More on therapeutic induced attachment

Yes, this is a good foundation. At this point do you feel that you help them but won't allow them close to help you??????

Oh, sunrise - I really have no clue if I'm attached yet or not! But thanks for the response - that's interesting that just because you were attached, that didn't equal you being an open book emotionally.

I do have to skip a session coming up because of travel plans - when I discussed that with my T, and I realized I couldn't reschedule but would have to skip the entire week, I was a little sad. So maybe I am attached!

OK Sunrise... What makes the stakes higher? For me...I can handle rejection from most people really well. I have no need to be liked by or friends with everybody. HOWEVER, people who I like, respect, or who can affect my income :-)...I want them to like, respect, and not reject me. Does this mean I am attached to my university president :-) I think this is a different type of job security attachment.

Now, seriously...One think that I clearly felt and even directly stated in my email communication with my T last week was my concern about my therapy file. Not so much what she has written in it but more about what I'VE put in it. What the images I've shared with her convey about my inner world and who I am. Now when I wrote this I was obviously worried about how what I am now sharing with her might her opinion of me. If I'm not attached to her and really see her as just a warm body to vent to, someone how I don't have to kiss up to to stay employed...then, why do I care what she thinks about who I really am? Why is it important that she finds me acceptable? Also, after having just a few sessions with her I didn't want her to know to find out about my past and the type of kid I was. Why? Her opinion mattered to me when others who've I known a lot longer...don't.

Yes.

A couple of weeks ago after a late night out with friends my one friend came right out and asked me about my childhood and if I had been abused. Now we've had deep conversations, but BOOM I shut right down and just like during therapy a big knot formed in my throat and that was it. My end of the conversation was over and my friend was left talking to wall. I hindsight, I don't know why I withdrew inward.This friend has always accepted me and I don't think there would anything from my past that if she knew about would ultimately end or dramatically change our friendship. I can honestly say...I really don't care about what she was like or the things she did or had done to her as a child. How, will I listen to her tell me if she wanted to? Yes. And I did listen to what she was saying about her childhood.I just refused to make it a two-way share.

I don't mind knowing details about people, but I don't need to know them it unless she wants me too. I think my friend is the same way. I think she just asked me about it, to let me know that she understood stuff and I could talk to her about it. But... Instead of thanking her for going there, I just shutdown and when home to bed. --- I'm kind of a jerk

Now to my credit, I was a bit smash at the time this conversation occurred and well I am NOT a rambling drunk.

I don't think you are a jerk. You did this for a reason. You understanding why would be really helpful to you.........

I used to be really guarded. I did this because of shame. I can see people doing it for other reasons though, like it would make them vulnerable.

((((((chaotic))))))

I have been thinking a lot about attachment (as it seems we do on this board) and thinking about my attachment to my new T vs my old T and what attachment means in general to me and the definition of it.

I looked it up and the definition I found was something like attachment is "having an affection for" something/someone (synonyms included: fondness, devotion, liking, etc..) This is interesting because as maybe we all experience, the amount of "affection" (ie attachment) we have for all people varies as their attachment to us varies, as do the reasons we are attached to others. This then made me think about how I feel about my T's separately. I really liked my old T, had a lot of affection for her, and enjoyed our relationship/got a lot out of it. BUT- there was something about her interactions that created a lot of confusion and frustration around my feelings of attachment to her. Mostly, I think that she rejected my strong attachment, sometimes in words and sometimes in actions, leaving me feeling like my attachment to her was a BAD thing and that I was wrong for having any feelings about her other than simple positive regard and appreciation for the helping relationship.

My new T has already been completely different, which has made a difference to me and my openness immeadiately. I am quite attached to her, probably because we had a history before I started individual sessions, and have already spoken openly about this and how it feels to me. What has made the difference to me is that I don't feel like I just get lip service from my new T regarding this. I don't feel like she says what she needs to then I get a feeling from her of it being untrue. I feel like she genuinely accepts and sees value in the attachment and takes it very seriously that it is there. That she does not try to change it or seek for me to change it. This leads to me feeling more safe with the attachment that I feel- subsequently I do not find myself rejecting my Self as much, which is a place where I struggle and found got triggered in my old T's rejection of my feelings toward her.

Thinking through all of this helps me because I can translate what I am learning about attachment and how I relate to others into my other current relationships. I struggle with my openness, vulnerability and attachment to others quite a lot. But I am learning how to navigate how to feel safe and when I get signals that tell me another person is not safe. My MO before was to "act as if" all people were not safe (not let them in, not be vulnerable) thereby protecting myself from all harm.

I like that you wrote this...It speaks to the continuum of the relationships and the attachment. Maybe it is when you have more on the line (things to gain or lose from a relationship) that the "attachment" causes more distress. IDK if that is true for you...but seems to be true for me.

Take care, Searching

A-ha! This makes SOOOO much sense to me. It puts something into words that I guess I've felt, but never named. The fact that T accepts my attachment so readily, and sees the value in it, and reciprocates by being loving and caring towards me gives me such a sense of safety. And I DO think I am starting to value my Self more, because he values me so much.

I wonder if that is part of the difference between a secure and an insecure attachment in the therapy relationship?? The T's attitude towards the attachment?? I think that if T was somehow resisting my attachment, it would make things so hard....

I think it is essential to secure attachment that the person you are attaching to be accepting of it. If they don't want you attached and communicate that to you, then it puts you in the position of always wondering if they care; if they will reject you; if you only do things right, maybe they will accept your connection. That would be very insecure, that would be hell. (That was my marriage.) So the person's acceptance of attachment is essential, I think, but there are other components to a secure relationship also.

I like this statement too.

I am always thinking that my T is going to critize or tell me that am wrong or need to change. But she never really does. Unfortunately I still struggle with accepting my SELF.

Regarding Sunrise's comments I'm not sure whether my T would accept or resist attachment? I guess she kind of has accepted it so far. I guess you don't tell someone, "I'm safe talk to me, email me if it helps you if you don't want them to connect with you. IDK..

I think that attachment has both biological and psychological elements to it. Whenever it happens to us, it seems we tend to repeat the same patterns learned when we first attached to our parents. Part of infant attachment to caretaker is necessary and instinctive, I think. There is no way a baby could survive without his/her caretaker so they need that attachment to survive. I wonder if the same type of thing happens sometimes in our adult relationships with others...even outside of the therapy room. Separation distress (which is exactly what I went through when leaving therapy) is nature's way of getting the infant back to their caretaker. I was so pathetic at one point during grief that I would've held a rock from T's driveway in order to feel that connection. It felt like a need...as if I wouldn't survive without him. Of course I did, but I think maybe that is the mechanism in place that makes us yearn to contact when separated from the attachment figure. I'm still kind of amazed when I recall the actual physical sensation that I felt when separating from T. It felt gravitational in a way and very, very strong. A tugging, pulling sensation in my chest/heart area...nature trying to put me back with T. It's kind of fascinating really.

I felt the same way when I left my sessions. Sometimes I had to call my T from the car when I was only 1 block away. I felt like she was a magnet, and I was in her gravitational field. It was SO strong! I don't quite understand it either.

There was a movie, probably Steven Spielberg but I'm blocking out on the title, where the people felt this compulsion to build this stuff with clay or dirt. They were running around kind of obsessed, and they all met at the place where the UFO or whatever it was appeared. I have images of that movie, weird as it seems, when I think about my compulsion to be with my T. I even told my T that I was attracted to her like a magnet. It's very powerful. I am a little resentful of my T calling it a "neurotic attachment" when maybe it was just "normal" attachment, at least in the first years of therapy.

What WAS that movie, anyway?

Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

It was Richard Dreyfus who built the flat top mountain out of clay and mud in the yard of his home. He went kind of crazy with it and all his neighbors in suburbia gathered at a safe distance, looking on, whispering to their companions about this man and his strange behavior. Great scene!

I would be uncomfortable with the word neurotic as well. I would use the word "intense". Intense is a good word. More positive.

Thanks, sunrise! I just couldn't think of the title. That scene is etched on my mind, the intensity and the compulsion of it.

Another one is the play, Equis,sp.? about a boy and his horse. Sorry if I'm getting off subject, but it's the power of the T-attachment that strikes me as so unique.

Berhers: My T is blunt, but I love her anyway. I can't believe I wrote "love." No time to start my own thread, apologies if I'm hijacking this. I'm off the computer now anyways.

I feel that with T. I've told him that I feel like there is a rope connecting my heart to his....I can feel it so strongly in session.

He's on vacation. I know he's far far away and I miss him

The gravitational pull that Bether mentioned... I actually felt something like this when I observed an instructor's treatment another person the other week. Although I was not the one being treated I could feel my inner child being pulled right out of my chest. I had to keep shaking my head and telling myself, "hey... you're not the one being treated here." It was the wildest thing I have ever experienced.

I don't feel this kind of pull towards my therapist though. Although it was neat to experience, it scared me a lot. I don't think I could handle actually being the person focused on.

(((((treehouse)))))

For me it has been true. And I only would have been able to discern the difference because of my past experience with my T and my new experience with my new T. My new T is so accepting of the attachment, the needfulness. She doesn't have an undercurrent of rejection. My old T *said* it was okay to contact her and to need her. But when the "rubber met the road" in small ways she would do things that in turn caused me to feel really bad about wanting or needing extra support. An example of this would be that my old T said I could call any time. However, when I would call if I needed to she would sound annoyed. It led to so much conflict for me because I felt like she was saying one thing but the under message was completely different. I also don't call a lot- so the impression I got from her was "why can't you handle this on your own?!?" My attachment to her was strong, I think because of the nature of the work. But it was very insecure because of this conflicting message stuff.

My new T is so different. When she says I can call I know she means it. It's not just something she says but in her actions too. This congruency in actions/words has led be to doubt myself less and be more open in a shorter period of time (I also got some time to check her out doing the couple's work for a bit).

I agree with this so much! It does make it hard and I think that it is damaging to the client too. But that is just my opinion.

(((((bether)))))

I think this is true...I also wonder if the therapeutic "attachment" can be more true and authentic and more basic? Like the most pure and basic of the attachment because it doesn't have all the competing needs of the parent and family in the relationship? Just throwing out a curiosity...Your old T sounds like he was pretty amazing...

(((((chaotic)))))


I can totally relate to this chaotic. That fear of criticism can be so strong for me too...

To me it seems as if your T is going with the "attachment" in your relationship at your pace, letting you set the timeline. This is probably really good because if she were either too forceful or if you felt that she rejected you needing your own pace you would sense this and run for the hills. From what you write here at PC she seems very well matched to you.

(((((rainbow)))))

The feeling can be soooo strong! I do think that it can be like that all consuming all encompassing attachment of infancy (in some ways). Just think of how infants are with their mothers, that is their whole world.

Of course, I am also not saying that the only way to benefit from therapy is to have intense attachment either. I think each individual experiences it differently and that is what is so facinating about the whole thing.

I just want to second this. I felt sad reading that your T said this rainbow.


((((((treehouse))))))

Searching I think your comment about my T just going with whatever level of attach I set is true. I've noted before that I think my T allowing me to create and even transform my therapeutic enirvonment as I go. At first I needed a firm, sterile all business T, that is kind of what she gave me. Now I can accept more and she is giving more.

That's interesting, chaotic. I guess they are somewhat changeable and do adapt to what the client signals they want and can tolerate. I know sometimes when my H and I have had couples sessions, my T initially began in a very businesslike, problem-solving mode. I believe he did this to put my H at ease. He has told me men are often more comfortable with this sort of approach. Since I knew my T better, and could tolerate much from him, he accommodated more to my H with his manner and approach, so as not to spook him.

However, sometimes at my legal meetings, T will say a very therapist-like thing, that is not businesslike at all, and I think the lawyers are the ones who are caught a little off balance by that. I actually love that. Go, T!

Sunrise, yes.. I don't see this change as being fake either. My T still seems like the same professional person I started with, it just seems like there is a different level to it. Maybe the support and depth or type of insight she has provided me lately has always been available,but I just didn't ask or seek it before now. IDK... I just wanted to be clear that although my intereactions with my T feels a lot different than when I first started... It seems like she is still being authentic and genunine. I think it is me who is changing and now seeing and accepting what if being offered. I'm seeing similar changes in my friendships too.

(((chaotic)))

I think what you wrote is interesting. Your entire relationship has bloomed and changed but you got what you needed then and you get what you need now too.

I like the idea of the flexibility of this. Sometimes I worry with my current T because I fear that my amount of "need" is more than this new relationship can offer or hold. Yet, I am learning that even though I worry about this, she seems well equipped to meet me where I am right now. And I am in this weird, needful, want to know she's there all the time, trying to establish object permanency stage. Right now I need gentleness and care and I am getting that. I imagine as I heal now and then move to the next thing I might need something different too.


I hadn't ever thought of this sunrise- but now that I see what you have posted I am thinking back to when my DH and I saw my T for couples counseling. She approached him very different than she did me. She would get much more formal and surface with him in our sessions. She would go into much more emotional depth with me in our sessions. I find this facinating because we both really liked doing couples work with her and both of us felt as if she really was attuned to each of us in session. Yet she often approached us differently.

Yes! Go T!

Maybe... we think this way because we haven't quite got the concept that we are not abnormal/weird/deprived/damaged. What we want, others are capable of providing and don't really mind doing it. Some days I think I understand this..but others I just go right back to my old way of thinking, avoiding and depriving.