Wanting to find T's house

hi rainbow,
this has turned into a really interesting post. i don't want to say whether or not i think the "driveby" is a good idea (that's for you to decide), but i did want to add an insight or two.. i know you've mentioned that staying in therapy forever was something you desired. so, perhaps driving by and knowing where she is, is a way to ensure that you will maintain that connection with her - even if you're done with the therapy. just a thought. also, maybe if you tell her about it, she will offer to give you like a rock or some dirt from her house.. i know it might sound weird (and maybe it's not appropriate - i don't know), but maybe she'd be willing to do that as a way to feel connected to her and to help ease the compulsion of wanting to go there.

78- I love the dirt or rock idea! Hmmmm.....

In my opinion, the desire to connect with T is deeply rooted... there is something that was missing for you as a child. It is very important to discuss this with T and be open and honest about it. Also, it is important to remember that thoughts do not equal actions. Allow yourself to go deeply into the emotions and explore those emotions. It will be hard work, but I think it will pay off big time for you.

that's a great idea, 78. Really, anything T could give me that was "hers" would help me feel more connected to her. I have some things she's written down for me, and I kind of cherish those because it's her handwriting, but a rock or something tangible to hold between sessions? That's an excellent idea.

So much to respond to....forgive me if I miss someone. I'm having company and I'm cooking--not giving either that or this thread my full attention, lol.

Some of you still seem to be encouraging me NOT to drive by. Maybe you missed that I saw T's house using Googlemaps so now I'm satisfied, at least about her house. I'm NOT going to drive by. I saw it! But the issue is still there.

WePow, I think you're right. Something was missing as a child but I don't know what. From what I've read, and from the way I feel, it's that early mother/infant bond where the infant is almost merged with the mother. Yours is the only post in this thread that makes me feel those feelings in my stomach, and that longing...Wanting that again, or in the right way.....I'm not thinking about Bt for that anymore; it's so easily transferable to any woman T. My other Ts told me something was missing. So it's not that I don't know. I maybe haven't FELT it with a T--Bt wouldn't let me. Long ago in therapy I wouldn't talk to my Ts about my feelings at all.

((( Rainbow ))) I think you are on the verge of a MAJOR MAJOR CRITICAL life breakthrough!!!! You are feeling this and able to in a very safe way allow yourself to explore the root.

When I first started seeing my T, I knew I had to have a male T. And I knew I would want something from him that he could not give but I did not know how to explain it. I also knew he would somehow be able to give me what I actually DID need but had no way to ask for it. It has taken a ton of work but I was able to trace the root of that NEED down to the abandonment and non-protection of my father to me as an infant. I needed a father who would love me without harming me and who could protect me and teach me how to protect myself rather than watching someone harm me and turning his back on me. uggg!

Every single time I run up into issues with my T, I know that it is somehow related to the deep mystery root that I am exploring. But the more we uncover the dirt and extra stuff surrounding that root, the more clearly we can see what in the heck is going on.

It stinks. It is not fair. And it was criminal for any child to not be given the basic needs a baby has.

But now is the time both you and I can do the hard work to figure out what it was that we were robbed of... and we can explore all of that with the safety of T. I am so proud of you for not running from your pain. You are doing the work that will lead to the light at the end of this tunnel. You will get the payoff you deserve from all of this.

rainbow, i think i'll sidestep the boundary issue as well since you've already gotten so many comments on it. i do think having some token from T might be helpful, but i'm not sure having something connected to her house is a good idea as that is her personal space. jmo.

it is interesting to me that you'd say this about staying in therapy being like your mom never died. i had thought while reading one of your threads recently that maybe you had never really grieved the loss of your mother. i wonder if your struggle to let go of your Ts is really about your struggle to accept the loss of your mom.

Oh! Also I wanted to share something with you. When I talked all this over with my T - about the need for the father who was a true father - I made a choice to allow my inner child to ask T to fill that void while I was going through healing. I talked with T and understood that I am to learn how to parent myself in the long run. But I had that NEED and I had to have it met first from a safe external father before I could learn how to be that "father" internally.

My T graciously accepted the role. My alter who is the 8 yr old female actually made T a card saying "Thank you for being our new daddy." T had tears in his eyes.
I could not have done the level of trauma healing I had to do without my "T daddy" there for me. I had to allow myself to trust him to be what I did not have. THAT was not easy at all! But he did it. Of course you know from my posts here that it has not been all a bed of roses. This week was yet another major bump in the road of trust. But once again he proved to me he was there and had not gone anywhere. (( He actually had a death in his immediate family and I did not know that until last night! )). But I was able to take all the abandonment pain I had while he was emotionally out of pocket - and I was able to use that to explore that pain abandonment root even further.

Hope this helps in some way. More big hugs to you!!!

WePow: thank you for going beyond the "wanting to find T's house" surface statement. I was just thinking "I want to be inside T, not her house." I want to take that statement back, but since PC is a safe place, I won't. Yet......my life was different from yours. I've said this before. I'm not trying to be better than anyone else here. I may have been robbed, but my parents did not rob me. There was no abuse. Don't you believe me? They loved me more than anything. I know and feel that. There are no secrets in my past about that. Yet I feel the way I do. That's what isn't fair!!

bloom, you're the only one who commented on what I said about my Mom and therapy. I wasn't going to post that, since I want to discuss it with my T. But you're right. The puzzle is that something was missing as in infant too, or why would I want to merge with my T? When my Mom was alive, she was there for me, but often I didn't want her to be. She wanted to give me too much advice and be in my life too much, but it was always out of love for me. I hope T can figure it out. She said that's HER job to do.

(((((((( rainbow )))))))))) I totally believe you. And also understand how our lives are different. No two lives are the same and I can't know your heart. But I hoped that maybe by showing you my heart that it can maybe help you find your own keys.

There is something that is hurting you - and for that I send you big big hugs. You are safe for sure here on PC. And it does make sense what you just said - because you said it from your heart. That is the secret... to be totally honest and raw with the truth - even if it is not logical. BIG BIG hugs to you on your journey. It is a sacred dance of life that belongs to you. Thank you for allowing me to witness your dance.

i'm sorry rainbow. maybe i shouldn't have posted what i did. if you'd rather i not offer insight then i won't. just let me know.

http://www.myshrink.com/dance-of-attunement.php

Rainbow - you might like this!

bloom, you misunderstood me. I meant that I felt good that you "heard" me, that you commented on what I said about my Mom. I don't mind you offering your insights. I always want to figure things out, and Kt tells me not to, that I am too much in my head rather than just saying how I feel. She said her job is to figure it out, but I think it's my job too, and if anyone on PC wants to try to, I'm grateful.

WePow: You're very welcome. I also want to thank you for sharing so much of your healing journey on PC. I'm sorry your T had a death in his family, but I just KNEW he wouldn't let you down for no reason. I'm going to check out that site. Thanks.

((((((((((rainbow)))))))))))

I was browsing the boards today and ran into this and didn't know if you had seen it?
http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/g...ality-disorder

I don't know if you relate to ANYTHING on there, but I thought it was worth sharing.

I had another thought after reading the posts about you mother. I do get it. She loved you and you loved her. There wasnt a thing she wouldnt do for you. Your father, too.

Is there a possibility that you became very used to her being so involved in your thoughts and in your life that it seemed you were not a separate person? That you came to expect that level of involvement and T doesnt give you that. Is this way off? Im not really fond of analysing someone. Only you know. I thought Id throw it out there.

I went to the link that treehouse posted. It sounds like Borderline PD too. Or maybe they are closely related?

I agree. Together you will work on figuring it out. The therapeutic alliance. Since your T isn't in your head, she can never really know if she has figured something out about you without your feedback. She can propose ideas to you, really good guesses, but it is up to you to listen to her ideas and tell her if they are on the money or not.

I think it sounds like you're exploring territory with her that you haven't in therapy before. This sounds very hopeful.

I read that link, too, and noticed that there are a lot of common traits between the two. I think that some people with BPD will either be dependent or avoidant, so it's not exactly the same, but similar.

I've noticed in the DSM-V that a number of the PDs have been combined into fewer types (just 5), so maybe these are two that will be re-categorized.

I read the article Tree posted, too. Good article. Echoes, how does this relate to BPD. I was dx with BPD, but I related to everything in this article. Then I was thinking it was my imagination, maybe I'd relate to any article I read. But there were things in there that really described me.

Is DPD part of BPD? I have become less trusting of these diagnosis and categories and Im not convinced of the benefit, but BPD and this DPD does describe me in many ways though I dont have an "anxiety" disorder. I dont think....though I could probably develop one if I read an article describing one.....

I am not sure what your "diagnosis" is nor does it matter, but the symptoms of (a) desperate efforts to avoid being abandoned, whether the abandonment is real or imagined, and (b) feelings of emptiness and (c) lack of boundary respect, begin to fall into the Borderline diagnosis. In fact, this is the behavior we see in Borderlines -- add calling/emailing alot, as well. (Borderlines are notorious for breaking boundaries and that is why many are weary of working with them!)

Borderline personality disorder is a COMBINATION of environmental and biological stressors. So, a child does NOT have to experience abuse to develop BPD. There are numerous studies showing that some children who are biologically prediposed or have the PERSPECTIVE that they have been abandoned are prone to BPD.

For example, a child with colic who cries but yet is not or can not be soothed by mom. The child perceives this as abandonment and can go on to develop BPD.
Or a child who by nature needs alot of soothing, but mom call only give so much, can go on to develop BPD.

Do you act this way with other people -- you friends and family? Because attachment disorders permeate all relationships. (Please look up the ADULT styles of attachment) Usually attachment disorders are not just with a T.

While I agree that IFS is an excellent model of treatment for trauma related disorders, I think DBT would be more useful to you.
You did psychodynamic already with your other T, correct? And clearly you made NO progress on this issue, because you have already started with your new T.
And IFS is similar to psychodynamic, except that it deals with "parts" of the mind and letting all "parts" speak.

The thing I find disturbing is not your desire, but your actions. After your T said you were scaring her, you continued to look at her house, etc. And the only thing you seemed to care about was satisfying your desire....not your relationship with T, because if you did care about that and you knew you scared her, you would have worked much harder to avoid continuing your behavior.

What do you think would happen if next time you went to session and told your T you googled her house and located it and saw it. How do you think that would affect your relationship? Part of the trust is broken and some T's would terminate.

Desire is one thing; behaviors are another.

Sunny- Can you explain further?

ohhh, i'm glad i misunderstood. it seemed to me like you'd figured it out yourself already. but i am so analytical that i can't turn it off a lot of the time. since i'm still feeling like i don't want to push i'll just say if you want to talk about that part more here i'd be interested to listen. if not, that is cool too. i do think it might unlock the T obsession a bit.

rainbow, i think you're doing great work with kt. it seems to be just what you needed. she sounds very caring and compassionate and the emdr and your art therapy that you are going to start seem to be helping get to the deeper stuff and feelings. maybe it's bypassing the old mind with right-brain approaches that is working so well.

No, Borderline Personality Disorder is a CLUSTER B DISORDER.
Dependent Personality Disorder is a CLUSTER C DISORDER.

Big difference. They have difference behaviors and different motives. Sometimes it takes a while to distinguish the disorders within a cluster; for example: Histrionic compared to BPD, but over time one usually stands out.

With Borderlines, they scream of emptiness and ooze of abandonment issues. Furthermore, like Antisocial personality disordered and Narcissistic personality disordered people, they break boundaries for their needs.

But I relate to both with my same behavior and probably the same motives....