks in the illness takes over, we have seen " people who say they are fine, in reality they need to see a pdoc more than we do"
never be a shamed of your dx, we are the most compassionate ppl around
Angie

Sannah Yah I dont want to be like my mom at all. I also dont want to feel like there is something wrong with me that needs to be fixed. That makes me feel like whatever i feel is some sort of pathology and it needs to be fixed. I just want to be me. I am who I am and my reactions are fine, I need to let them pass and not fight them. I get the feeling people are angry that I brought this up. Im not saying being mentally ill is something to be ashamed of but also the word or phrase mentally ill means that your brain is not well. I think telling people who have had trauma that they are ill is not helpful. I think I am pretty well considering everything that happened to me. My sister had a "psychotic break" friday and when I saw her in the back of the cop car it was clear she was "ill" I dont know what Im trying to say. I dont know, I just am afraid that your right that i am the same as my mom. Yuck,

((MINIME)))</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
dont want to feel like there is something wrong with me that needs to be fixed.

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It's my supposition that this is the crux of your original post and the theme of the thread. It isn't a good feeling to have, for sure.

But, you cannot merely wish away the truth of PTSD and it's effects upon your life, anyone's life, everyone's life. Where you are is part of the healing process, imo. If you are not able to hear that yes, PTSD is a disorder of mental unwellness, then you aren't ready to hear it, that's all. But at some point in therapy you will hear it, and not necessarily embrace it but "allow" it. Then, as healing progresses you will work through it, much as anyone with an incurable illness.

It's ok to not want to call it a mental illness, imo. But you simply cannot deny the horrible and sometimes crazy feelings it causes, and still heal. Accept it, blame the aberrant behavior on the disorder, learn to counter what you can and find the best life you can in spite of it.

your probably right sky. To admit that there is a "mental illness" to me feels like all the work I did to just live wasnt good enough. That I was damaged in ways that I cant simply think my way through. Its just not fair and it makes me mad. I am a thinker and I have the soul of a poet (not a depressing one just a dreamer who sees music and lyrics and love and comedy in things) and I have this hinderence that i have to learn to accept mental illness or not, its there and it causes great suffering. It also though has caused me to meet some people in my life i wouldnt not want to know so who knows.

I think the way the term "mental illness" is used makes it seem something just about beyond understanding, something that is nearly fatal and has to be treated forever by specially gifted people who can grasp things that the ordinary mortal cannot. I think that is false and is only used because those 'specially gifted people' are off the track and it is THEY who do not understand that it is something rather easily understood by people who do not have blinders on. Namely, it is an adaptation (many kinds of adaptation) to a crazy-making situation, an adaptation adopted by a being who is small and inexperienced just by the nature of being small and new in the world.

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MINIME said:
I just am afraid that your right that i am the same as my mom.

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Hi Minime, I don't think that you are like your mom at all. For one thing you are seeking help, one thing that I don't think that your mom did. I didn't think that you are like your mom at all anyways! I just wanted to mention this because you seem to be bothered by this "mental illness" issue and if you are anything like me, the more that I understand what is behind my concerns, the easier they are to deal with.

Sannah that cam out wrong i meant to say I am afraid i am like my mom. I kniow u wernt saying i was like her. Yucky,

When I was coming into adulthood I swore I would never be like my mother, never treat people as she treated us. Now sometimes I feel just the same as she must have. I think it is understandable, because I am as frustrated with life and the lack of help in it as she must have been. Hard to accept that some of the people that we hated in fact were just frightened and unable to cope with their lives, and that is why they treated us the way they did. It happens. Doesn't help to know that sometimes, doesn't make it easier to accept. Or does it?

At least it is possible to have more insight than they did, and thus not to act the same way as they did...?

My ideas:

"Mental illness" is caused by thought censorship, not by "chemical imbalances in the brain". Chemical imbalances or something along those lines may arise and get established and maintained because of the original and continuing suppression of thoughts and feelings, which are themselves natural and completely without "value". "Value" is only assigned later by society, parents, whatever (and gets internalized). In this and other ways the system can get overwhelmed by contradictory demands. However else does one understand how obsessive-compulsive disorders get established, or manic-depressive instability develops, or "borderline personality disorders" or the confusion of thought in "schizophrenia" or the separation into alters? How does the split between "good" parts and "bad" parts of a person get started? Originally they are just parts, and get separated if and only if approval/disapproval gets assigned (internally) to them. Healthy outcomes arise only if there is a "constructive" management of the "parts" which conflict with the demands of living with other people, a management which allows the feelings or the parts to remain conscious even when their expression has to be modulated.

As for medications, I think I can see how they could be useful adjuncts to a real therapy, but not replacements for it, as seems often to be implied by drug company promotions, and accepted as such by many practitioners.

These are my present conclusions, FWIW.

A discussion with Fuzzybear (Thanks!) prompts me to add:

This business is forcing me to refine my ideas on what causes mental illness! It can be due either to conflict with parents who try to enforce thought control, or by events such as physical/sexual abuse, either of which overwhelms a system which is required to attempt to cope with contradictory demands: the need to express and recognize one's own thoughts and feelings, and the need to gain approval of, and believe in the goodness of, caretakers. I think this could explain both "ordinary" thought censorship and more extreme cases of abuse so terrifying that the young person's system cannot bear it without splitting or having other maladaptive adjustments to the stress. It could even explain what can happen with stresses of non-psychological origin too threatening for a young person's system to adapt to -- stresses such as repeated severe physical illnesses or things like surgeries when the person can develop no explanation for why they are happening.

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pachyderm said:
Hard to accept that some of the people that we hated in fact were just frightened and unable to cope with their lives, and that is why they treated us the way they did. It happens. Doesn't help to know that sometimes, doesn't make it easier to accept. Or does it?

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I think that it makes it easier to accept and to forgive.....
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pachyderm said:
"Mental illness" is caused by thought censorship, not by "chemical imbalances in the brain". Chemical imbalances or something along those lines may arise and get established and maintained because of the original and continuing suppression of thoughts and feelings, which are themselves natural and completely without "value". "Value" is only assigned later by society, parents, whatever (and gets internalized). In this and other ways the system can get overwhelmed by contradictory demands. .

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I agree!

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pachyderm said:
refine my ideas on what causes mental illness!

It can be due either to conflict with parents who try to enforce thought control, or by events such as physical/sexual abuse,

either of which overwhelms a system which is required to attempt to cope with contradictory demands: the need to express and recognize one's own thoughts and feelings, and the need to gain approval of, and believe in the goodness of, caretakers.

so terrifying that the young person's system cannot bear it without splitting or having other maladaptive adjustments to the stress.

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Agree again!

> I agree!

Sannah must be very wise...

More words from me:

What is a "dynamic" system? It is a system which can respond to changes in its environment. Dynamic systems have a range where they can respond to changes and return to a stable state when a stress is removed. But any dynamic system can be overloaded. When it is overloaded, a permanent or semi-permanent change takes place, and the system cannot return by itself to stable operation. A system that has been permanently altered will probably try to return to a stable condition, but it cannot do so on its own. It becomes unstable, or reaches a position of semi-stability in which it does not operate normally.

In humans people write about the "limbic" system, which has something to do with the regulation of emotions. It seems that the details of what parts of the brain form the limbic system and exactly what it does are not well known at this time. But if this system is stressed beyond its capacity to cope, it becomes unstable too. The disturbed system may eventually establish a condition of partial stability, trying to return to normal stability, but cannot do so without aid. The instabilities display themselves in the form, for instance in the case of manic-depressive (bipolar) illness, as a continual swing between the extremes of mania and depression. Other "mood disorders" such as obsessive or personality disorders show similar or related instabilities of emotion or mood and thought. Some remain more or less permanently in one extreme or another -- heightened anxiety, or depression, for instance. I think schizophrenia is one of these extreme states.

This is my picture of "mental illness" as a result of emotional stresses which overwhelm a system's ability to cope. A semi-permanent change takes place in which the system cannot return to normal functioning on its own. The system tries to return to health but has a very hard time doing so because of the changes which the original stresses have produced. Most often assistance is required, in the form of therapies or assisted self-help which promote learning new coping skills. The success of any such therapies or self-re-education will depend on how well the therapies incorporate accurate understanding of the nature of the dis-eases and how to go about reversing the damage. Poor understanding will lead to continued distress (have you noticed?) as the system attempts to heal but is frustrated in its attempts.

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pachyderm said:
Most often assistance is required, in the form of therapies or assisted self-help which promote learning new coping skills.

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Hi Pachy, I don't think that a person is healed all the way if they are still using coping skills. Coping skills are good to use on your way to getting better, however. I agree with a lot of what you said but I see it as development. We are all supposed to be supported in our development (while we are children) and everyone will need different helps and supports because we are all unique. If no one is paying attention to what we need while we are developing there will be dysfunctional development. (Or if others are actively disturbing our development with abuse.) We get better when we examine what went wrong with our development, throw out the bad development and replace it with healthy development.